Side b*tch game.. for the experienced, accomplished men ..

[cola]

Such advice won't be followed. Similar advice in this thread is beating a dead horse.

What @cola, @Max Baker, and others have already done is either accepted the moral implications of their desire, or totally don't care, and want to do what they want to do. You don't have to agree with them.

@cola isn't seeking feedback on the ethics of his choices, rather he's more interest on getting input on how he could fulfil his desire to have his cake and eat it too.

Y'all in the "Don't cheat" and "Real men this, real man that" crowd are just pushing your morals onto the OP. While I personally believe morals are subjective for the most part, I concede that most people would align in camps that wouldn't encourage OP's desires. But he doesn't care.

How long have you been living in my head rent free? You literally articulated my thoughts as if they were your own, that my friend is a gift.

 

[EyeBRollin]

That’s a lie. I’ve never had a woman leave me for cheating on her. If anything it makes them like you more. They are deranged like that.

They lose respect for you because you got caught cheating and groveled and begged for forgiveness.

Is the best play when caught to deny outright or to admit you did and pretend it’s no big deal?

 

[cola]

Is the best play when caught to deny outright or to admit you did and pretend it’s no big deal?

If there is no concrete evidence, deny. If caught red handed It’s best to admit you did, apologize ONCE and give her the option to leave or live with it.
it drives them crazy..it literally makes them more in love with you when you do it this way.

 

[TheProspect]

Wrong. Women want you to be attractive to other women (that turns her on), but pretending you're monogamous and then she catches you cheating and lying to her makes her lose respect in the long term. Yes, it does initially spike her insecurity and fear of loss, but that doesn't last. She now has a massive incentive to cuck you. She'll also tell all her friends and family that you've cheated and they will be encouraging her to leave you. They will eventually win because women are massively influenced by their support networks.

Lying and getting caught is beta and that turns her off - not apologising is cool, but she will think you're an a$$hole and this will increase her drama-seeking and her ability to be submissive to you. She will start rebelling against your authority. Cheating hurts her ego, breeds resentment and she'll now be very open to a new guy. She will also no longer trust you, and trust is the underpinning of a successful LTR.

All of this assumes one will be caught cheating though. It appears you’re suggesting it’s not worth the risk if caught, but what’s worth the risk is subjective.

I don’t think Cola is concerned with the risk. At least if he is, he’s okay with accepting the the potential consequences if caught. He created this thread wanting advice on how to cheat and get away with it — not on the potential consequences that could happen if he failed to do so.

And no, it’s not a guarantee you’ll eventually be caught cheating.

Not everyone gets caught cheating.

And caught or not, not everyone regrets cheating neither. It doesn’t weigh heavily on everyone’s conscience.

Lying and getting caught aren’t inherently beta. At the end of the day, alpha and beta definitions are subjective too.

I define an alpha as someone who does whatever the fvck they want — including having their cake and eat it too.

This thread wasn’t created to solicit opinions about why a man shouldn’t try to have it both ways. Rather, this thread was created to seek input on how a man can have it both ways, consequences be damned.

Not everyone chooses to live a optimally moral life in the eyes of others. And some people are perfectly fine sleeping at night morally bankrupt.

 

[TheProspect]

I don't judge cheating at all. I'm a massive cheater and I've got lots of experience with this.

You can get away with a lot cheating in an LTR. The more you get away with it, the more complacent you get. It's just the way it goes. You eventually get caught. Women are not nearly as stupid as we like to think. Once you're caught then the relationship is never the same again - you get great make-up sex for a while, and then the relationship becomes low-quality because she resents you.

A common way to get caught is through STDs, which are super common these days. Even condoms don't protect you from things like Chlamydia. What are you going to tell her? that you caught it off a toilet seat at work? Your girlfriend will also start to get a weird smelling vag because you're introducing all the new bacteria into it from your ho's - women's vag's have pretty sensitive bacterial flora, so if you cheat on her enough then she'll start to wonder why her vag smells.

Things like phones also get guys caught. One of your ho's calls you while you're in the shower and your gf picks it up. Your gf finds your secret phone. You fall asleep and leave your laptop on and she gets into your social media. Soooo many angles to cover and you will mess up eventually. Women are like ninjas.

My advice is only from the point of view of this: Is it worth risking blowing up your LTR (assuming she's a high quality girl) for a cheap nut in some ho? In my experience, the more you cheat the more you want to cheat.

It's perfectly natural for a man to want to cheat in an LTR, but if you "love" her then the consequences are dire. If you don't "love" her then why on earth would you be in an LTR with her?

It's the ultimate conundrum and it's why I avoid LTR's. I find it impossible to be faithful.

Good insight my man.

I’m somewhere on the sociopathic spectrum, so in my case it’s not exactly easy for me to truly care about my moral shortcomings. Although I have improved in this regard over the years, albeit more for rational and practical reasons than compassionate ones.

I think the only thing that would make me feel truly bad, if I cheated.... is if I gave my LTR an STD, specifically a permanent one.

 

[cola]

I’m certainly no sociopath. I disagree about not getting her best after you cheat on a female.
It’s been my experience after getting caught cheating and not groveling, they always like you more. Perhaps the key is the female you cheat with look as good or better than your girl.

 

[EyeBRollin]

Solid discussion, gentlemen. I’m taking notes.

Ive always felt the urge to cheat about 9-12 months into a relationship. I’ve done it in my last two relationships. I didn’t get caught, as both times neither occasion violated the 100 mile rule (I’ve never heard of that concept). Also, the relationship was over shortly at that point from my end.

 

[Lookatu]

That’s a lie. I’ve never had a woman leave me for cheating on her. If anything it makes them like you more. They are deranged like that.

They lose respect for you because you got caught cheating and groveled and begged for forgiveness.

Awhile ago when I didn't know better, I would've said you were full of $hit as it goes against societal programming and just general logic.

HOWEVER, I've experienced this quite a few times to know that the phrase below holds true ALWAYS.

"Women would rather share alphas than be monogamous with a beta"

This concept still blows my mind even after all this time.

If your woman leaves you or doesn't give you a chance, then you simply weren't alpha enough for her. Of course there will be exceptions and that comes down to age, options, her love/desire for you, her mental state, etc.

I do agree that eventually if you get in a non-monogamous relationship or cheat, it definitely does have a finite shelf life though.

However this doesn't give you cart blanche to do whatever you want and go screw every other woman. Every person will be different when it comes to this and there is no wrong or right IMO.

Some just want to venture out of curiosity and may eventually find what they have at home is their best option. While others aren't getting it enough at home in which case it's either his hand or finding someone that can fulfill him sexually if he has the option and would like to explore that path. So many reasons out there for us to judge at face value. My $.02

 

[TheProspect]

... the relationship was over shortly at that point from my end.

Interesting, a thought came to me now and I wonder if we men perhaps sometime check out sexually shortly before the dissolution of a relationship the same way women do emotionally.

 

[In2theGame]

Some just want to venture out of curiosity and may eventually find what they have at home is their best option. While others aren't getting it enough at home in which case it's either his hand or finding someone that can fulfill him sexually if he has the option and would like to explore that path. So many reasons out there for us to judge at face value. My $.02

Thought this about myself. My GF gives me sex whenever I want and how I want it. Pound in every hole I want. Sex is good but I think for me it comes down to variety. A new ass, new, pvssy, new t!ts, new moans and reactions it's hard to beat.

 

[Lookatu]

Thought this about myself. My GF gives me sex whenever I want and how I want it. Pound in every hole I want. Sex is good but I think for me it comes down to variety. A new ass, new, pvssy, new t!ts, new moans and reactions it's hard to beat.

This is the age old question and debate on whether men can be monogamous their whole lives or not. In this regard, monogamy refers to just having sex with one girl. It doesn't imply full blown relationships with many or feelings for others.

There's no question that you still like sex with your gf and care about your gf and would probably stick with her.

As you say it's the newness of it all and nothing more, only interested in the pure physical only, as you are receiving everything from your GF already.

As they say, variety is the spice of life.

 

[BeExcellent]

As I stated earlier in this thread there is no need to deceive or lie. Be brutally forthright in how you operate. That gives you maximum power and leverage. If women stay under those circumstances (and for true “alphas” they WILL), then you have retained your integrity and you have carte blanche to do as you will in good conscience.

I know men who operate openly this way. About who they see and what they require (adventurous sex, threesomes, whatever)...

They also accept that the women are free to do as they like with others and they accept that people enjoy sex and do not expect to limit women while not limiting themselves...

But few men have the core strength to operate that way. That is the bigger issue.

 

[Barrister]

As I stated earlier in this thread there is no need to deceive or lie. Be brutally forthright in how you operate. That gives you maximum power and leverage. If women stay under those circumstances (and for true “alphas” they WILL), then you have retained your integrity and you have carte blanche to do as you will in good conscience.

I know men who operate openly this way. About who they see and what they require (adventurous sex, threesomes, whatever)...

They also accept that the women are free to do as they like with others and they accept that people enjoy sex and do not expect to limit women while not limiting themselves...

But few men have the core strength to operate that way. That is the bigger issue.

My experience is women who are even high interest will put up with this only for a limited amount of time before some combination of their insecurity from it and social pressures will make them cut it off. It's been awhile, but I had some relationships like this when I was younger where I was seeing multiple people and made them aware I was sleeping with more women than just them. That wasn't, however, a true LTR - and I feel like the examples you cite above are likely predominantly also in a more laid back relationship and not a true monogamous, LTR.

As far as a LTR, which I think is kind of the background @cola is referencing in the OP since he is talking about "side-b1tch" game which indicates this isn't really plate spinning, I think this would be next to impossible to maintain especially if this is not how the relationship has historically operated. I can't imagine coming up to my partner of a long period of time who I have been monogamous with and suddenly telling her "I am going to start fu*king this other woman. Take it or leave it. If you aren't ok with it don't let the door hit you on the way out" -- and thinking she is going to stick around. Maybe you can pull it off if they are also into an "open" relationship but that is really what it comes down to. If they aren't I don't think most women will stay in the LTR at that point while you are off with another woman off and on. No matter how alpha you are.

 

[Juanto]

Thought this about myself. My GF gives me sex whenever I want and how I want it. Pound in every hole I want. Sex is good but I think for me it comes down to variety. A new ass, new, pvssy, new t!ts, new moans and reactions it's hard to beat.

This. Its how I feel too.

 

[BeExcellent]

My experience is women who are even high interest will put up with this only for a limited amount of time before some combination of their insecurity from it and social pressures will make them cut it off. It's been awhile, but I had some relationships like this when I was younger where I was seeing multiple people and made them aware I was sleeping with more women than just them. That wasn't, however, a true LTR - and I feel like the examples you cite above are likely predominantly also in a more laid back relationship and not a true monogamous, LTR.

As far as a LTR, which I think is kind of the background @cola is referencing in the OP since he is talking about "side-b1tch" game which indicates this isn't really plate spinning, I think this would be next to impossible to maintain especially if this is not how the relationship has historically operated. I can't imagine coming up to my partner of a long period of time who I have been monogamous with and suddenly telling her "I am going to start fu*king this other woman. Take it or leave it. If you aren't ok with it don't let the door hit you on the way out" -- and thinking she is going to stick around. Maybe you can pull it off if they are also into an "open" relationship but that is really what it comes down to. If they aren't I don't think most women will stay in the LTR at that point while you are off with another woman off and on. No matter how alpha you are.

I agree with you in a general sense. The men I know who are doing this successfully are highly desirable men, handsome, successful, sought after. I know 4 who immediately come to mind. Each has sufficient value to be able to dictate the terms of his relationship. And so they do. One lives with a beautiful physician, one lives with an pretty Asian finance professional in Upper East Side NYC, one is a financier in the SF Bay Area, whose spouse could model, and one is local to me (my playboy buddy I pal around with).

The men have THAT much value. All are open about how they exist. They are not going to be dictated to by any woman or shamed into doing differently because of some social construct. Yes they lose or have lost in the past some women who were not on board...but those women lost access to top tier men as well. Three of these men are serious multimillionaires (all 3 are in 10+ year relationships), all are emotionally loyal to the primary partner, and so on.

My close friend is actively screening for a woman who will love & accept him as he exists, and right now his greatest emotional investment is in me, but that will organically change when he finds the right match for himself.

This is about real abundance. Beautiful women are everywhere. Each of these men is well accustomed to beautiful women. Sex is a commodity. Novelty has its place, but these men have so much abundance (IDGAF and no fear of loss), that they can build intimacy and trust with the primary partner while having novelty openly on the side.

 

[In2theGame]

A woman wants a guy who is attractive to other women, whom other women want to f*ck, but who is committed to her. That's the ultimate female mating strategy.

I think that's one of the biggest challenges for Women and also attractive Men in relationships/marriage. Yes, Women want that "Alpha" male who is attractive to other Women and has a sexy demeanor about him that Women find very attractive but then she runs into the issues of wanting him to be this 100% loyal Man only to her. Is it possible to have this handsome "prince charming" that only has eyes of lust for her? Yeah, it's possible but realistically somewhere down the line, he may d!ck down another Woman he finds attractive even if he wants to stay with his current Girlfriend/Wife.

I don't agree with the cheating part of all this because it's going to bring drama/stress and unnecessary situations. Also scrambling to make sure lies are stringing together and consistent = problematic. This is why some Women are fearful of even getting involved with very good looking Men because they know there is a chance another Woman much sexier than her may come along and tempt him for sex. They then settle for a less attractive Man and are "happy" he's loyal and devoted to her but long term... she's just not lustful for him. In some cases the "safe" unattractive Man will cheat anyway and shatter her idea if a "safe" guy.

I'm thinking Poly is going to be the future.

 

[TheProspect]

My conclusion is that LTR's are just a bad idea in this current society. The risks outweigh the rewards.

If you want an LTR then you essentially have to ensure that you never fall in love with your woman as to avoid Oneitis, and you must constantly Game her. What's the point?

I'm reaching the same conclusion.

Some may argue against the need to game our LTR, but game, as I see it, is about establishing rapport and building/maintaining interest. If we can't maintain the interest and attraction that led to the LTR in the first place, the expiration date of it is sooner than later.

The point being that if game does not come easy to us, it's going to be a lot of deliberate effort put into one woman. In other words, we're naturally going to become invested to some degree and most men aren't mindful enough to know when they are starting to over-invest & emotionally compromise their game and also their ability to lead. Gradual over-investment happens as onenitus simultaneously creeps in. Frog in boiling water type of situation.

Falling in love (obsession) and developing onenitus blinds us, we subsequently lose both power and perspective. We almost need to be constantly detached, at least to the point where you can sustain a bird's eye view of the relationship indefinitely, in order to have that proper perspective to catch when the dynamic might be shifting in a undesirable way (assuming you want to stay in the LTR).

On the other hand, there's a different set of a problems that arise for us men who don't easily get attached, who can usually remain detached and less invested in the LTR than the girl at all times. One would think that a higher quality chick would eventually want her man to show that he is capable of displaying vulnerability, and to show through his actions more investment in her...to show that he's all in. If us men don't compromise to some degree at some point, this could negatively impact the relationship... But if we over-correct we run the risk of the problems already mentioned earlier...

Some form of a calibrated strategy is required to balance the apparent dichotomy, and thus, the constant need to game. And if the right game doesn't come naturally to us to some degree, we're operating at a disadvantage.

Most men seeking and entering LTRs are at that disadvantage.

 

[Lookatu]

As I stated earlier in this thread there is no need to deceive or lie. Be brutally forthright in how you operate. That gives you maximum power and leverage. If women stay under those circumstances (and for true “alphas” they WILL), then you have retained your integrity and you have carte blanche to do as you will in good conscience.

I know men who operate openly this way. About who they see and what they require (adventurous sex, threesomes, whatever)...

They also accept that the women are free to do as they like with others and they accept that people enjoy sex and do not expect to limit women while not limiting themselves...

But few men have the core strength to operate that way. That is the bigger issue.

Agree.
I know quite a few people in this type of scenario and I think it's the best way to operate if you wanna seek sex outside of the relationship. But I just wanna state for the guys that has never been in this scenario, it's not just something you can do with anyone or even a new girl that you just started seeing for a shortwhile. Also she can't be totally blue pill or it won't work.

This is more for those that have had established relationships or have built something with each other for her to see your full worth and value.

And if there are mistakes made on either side, it will end. Murphy's law will say if you stick with this type of arrangement long enough, mistakes will be made by someone and as @Barrister indicated, it won't be sustainable and have a finite shelf life.

 

[TheProspect]

I think this is the biggest learning gap in the manosphere and on Sosuave.

Over the years I've read a lot of posts from wise posters (and some dumb ones) saying that falling in love, developing crushes, feelings, and the like is the province of women, but not capital-M Men. Better to be detached for when the other shoe drops, or to keep her in "dread."

But those things (love, crushes) don't have to mean obsession. It's framed that way around here because for so many former chumps, that's what it once meant. I see so many guys on SS self-flagellating because they got a crush on some chick or developed feelings. When what they could really be doing is enjoying these things for what they are and welcoming the challenge they bring to the self - how to handle it without compromising your interests.

Strategies don't work, IMO. Once you start strategizing, your relationship (plate or LTR) becomes a project, and you start investing in non-investment.

The only thing that has worked for me is:

Find your mission and follow it.

I can't stress this enough. Ninety-nine percent of everything else falls into place. I'm not saying you shouldn't think before you act, or seek advice. I'm just saying that all of the boogeymen that haunt Sosuave can be neutralized if you

Find your mission and follow it.

AMOGs, Chads, Dual Mating Strategies, being "cucked," wondering "how to play this," wondering if you should next, wondering if you should call her out, should you be nicer, should you commit...none of this shyt matters when you

Find your mission and follow it.

Heck, you can even take on a side bytch and have it all blow up in your face, but you'll be fine. (Circling back to the thread topic...I almost forgot.)

I agree with your points. My post was from a risk-adverse "protect yourself" perspective, which at the extreme end would just be to not even attempt an LTR.

Personally speaking, I see myself entertaining a relationship again if the conditions are right. Although given my direction in life at the moment, it wouldn't be for a couple years at least. But any relationship I do get in would have to develop naturally and not through strategizing. I don't want to have to constantly think about how to maintain it.

"Find your mission and follow it." In the last few months I've chosen to go on a different path in life that I'm excited about, that's totally independent of women and dating. Oddly enough, I feel by focusing on that mission, any LTR I do get into, I wouldn't have the time, energy, or willingness to make it a project, as you put it, as the mission is the focus. Rather, a relationship would be secondary to my mission, and I would be good with or without one.

 

[Ricky]

That's kind of what's happened with me. I have a girlfriend (I guess I'll call her). But I sort of picked her up while pursuing other stuff and have never really put the focus on her, even though she's super cool. Of course I focus on her when I'm with her, but you get what I mean. As a result I'm just much more indifferent to whether she sticks around or not....and of course she sticks around.

I learned this the hard way, in part when I dated girls who didn't like competing with my goals. Faulty frame on my part but I learned.

Trivia - Robert Plant wrote "Ten Years Gone" by Led Zeppelin about a girl who, a decade earlier and well pre-Zep, told him he had to choose between his musical career and his relationship. By the time he wrote the song, Zep was the #1 band in the world; today they are legends.

That is such a great Zeppelin song. Need to play that on my guitar again.