Lover/Provider Dichotomy is Over: Three Tier System Now

[RickTheToad]

When it comes to figuring out Men and Women, the sexual marketplace, and how people are coupling and pairing in 2021 - I can't think of anything better than sinking some time into analyzing this important topic. If I didn't spend time thinking about this stuff then I'd probably only have a lifetime notch count of 5 and I might even be married now. What a tragedy that would've been.

Pretty much everything we do in life, as men, is for pvssy. There's no escaping it. Men need to grasp what this all means, and how to manage our desire for pvssy so that it doesn't ruin our lives.

Pus is great, but it's not the be all end all dude. There are more important things in life than just pus.

 

[metalwater]

Men and Women aren't the same tho...

How men and women approach the sexual marketplace is completely different.

Women are not anywhere near as motivated by casual sex and "sport fvcks" as men are. That should be painfully obvious by now to guys who are dealing with lots of women.

Women are motivated to have sex when she's attracted to a guy, and that happens with the guy communicates with her in a certain way i.e. Game.

Women will sometimes just have casual sex with random guys, often when they are intoxicated or on the rebound (or both). But the effects of this are predictable. Women almost always feel slvtty and dirty and not good about themselves after they have these types of experiences. And this is on a fundamental biological level. Casual sex damages women, and all women know it.

It's why women hate being called "slvt" - it hurts them on a deep biological and primal level. On a primal level - each new penis a woman takes lowers her value and makes her a second/third/fourth-hand product.

thats how a man thinks she thinks. she thinks how she thinks.

when you have an ace, you play it when you want to win. I mean she...

 

[BeExcellent]

Advice from the old lady:

It’s kind of silly all this comparing and categorizing of men. And it’s always done (the comparisons) by people who come from a place of lack. They feel they lack something and it’s their way of rationalizing why and how that lack is justified.

Men who are successful with women aren’t making these comparisons. Give that a think.

Also. No single person is going to appeal to everyone. Men who are successful with women understand this and cut bait immediately when a chick isn’t interested. In other word they are ruthlessly efficient. They might proposition a girl to fvck him in the bathroom immediately upon meeting or they might play it more mysterious and cool. It depends on how they read the woman. This is game. It essentially is skill at reading people and knowing how far you can push it in that moment.

They simply act and do as they please in the moment. They aren’t worried about schemes and whether or not they are likable. They aren’t thinking of scripts and strategies in their heads. They are being, not analyzing.

As far as who appeals to who it doesn’t really matter. People choose partners for myriad criteria that are unique to that person. Similarly different people are attractive for different reasons.

But there are some typically applicable generalizations we can mostly apply. Such as:

Men are attracted first to physical beauty/hotness…

Women are attracted first to interestingness. If a man is interesting he will get a lot of play, looks are less important than being interesting.

And this difference messes up lots of guys who don’t grasp this.

Ideally a man meets ALL a woman’s needs. Mine does. When I see him naked I think he looks like Adonis personified, when he is goofy and sweet I think he is adorable; when he’s all about his passions & profession I think how I’m so proud of him. All these things together make me delighted he is my lover, my companion and my partner. I do not see anybody else no matter how good looking, successful or jacked a guy happens to be. I’m into MY guy. End of story.

Be interesting. Think of the Dos Equis beer commercials. Be the most interesting man you can be….

Cheers

 

[mrskinnypantz]

it’s always done (the comparisons) by people who come from a place of lack. They feel they lack something and it’s their way of rationalizing why and how that lack is justified.

Men who are successful with women aren’t making these comparisons. Give that a think.

This is very true
Because a man who is successful ,has no need to compare or rationalize how and why they lack

 

[Francis]

Women are not visual like men are. It's all about their emotions and feelings. Men can't comprehend this, which is why most men are failing. Men are in a mad panic because none of their strategies work reliably. So men work even harder to achieve even more of the things that women don't really care about as much as "feelz" - money, fitness, status etc.

Have you ever associated with guys who were considered very good looking? I understand we all have our own experiences, but what you say does not match the reality I've personally experienced or witnessed from other successful men. Women always chose the best looking guys, and they are very visual. In fact, every compliment I've ever gotten from women was based on looks. And this is no nonsense, straight to the point. The typical interaction started with a stare (from them), and when we hung around, they were super happy and giggly, touching, complimenting, and the whole nine. There was never anything about "feels". They had a crush or crushes, just like we do. Nothing had to be done other than be around them and talk normally. No wit or cleverness. And guys who had "game" and were more experienced and confident did not beat me when it came to women, even when I was a huge chump and nice guy. And believe me they tried, even some of my own fake friends at the time. They'd say that I was inexperienced to make me look bad, but it didn't matter. On top of that I was extremely shy for a long time. I've also had women specifically tell me (usually after asking) that they chose me over another guy because they thought I was better looking.

Likewise for other good looking guys. All they had to do was leave the house and women would stare and howl. They'd smile and cheer up just by being around them. It is no different from what men do to women, contrary to what you've stated. Literally all women talk about and obsess over is hot guys. If you are attractive women will look at you a lot. And they check you out just like men do to women. This is without knowing them.

Women get crushes and they lust after attractive men. How in the world are you going to say that they aren't visual?

**None of this is to brag. These are personal experiences which contradict what you say, to make a point, is all.

Men and Women aren't the same tho...

How men and women approach the sexual marketplace is completely different.

Women are not anywhere near as motivated by casual sex and "sport fvcks" as men are. That should be painfully obvious by now to guys who are dealing with lots of women.

Women are motivated to have sex when she's attracted to a guy, and that happens with the guy communicates with her in a certain way i.e. Game.

Women will sometimes just have casual sex with random guys, often when they are intoxicated or on the rebound (or both). But the effects of this are predictable. Women almost always feel slvtty and dirty and not good about themselves after they have these types of experiences. And this is on a fundamental biological level. Casual sex damages women, and all women know it.

This also doesn't match what I've experienced. They wanted the hottest guys to show off and have sex with, and they were real direct about wanting sex as well. At least as direct as women can be. Of course they would try to make the guy pursue it, but it was definitely their idea. 9 times out of 10, they just wanted to make sure the guy was OK with it first (and willing to take the blame). They didn't have to be drunk or on the rebound to initiate sex. And they were quite detailed about the things they wanted to do.

Women don't feel damaged about having casual sex, from what I've seen. They just don't want to be perceived as slutty by either the guy or anyone else who might find out. That's why they say things like "I'm not *****, I don't usually do this, I don't want you to think I'm a *****". If you've had sex with a girl not long after you met her, this is the kind of stuff they say. They still proceed on with no qualms. In fact, it usually doesn't matter if she's dating or married to someone either. They always justify it and blame the guy or play dumb. I've been there when they did it, being part of the same social group at times.

To clarify: I was very passive, insecure, naive, and so on while at my peak and missed a lot of opportunities. But the signs and offers were clear. But other guys I knew very well had a lot of casual sex with many women. And these girls were obsessed with these guys because they were hot, sexy, and/or gorgeous. That's it. They'd hook up with them incredibly fast.

I should also point out that all these guys were relatively short (under 6 feet, some down to 5'7-5'8) and not rich. A couple of them could barely hold down a job, sold and smoked weed for a living, and bummed at whoever's place they could find. And a couple more fumbled like crazy when it came to communication and were pretty much douchebags. Some were for the most part loners and didn't get involved in social crowds. None of it mattered because they were "hot".

The best looking guys were also the ones who had the best looking women. League for league. The gorgeous guys were dating & hooking up (and cheating on) gorgeous women. Average guys with "game" were getting average women. I've seen it right in front of my eyes, being part of various circles and having friendships with others.

There were a couple other posts you made that I left out, but I'm just replying to the general point being made about girls not being visual and so on. Nothing personal intended.

 

[oc16]

I don't know, here in New Jersey.....

I see plenty of men below 6 feet and average looking men pulling above their weight in looks and I've seen some good looking guys with women who weren't that great looking.

I was at a white trashy bar tonight and it was Halloween night. I didn't dress up, but I was getting a decent amount of looks because most of the competition was shorter, fatter and uglier than me.

I got some late 40s, 50 something woman's number.

Had good eye contact with a much younger 7.5 across the bar, but her two friends were not attractive at all. I did talk to the 7.5 later in the night, but she didn't seem interested.

 

[Francis]

I didn't say girls weren't visual. I'm saying guys are far more visual than girls are.

Girls take into account things like confidence and body language and vibe etc.

Ok, thanks for clarifying. I was getting a much different vibe from some of the posts. And you are right about that. None of the guys were a physical mess by any means and took very care of themselves when it came to appearance. They were also all jerks, but hid it well in the beginning until they got what they wanted. Then it was basically "Why are you still here / What do you want?" It's possible the girls were pining over them after that, but they had so many that they didn't care. And the bragged about their exploits constantly.

There is no doubt in my mind that the girls knew what they were getting themselves into. They went straight for the hottest guys and there is no possible way that all these girls were single. I know for a fact that they weren't when I started attracting them. They always had an excuse to justify it, by complaining about how horrible the guy they're currently with is (and at times I knew these guys and they weren't -- other men knew it too, and would say how horrible the women are), claiming to be on the rocks, etc. At the time I didn't realize it, being overly sympathetic and naive, but the double standards and level of hypocrisy was pretty insane. And the entitlement. These girls would throw major hissy fits, try to destroy my reputation, and complain non-stop because the person they were trying to cheat with and perhaps monkey branch to, because they were deemed better and more exciting, wasn't going for it. Loyalty made no difference and even seemed to turn them off. They wanted the unavailable, "exciting" the guy they didn't know or couldn't get (as long as he was hot, of course).

The guy they were currently seeing and didn't have interest in and were using for whatever reason (to say they had someone, be on the same level as their peers, because no one else wanted them, the guy had a lot of money... take your pick) really didn't matter to them at all. Neither did the guys they were pining after. It was all about ego and getting the perceived "prize". Some of the guys were just horrible and over-exaggerated their greatness, but it still didn't matter. I never once heard the women mention anything about a guy's character or personality. Many of them said things like "I hope to marry a rich guy" and would mention all the guys they used for whatever purpose: "this guy helps with my computer problems, that guy does maintenance", etc, like it was no big deal. I can almost guarantee that they were labeled appropriately in their phones. And they all had "lots of guy friends".

But to be fair, a lot of the things people say about good looking women being unfair and narcissistic also applies to good looking men. Just like a lot of people are only as nice as they have to be, and will do whatever they can get away with (be a chump and see how fast you get used & bullied), they are only as faithful as their options.

 

[DEEZEDBRAH]

The last several times I've been out, I'm seeing something interesting.

There are quite a few bro's I've met who've got their act together: good job, good health, standard or even well above average good looking guys. In theory, these guys should fit easily into the "lover" or "alpha" category.

What's odd is that they're getting a lukewarm reception from the ladies. They're certainly not getting rejected outright or treated like pariahs, but the women are showing at best moderate interest and it's clear that many of these guys are getting friendzoned.

Obviously, guys who are not fit and not good looking are still getting the cold shoulder, and the 'reception' borders on overt hostility.

Meanwhile, there are guys who are monopolizing all of the attention of the women and when these guys show up, the guys just a step below are being completely abandoned.

This signals to me that there is a 3 tier system now:

1. top dogs with monopoly access

2. run of the mill good looking guys good looking women will settle for, but not be thrilled to be with. In the past, women might be very happy to be with guys in this tier, but no longer.

3. guys who struggle because of their looks and have to spend significantly more time to find a girlfriend or settle for average/below average looking girls.

I won't say this is alarming but some predicted that after a year to year and a half of limited socializing and dating options, women in theory should be LESS selective and more eager to date in general, but I'm seeing women become even MORE selective.

I wrote about reverse hypergamy as well, and I think this happens when 'top dogs' aren't available in the local area so women are forced into relationships with providers.

Tbh It has always been this way. It's just overt and there's more data.

Again, enjoy the decline. Pillage WHAT YOU CAN! Go for the W. Sniper approach. Pull but be indifferent. It's not your problem.

The crash is coming. It's similar with money printing. There is going to come payment time. I'm not going to be there to bail out the village skank.

Play whatever hand you are dealt and to the best of your ability. Then watch the world burn.

 

[joesbigship]

Have you ever associated with guys who were considered very good looking? I understand we all have our own experiences, but what you say does not match the reality I've personally experienced or witnessed from other successful men. Women always chose the best looking guys, and they are very visual.

Likewise for other good looking guys. All they had to do was leave the house and women would stare and howl. They'd smile and cheer up just by being around them. It is no different from what men do to women, contrary to what you've stated. Literally all women talk about and obsess over is hot guys. If you are attractive women will look at you a lot. And they check you out just like men do to women. This is without knowing them.

Women get crushes and they lust after attractive men. How in the world are you going to say that they aren't visual?

**None of this is to brag. These are personal experiences which contradict what you say, to make a point, is all.

I should also point out that all these guys were relatively short (under 6 feet, some down to 5'7-5'8) and not rich. A couple of them could barely hold down a job, sold and smoked weed for a living, and bummed at whoever's place they could find. And a couple more fumbled like crazy when it came to communication and were pretty much douchebags. Some were for the most part loners and didn't get involved in social crowds. None of it mattered because they were "hot".

No offense to Pan but he clearly doesn't get out much. He keeps copy pasting the same RSD and DailyStormer memes over and over again: "just approach bro" or "white women are my jam" over and over again. Oddly enough it's the white supremacists who are the most likely to reject white women because of the very problems discussed on this forum over and over again.

White supremacists are deeply fascinated with anime and east asian cultures in general because in many if not most respects they embody all of the traits that western cultures formerly had: cleanliness, safety, intelligence, traditional women, homogeneity, closed borders, etc.

To a large extent white supremacists are just larping and underneath the posturing are actually east asian supremacists in beliefs and practices.

Notice how he never has any real world personal interactions or problems to ever discuss, it's all just game theory and pseudo white supremacist posts.

 

[Bigpapa]

And there's a 4th Tier - guys with Game who realise that women don't care about looks nearly as much as men do. This tier of men bangs the most.

Women care about "feelz" and your ability to manipulate their emotions. Simple as.

All these bros are getting treated as disposable (good looking, good job etc) because they ARE disposable. Women don't really care about good looking/good job - that's boring bluepill stuff. Women care about how you make her feel.

sorry man , but it is bullsh1t what you are saying . No offense

game as I have field tested over and over , the success rate is mainly about 2 things ( looks and location )

yes , women do care about looks . Mainly they care about the face shape , good hygiene and how you dress . And ofc not being too short , too fat or too skinny

the people who actually have tangible results , and not just getting lucky let”s say are those stated above

this is what good looking guys say in order to feel important . “ bro , I have game, thst is why I get laid “ and then he will see that whatever works for him will not work for someone less gifted

 

[Barrister]

I'm not saying looks aren't important. They are.

However, Game is the most important thing from my experience in life. I've seen it over and over again - ugly guys with game beating good looking guys without game. It's taught me that how you communicate with women, and how you make them feel, is the crucial element to getting laid.

I never bullsh1t. You know that.

SS has become a nesting ground for guys to just come and complain about not having looks, money, etc. It’s a coping mechanism for not getting pvssy. Takes all of the responsibility off of them. Inevitably, someone will respond to me by requesting my height, race, etc. and say my opinion is wrong. It’s like clockwork anymore.

 

[Velasco]

To clarify: I was very passive, insecure, naive, and so on while at my peak and missed a lot of opportunities. But the signs and offers were clear. But other guys I knew very well had a lot of casual sex with many women. And these girls were obsessed with these guys because they were hot, sexy, and/or gorgeous. That's it. They'd hook up with them incredibly fast.

I should also point out that all these guys were relatively short (under 6 feet, some down to 5'7-5'8) and not rich. A couple of them could barely hold down a job, sold and smoked weed for a living, and bummed at whoever's place they could find. And a couple more fumbled like crazy when it came to communication and were pretty much douchebags. Some were for the most part loners and didn't get involved in social crowds. None of it mattered because they were "hot".

Here you talk about the difference without knowing it.


these hot guys got laid like crazy while you did not because they were bad boys while you were not. Why you are on a game forum while they are not.

Back in high school I did get looks. But I was also insecure, and missed LOTS of opportunities. I was satisfied with girls looking at me a certain way. Calling me "sexy", "papi chulo", "handsome" And the validation that X girl liked me FIRST. And knowing they liked me over someone who was proactively trying to get at them but were less good looking/short but outgoing and social. Didn't matter because I wasn't fvcking any of these girls anyway. After they realized I was actually an unsocial sperg, they lost interest. It's why I know pan puts a huge emphasize (while acknowledging that looks matter) on game (playing the game and trying to make things happen so that you win at this game. Before pua, I did not know how to play the game or even trying to win the game (I was playing some retarded version of it where the prize was validation instead of sex). Because that is what he lacked during his youth.

 

[Bigpapa]

I'm not saying looks aren't important. They are.

However, Game is the most important thing from my experience in life. I've seen it over and over again - ugly guys with game beating good looking guys without game. It's taught me that how you communicate with women, and how you make them feel, is the crucial element to getting laid.

I never bullsh1t. You know that.

yeah , it is important , but the prerequisites have to be in place in order to get the pull , which basically means having strong fundamentals ( naturally or by improving what you can improve )

this is something that the game preachers always omit

again , if having game means to be socially suave and smart , then yeah . Someone who is an idiot socially will loose most of the times to someone that it is socially intelligent ,

but again , having someone who is stupid socially and someone who is ultra smart , are Very low densed . Most of the people are somewhere around the middle spectrum of social smartness

 

[Bigpapa]

SS has become a nesting ground for guys to just come and complain about not having looks, money, etc. It’s a coping mechanism for not getting pvssy. Takes all of the responsibility off of them. Inevitably, someone will respond to me by requesting my height, race, etc. and say my opinion is wrong. It’s like clockwork anymore.

I am a good looking dude . I started reading this game and pua vomit mainly to improve the quality ,thinking thst this guys know something that I do not

basic framework to get laid

she is attracted ( somewhere from low mild interest to very high ) -> you met her at a good time - > you start making things happen ( this is what people refer as game) -> magic happens

also food for your brain , it is way easier to sleep with a girl that is in an ltr or early post brakeup , than it is to sleep with a girl that is single for a while ( assuming she is not a hoe )

why do you think it is the case ?

 

[Francis]

Here you talk about the difference without knowing it.


these hot guys got laid like crazy while you did not because they were bad boys while you were not. Why you are on a game forum while they are not.

Back in high school I did get looks. But I was also insecure, and missed LOTS of opportunities. I was satisfied with girls looking at me a certain way. Calling me "sexy", "papi chulo", "handsome" And the validation that X girl liked me FIRST. And knowing they liked me over someone who was proactively trying to get at them but were less good looking/short but outgoing and social. Didn't matter because I wasn't fvcking any of these girls anyway. After they realized I was actually an unsocial sperg, they lost interest. It's why I know pan puts a huge emphasize (while acknowledging that looks matter) on game (playing the game and trying to make things happen so that you win at this game. Before pua, I did not know how to play the game or even trying to win the game (I was playing some retarded version of it where the prize was validation instead of sex). Because that is what he lacked during his youth.

Lmao, I was the same way. Really didn't know what was going in the world and was just attention whoring for the most part. Sex was definitely viewed as some holy grail, when it really wasn't a big deal to anyone but myself at the time. The girls didn't care as long as they weren't viewed as sluts and could throw the blame on the guy.

But I disagree on the first part to a degree. I had the look of a bad boy / player and attracted a lot of women (largely based on what I seen those guys look like in the past), but didn't know what to do from there. Even as they were making most of the moves, I was like a deer in headlights. Very inexperienced and uncertain. A lot of it was self-sabotage based on fear & insecurity.

And I'm only here to share stories and experiences, maybe help people not make the same mistakes... I'm not here seeking advice.

 

[Willie Naylor]

SS has become a nesting ground for guys to just come and complain about not having looks, money, etc. It’s a coping mechanism for not getting pvssy. Takes all of the responsibility off of them. Inevitably, someone will respond to me by requesting my height, race, etc. and say my opinion is wrong. It’s like clockwork anymore.

This, or they just talk about theory, and not about anything that actually happened to them with a girl.

It's Fruity Pebbles and video games for most of the 'guys' here.

 

[Bigpapa]

This, or they just talk about theory, and not about anything that actually happened to them with a girl.

It's Fruity Pebbles and video games for most of the 'guys' here.

i would not go to such an extreme .

It is more what guys do in order to give credit more to them ( game is considered a skill , and till an extent it really is ) , rather than to give credit to things that that someone was born with or had an advantage .

same thing with money , most of guys who are reach , had a better start in life than those who are not rich or had someone to guide them . Ofcoursr They will always say that it is because they are smart or whatever the reason on why they are rich , but in reality they just had from the get go a better start .

As a simple example , getting aN university degree from a top institution in most cases will mean that you will have at least a good career .The problem is that to get there you either have to be ultra smart and commited to get there( very rarely the case ) , to have money to go there( universities are very expensive , even when excluding tuitions ) , and also to have really good references ( this mainly due to having well connected parents )

 

[Willie Naylor]

i would not go to such an extreme .

It is more what guys do in order to give credit more to them ( game is considered a skill , and till an extent it really is ) , rather than to give credit to things that that someone was born with or had an advantage .

same thing with money , most of guys who are reach , had a better start in life than those who are not rich or had someone to guide them . Ofcoursr They will always say that it is because they are smart or whatever the reason on why they are rich , but in reality they just had from the get go a better start .

As a simple example , getting aN university degree from a top institution in most cases will mean that you will have at least a good career .The problem is that to get there you either have to be ultra smart and commited to get there( very rarely the case ) , to have money to go there( universities are very expensive , even when excluding tuitions ) , and also to have really good references ( this mainly due to having well connected parents )

This. Right here.

Pseudo-intellectual pontificating about things.

Blah blah blah

 

[Barrister]

I am a good looking dude . I started reading this game and pua vomit mainly to improve the quality ,thinking thst this guys know something that I do not

basic framework to get laid

she is attracted ( somewhere from low mild interest to very high ) -> you met her at a good time - > you start making things happen ( this is what people refer as game) -> magic happens

also food for your brain , it is way easier to sleep with a girl that is in an ltr or early post brakeup , than it is to sleep with a girl that is single for a while ( assuming she is not a hoe )

why do you think it is the case ?

I am also a good looking guy who got good looking women in my late teens/early 20s mostly because I was good looking and dressed well. I can say I had close to zero game until the latter part of college. Once I did I got way more women. I am now more socially adept in my 30s than I ever was in my 20s. I also attract women way easier than I ever did before. I’ve also learned a lot here at SS thanks to some of the old guns here.

To the original point - no one is saying looks don’t matter. They do. But this fatalistic attitude that some guys have on this forum because of their looks or race is pathetic (and I am not talking about you).

 

[mjb3617]

yeah , it is important , but the prerequisites have to be in place in order to get the pull , which basically means having strong fundamentals ( naturally or by improving what you can improve )

this is something that the game preachers always omit

again , if having game means to be socially suave and smart , then yeah . Someone who is an idiot socially will loose most of the times to someone that it is socially intelligent ,

but again , having someone who is stupid socially and someone who is ultra smart , are Very low densed . Most of the people are somewhere around the middle spectrum of social smartness

I'll add that a lot of people don't won't to or can't do the deep work required to get better at whatever is holding them back.

I know I'm lacking in certain areas. One of the reasons why I'm here. Learn from others who have made the same mistakes, endured and overcome their struggles, and be successful with women.

Everyday I improve. Some days a lot, other days I have setbacks. But I keep it moving.

This forum has a lot of good content, but sometimes descends into needless bickering and throwing shade when we need to bring each other up.

That's my 2 cents. Take it for what it's worth.