The *No Contact* Challenge! ( Read this if you just got dumped)

[bcude]

so I’ve been around 6 months of complete no contact since the second she broke up with me. We share a lot of mutual friends and I’ve barely uttered a peep to them about the break up and let them find out on their own. About a week ago she texted me for the first time sending condolences about a family member that passed away. I Just said much appreciated. Then she asked how I’m doing and what not and I kept it light but very brief and very short and made sure it was less than a five min exchange. I dk I’m kinda a little pissed she even hit me up like that because I can’t not respond to someone wanting to pay thier respects to a serious situation like that right? Anyways I plan on continuing no contact (even though I guess I broke it under circumstances).

Hey Mike,
You also had the option to blatantly ignore her. That's what No Contact really is, except if you're entertaining something with her again in the future. If so, i think it was handled well. I understand your frustration but you've to realise when women break up they more often than not try to hit you up indirectly because of fear and to avoid rejection, even if they just wanna see how you're doing and get some validation that you still like her. So it doesn't surprise me that she "used" this opportunity to hit you up to check the temperature.
For example, my ex pretended to have butt dialed me by mistake 4 months later, which was so improbable that i found it hilarious which i think she noticed but i saw it for what it was and then the same occured. She wanted to know everything about me, which was her plan all along.

You can use your anger to fuel getting over her, but in the end it will only hurt yourself being pissed about something nonsensical like that.

 

[Mike41090]

Hey Mike,
You also had the option to blatantly ignore her. That's what No Contact really is, except if you're entertaining something with her again in the future. If so, i think it was handled well. I understand your frustration but you've to realise when women break up they more often than not try to hit you up indirectly because of fear and to avoid rejection, even if they just wanna see how you're doing and get some validation that you still like her. So it doesn't surprise me that she "used" this opportunity to hit you up to check the temperature.
For example, my ex pretended to have butt dialed me by mistake 4 months later, which was so improbable that i found it hilarious which i think she noticed but i saw it for what it was and then the same occured. She wanted to know everything about me, which was her plan all along.

You can use your anger to fuel getting over her, but in the end it will only hurt yourself being pissed about something nonsensical like that.

Yeah I felt like I handled it well. It kinda sucks though because this summer, once everything presumeably opens back up, I will most likely run into her at local spots since it’s a small neighborhood. Really would prefer to never see her again and her not see me but what are ya gonna do right?

 

[RyanMan]

So I’ve been doing this myself (I decided to give myself 6 months before I even saw this thread) as a choice since my last girlfriend split up with me.

Bit of background... We’d been going out several months, got on great & the sex was amazing. Looking back now, I can see the problems were:

A) She’d been single a long time & enjoyed a lot of her own time

B) My main previous girlfriend before her had criticised me for not making enough effort to see her, so I decided I wouldn’t make that mistake this time (BIG mistake! I ‘thought’ I was making the effort to see her more, but looking back now it came across as I was always wanting to see her)

C) I’d been recently laid off & had a lot of free time while I set up my new Business, so I thought I’d make the effort to see her now as I’d be so busy later (again, likely looked clingy!)

I said we should split up in December as she was basically too busy to see me, hoping she’d use that as a spur for her to want me properly. She agreed, not what I wanted to hear ha! She said she was too busy for dating & I said let’s see how things are in the new year.

In the meantime I dated other women, slept with a few but realised I still missed her. We went out again early Feb, had sex but afterwards she said the same, didn’t want anything proper at the time.

Carried on other women still, messaged her mid-March as I had tickets for a gin festival where she said it sounds fun, but she is in early stages of a relationship with a guy she knew & it just happened, so didn’t think it’d be appropriate (if she’s really seeing someone or just saying it who knows, but he definitely wasn’t the reason we split up & would not have been around till later)

My sister was pretty ill at the time so I was unfortunately emotionally fragile at the time, & stupidly told her I was crushed (I know, I know!), but not that my sister was ill. She said the sex was amazing but she couldn’t put her finger on why we hadn’t clicked.

I told her it was because I appeared too clingy, which is awkward because I’m not like that.
We agreed we should stay friends, and I figured I’d give myself 6 weeks to sort my **** out & give her enough time to miss me.

Anyway more than 2 months have just gone by on Sun & I haven’t contacted her, but 2 months to the date (last Sun) she deleted me from her Facebook, which I’ll be honest really hurt.

We never actually communicated on Facebook / liked each other’s posts etc, but I kinda wanted her to see how good my life was going ha. What would you all do now?

She’s not blocked me, we’re still friends on whatsapp but I’m pretty hurt. My sister has since died so ive been upset there, but I’ve never been more popular with women. I slept with one the other night, but I was still thinking about my ex then.

I feel I’m doing everything I should but don’t feel any better, I still miss her. Would you still leave it till October time to message, or send a brief funny ping text now? I’m inclined to leave it till the end of the year, but wanted you guys to weigh in with the Coronavirus lockdown as it’s changed dating habits here in the UK especially.

Additionally I have her mates email as she offered to get me a job at her place in Jan. Should I
A) Not message her at all
B) Ask if there’s jobs available and randomly at the end, how’s Clare (my ex)
C) Ask about jobs & make small talk but not mention the ex at all

I have never thought to speak to an ex’s mate before (and never would if it was left to me!), but as I have the details I wondered if any of you pro’s have any thoughts of that?

I’m just wondering the best way forward for me now basically. If we do go out again I know exactly what to do right this time, it’s just letting enough time go by to try and reset things / make her remember my positives & if she is single now ha.

 

[Mike41090]

So I’ve been doing this myself (I decided to give myself 6 months before I even saw this thread) as a choice since my last girlfriend split up with me.

Bit of background... We’d been going out several months, got on great & the sex was amazing. Looking back now, I can see the problems were:

A) She’d been single a long time & enjoyed a lot of her own time

B) My main previous girlfriend before her had criticised me for not making enough effort to see her, so I decided I wouldn’t make that mistake this time (BIG mistake! I ‘thought’ I was making the effort to see her more, but looking back now it came across as I was always wanting to see her)

C) I’d been recently laid off & had a lot of free time while I set up my new Business, so I thought I’d make the effort to see her now as I’d be so busy later (again, likely looked clingy!)

I said we should split up in December as she was basically too busy to see me, hoping she’d use that as a spur for her to want me properly. She agreed, not what I wanted to hear ha! She said she was too busy for dating & I said let’s see how things are in the new year.

In the meantime I dated other women, slept with a few but realised I still missed her. We went out again early Feb, had sex but afterwards she said the same, didn’t want anything proper at the time.

Carried on other women still, messaged her mid-March as I had tickets for a gin festival where she said it sounds fun, but she is in early stages of a relationship with a guy she knew & it just happened, so didn’t think it’d be appropriate (if she’s really seeing someone or just saying it who knows, but he definitely wasn’t the reason we split up & would not have been around till later)

My sister was pretty ill at the time so I was unfortunately emotionally fragile at the time, & stupidly told her I was crushed (I know, I know!), but not that my sister was ill. She said the sex was amazing but she couldn’t put her finger on why we hadn’t clicked.

I told her it was because I appeared too clingy, which is awkward because I’m not like that.
We agreed we should stay friends, and I figured I’d give myself 6 weeks to sort my **** out & give her enough time to miss me.

Anyway more than 2 months have just gone by on Sun & I haven’t contacted her, but 2 months to the date (last Sun) she deleted me from her Facebook, which I’ll be honest really hurt.

We never actually communicated on Facebook / liked each other’s posts etc, but I kinda wanted her to see how good my life was going ha. What would you all do now?

She’s not blocked me, we’re still friends on whatsapp but I’m pretty hurt. My sister has since died so ive been upset there, but I’ve never been more popular with women. I slept with one the other night, but I was still thinking about my ex then.

I feel I’m doing everything I should but don’t feel any better, I still miss her. Would you still leave it till October time to message, or send a brief funny ping text now? I’m inclined to leave it till the end of the year, but wanted you guys to weigh in with the Coronavirus lockdown as it’s changed dating habits here in the UK especially.

Additionally I have her mates email as she offered to get me a job at her place in Jan. Should I
A) Not message her at all
B) Ask if there’s jobs available and randomly at the end, how’s Clare (my ex)
C) Ask about jobs & make small talk but not mention the ex at all

I have never thought to speak to an ex’s mate before (and never would if it was left to me!), but as I have the details I wondered if any of you pro’s have any thoughts of that?

I’m just wondering the best way forward for me now basically. If we do go out again I know exactly what to do right this time, it’s just letting enough time go by to try and reset things / make her remember my positives & if she is single now ha.

Seems like low interest dude to be honest. The only way she’d ever come back to you is if you not reach out to her ever. She would have to be the one to reach out to you. And even then, it’s almost always to check your temperature. Happened to me with a lot of girls I’ve dumped and been dumped by. Crazy how a lot of them are very similar in this manner. Just my two cents

 

[RyanMan]

Seems like low interest dude to be honest. The only way she’d ever come back to you is if you not reach out to her ever. She would have to be the one to reach out to you. And even then, it’s almost always to check your temperature. Happened to me with a lot of girls I’ve dumped and been dumped by. Crazy how a lot of them are very similar in this manner. Just my two cents

Hey, you’re right I suppose it could be that. I mean I never got that impression when we went out, in fact she seemed pretty keen but she had just started a new job as well and was working away, she genuinely seemed pretty busy. And even when we weren’t going out in December/Jan she was still texting me then just in general talk.

Like you say, you think I should leave it & see if she messages me at some point (which I could see), another ex did that a few days back actually!

I’m not so much bothered by us not talking right now even if I’m missing her, I’m just trying to work out if I can take advantage of this once in a lifetime Coronavirus lockdown & ping now (especially as she’s been unable to go out too) or wait another 6 months or so (IF I’m single then)

 

[Mike41090]

Hey, you’re right I suppose it could be that. I mean I never got that impression when we went out, in fact she seemed pretty keen but she had just started a new job as well and was working away, she genuinely seemed pretty busy. And even when we weren’t going out in December/Jan she was still texting me then just in general talk.

I’m not so much bothered by us not talking right now even if I’m missing her, I’m just trying to work out if I should ping now & if I can take advantage of this Coronavirus lockdown or in 6 months (IF I’m single then)

Like you say, you think I should leave it & see if she messages me at some point (which I could see), another ex did that a few weeks back actually!

You should absolutely not contact her. My ex broke up with me six months ago, I also dated her a few years ago as well. After both break ups I’ve been consistently going to the gym 6x a week, am very cut and borderline ripped (I just need to eat some more to put on a little bit of more muscle- 5’11 180 lbs). Every time she dumped me I’ve basically had a fire inside of me to be the best I can be, but it will never be enough, I’m simply not her long term ideal type. The worst part is I always get with better looking girls after we break up that are very much into me but this ex is legit glued to my brain like you have no idea lol. It took me this long to realize that she just isn’t as into me as I would like her to be. And that is super hard to accept because I personally feel like I check any girls check box, but that is very unrealistic. This one is going to be very hard to let go but I know it’s the right move. And I believe you know letting this one go is the right move as well but your scared of feeling emotionally uncomfortable in my opinion, because that’s what I’m feeling at the moment too to be honest. My dignity and self respect REFUSES to reach out to her. I will not give her the benefit of the doubt of seeing me grovel or seem bent outta shape about her. I do not want to exist in her world whatsoever. And I recommend you do the same for your own good.

 

[Mike41090]

You should absolutely not contact her. My ex broke up with me six months ago, I also dated her a few years ago as well. After both break ups I’ve been consistently going to the gym 6x a week, am very cut and borderline ripped (I just need to eat some more to put on a little bit of more muscle- 5’11 180 lbs). Every time she dumped me I’ve basically had a fire inside of me to be the best I can be, but it will never be enough, I’m simply not her long term ideal type. The worst part is I always get with better looking girls after we break up that are very much into me but this ex is legit glued to my brain like you have no idea lol. It took me this long to realize that she just isn’t as into me as I would like her to be. And that is super hard to accept because I personally feel like I check any girls check box, but that is very unrealistic. This one is going to be very hard to let go but I know it’s the right move. And I believe you know letting this one go is the right move as well but your scared of feeling emotionally uncomfortable in my opinion, because that’s what I’m feeling at the moment too to be honest. My dignity and self respect REFUSES to reach out to her. I will not give her the benefit of the doubt of seeing me grovel or seem bent outta shape about her. I do not want to exist in her world whatsoever. And I recommend you do the same for your own good.

Do not wait on this girl to reach out. She knows what your about and will reach out if she wants. Just
Move on

 

[bcude]

Hey RyanMan,
You should be grieving your sister, not thinking about women right now tbh.
This one is just not interested in you unfortunately.

She said she was too busy for dating & I said let’s see how things are in the new year.

This means she's busy to date YOU in particular. Do you think she would be saying the same to Brad Pitt? No, an interested woman is too busy dating YOU if anyone else is asking anything.

messaged her mid-March as I had tickets for a gin festival where she said it sounds fun, but she is in early stages of a relationship with a guy she knew

And here we have the confirmation that she suddenly wasn't too busy to date another guy.

Anyway more than 2 months have just gone by on Sun & I haven’t contacted her, but 2 months to the date (last Sun) she deleted me from her Facebook, which I’ll be honest really hurt.

Eventhough facebook is not important, especially for men.
This is just sending a clear message to you.

Just leave her be for now and if she'll come to you then you're in a better position to make something happen.
It's perfectly normal to miss her, it will get better with time. Realise that rejection breeds obsession and that we tend to want things that we can't have, especially when feelings are involved.

 

[RyanMan]

Hey RyanMan,
You should be grieving your sister, not thinking about women right now tbh.
This one is just not interested in you unfortunately.


This means she's busy to date YOU in particular. Do you think she would be saying the same to Brad Pitt? No, an interested woman is too busy dating YOU if anyone else is asking anything.


And here we have the confirmation that she suddenly wasn't too busy to date another guy.



Eventhough facebook is not important, especially for men.
This is just sending a clear message to you.

Just leave her be for now and if she'll come to you then you're in a better position to make something happen.
It's perfectly normal to miss her, it will get better with time. Realise that rejection breeds obsession and that we tend to want things that we can't have, especially when feelings are involved.

Thanks for the advice guys, kinda what I thought but deep down you always want to hear what you want to be told, you know. It’s rather ironic as one of the women I’ve dated since used to date one of the biggest pop stars in the UK (& a former England football captain, till she found out he was married!), it really opened my eyes to my self worth.

Im not in a good place right now with what happened to my sister like you say, I haven’t even processed it or started to grieve properly yet (and kinda hoped focusing on my ex meant I wouldn’t have to confront the fact I haven’t even been able to get my head round my sister not being here any more)

I honestly think if I leave things she will reach out, though when I don’t know. And I’m certainly not waiting for her, I’m focusing on myself in the meantime (just hoped I could use this lockdown to my advantage somehow!)

Thanks again for listening guys, it means a lot! And if anyone else has any more tips I’d love to hear them.

 

[bcude]

Your head seems to be in the right place RyanMan. I'm no expert in grieving but i can quite comfortably say that avoiding such a painful loss is not the right way, it will re-surface when you least expect it. Allow yourself to be sad and go through the different stages of grief and close the chapter properly. You will be better off in the long run.

And back to your initial question. Space and time work the best on women to make them wonder about you, question themselves etc. eventhough it doesn't make sense to distance yourself when you care for someone, but be confident in that.

 

[RyanMan]

Your head seems to be in the right place RyanMan. I'm no expert in grieving but i can quite comfortably say that avoiding such a painful loss is not the right way, it will re-surface when you least expect it. Allow yourself to be sad and go through the different stages of grief and close the chapter properly. You will be better off in the long run.

And back to your initial question. Space and time work the best on women to make them wonder about you, question themselves etc. eventhough it doesn't make sense to distance yourself when you care for someone, but be confident in that.

Thanks SO much for this, these are all great reminders and just what I needed to hear. The fact I’m in lockdown and can’t see the rest of my family is making it even harder, but it’s genuinely a help to remind me to grieve for her.

And I’m so relieved you said that about my ex as well! I was only worried there may have been some opportunity I’d missed almost with this lockdown & knew you guys would know the right things. Truthfully I don’t even want to see her for a while longer while I keep working on myself. In the past I would have reacted rashly & emotionally, the fact I planned to leave it ‘at least’ 6 months even before seeing this thread makes me feel I’m finally growing as a person. Thanks again!

 

[Mike41090]

Thanks SO much for this, these are all great reminders and just what I needed to hear. The fact I’m in lockdown and can’t see the rest of my family is making it even harder, but it’s genuinely a help to remind me to grieve for her.

And I’m so relieved you said that about my ex as well! I was only worried there may have been some opportunity I’d missed almost with this lockdown & knew you guys would know the right things. Truthfully I don’t even want to see her for a while longer while I keep working on myself. In the past I would have reacted rashly & emotionally, the fact I planned to leave it ‘at least’ 6 months even before seeing this thread makes me feel I’m finally growing as a person. Thanks again!

Good to hear dude. When I go no contact on a female I actually find it, hmmmm, interesting? What I mean is in regards of testing my dignity and emotional stability. I have friends that lash out against ex’s(some from even years ago) to this day and it’s flat out embarrassing. When I do no contact, it makes me feel emotional stabile compared to the majority of the male population if you catch my drift. When I bring up the fact to some of my guy friends that I haven’t seen or spoke to my ex since, they’re like blown away. And I’m basically like “ dude, she said she doesn’t want to be with me anymore. What else is there to say or do lol”?

 

[Mike41090]

Good to hear dude. When I go no contact on a female I actually find it, hmmmm, interesting? What I mean is in regards of testing my dignity and emotional stability. I have friends that lash out against ex’s(some from even years ago) to this day and it’s flat out embarrassing. When I do no contact, it makes me feel emotional stabile compared to the majority of the male population if you catch my drift. When I bring up the fact to some of my guy friends that I haven’t seen or spoke to my ex since, they’re like blown away. And I’m basically like “ dude, she said she doesn’t want to be with me anymore. What else is there to say or do lol”?

I personally reached a point in my life that when it comes to relationships, not even just gaming chicks but anyone in general. I have nothing to prove or convince them of. I know who I am and that’s enough for me.

 

[Mike41090]

Just got another text from the ex lol. She basically stated that she has been praying for me and the unit (so to speak) I work for since we are directly dealing with the protests and riots lately (emergency worker). I basically just responded with appreciate it and a tad bit of small talk that lasted five minutes. Did not get into anything whatsoever though. TBH the convo didn’t phase me whatsoever and I treated it like talking to any Joe Schmoe. Kinda felt fine and not hung up over it at all and could care less. A very liberating feeling of indifference which I haven’t felt in a while which seems to be that I’m making good progress. Never thought I’d get to this point.

 

[scarface701]

So I’m starting day 1 today. I’ve done NC with this same woman multiple times and she always ends up writing to me IMY messages or I’m sorry or whatever it is. It’s been four years now that we’ve been going back and forth like this. We’ve both moved on in other relationships. But... It seems it’s about every 6 months or so one of us will reach out. What bothers me the most is that every time we interact it ends with her being a complete ass. She’s younger than I am and so I just chalk it up to immaturity.... but to be honest it bothers me. Recently I reached out to her to say happy bday after NC for 45 days or so... and she will only interact via her twitter page. After going back and forth I just called her out and said this isn’t worth my time you either email or text back or we don’t communicate. She then tweeted some rude **** about how great her bf is and how terrible I am.... I wrote back and just said WTF I’m literally just trying to be nice and not always have stuff end badly between us. It’s been 4 years and it would be nice to just end things in a civil manner. However, she won’t allow that... so I told her she’d heard the last from me and it’s best if we forget each other. Today is day 1. I’ve never understood why women want to keep the conflict going??? I do care about her but I’m more upset that she won’t just let the conflict die. I’ve never dated a woman that I couldn’t reach out to 6 months or 1 year later and just say hey how are things hope all is well and have them say the same thing back. It’s weird that this woman wants to keep the conflict going. Not sure what that’s about....?

 

[bcude]

So I’m starting day 1 today. I’ve done NC with this same woman multiple times and she always ends up writing to me IMY messages or I’m sorry or whatever it is. It’s been four years now that we’ve been going back and forth like this. We’ve both moved on in other relationships. But... It seems it’s about every 6 months or so one of us will reach out. What bothers me the most is that every time we interact it ends with her being a complete ass. She’s younger than I am and so I just chalk it up to immaturity.... but to be honest it bothers me. Recently I reached out to her to say happy bday after NC for 45 days or so... and she will only interact via her twitter page. After going back and forth I just called her out and said this isn’t worth my time you either email or text back or we don’t communicate. She then tweeted some rude **** about how great her bf is and how terrible I am.... I wrote back and just said WTF I’m literally just trying to be nice and not always have stuff end badly between us. It’s been 4 years and it would be nice to just end things in a civil manner. However, she won’t allow that... so I told her she’d heard the last from me and it’s best if we forget each other. Today is day 1. I’ve never understood why women want to keep the conflict going??? I do care about her but I’m more upset that she won’t just let the conflict die. I’ve never dated a woman that I couldn’t reach out to 6 months or 1 year later and just say hey how are things hope all is well and have them say the same thing back. It’s weird that this woman wants to keep the conflict going. Not sure what that’s about....?

Welcome to the forum.
When you’re arguing with her, you’re playing her game at that point, a game she is biologically designed to win and you are not. Women love attention in all forms, positive or negative doesn't matter. You're feeding the fire, and it looks like kindergarten they way you two interact.
Do yourself a big favor and cut this trashy woman out of your life completely and have your peace of mind.
Then focus on evolving as a man and better women, you will be happier for it. Stay strong soldier.

 

[Lynx nkaf]

I understand how important it is to remain no contact.
As in, I do not reach out to them.

I have not now for over 9 weeks. Not a peep. Email. Text. Nothing.
Starting to forget what their voice sounds like.That was at the end of January I last heard their voice.
It was Jan 2 I last saw them in person not knowing it would be the last.
This has been a long 5 months with many eventful things and changes in my life.
Mostly more positive than when I was with them, tbh.

I'm trying to hang out at another forum, not love life related, to get perspective. My new social circle I started last week has put electricity back into my veins. It's sporty and outdoors with fit, positive people.

I am crushing my new work position and flourishing with paying down debt.



There's still several times a day that are acutely painful.
I wonder if it just takes longer to get over them when you're past your mid-forties?

 

[Lynx nkaf]

I can relate man. I'm 3 months in and still get waves of pain on a daily basis. I was blocked everywhere, which does make No Contact a lot easier. When all avenues of communication are closed off, then there's no choice but to move forward.

I still fantasise about her reaching out to me, out of the blue. My hope comes from the fact that I know it is genuinely hard for women to find good quality men these days. The reality is our ex's will have to date around for a while and have some bad experiences before they potentially become motivated to get back in contact with us....but this is a gamble and it may take a long time.

Our best option is to genuinely move on, so that if our ex's ever get back in touch then we are free from emotion and can coolly seduce them back into our orbit.

You don't want seconds man, don't dip into that garbage.

Facts are: they actually went past our boundary limits.

We deserve to declare that our best lifestyle awaits us and awaits our crushed and grinded out satisfied selfactualisation goals.

There is to be no platespinning/orbiting of exes.

I get it.
Its an impossibility that your ex becomes what you need, never mind what you want.
In my case particularly,
there should have been more action and less words I received from them.

If there's no action, their words are meaningless.

Also, I absolutely will pay for a private investigator before having sex with the next partner. I'm too sensitive/romantic/Disney not to protect myself this way.

 

[Robert28]

I can relate man. I'm 3 months in and still get waves of pain on a daily basis. I was blocked everywhere, which does make No Contact a lot easier. When all avenues of communication are closed off, then there's no choice but to move forward.

I still fantasise about her reaching out to me, out of the blue. My hope comes from the fact that I know it is genuinely hard for women to find good quality men these days. The reality is our ex's will have to date around for a while and have some bad experiences before they potentially become motivated to get back in contact with us....but this is a gamble and it may take a long time.

Our best option is to genuinely move on, so that if our ex's ever get back in touch then we are free from emotion and can coolly seduce them back into our orbit.

Women finding good men isn’t that hard. What’s hard is they get the tingles for the men that aren’t good and then whine about it. Most women have several chances at a decent guy but they sabatoge it or pass it over.

 

[Lynx nkaf]

I think it depends on how good the relationship was. Rather, how good YOU felt it was. If YOU felt it was really good, it hurts more and takes longer to get over

I wouldn't be typing these words on Sosuave right now if he hadn't taught me/exposed me to the concept of the red pill(wouldn't have seen Rational Male listed in a recommended booklist...wouldn't have seen mention of Sosuave in the book...actually, probably would still be with him if he hadn't taught me this stuff).
I know he realised that too late, but it didn't matter because I don't want or even like kids/babysitting and he wanted to impregnate so....here is what happens.


I sincerely hope he found what he needs and I do actually still google his name for obituaries(the covid pandemic...he had a constant, nagging smoker's cough ..he might have caught this) Nope. No obituary. So I am warm with genuine deference when I write that I hope he is happy.