Horse dewormer flying off the shelves - LMAO

2Rocky

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You still don't realize people think you are ridiculous and regard you as an annoying pest. Fun to toy with and manipulate much like a yapping dog. In fact you remind me of a yapping chihuahua who thinks he scared off the mailman every day he delivers the mail.

You've been fun to play with but I don't think we should see each other or speak to one another anymore.
 

FlexpertHamilton

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You still don't realize people think you are ridiculous and regard you as an annoying pest. Fun to toy with and manipulate much like a yapping dog. In fact you remind me of a yapping chihuahua who thinks he scared off the mailman every day he delivers the mail.

You've been fun to play with but I don't think we should see each other or speak to one another anymore.
Man you sure hate Ivermectin don't you? The propaganda really got to you.
 

Pierce Manhammer

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I've become interested in the subject of off-label use of Ivermectin to treat COVID-19, given all the press it's being given. I've been looking for peer-reviewed medical articles on the subject. (I have a medical background/training and have dosed Ivermectin in the past for parasites).

What I found is interesting so I thought I'd share it.


It would seem that Ivermectin does in fact block the mechanisms of viral replication in many pathogens:
"Ivermectin has exhibited antiviral activity against a wide range of RNA and some DNA viruses, for example, Zika, dengue, yellow fever, and others." ref: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41429-020-0336-z

The issue is that the concentrations of ivermectin needed to have the desired effect in-vitro (in glass meaning glass labware - not in a living organism) is high enough that it would cause issues in living tissue.

In any case, based on my current understanding of this, while there is some evidence and truth about its ability to stop the viral activity, the doses needed to do so are high enough to potentially be hepato-toxic (bad for your liver) and cause many other issues. So its usefulness, in this case, is questionable at best. Bleach also kills the virus, would you drink it? Just a thought.

there have been a number of retractions too:
  1. Ivermectin in COVID-19 Related Critical Illness,” posted in April 2020 on SSRN, retracted sometime in May. Reporting from The Scientist here.
  2. “Usefulness of Ivermectin in COVID-19 Illness,” posted on April 19, 2020, on SSRN, retracted sometime thereafter.

I'd be interested in an honest discussion about this, as many of you are VERY smart dudes, please post your interpretation of whatever links you reply with if you do, spamming with reams of non-referenced, non-peer-reviewed nonsense is not useful for the discussion no matter how convinced you are as to the bonafides of the authors.

Bring it.
 

BackInTheGame78

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I've become interested in the subject of off-label use of Ivermectin to treat COVID-19, given all the press it's being given. I've been looking for peer-reviewed medical articles on the subject. (I have a medical background/training and have dosed Ivermectin in the past for parasites).

What I found is interesting so I thought I'd share it.


It would seem that Ivermectin does in fact block the mechanisms of viral replication in many pathogens:
"Ivermectin has exhibited antiviral activity against a wide range of RNA and some DNA viruses, for example, Zika, dengue, yellow fever, and others." ref: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41429-020-0336-z

The issue is that the concentrations of ivermectin needed to have the desired effect in-vitro (in glass meaning glass labware - not in a living organism) is high enough that it would cause issues in living tissue.

In any case, based on my current understanding of this, while there is some evidence and truth about its ability to stop the viral activity, the doses needed to do so are high enough to potentially be hepato-toxic (bad for your liver) and cause many other issues. So its usefulness, in this case, is questionable at best. Bleach also kills the virus, would you drink it? Just a thought.

there have been a number of retractions too:
  1. Ivermectin in COVID-19 Related Critical Illness,” posted in April 2020 on SSRN, retracted sometime in May. Reporting from The Scientist here.
  2. “Usefulness of Ivermectin in COVID-19 Illness,” posted on April 19, 2020, on SSRN, retracted sometime thereafter.

I'd be interested in an honest discussion about this, as many of you are VERY smart dudes, please post your interpretation of whatever links you reply with if you do, spamming with reams of non-referenced, non-peer-reviewed nonsense is not useful for the discussion no matter how convinced you are as to the bonafides of the authors.

Bring it.
As always the dosage determines the toxicity with pretty much anything. If taken in high enough doses pretty much everything in the world is toxic...even water. People die from drinking too much water due to diluting the sodium/potassium in their bloodstream which is required for the heart to operate properly.
 

Pierce Manhammer

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Some things are obvious, but need to be stated for safety reasons. Still hoping for replies with data.

As always the dosage determines the toxicity with pretty much anything. If taken in high enough doses pretty much everything in the world is toxic...even water. People die from drinking too much water due to diluting the sodium/potassium in their bloodstream which is required for the heart to operate properly.
 

FlexpertHamilton

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I've become interested in the subject of off-label use of Ivermectin to treat COVID-19, given all the press it's being given. I've been looking for peer-reviewed medical articles on the subject. (I have a medical background/training and have dosed Ivermectin in the past for parasites).

What I found is interesting so I thought I'd share it.


It would seem that Ivermectin does in fact block the mechanisms of viral replication in many pathogens:
"Ivermectin has exhibited antiviral activity against a wide range of RNA and some DNA viruses, for example, Zika, dengue, yellow fever, and others." ref: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41429-020-0336-z

The issue is that the concentrations of ivermectin needed to have the desired effect in-vitro (in glass meaning glass labware - not in a living organism) is high enough that it would cause issues in living tissue.

In any case, based on my current understanding of this, while there is some evidence and truth about its ability to stop the viral activity, the doses needed to do so are high enough to potentially be hepato-toxic (bad for your liver) and cause many other issues. So its usefulness, in this case, is questionable at best. Bleach also kills the virus, would you drink it? Just a thought.

there have been a number of retractions too:
  1. Ivermectin in COVID-19 Related Critical Illness,” posted in April 2020 on SSRN, retracted sometime in May. Reporting from The Scientist here.
  2. “Usefulness of Ivermectin in COVID-19 Illness,” posted on April 19, 2020, on SSRN, retracted sometime thereafter.

I'd be interested in an honest discussion about this, as many of you are VERY smart dudes, please post your interpretation of whatever links you reply with if you do, spamming with reams of non-referenced, non-peer-reviewed nonsense is not useful for the discussion no matter how convinced you are as to the bonafides of the authors.

Bring it.
I was spamming links merely to show that there is a growing body of evidence and research that show positive results. I think it's very promising and urgently needs more research.

I wasn't suggesting anyone take it nor was I suggesting it is in fact a perfect cure for Covid, because I have no idea. However, I think there needs to be a real debate about its potential... yet all medical/govt authority figures immediately shut down even discussing it, which is outright criminal.

The study you linked was done by Dr Pierre Kory and colleagues. He has talked about Ivermectin use in Mexico and how it was under-dosed at only 6mg, I believe, yet still virtually eradicated Covid from the population. As you probably know, in-vitro doses (especially in animals), do not necessarily translate into actual mg/kg human doses.

If you have the time, I'd watch Dr Pierre Kory's interview on Joe Rogan with Bret Weinstein, it was released in July I think. But Dr Kory has been in many other lectures, podcasts, and interviews as well if you don't want to sit through a 3 hr Joe Rogan podcast (even though Joe barely talks). Dr Kory goes over many of the studies that have been published as well as the history of Ivermectin use and its usage in populations in treating Covid.
 
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Pierce Manhammer

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Its actually used in vetmed extensively for deworming. Its labeled as such, saying its anti-viral properties make it an anti-viral is dishonest.

Here's one of the people who many of you think is dishonest and getting rich and is self-serving and stupid. Enjoy:

 

BackInTheGame78

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And they are having so many cases of overdosing on this in Oklahoma hospitals that gunshot victims are having to wait to be treated.

Can't make this stuff up. Low IQ people purging themselves.
 

Black Widow Void

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Nice work FlexpertHamilton

So far, from the pro-vax crowd, .... we've learned
1 if it's on Google, then it has to be credible and true.
2. It's acceptable to post opposing statements and when asked for sources, it's okay to dodge the questions and sling insults.
3. It's okay to oppose because it's not "FDA" approved, but opposing a vaccine for a year because it wasn't FDA approved is 'wrong.'
4 (it gets worse) apparently forum members are now using Tik Tok as a way to validate their claims.

If the above four mentalities are an example of vaccine side effects, then it further validates my reasoning for avoidance.
 

Billtx49

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Interesting facts on the usual FDA average drug approval time. I assume it applies to both a vaccine and Ivermectin, however recent vaccines had government red tape cut to shorten development and approval time. They don’t seem to feel so inclined regarding the dewormer:

Tldnr - The United States has arguably the most stringent regulations regarding approval of medical drugs and devices in the world. The average time from FDA application to approval of drugs is 12 years, and the estimated average cost of taking a new drug from concept to market exceeds $1 billion.

 

Pierce Manhammer

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Nice work FlexpertHamilton

4 (it gets worse) apparently forum members are now using Tik Tok as a way to validate their claims.

If the above four mentalities are an example of vaccine side effects, then it further validates my reasoning for avoidance.
I'll give you a pass on the rest of the drivel you posted, but claiming the validity of a testimonial because of the platform its on? dude that's weak AF. His video is on twitter, insta and youtube. Oh wait its not on Patreon or Infowars so it cannot be true?
 

Pierce Manhammer

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As a point of interest in medicine, if it is FDA approved, usually, off-label use is common. For example, Clomid, approved for use in stimulating ovulation is now also used to raise testosterone in hypogonadal males. So while Ivermectin has traditionally been used as a dewormer in veterinary medicine and human medicine, if it has anti-viral properties which have been claimed by at least one researcher it may work as interferon. Time will tell. For now, it's too much fun making horse jokes.

Interesting facts on the usual FDA average drug approval time. I assume it applies to both a vaccine and Ivermectin, however recent vaccines had government red tape cut to shorten development and approval time. They don’t seem to feel so inclined regarding the dewormer:

Tldnr - The United States has arguably the most stringent regulations regarding approval of medical drugs and devices in the world. The average time from FDA application to approval of drugs is 12 years, and the estimated average cost of taking a new drug from concept to market exceeds $1 billion.

 

Igetit!

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So far, from the pro-vax crowd, .... we've learned
1 if it's on Google, then it has to be credible and true.
Well,I'm not "pro" vax or anti-vax. I say if you want it,get it,if you don't,then don't. I'm not a doctor,so I'm not qualified to give people medical advice......ESPECIALLY when I don't know the medical background of the people asking for it. It does seem to be effective,though....even if for a short period of time,hence,the talk of boosters starting later on this month. In Israel,you have to have 3 shots to be considered "fully vaccinated".



And if that wasn't enough,Israel's "virus czar" told people to start getting ready for an eventual 4th dose.


So if 2 doses lost their effectiveness after 6 months,I'm guessing one dose will last for 3. Guess we can see where this is going.


That's the info and the sources. Do with it as you will.


2. It's acceptable to post opposing statements and when asked for sources, it's okay to dodge the questions and sling insults.
Well,dodging......can't say too much to that. Insults are against the rules.


3. It's okay to oppose because it's not "FDA" approved, but opposing a vaccine for a year because it wasn't FDA approved is 'wrong.'
It STILL isn't "FDA approved".

I went and did A LOT of digging on this. The FDA pulled a fast one.....basically deceiving people.

The pfizer vaccine IS NOT approved. They approved Comirnaty.

What's the difference between the two? Well,far as the medicine,the actual medication in the bottles,nothing....they're one and the same.

The difference,is the LEGALITY. The pfizer vaccine has a liability shield,meaning,you can't sue if you take it and are injured. With "Comirnaty",you CAN SUE if injured by it.
Comirnaty is licensed.
The Pfizer vaccine IS NOT.



The FDA did a "slight of hand". This way,the vaccine "got approved"....while still keeping the liability shield intact.


I'm sure you know of many places where you can go and get the vaccine? Go there and ask for Comirnaty. That's the one that got approved. Go to a vaccination site and ask for the FDA-approved Comirnaty.....and ask to SEE THE VILE with the label "Comirnaty" on it.

You'll likely be first met with a look of stun and confusion. Then they'll tell you they don't have any,but they have plenty of vaccine available if you want a dose. That's because it's not yet available here in the U.S. So they approved what you can't yet get,but have millions of doses of pfizer vaccine available,if you'd like to be vaccinated.

That's the info and the source. Do with it as you will.


4 (it gets worse) apparently forum members are now using Tik Tok as a way to validate their claims.
Well,people use Twitter,Youtube,Rumble and other sites as well. I don't think it matters where you get the info,long as it's true.


If the above four mentalities are an example of vaccine side effects, then it further validates my reasoning for avoidance.
Hey.....you get no judgment from me. I got a roof to keep over my head,car to keep gas in,and a table to keep food on.......kinda too preoccupied with my OWN LIFE to worry about whether some dude on the internet took the shot or not. MY HEALTH isn't YOUR responsibility anyway....it's MINE. The whole notion of "Get vaccinated to protect others" is bogus anyway.....at least,according to the CDC. They said BOTH vaccinated and unvaccinated can spread delta EQUALLY.


That's why they came out and reversed themselves from when they initially told vaccinated people they could stop wearing masks:


Then a month and a half to two months later,told vaccinated people to START BACK wearing masks:



So,if EVERYONE can spread it......vaccinated or not......then the notion of "getting vaccinated to protect others" is FALSE. If "others" need to be protected,then THEY NEED to get vaccinated for themselves. Me getting the shot PROTECTS ME.....not you. If you want protection,you need to get your OWN SHOT.........not rely on others to get theirs. Even if "John Doe" getting vaccinated did somehow protect me,I wouldn't put the responsibility of MY health onto him anyway.


Anyway,you wanted sources...you got 'em.
 

Zimbabwe

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Where did you get the above information? I don't see a single source for any of those claims.

The fact that it references the FDA multiple times is laughable, the FDA is the most incompetent medical authority in history.
Ivermectin, along with tocilizumab, HCQ and a few other immunesuppressive drugs were promoted for possible COVID treatments on internet early on

Roche reported their phase III trial in a press release last year : No benefit.

https://www.roche.com/investors/updates/inv-update-2020-07-29.htm

Multiple, rigorous studies undertaken since have repeatedly found the drug to be of no benefit in treating people with Covid-19/Wuhan Flu and one of the most promising papers supporting the drug’s use was withdrawn over concerns of data manipulation. Neither its manufacturer nor leading medical retailers endorse its use for Covid-19.


 

Black Widow Void

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Igetit!, it's nice to see some objective comments among this forum. For the record, I don't support mandates, but I do believe that each person should have the freedom to vax or not to vax. I also believe that a lot (but not all) of the pro-vax'ers on this forum are becoming a liability to their cause. The same also applies to some of the forum member anti-vax'ers too.

And.. well, yeah.... guilty as charged (in retrospect, I can see that some of my previous remarks actually were a bit flippant).

I appreciate that you provided sources toward your claims.
 

f(x)

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Why do unvaccinated people go to the hospital after catching covid?
 
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