She demands a 5th date out to dinner prior to banging

[TheNewStyle123]

Do you guys think there is no point in texting this girl again then? It sounds like even if I reach out and offer to take her to dinner I will look pathetic, lose frame, and likely will not have sex.

 

[EyeBRollin]

Men will never find out if that's possible, because like @Pan87 said, they've all been conditioned to believe that sex can't happen until you've spent at least $50 on her first.

This is just cheap. The OP has already spent more on groceries and labor than the cost of a date. Just so he wouldn’t have to take her out on a date.

 

[EyeBRollin]

Do you guys think there is no point in texting this girl again then? It sounds like even if I reach out and offer to take her to dinner I will look pathetic, lose frame, and likely will not have sex.

This girl still has interest, and has told you what she wants very clearly.

Two choices:
1) If you want an LTR with her, take her out on a date. She seems like a decent gal and you have already invested quite a bit in this already.

2) If you don’t see her as LTR and just want to smash, delete her number and move on. You blew the pump and dump chance.

 

[ThisIsSparta]

No, it is what the market decides. Until the vast majority of women start handing out ass for free with no dates required, these dating conventions won’t change.

"The market"..... there is a market for simps, a market for beta-providers and a market for the 20%.
The investment/output ratio isnt the same in these markets.

They had 4 legit dates.

A "date" doesnt qualify as a "date" due to the amount of money spent or through distance from his place.

That said, cooking for the chick at your place doesnt mean its cheaper then paying for her meal+drinks in a restaurant.

I have taken enough women on 1st and 2nd dates to dinner. I dont care about the 30 bucks.
This is about principles and inviting her to a mans frame.

If a woman doesnt value a man for preparing her a steak of some sort, a couple bottles of fine wine together with a good time at his place, she shall be sent on the highway.

 

[EyeBRollin]

They had 4 legit dates.

A "date" doesnt qualify as a "date" due to the amount of money spent or through distance from his place.

They have not had any “legit” dates. Cooking at the house is not considered a “legit” date. They want to be taken out in public. It doesn’t have to be dinner; activities such as bowling or miniature golf suffice.

 

[EyeBRollin]

"cheap" is a word that women use. You are definitely a female troll.

You're obsessed with men taking women out on "proper dates" - only women care about this.

No, you guys are severely overvaluing yourselves in the market. You had a thread about dropping a girl because she refused to come to your place before having a date. And you want OP to do the same. Not qualified to be giving anyone dating advice...

 

[ThisIsSparta]

They have not had any “legit” dates. Cooking at the house is not considered a “legit” date. They want to be taken out in public. It doesn’t have to be dinner; activities such as bowling or miniature golf suffice.

They had their 1st date in public.

A "date" is every meeting she agrees on time and place, wherever, whenever.

 

[EyeBRollin]

You're projecting your own failure onto everyone else. Just because you can't get laid without paying for it, you make the classic human error of assuming everyone else is operating under your paradigm.

Faulty argument. OP has already paid.

As ThisIsSparta said, there are different markets. You're operating in the Provider market (handjob once per year). Guys like me operate in the Lover market (sex on the 1st or 2nd date majority of the time).

No trouble for me getting triple digit lays in the “provider market” you speak of over the last 6 years.

Lover, provider, alpha - none of these things are mutually exclusive.

 

[EyeBRollin]

They had their 1st date in public.

A "date" is every meeting she agrees on time and place, wherever, whenever.

Not in this context. They don’t consider the first coffee date a “legit” date.

 

[EyeBRollin]

Triple digits is very good. Better than most men. Gotta respect that.

I'm sure your 3 date model works. It's just unnecessary in my experience and I'm an impatient guy.

Not taking them out ever leaves a lot of bangable girls on the table. All for what? To save $50?

This frame stuff is always misapplied. Asking a girl out on a date, planning it, and executing it is frame positive. It’s being a leader.

 

[ThisIsSparta]

Not in this context. They don’t consider the first coffee date a “legit” date.

I dont care what the women you score on consider to be a legit date.

If it works for you, great, rock on.

 

[In2theGame]

She demands a 5th date out to dinner prior to banging...

You've already lost.

 

[Lookatu]

There is no social contract saying you have to take a woman out for dinner before you can grab her by the pvssy.
If we are down to pre-historic courting rituals, it is also legit for him to provide the food in his cave which he did 3 times and which was totally fine for her.

Her insisting NOW to get to a place where no escalation can happen is just about control and getting herselve out of his dycks way.
There is no desire involved from her side, just her wish to bend him into her frame like she did by pushing his advances away during making out.

I agree with this.
Let's not forget that we're dealing with a 22yo which most are DTF sooner than later, unlike older gals. Unless she's very religious and has been societally programmed a certain way through religion, most girls in their low 20's shouldn't get more than two chances with you personally if you're just looking for sex or a plate material. There are way too many other girls that will fit the bill sooner.

Plus if she's controlling this much already, imagine her princess mentality going forward..."No I don't like you just wanting to screw me, you have to warm me up more..." type of crap as an example.

OP, I gotta hand it to you for lasting this long on her.

 

[ThisIsSparta]

Not taking them out ever leaves a lot of bangable girls on the table. All for what? To save $50?

This frame stuff is always misapplied. Asking a girl out on a date, planning it, and executing it is frame positive. It’s being a leader.

Nobody said that they are not taken out EVER.
They are never taken out when they DEMAND it as prepayment for sex or if they withhold sex until you submit to their frame

I'd really like to know - and I think everyone would - the HB level of girl all the posters here are fvckin' with.

'Cause if you're fvckin' with 5s and 6s, then comin' on here talkin about game....it means nothing.

But if you're routinely pulling 7.5s and 8.5s...you're a guy I want in my circle.

Who cares? One mans 8 is another mans 5.

There is no such thing as an objecitve makes-me-horny-scale.

 

[Mister_Skinny_Jeanz]

at 22 she should be fvckin already .unless you're going thrgh a drought, looking for a gf, or just simply really want to smash this particular bird , i would split the difference.

 

[Modern Man Advice]

What's up guys.

My original post about this chick is here for reference:

Do I give her a 4th date?

What's up guys. Tonight I had a third date with this chick I'm seeing. First date we met at a local coffee shop and made out at the end of the date. Second date she came to my place and I cooked dinner and she brought wine. We escalated and were making out on the couch, but after sucking on...

www.sosuave.net

Anyways, to leave off from that post. She came over for the 4th date Monday night. This time, since my strategy of escalating things on my couch had not worked in the past, I decided to act aloof and indifferent. I still made out with her, kissed her neck, etc., but she still seemed a bit guarded and I was not going to attempt to escalate again and have her slow things down.

I called her on her bluff and said "Well, it's getting late, etc., etc." And she seemed surprised that I actually was calling it a night. I walked her out and when she got home she texted me:

HER: "I had a lot of fun tonight as always! I'm just going to say out loud here I think next time I'm going to need to take advantage of you.. "
ME: "Take advantage, huh?"
HER: "Yes, exactly how you read it. But you hit me with the 'it's getting late.'

We cont. to banter a little back and forth and I covertly called her out on the fact that this was our fourth date and she really hadn't shown any signs of 'taking advantage' of me before. I mean seriously, actions speak louder than words and this 22 y.o. girl is not going to lead me into believing she was just going to pounce on me. If she wanted to - there was plenty of opportunity...

I end up inviting her to my place this Friday. We joked about how it would be her turn to cook dinner next time and after my invitation she said "do you want to go out though?"

ME: "Wow. Are you actually trying to get out of making us dinner? I'm surprised."
HER: "We've never gone out!"
ME: "We will sometime. I want to try your cooking. I'll bring the alcohol this time. If you ask nicely I'll even be your sous chef "
HER: "I get very mixed signals from you."
ME: "How's that?"
HER: You just don't want to go out with me, that's fine!!"
ME: "Well that's not true. I believe the first time we met it was in public?" (We went to get coffee date #1)
HER: "Yes that is true but I've suggested to go out and you've kinda avoided the subject."

This is when I got fed up and just stopped responding. I have had plenty of other plates who have been fine coming over, cooking together, hanging out at my place, etc., and never once questioning this. If a girl is truly into me, I feel like she shouldn't care what we are doing.

My interpretation: she is a 22 y.o. that may be a little full of herself and is getting fed info from her 21 y.o. sister who has a beta BF, or her other gal pals. Her and her sister are really close and I could see her sister and/or friends telling her "I wouldn't fuuck him unless he takes you out or buys you dinner." To me, if she doesn't appreciate the fact that I have cooked for her 3 times now (one of the times we cooked together), then she's getting nexted. We still have yet to fuuck, nor have I gotten head.

What do you think guys? Am I being a little too stubborn? Should I just take this girl to dinner as it will potentially end in sex? At this point, for me, I feel like I would totally lose frame if I gave into her demand for me to take her out to dinner, and I could go through all of that and still not get laid.

Sounds like she is forcing you into her frame which obviously you don't. Your approach should be either she enters your frame, gives way to your sexual advances, and complies or there is the door. Sounds a bit rough but it's been five dates brother, you've lost grip on this one. Get the upper hand or move on.

Modern Man Advice

 

[EyeBRollin]

Nobody said that they are not taken out EVER.
They are never taken out when they DEMAND it as prepayment for sex or if they withhold sex until you submit to their frame

Jesus. That’s what the market demands. This girl is making the same demand that was suggested to the OP in the last thread. I reckon she’s been complaining about a date from the start. The “why” is simple; a date is the social contract that has been established by society. Had he took the broad out on date #2 when it is customary to do so this isn’t even a conversation.

This has nothing to do with “frame.”

 

[TheNewStyle123]

I agree with this.
Let's not forget that we're dealing with a 22yo which most are DTF sooner than later, unlike older gals. Unless she's very religious and has been societally programmed a certain way through religion, most girls in their low 20's shouldn't get more than two chances with you personally if you're just looking for sex or a plate material. There are way too many other girls that will fit the bill sooner.

Plus if she's controlling this much already, imagine her princess mentality going forward..."No I don't like you just wanting to screw me, you have to warm me up more..." type of crap as an example.

OP, I gotta hand it to you for lasting this long on her.

That's how I feel man. Definitely get a lot of princess vibes from her. Wealthy family, just bought a new handbag "because I deserved it", etc. That's why I feel like I have done plenty for this chick so far with nothing in return.

 

[TheNewStyle123]

at 22 she should be fvckin already .unless you're going thrgh a drought, looking for a gf, or just simply really want to smash this particular bird , i would split the difference.

Nah, I don't want a LTR with her and I have other plates right now. I think it may be best to cut my losses too!

 

[Lookatu]

That's how I feel man. Definitely get a lot of princess vibes from her. Wealthy family, just bought a new handbag "because I deserved it", etc. That's why I feel like I have done plenty for this chick so far with nothing in return.

Princesses are only good for SNL or date 2 lays at best. Otherwise, you will always lose. Live and Learn...