Is meditation blue pill?

TonyTenner

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Before being red-pilled, which happened about 3 months ago, I used to do a lot of meditation. I've done it for 12 years and also delved into the theory. I was a big fan of Sam Harris and read his book Lying. Lying is an important concept in Buddhism, it's a no-no. Since going RP, I find myself lying more. Or more accurately, avoiding the truth when questioned by a woman. In fact, I would blame Harris' book for going full disclosure with women and - now I realise - coming across as extremely Beta.

Probably the most important concept of Buddhism is compassion. What comes with that, it seems to me, is putting other people first.

Since been red-pilled, I've stopped meditating and digesting meditation theory. I find it harder to square the core concept of the Red Pill - mental point of origin - with the core concepts of Buddhism. I may end up going back to meditation, even if just 10 minutes a day - because it definitely has benefits - but the theories around it seem antithetical to the Red Pill. And both methodologies have the same goal: they aim to make the practitioner happier.

I've been immersed in meditation and Buddhism for 12 years, and Red Pill for 3 months, and undoubtedly the Red Pill is a much better toolset for living a happier life (my favour RP quote is "this isn't so you'll hate women, this is so you won't hate them").

Interested to hear if any others have experience in squaring these 2 methodologies.
 

HyenaPrince

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I don't meditate, nor have I ever meditated. Nonetheless, I believe it's beneficial and helps with improving your mental health. I don't see why it would be Blue Pill to meditate. Isn't meditation about breathing, being in the now and not having thoughts?

Maybe I'm too uninformed regarding this topic. In my opinion meditating is neither Red nor Blue Pill. It's just healthy.
 

TonyTenner

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I don't meditate, nor have I ever meditated. Nonetheless, I believe it's beneficial and helps with improving your mental health. I don't see why it would be Blue Pill to meditate. Isn't meditation about breathing, being in the now and not having thoughts?

Maybe I'm too uninformed regarding this topic. In my opinion meditating is neither Red nor Blue Pill. It's just healthy.
Meditation alone is definitely beneficial. It makes people more rational. It's the theory around it - compassion, putting other people first - that I now see as blue pill. There's a common form of meditation called Metta, which means Loving Kindness, where one focuses on sending benevolent wishes out into the world, including to people you hate. I now see that as actually detrimental.
 

HyenaPrince

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Meditation alone is definitely beneficial. It makes people more rational. It's the theory around it - compassion, putting other people first - that I now see as blue pill. There's a common form of meditation called Metta, which means Loving Kindness, where one focuses on sending benevolent wishes out into the world, including to people you hate. I now see that as actually detrimental.
I understand. That sounds like something that's up to one's interpretation to a certain extent. Being kind to your fellow human beings isn't Blue Pill. Letting people treat you like dirt and not standing up for yourself is. When it comes to sending benevolent wishes towards people you hate, I'd say that's very vague. You'll always have haters who have malicious intentions. The best thing to do is to reach for your goals and stay on your mission. Smile at them and show them your back with integrity. You don't have to kiss their a*ses.

Treat everyone you meet with a low-key level of respect until they show you they don't deserve it. If they deserve it you can calibrate later on.
 

TonyTenner

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I understand. That sounds like something that's up to one's interpretation to a certain extent. Being kind to your fellow human beings isn't Blue Pill. Letting people treat you like dirt and not standing up for yourself is. When it comes to sending benevolent wishes towards people you hate, I'd say that's very vague. You'll always have haters who have malicious intentions. The best thing to do is to reach for your goals and stay on your mission. Smile at them and show them your back with integrity. You don't have to kiss their a*ses.

Treat everyone you meet with a low-key level of respect until they show you they don't deserve it. If they deserve it you can calibrate later on.
Ok that's a good attempt to square the circle. I think the key is to do meditation practice, with the knowledge it will help with mental point of origin, and ignore the theory.
 

Peace and Quiet

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mozarto.o

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The other day I sent a text to a girl that said: "Hey I'm going to the capital, invite me over" (This was an lie to have a reason to talk to her) and found myself thinking the same about lying. I haven´t read Harris but have the same concept.
A possible answer would be that seduction is another world entirely in which the mundane rules don´t apply. (This is from the Art of Seduction).
The girl replied like 6 hours later and I lied again and said I was already on the capital and she asked me if I had gotten any problems getting in due to COVID, to which I said something like:
"No, I went in a taxi" and should have said "No, I came in a taxi"
In the end I don´t think she realized or suspected but it´s not something I´m used to do.
Also keep meditating. Check out the approach from Beginners Mind.
 
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FlexpertHamilton

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I can see how some aspects of Buddhism might impede your success with women, but the whole compassion/empathy aspect is mostly from the Theravāda school of Buddhism which is pretty worthless imo. Zen Buddhism, as far as I know, does not get caught up in such sentimental foolishness.

I also find Sam Harris' work to be fantastic, and he does seem to have a good relationship with his wife, but just be careful how you apply philosophical principles to every day situations.

Either way, I think like anything else you need adapt your behavior around women, even if it conflicts with some of your core beliefs or habits.
 

TheProspect

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I meditate daily, frequently using the Sam Harris Waking Up app to do so, and I've also read Sam's book Lying.

I'm in agreement with Sam's argument against lying for the most part. If I recall, the only time he mentions it's morally permissible to lie is in the scenario of revealing a truth to an individual on their deathbed, or answering a question truthfully, if that truth causes that individual's last moments of life more suffering than having been lied to. I digress.

I think the type of lying you're referring to in the OP is lying by omission, where you leave out material details for the purposes of deception.

Regarding meditation and compassion: Meditation does not necessarily lead to compassion. Sometimes meditation can cause depersonalization, where an individual feels detached from their experience, body, or mind. In this case, an individual can experience compassionate thoughts but feel detached from their mind and so places no significance on them (unidentified with the pattern of thinking called compassion). There are cases where parents, after frequent and heavy meditation, reported feeling less love and compassion for their children because they are less identified with such thoughts. There is a "dark side" to meditation which Sam Harris has released a conversation about on his app, in which he and 2 guests go into detail on this topic... I recommend checking it out.

I think if any form of meditation is bringing out more "blue pill' behaviour in you, you are likely just experiencing more identification with thoughts and feelings that can be grouped as such. For example loving-kindness (metta) meditation, is training to the identification of thoughts of good-will and compassion towards others... This shouldn't be equated to being beta nor a doormat for your enemies, rather metta is a practice allowing you to practice dropping self-destructive emotions such as anger, resentment, grief, etc. in order for you to experience a state of being involving less mental suffering (goodwill, kindness, peace, forgiveness, love).

---

It's important to note that telling the truth is not always equivalent to full disclosure.

Remember: You're on a date, or just casually conversing with a chick... You're not testifying at a murder trial. You are under no obligation to offer full disclosure, and in most cases, being an open book revealing too much information or providing lengthy responses to a question will hurt your chances with them.

Dating shouldn't feel like a job interview or like you're doing a polygraph test--if a chick asks you question, reply honestly with wit and charm... if that means your answer is vague, ambiguous, and offers little detail, then so be it... if she's a cool chick she'll enjoy the banter and the mystery you give off, and it might even bug her in a good way... if she becomes bratty or negative, then she's probably not someone you want to be around. Obviously, context matters and you'd respond differently to questions asked by your LTR girlfriend than you would a chick you've known for only two dates.

So a TL;DR to your question would be, no, meditation is not "blue pill". I actually think meditation helps me from making impulsive "blue pill" decisions, leaving me with more room to apply "red pill" knowledge and thus earn me better results.
 

BackInTheGame78

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Meditation alone is definitely beneficial. It makes people more rational. It's the theory around it - compassion, putting other people first - that I now see as blue pill. There's a common form of meditation called Metta, which means Loving Kindness, where one focuses on sending benevolent wishes out into the world, including to people you hate. I now see that as actually detrimental.
Why do so many people mistakenly equate being nice with having no self respect and allowing themselves to be doormats?

Being nice in and of itself is a good thing. If a person chooses to be a doormat and not stand up for themself that has nothing to do with being nicem
 

metalwater

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Why do so many people mistakenly equate being nice with having no self respect and allowing themselves to be doormats?

Being nice in and of itself is a good thing. If a person chooses to be a doormat and not stand up for themself that has nothing to do with being nicem

kindness is from strength.
 

Jack12345

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Before being red-pilled, which happened about 3 months ago, I used to do a lot of meditation. I've done it for 12 years and also delved into the theory. I was a big fan of Sam Harris and read his book Lying. Lying is an important concept in Buddhism, it's a no-no. Since going RP, I find myself lying more. Or more accurately, avoiding the truth when questioned by a woman. In fact, I would blame Harris' book for going full disclosure with women and - now I realise - coming across as extremely Beta.

Probably the most important concept of Buddhism is compassion. What comes with that, it seems to me, is putting other people first.

Since been red-pilled, I've stopped meditating and digesting meditation theory. I find it harder to square the core concept of the Red Pill - mental point of origin - with the core concepts of Buddhism. I may end up going back to meditation, even if just 10 minutes a day - because it definitely has benefits - but the theories around it seem antithetical to the Red Pill. And both methodologies have the same goal: they aim to make the practitioner happier.

I've been immersed in meditation and Buddhism for 12 years, and Red Pill for 3 months, and undoubtedly the Red Pill is a much better toolset for living a happier life (my favour RP quote is "this isn't so you'll hate women, this is so you won't hate them").

Interested to hear if any others have experience in squaring these 2 methodologies.
Try to think about meditation like martial arts and no some spiritual thing. This is about the function not the bs the gurus promote
 

TonyTenner

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I meditate daily, frequently using the Sam Harris Waking Up app to do so, and I've also read Sam's book Lying.

I'm in agreement with Sam's argument against lying for the most part. If I recall, the only time he mentions it's morally permissible to lie is in the scenario of revealing a truth to an individual on their deathbed, or answering a question truthfully, if that truth causes that individual's last moments of life more suffering than having been lied to. I digress.

I think the type of lying you're referring to in the OP is lying by omission, where you leave out material details for the purposes of deception.

Regarding meditation and compassion: Meditation does not necessarily lead to compassion. Sometimes meditation can cause depersonalization, where an individual feels detached from their experience, body, or mind. In this case, an individual can experience compassionate thoughts but feel detached from their mind and so places no significance on them (unidentified with the pattern of thinking called compassion). There are cases where parents, after frequent and heavy meditation, reported feeling less love and compassion for their children because they are less identified with such thoughts. There is a "dark side" to meditation which Sam Harris has released a conversation about on his app, in which he and 2 guests go into detail on this topic... I recommend checking it out.

I think if any form of meditation is bringing out more "blue pill' behaviour in you, you are likely just experiencing more identification with thoughts and feelings that can be grouped as such. For example loving-kindness (metta) meditation, is training to the identification of thoughts of good-will and compassion towards others... This shouldn't be equated to being beta nor a doormat for your enemies, rather metta is a practice allowing you to practice dropping self-destructive emotions such as anger, resentment, grief, etc. in order for you to experience a state of being involving less mental suffering (goodwill, kindness, peace, forgiveness, love).

---

It's important to note that telling the truth is not always equivalent to full disclosure.

Remember: You're on a date, or just casually conversing with a chick... You're not testifying at a murder trial. You are under no obligation to offer full disclosure, and in most cases, being an open book revealing too much information or providing lengthy responses to a question will hurt your chances with them.

Dating shouldn't feel like a job interview or like you're doing a polygraph test--if a chick asks you question, reply honestly with wit and charm... if that means your answer is vague, ambiguous, and offers little detail, then so be it... if she's a cool chick she'll enjoy the banter and the mystery you give off, and it might even bug her in a good way... if she becomes bratty or negative, then she's probably not someone you want to be around. Obviously, context matters and you'd respond differently to questions asked by your LTR girlfriend than you would a chick you've known for only two dates.

So a TL;DR to your question would be, no, meditation is not "blue pill". I actually think meditation helps me from making impulsive "blue pill" decisions, leaving me with more room to apply "red pill" knowledge and thus earn me better results.
I believe Harris argues it is only permissible to lie when facing an aggressor and when the lie can be used as a defence weapon. Providing the enemy with false information in war is an example.

I agree with your point that meditation will help red pill conditioning because it helps one controls ones impulses. I do intend going back to the practice (I too use the Waking Up app) but dropping the theory part.

Re. full disclosure, I spent many years going full disclosure on dates, part of which I blame on Harris' book Lying, and partly on Mark Manson's well-intentioned but in hindsight dangerously blue-pill book book Models. I cringe at the thought now. Still love Harris though;)
 

TonyTenner

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Why do so many people mistakenly equate being nice with having no self respect and allowing themselves to be doormats?

Being nice in and of itself is a good thing. If a person chooses to be a doormat and not stand up for themself that has nothing to do with being nicem
I do think there is a submission component to some meditation theory. Methods like Metta actually involve picturing your enemy and wishing them love. Robert Greene would have a thing or two to say about that.
 

TonyTenner

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No it is not. And meditating doesn't kean sitting legs crossed with eyes closed like a buddha statue.
You can meditate anywhere at anytime
I know. It's possible to meditate with a jackhammer going full pelt beside your head. It's some of the theory I'm now less keen on since being RPed.
 

If you currently have too many women chasing you, calling you, harassing you, knocking on your door at 2 o'clock in the morning... then I have the simple solution for you.

Just read my free ebook 22 Rules for Massive Success With Women and do the opposite of what I recommend.

This will quickly drive all women away from you.

And you will be able to relax and to live your life in peace and quiet.

TonyTenner

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I don't think that's what meant by compassion.
Actually I do think I have misunderstood that concept. I was researching compassion on Tiny Buddha for clarity and came across this article. As you can see, Buddhism actually aligns nicely with the RP:

“Be there for others, but never leave yourself behind.” ~Dodinsky

Sometimes, when we’re feeling stressed and running around taking care of everybody else, the healthiest thing we can do is to stop and consider how we can take care of ourselves.

While this seems obvious to some people, many of us struggle with the idea of putting ourselves first. We were raised to think we should always put others before ourselves and ignore our own needs—that it is somehow arrogant or self-centered, and not a nice thing to do.

So, why is self-care not held in high regard as the essential practice that it is for our well-being?

Here, I take a look at some misconceptions that hold us back from looking after the most important person in our lives, explore why self-care is better for others around us, and share my own list of self-care commitments, as somebody who has struggled with this in the past.

1. We think self-care means being selfish.
Taking care of ourselves is the opposite of being selfish, as it strengthens us and enables us to support our loved ones better. We are no use to anyone if our energy is depleted because we have given every last bit of it away. Self-care is an antidote to stress, as it builds resilience so we can better cope with challenges.

Just think how they tell us to put on our oxygen mask first on an airplane before we help others. Yes, absolutely support others, but nurture yourself first.

2. We confuse “rescuing” with caring.
We often sacrifice self-care because we’re too busy trying to save everyone else. But people have to learn their own lessons in life, however painful that is. Who are you to decide that you know what is right for them? Now that is selfish, as it’s based on your own desires for them, which may not truly be in their best interests.

The way we can really help is to focus on ourselves and stop trying to run others’ lives. While we think we’re caring by “rescuing” them from unpleasant experiences in their lives, we are denying them the opportunity to face their own challenges, and grow stronger or learn a lesson from doing so.

This has been a hard truth for me to face, as I always thought I was being nice and caring. It’s even tougher to accept now that a close family member of mine is very ill, mostly caused by their own actions. I have an overwhelming desire to help, and have tried on numerous occasions, but I now realize that they have to want to change.

By rescuing them every time, out of what we believe is love, the rest of the family are enabling this person to stay feeling helpless, and we are burning ourselves out with stress.

I don’t mean we should never help people, but there is a difference between providing support for somebody who asks and taking it upon ourselves to save somebody and make their life turn out in a way that we think it should.

3. We are accustomed to relationships based on neediness, not real love.
We often fall in love with the idea of being in love, because we watch Hollywood films that portray love as dramatic and needing to be with somebody 24/7.

When we give from this place, we give too much, because we believe we have to die for that person and other such dramatic statements. As Ernest Hemmingway wrote in Men Without Women, “The most painful thing is losing yourself in the process of loving someone too much and forgetting that you are special too.”

Instead of spending our every waking hour thinking about that other person and forgetting ourselves, we (and our partners!) would be better served by focusing on ourselves. This way, we’ll be able to give from a place of wholeness, without expecting anything in return or feeling resentful.

As Rollo May said, “Love is generally confused with dependence; but in point of fact, you can only love in proportion to your capacity for independence.” If we take care of ourselves, we are more independent, less needy of getting attention or affection, and more capable of truly connecting with another human being.

4. We don’t realize we teach people how to treat us.
We teach people how to treat us by our own actions and attitude toward ourselves. By putting signs out there that you are a rescuer and will sacrifice yourself to help others, you attract the sort of people who want to be rescued and for whom it has to be all about them—not a balanced relationship.

Then, you have made it a self-fulfilling prophecy, by effectively bringing about what you always complain that you attract: people who take advantage of your good nature.

Here, it is useful to question whether they have really taken everything we have or if we have voluntarily given it all to them. Yes, they have played a part, but we can’t change them. We only have control over our own actions, so what part did we play?

Also, although this can be hard to hear, there is always a pay-off for us. Is it that you always get to be the “nice guy” or the “victim”? Take a long hard look now…

5. We expect others to take care of us.
While we might believe that our actions are purely altruistic and caring, are we actually expecting something in return?

I have previously been guilty of giving everything and believing I was being nice, but then feeling resentful when they inevitably didn’t give back in equal measure.

I complained to my friends that this or that person didn’t give me enough (and, in some cases, I wouldn’t have been wrong!) It’s easy to complain about what others aren’t doing. It’s hard to accept that we have chosen to give all our love to them and keep none for ourselves, expecting them to fill a gap they couldn’t fill, because it was our own self-esteem that was missing.

Yes, somebody may take advantage of your caring nature, but if you lie down to be walked on, you can’t be surprised when people treat you like a doormat. Your self-care is your responsibility, nobody else’s.

6. We don’t realize our worth.
Ultimately, it boils down to the fact that we think others are worth more than us. If we are confident in our love for ourselves and treat ourselves as if we are worthy, then that is what we will attract back.

Yes, I’m afraid it comes down to that whole self-love thing again! There is a reason why this is a cliché, though, because the key to meaningful relationships really is to love ourselves first.

 
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