article: Why PUA ultimately failed

[Who Dares Win]

An ugly guy running pua game is like a 90s IBM computer running windows 10....it aint gonna work.

A good software makes the best out of a hardware as long as the hardware has what it needs to reach the wanted performance.

 

[illstep]

When you boil down 'game', the outer techniques are all really just 'flirting' (with a few other basic stuff)
Think of the 'attraction material' in PUA. (e.g the stuff you do to MAKE girl attracted to you when she isn't already)
Things like 'push pull' (which is basic flirting). Negs (which is basically flirting since it's breaking rapport).
Flirting is great, but it doesn't make a girl want you if she isn't into you, as the literature suggests (but it's good to use to move the interaction forward with girls who DO think you're hot).
The act of flirting doesn't make her attracted. Same for 'dhv sotries'. Same for self amusement and good body langauge etc. Same for all 'game'
Nothing you say can 'persuade' or manipulate a girl who isn't attracted to you into being attracted and wanting to bang you. (discounting sugar daddy game/prostitution which is 'persuasion' of sorts, but that still isn't attraction)
No more than an ugly girl could 'persuade' you into desperately wanting to bang her. (that's when you get into ross jefferies 'NLP' stuff etc lol. As if he could bang hot teens now, although in theory he'd say he could because he'd hijack her brain using NLP lol)

Game for me was actually a 'success' of sorts, though.

After I discovered cold approach, I got laid a lot more than if i'd never read about it. But in hindsight I realise that my success (just like all PUA's) came from numbers game. Approaching enough that you eventually find a girl who thinks you are good looking, and then having the balls to escalte on THEM girls. It's never ever helped with girls who for whom I wasn't their type though. At all. (and there's NO PUA theory that i'm not aware of. Trust me on that!)

That's it.

But game is no replacement for attraction.

The cringiest threads i've ever read for example were noobs on NLP or mysterymethod forums yet to make their first approach saying: 'Is this unethical? I feel guilty for persuading/forcing hard attraction and manipulating girls into wanting to bang me using these negs and NLP lines' lol. (As if 'game' is some sort of jedi mind trick)

And I think in terms of comminity, the wheels started to fall off to some extent as soon as things like youtube came about. Before that, wannabe PUA's were making all these outrageous claims on forums, and obviously nobody expected them to film it and email them the footage lol. But youtube took lots of excuses away. It also meant others could easily upload themselvese trying these various PUA methods, and people with a pair of eyes start to realise 'Ahhh!! It 'works' when he opens a girl who is clearly into him. And it fails badly when he negs/cold reads/does whatever, on a girl who isn't into him'. And I guess online dating and stuff kind of put the nail in the coffin and confirmed that girls really are the same as guys. We're a visual species. (especially the very young, very hot girls and are the ones we all want lol)

 

[Spaz]

When you boil down 'game', the outer techniques are all really just 'flirting' (with a few other basic stuff)
Think of the 'attraction material' in PUA. (e.g the stuff you do to MAKE girl attracted to you when she isn't already)
Things like 'push pull' (which is basic flirting). Negs (which is basically flirting since it's breaking rapport).
Flirting is great, but it doesn't make a girl want you if she isn't into you, as the literature suggests (but it's good to use to move the interaction forward with girls who DO think you're hot).
The act of flirting doesn't make her attracted. Same for 'dhv sotries'. Same for self amusement and good body langauge etc. Same for all 'game'
Nothing you say can 'persuade' or manipulate a girl who isn't attracted to you into being attracted and wanting to bang you. (discounting sugar daddy game/prostitution which is 'persuasion' of sorts, but that still isn't attraction)
No more than an ugly girl could 'persuade' you into desperately wanting to bang her. (that's when you get into ross jefferies 'NLP' stuff etc lol. As if he could bang hot teens now, although in theory he'd say he could because he'd hijack her brain using NLP lol)

Game for me was actually a 'success' of sorts, though.

After I discovered cold approach, I got laid a lot more than if i'd never read about it. But in hindsight I realise that my success (just like all PUA's) came from numbers game. Approaching enough that you eventually find a girl who thinks you are good looking, and then having the balls to escalte on THEM girls. It's never ever helped with girls who for whom I wasn't their type though. At all. (and there's NO PUA theory that i'm not aware of. Trust me on that!)

That's it.

But game is no replacement for attraction.

The cringiest threads i've ever read for example were noobs on NLP or mysterymethod forums yet to make their first approach saying: 'Is this unethical? I feel guilty for persuading/forcing hard attraction and manipulating girls into wanting to bang me using these negs and NLP lines' lol. (As if 'game' is some sort of jedi mind trick)

And I think in terms of comminity, the wheels started to fall off to some extent as soon as things like youtube came about. Before that, wannabe PUA's were making all these outrageous claims on forums, and obviously nobody expected them to film it and email them the footage lol. But youtube took lots of excuses away. It also meant others could easily upload themselvese trying these various PUA methods, and people with a pair of eyes start to realise 'Ahhh!! It 'works' when he opens a girl who is clearly into him. And it fails badly when he negs/cold reads/does whatever, on a girl who isn't into him'. And I guess online dating and stuff kind of put the nail in the coffin and confirmed that girls really are the same as guys. We're a visual species. (especially the very young, very hot girls and are the ones we all want lol)

If you hv made many achievements in life, other then getting laid, you WILL get laid effortlessly.

You might want to deny this fact but deep down, every man here knows this truth, they just don't want to admit their mediocrity.

Irony huh?

 

[illstep]

If you hv made many achievements in life, other then getting laid, you WILL get laid effortlessly.

that's not how it works (unless you mean just paying girls for sex/sugar daddy game etc)
Some ugly old dude who has an amazing job and makes bank would get laughed at/rejected trying to pickup hot teens where I live lol. They couldn't give a ****. They need ATTRACTION!

 

[cheyne]

I think enough people realised it's mainly marketing.
Girls are the same as we are. They want a guy they think is sexy.
Handsome broke guys clean up. Rich unattractive guys struggle. (they tend to use hookers or move to south East Asia if they're white)
Game can help, but mainly, game is about helping you close the deal with attracted girls. Not in building attraction. Nothing other her thinking you are hot can do that heavy lifting

 

[Spaz]

that's not how it works (unless you mean just paying girls for sex/sugar daddy game etc)
Some ugly old dude who has an amazing job and makes bank would get laughed at/rejected trying to pickup hot teens where I live lol. They couldn't give a ****. They need ATTRACTION!

When I say achievements, it doesn't just mean money in the bank.

For example, Steven Tyler, how is it that he fvcks more then you do when he's a 100 X uglier then you?

Take a good look at this picture and imprint this image into ur brain, now chg ur mindset.

 

[mickdollaz]

...the PUA fad gave them “permission” to play a numbers game. The only good that came out of it was getting guys to go out and try. They either succeeded, or they got an advanced blackpill education lol.

I just feel bad for guys that wasted a lot of money on it. Or those that got addicted to it and wasted a lot of time too.

...many of those guys were so far in the hole in terms of emotional IQ and development though that they could never gauge what proper action might look like. I tend to suspect that many of them were actually in fact sleazy enough to believe that putting on a furry hat and using "negs" might actually work.

Self improvement is a long haul, long term process but these guys were looking for a short cut. They lacked the character and for lack of a better term, constitution, to actually improve themselves.

Some gurus used to estimate about 1 in 10 for a top notch PUA. I think 1 in 100 was considered a number for an average guy with no particular “skill.”

In the old days, 1 in 100 wasn’t bad. If he met 8 women a week (say four twice per week), that’s one lay every three months. But it’s still a lot of time, money and hearing loss in the loud clubs lol.

It's crazy to use that term in anything but an ironic sense, isn't it?

Some guys probably did spam approach as a lark, but the numbers game was ineffective. It can and could only work when approaching women close to, or below, the "pua's" lms level, which was typically well below average.

I still have friends who are above average in looks career who can only score in cold approach with fat girls and ugly girls.

It's amazing that to this day, guys still believe that they can randomly approach 100 women and this guarantees them 1 lay with a hot girl. By the time they got around to the 4th or 5th girl, they were going to generate so much tension and animosity, they might be shut out PERMANENTLY in an entire town.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Sounds like the author tried a bit, didn't get much, and then concluded that PUA was a failure.

Kind of like fat people say diets don't work.

The problem with people trying anything new is they expect it to work right away and are not expecting to have to fail miserably at first and then slowly improve until they become good at it over time and with repetition.

It would be like someone going outside and shooting 5 free throws wondering thinking they should be able to play in the NBA and then getting mad when they go against those players and get destroyed.

 

[redskinsfan92]

That's why I kind of disagree with this thread. PUA didn't fail for the guys promoting it - it made a lot of many for some companies who sold the product because they found a weakness in people which the exploited to their benefit.


If a guy gets one lay out of 100 approaches, is that considered good or bad?

Good, if it gave him confidence to make approaches he wasn't making

 

[nicksaiz65]

When you boil down 'game', the outer techniques are all really just 'flirting' (with a few other basic stuff)
Think of the 'attraction material' in PUA. (e.g the stuff you do to MAKE girl attracted to you when she isn't already)
Things like 'push pull' (which is basic flirting). Negs (which is basically flirting since it's breaking rapport).
Flirting is great, but it doesn't make a girl want you if she isn't into you, as the literature suggests (but it's good to use to move the interaction forward with girls who DO think you're hot).
The act of flirting doesn't make her attracted. Same for 'dhv sotries'. Same for self amusement and good body langauge etc. Same for all 'game'
Nothing you say can 'persuade' or manipulate a girl who isn't attracted to you into being attracted and wanting to bang you. (discounting sugar daddy game/prostitution which is 'persuasion' of sorts, but that still isn't attraction)
No more than an ugly girl could 'persuade' you into desperately wanting to bang her. (that's when you get into ross jefferies 'NLP' stuff etc lol. As if he could bang hot teens now, although in theory he'd say he could because he'd hijack her brain using NLP lol)

Game for me was actually a 'success' of sorts, though.

After I discovered cold approach, I got laid a lot more than if i'd never read about it. But in hindsight I realise that my success (just like all PUA's) came from numbers game. Approaching enough that you eventually find a girl who thinks you are good looking, and then having the balls to escalte on THEM girls. It's never ever helped with girls who for whom I wasn't their type though. At all. (and there's NO PUA theory that i'm not aware of. Trust me on that!)

That's it.

But game is no replacement for attraction.

The cringiest threads i've ever read for example were noobs on NLP or mysterymethod forums yet to make their first approach saying: 'Is this unethical? I feel guilty for persuading/forcing hard attraction and manipulating girls into wanting to bang me using these negs and NLP lines' lol. (As if 'game' is some sort of jedi mind trick)

And I think in terms of comminity, the wheels started to fall off to some extent as soon as things like youtube came about. Before that, wannabe PUA's were making all these outrageous claims on forums, and obviously nobody expected them to film it and email them the footage lol. But youtube took lots of excuses away. It also meant others could easily upload themselvese trying these various PUA methods, and people with a pair of eyes start to realise 'Ahhh!! It 'works' when he opens a girl who is clearly into him. And it fails badly when he negs/cold reads/does whatever, on a girl who isn't into him'. And I guess online dating and stuff kind of put the nail in the coffin and confirmed that girls really are the same as guys. We're a visual species. (especially the very young, very hot girls and are the ones we all want lol)

Yeah. You hit the nail on the head. If a girl isn't physically attracted to you, no amount of Game will work. That's why a big part of Game is improving your appearance so that more girls are attracted to you. Then, you play the Numbers Game until you meet one who is attracted to you and then use your game to get the lay.

 

[nicksaiz65]

Good, if it gave him confidence to make approaches he wasn't making

Not only that, but the only number that matters is the amount of chicks you fvck. Had that guy not put himself out there, the amount of women he banged would have been 0.

 

[Mike32ct]

...many of those guys were so far in the hole in terms of emotional IQ and development though that they could never gauge what proper action might look like. I tend to suspect that many of them were actually in fact sleazy enough to believe that putting on a furry hat and using "negs" might actually work.

Self improvement is a long haul, long term process but these guys were looking for a short cut. They lacked the character and for lack of a better term, constitution, to actually improve themselves.



It's crazy to use that term in anything but an ironic sense, isn't it?

Just to be clear, they weren’t my theories. Just ones thrown around back in the day by these gurus ie marketers.

Some guys probably did spam approach as a lark, but the numbers game was ineffective. It can and could only work when approaching women close to, or below, the "pua's" lms level, which was typically well below average.

I still have friends who are above average in looks career who can only score in cold approach with fat girls and ugly girls.

I don’t doubt that. And those are guys that self-improved.

It's amazing that to this day, guys still believe that they can randomly approach 100 women and this guarantees them 1 lay with a hot girl. By the time they got around to the 4th or 5th girl, they were going to generate so much tension and animosity, they might be shut out PERMANENTLY in an entire town.

Understood. I didn’t say 100 to 1 to land a hot girl. I said a girl, who could still be ugly despite all that effort.

But yeah you’re right. The PUA gurus wanted the ugly guy to believe he could numbers game his way to a Stacey.

I also agreed that mass approaching is no longer realistic today.

 

[metalwater]

If you hv made many achievements in life, other then getting laid, you WILL get laid effortlessly.

You might want to deny this fact but deep down, every man here knows this truth, they just don't want to admit their mediocrity.

Irony huh?

actually many have a hard time accepting their own greatness. as soon as they do; others also see it. every time.

 

[Lynx nkaf]

When you boil down 'game', the outer techniques are all really just 'flirting' (with a few other basic stuff)
Think of the 'attraction material' in PUA. (e.g the stuff you do to MAKE girl attracted to you when she isn't already)
Things like 'push pull' (which is basic flirting). Negs (which is basically flirting since it's breaking rapport).
Flirting is great, but it doesn't make a girl want you if she isn't into you, as the literature suggests (but it's good to use to move the interaction forward with girls who DO think you're hot).
The act of flirting doesn't make her attracted. Same for 'dhv sotries'. Same for self amusement and good body langauge etc. Same for all 'game'
Nothing you say can 'persuade' or manipulate a girl who isn't attracted to you into being attracted and wanting to bang you. (discounting sugar daddy game/prostitution which is 'persuasion' of sorts, but that still isn't attraction)
No more than an ugly girl could 'persuade' you into desperately wanting to bang her. (that's when you get into ross jefferies 'NLP' stuff etc lol. As if he could bang hot teens now, although in theory he'd say he could because he'd hijack her brain using NLP lol)

Game for me was actually a 'success' of sorts, though.

After I discovered cold approach, I got laid a lot more than if i'd never read about it. But in hindsight I realise that my success (just like all PUA's) came from numbers game. Approaching enough that you eventually find a girl who thinks you are good looking, and then having the balls to escalte on THEM girls. It's never ever helped with girls who for whom I wasn't their type though. At all. (and there's NO PUA theory that i'm not aware of. Trust me on that!)

That's it.

But game is no replacement for attraction.

The cringiest threads i've ever read for example were noobs on NLP or mysterymethod forums yet to make their first approach saying: 'Is this unethical? I feel guilty for persuading/forcing hard attraction and manipulating girls into wanting to bang me using these negs and NLP lines' lol. (As if 'game' is some sort of jedi mind trick)

And I think in terms of comminity, the wheels started to fall off to some extent as soon as things like youtube came about. Before that, wannabe PUA's were making all these outrageous claims on forums, and obviously nobody expected them to film it and email them the footage lol. But youtube took lots of excuses away. It also meant others could easily upload themselvese trying these various PUA methods, and people with a pair of eyes start to realise 'Ahhh!! It 'works' when he opens a girl who is clearly into him. And it fails badly when he negs/cold reads/does whatever, on a girl who isn't into him'. And I guess online dating and stuff kind of put the nail in the coffin and confirmed that girls really are the same as guys. We're a visual species. (especially the very young, very hot girls and are the ones we all want lol)

nlp could work for girls to use on guys? What is neuro linguistic programming?
Just saying suggestive words? Using a trance voice?
Forcing visualisation by good storytelling?

 

[mickdollaz]

Understood. I didn’t say 100 to 1 to land a hot girl. I said a girl, who could still be ugly despite all that effort.

But yeah you’re right. The PUA gurus wanted the ugly guy to believe he could numbers game his way to a Stacey.

I also agreed that mass approaching is no longer realistic today.

That was never the promise of PUA. The promise was that ANYONE could land a hot girl with enough practice. It was the singular delusion that led to so many millions of dollars spent even though now we can easily spot it all as fraudulent marketing. I never spent a dime on that stuff but I know people who spent many thousands of dollars.

 

[corrector]

Social Success Pheromone - Alpha A314

A314 cologne is a powerful blend of 17 pheromones that enhance your confidence and gives you amazing social experiences you will never forget

androtics.com

Looks like the prices went way up on this site. Thought they were gone with the red-pill PUA game, but they are still alive and well.

This was never part of the PUA-universe, but it was part of my interpretation of PUA when I took it seriously. The idea is you spray some of this stuff on to taylor the type of vibe you want to make on a lady since subcommunication, vibe, aura. Self-effects are varied. For example, you need to have a certain mental pace in order to connect with a lady. My wiring is faster paced and I normally feel nervous. If this slows down and I just feel comfortable then its easier to talk or flirt.

The experiment of this peaked in 2011. In 2008 I tried to stimulate natural pheromones by bath sea salt or Sandlewood essential oil rather than using soap (i.e. real soap washes away natural pheromones). In 2011 a proper experiment was made. Again, only subtle effects but nothing too dramatic.

The most interesting one was the Dial soap with pheromones. I saw women playing with their hair while talking with me and feeling some sort of daze with the soap fumes on. After I had my first "relationship" and fiancee in 2012, interest in this was lost and apart from a brief spike near the end of 2013, this basically faded out. There are still old bottles downstairs, but they are probably way past the expiration date by about a number of years.

Again, pheromones are not officially part of the PUA, but it was something that I was very keen about during the whole PUA Zeitgeist. I still feel that my loss of interest in this coincides with the decline of PUA and the interest is just not there in making women in public social lab experiments to boost my ego. (ie. You can't feel rejection from women if they are part of an elaborate experiment that they are the subject to, it's just the wrong combination of pheromone spray, keep trying other combinations and see what the results are, etc...)

My memories using pheromones still stand out as there were high quality social connections with some types of women, but then not enough to form a big memory on, or feel nostalgic about today. But then who remembers a good PUA method that worked for you and feel nostalgic memory about it? Something about it feels too fake to form a high quality memory.

 

[Spaz]

actually many have a hard time accepting their own greatness. as soon as they do; others also see it. every time.

It doesn't surprise me at all that those men who claims they do a hundred approaches doesn't get laid often.

It also doesn't surprise me at all when there are men who doesn't do approaches but gets a hundred lays.

The difference between those 2 is not just linked to looks, the men here is erroneously thinking that their attraction values towards females = female attraction values towards males.

For most part, males values physical attributes, perhaps up to 99%.

For the most part, females values a "package" of male attributes and its about 99.99%, with looks being only just a small equation.

The world of men is not supposed to be equal to women's and vice versa.

This is the reason why there's so many handsome men on Sosuave but yet they fail miserably with women and yet an ugly duckling like me is called a beautiful man by women.

And an ugly duckling like Steven Tyler (to us men) is viewed as handsome by plenty of young beautiful women.

 

[Epicenter]

When I say achievements, it doesn't just mean money in the bank.

For example, Steven Tyler, how is it that he fvcks more then you do when he's a 100 X uglier then you?

Take a good look at this picture and imprint this image into ur brain, now chg ur mindset.

View attachment 4516

Sometimes it's even not enough to be Napoleon:

--
Not tonight Napoleon! New documentary claims it was Josephine who spurned him - and had affairs with 'less needy' lovers

• Napoleon has been revealed to be a 'vulnerable' and 'needy' lover
• Historian Andrew Roberts studied letters between emperor and his wife
• Showed Napoleon was starved of affection by Josephine de Beauharnais
• Revealed she preferred to seek solace in the arms of other men

Napoleon – to be shown on BBC2 – insists the emperor was a ‘vulnerable and needy lover’ whose ‘puppy dog’ infatuation with the far more experienced Josephine actually ended up putting her off sex.

New documentary claims Napoleon was spurned by wife

Letters between Napoleon Bonaparte and his wife, Josephine de Beauharnais, reveal that rather than being a megalomaniac the French emperor was a 'vulnerable' and 'needy' lover.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Spaz]

Sometimes it's even not enough to be Napoleon:

--
Not tonight Napoleon! New documentary claims it was Josephine who spurned him - and had affairs with 'less needy' lovers

• Napoleon has been revealed to be a 'vulnerable' and 'needy' lover
• Historian Andrew Roberts studied letters between emperor and his wife
• Showed Napoleon was starved of affection by Josephine de Beauharnais
• Revealed she preferred to seek solace in the arms of other men

Napoleon – to be shown on BBC2 – insists the emperor was a ‘vulnerable and needy lover’ whose ‘puppy dog’ infatuation with the far more experienced Josephine actually ended up putting her off sex.

New documentary claims Napoleon was spurned by wife

Letters between Napoleon Bonaparte and his wife, Josephine de Beauharnais, reveal that rather than being a megalomaniac the French emperor was a 'vulnerable' and 'needy' lover.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Napoleon is a brilliant tactician but he was a needy man that desires love - which is what turns off women.

The cat doesn't want a willing mouse to chase, it wants to experience the thrill of the chase, that's how women are.

All a man's gotta do is be that mouse.

But what makes a man into that mouse? A million little things, from looks, to his ambition, to potential, to talents, to how he carried himself, etc - in essence, it's his frame.

 

[Epicenter]

PUA will never be dead:

----
1. To make a woman feel special, do something special.

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