Should we de-fund/abolish the police?

[user43770]

This is a misconception. “Abolish the police” refers to dismantling the current police department and starting over. All are fired and have to reapply. It was already done in Camden, NJ when it was deemed their police department was too corrupt to be salvageable. It does not mean “police should not exist.”

I'm all for it. Do it.

 

[user43770]

As if white people haven't had enough shake downs?

 

[user43770]

Black people have had a leg up for the past 30 years. Didn't change much.

What do you demand now?

 

[Xenom0rph]

Rioters and looters want to abolish the police....????..... Why would they want that....????...

 

[Seductions_Mad_Scientist]

That's the new battle cry of the left....

Should we defund/abolish the police?

Let's put it this way. No.

Should we voluntarily shift the supply of law enforcement resources downwards and expect a similar level of quality?

Would that work in most other cases? reducing funds to an area and expect an increase or even stabilization of quality of work?

Maybe I'm naive but I just don't think so.

We need better training, better legislative procedures, mandatory reviews of current law enforcement policy region by region, better mental health and social support systems, better economic conditions for the lowest 20% of earners and a whole bunch of other things. This would realistically cost some multiple of a billion per year to do if not more.

reducing funds to police creates a resource crunch for already a miserably preparred police force.

What if we mandated an extra year of schooling teaching only critical thinking skills whatever it costs? what would the downstream effects of a x% increase in general quality of thought?

None of these problems get solved 1 dimensionally. Imagine a world with 0 police? what about 50% of people as police? Some middle point is ideal.

When has a voluntary decrease in resources ever led to an increase in quality before?

 

[Augustus_McCrae]

Consider that almost every University and government institution has been infiltrated and taken over by socialism. One of the few exceptions have been the police force. When that is taken into account, the probable reason why this is happening is not a mystery.

-Augustus-

 

[user43770]

Consider that almost every University and government institution has been infiltrated and taken over by socialism. One of the few exceptions have been the police force. When that is taken into account, the probable reason why this is happening is not a mystery.

-Augustus-

Consider that every college is consumed with mAh socialism. They've been preaching it for years.

 

[user43770]

I know, I was trying to see how "socialist" some people here are. A lot of posters think government run programs are evil, but the police are an exception for some reason. Doesn't make any difference to me, really...I try to steer clear of "-isms."

What do you think Harry Browne would say about these riots?

 

[user43770]

What do you think Harry Browne would say about these riots?

I'm willing to bet he would be bowing down, washing feet like a b1tch

 

[AttackFormation]

Consider that almost every University and government institution has been infiltrated and taken over by socialism. One of the few exceptions have been the police force. When that is taken into account, the probable reason why this is happening is not a mystery.

-Augustus-

What is socialism according to you?

 

[Augustus_McCrae]

What is socialism according to you?

The Road to Serfdom - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

-Augustus-

 

[Augustus_McCrae]

What is socialism according to you?

I see that you are from Sweden. What is the tax percentage for someone who makes the equivalent of $100,000 US dollars per year?

-Augustus-

 

[AttackFormation]

The Road to Serfdom - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

-Augustus-

Aha.. so you simply mean "statism" and "totalitarianism". Do you think libertarian socialists are statists or totalitarians?

I see that you are from Sweden. What is the tax percentage for someone who makes the equivalent of $100,000 US dollars per year?

-Augustus-

It would be 51% of their income. Sweden has a very low income inequality, but a very high wealth inequality - #9th most unequal in the world in 2018, whereas the US is at #11.

 

[Augustus_McCrae]

Aha.. so you simply mean "statism" and "totalitarianism". Do you think libertarian socialists are statists or totalitarians?



It would be 51% of their income. Sweden has a very low income inequality, but a very high wealth inequality - #9th most unequal in the world in 2018, whereas the US is at #11.

Contrary to some sources on the Internet, the term “libertarian socialist“ is an oxymoron.

Why do you mention “income inequality“ and “wealth inequality“?

-Augustus-

 

[zekko]

Would that work in most other cases? reducing funds to an area and expect an increase or even stabilization of quality of work?

That's a good point. If they want to increase the quality of police work, they should increase funding, not decrease it. If you're not happy wit the way your car is running, buying a cheaper one is not usually the answer.

A lot of these cases where cops use deadly force are the result of them being or feeling threatened. When I grew up, police went out with a partner. Now they're sent out to deal with criminals on their own. Having a partner would decrease the likelihood that the would have to use deadly force, and have someone to help keep them accountable.

3) That business owners who are victims of looting should not rely on police for protection.

Some of the owners who tried to protect their businesses from rioters were killed or beaten nearly to death. But even if the police were willing to help, many of the mayors had ordered them to stand down.

5 people said "YES" ???

TyTe'EyEz yes vote was in the spirit of "This is what they want, give it to them, and let them live with the consequences". If Minneapolis became a smoldering hole, would we really miss it? Look at all the trouble they've caused. Maybe they could turn it into a new tourist site, the "Grand Canyon of the Midwest".

 

[EyeBRollin]

It would be 51% of their income. Sweden has a very low income inequality, but a very high wealth inequality - #9th most unequal in the world in 2018, whereas the US is at #11.

Just to be clear -

Is that 51% marginal tax rate (51% on every $1 over $100,000)?

or

51% effective tax rate ($100,000 nets only $49,000 total in the course of the year)?

 

[Augustus_McCrae]

Aha.. so you simply mean "statism" and "totalitarianism". Do you think libertarian socialists are statists or totalitarians?



It would be 51% of their income. Sweden has a very low income inequality, but a very high wealth inequality - #9th most unequal in the world in 2018, whereas the US is at #11.

Do you believe that people who make a greater income should be taxed more (Percentagewise) ? And if so, why?

-Augustus-

 

[AttackFormation]

Contrary to some sources on the Internet, the term “libertarian socialist“ is an oxymoron.

Why do you mention “income inequality“ and “wealth inequality“?

-Augustus-

"One gratifying aspect of our rise to some prominence is that for the first time in my memory, we, "our side," had captured a crucial word from the enemy ... "Libertarians" ... had long been simply a polite word for anti-private property left-wing anarchists, either of the communist or syndicalist variety. But now we had taken it over" - Murray Rothbard, The Betrayal of the American Right.

"The use of the term libertarian to describe a new set of political positions has been traced to the French cognate libertaire, coined in a letter French libertarian communist Joseph Déjacque wrote to mutualist Pierre-Joseph Proudhon in 1857." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism#Etymology

"In the United States, libertarianism was popularized as a synonym for liberalism in May 1955 by writer Dean Russell, a colleague of Leonard Read and a classical liberal himself. Russell justified the choice of the term as follows: ..." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism#Etymology

Do you think this is fake history?

Would you concede that "libertarianism" is really divided into left-libertarianism and right-libertarianism as along this image, or do you think the left-libertarians are still an "oxymoron" because you define them to be?

Just to be clear -

Is that 51% marginal tax rate (51% on every $1 over $100,000)?

or

51% effective tax rate ($100,000 nets only $49,000 total in the course of the year)?

Yeah forgot to mention that: it's a marginal rate, although the floor is lower than 100 000$.

 

[Augustus_McCrae]

"One gratifying aspect of our rise to some prominence is that for the first time in my memory, we, "our side," had captured a crucial word from the enemy ... "Libertarians" ... had long been simply a polite word for anti-private property left-wing anarchists, either of the communist or syndicalist variety. But now we had taken it over" - Murray Rothbard, The Betrayal of the American Right.

"The use of the term libertarian to describe a new set of political positions has been traced to the French cognate libertaire, coined in a letter French libertarian communist Joseph Déjacque wrote to mutualist Pierre-Joseph Proudhon in 1857." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism#Etymology

"In the United States, libertarianism was popularized as a synonym for liberalism in May 1955 by writer Dean Russell, a colleague of Leonard Read and a classical liberal himself. Russell justified the choice of the term as follows: ..." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism#Etymology

Do you think this is fake history?

Would you concede that "libertarianism" is really divided into left-libertarianism and right-libertarianism as along this image, or do you think the left-libertarians are still an "oxymoron" because you define them to be?

View attachment 4263



Yeah forgot to mention that: it's a marginal rate, although the floor is lower than 100 000$.

The definition of libertarianism to which I am referring to involves the following: A political philosophy that upholds individual liberty as a core principle. Maximum freedom and autonomy, freedom of choice, voluntary association, and individual judgment. Restriction of coercive social institutions and limited state power.

-Augustus-

 

[AttackFormation]

Do you believe that people who make a greater income should be taxed more (Percentagewise) ? And if so, why?

-Augustus-

I'm not that concerned over whether "income" is taxed at a flat or progressive rate.

I am concerned about dividing "income" into what used to be called earned income and unearned income - the concept of economic rent arising from platform monopolies, barriers to entry (but also to exit, especially for individuals' choices), anticompetitive practices, externalities (like pollution and burnout, or benefitting from public infrastructure and spending), market cornering (such as in real estate, particularly since land is a fixed and unevenly valuable supply), privatized natural monopolies (like commercial banking that creates the money supply), and inheritances that source back to acts of violence (such as privatization by land enclosure, or income from slavery).

I don't think capitalism is a desirable form of government, but I think a progressive implementation of economic democracy is the way to solve that, not "taxation of income". In other words, I'm a left-libertarian.