Women and anxiety

[oldmanofthesea]

If you've read any of my posts, you will know I don't like blaming women for things that both men and women do equally. But the more dating I do and the more relationships I get into, the more I find that every woman I end up dating seems to have massive amounts of anxiety. I can't decide if it's just the women I attract and am drawn to, or if it's most women, or all women. We all know women are emotional creatures, so it makes sense that they are on the whole more anxious than men, but are most of them like 8+/10 anxious wrecks? Because that's what I see. I even see it in my platonic female friends.

The first purpose of my asking isn't to complain about women, but to try and figure out if I'm personally attracting them or drawn to them because if that is the case, it's something I want to address in myself.

The second purpose is to find out how those of you who have been successful with LTRs (even 3 months) deal with it successfully. Anymore, when I see anxiety and if it begins to ruin the enjoyment for me, I simply increase distance and see them less and less until we are either broken up or she is conditioned to understand that if she wants to spend time with me, she is going to have to change her attitude. But I also wonder how much communication should go along with that. I used to communicate a lot about it. These days I don't - I just find an excuse to get out and distance myself and avoid them. Not sure that's the healthiest way either, but if I had to pick between more vs less communication, I'm definitely leaning toward less. I noticed with my ex-wife as things went down-hill, NO amount of communication helped. So now I feel, why bother. I've also read a bit from David Deida on this topic - mostly relating to how to interpret the very different ways women communicate their emotions/feelings/concerns.... often they act/say one thing when what's bothering them is something else ("what she wants is not what she says"). Some of the examples he gives make a lot of sense, but I haven't seen enough examples from him to really zero-in on the pattern/mindset required to see things through that lens of clarity. So instead I default to simply distancing myself and backing away.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

If you've read any of my posts, you will know I don't like blaming women for things that both men and women do equally. But the more dating I do and the more relationships I get into, the more I find that every woman I end up dating seems to have massive amounts of anxiety. I can't decide if it's just the women I attract and am drawn to, or if it's most women, or all women. We all know women are emotional creatures, so it makes sense that they are on the whole more anxious than men, but are most of them like 8+/10 anxious wrecks? Because that's what I see. I even see it in my platonic female friends.

The first purpose of my asking isn't to complain about women, but to try and figure out if I'm personally attracting them or drawn to them because if that is the case, it's something I want to address in myself.

The second purpose is to find out how those of you who have been successful with LTRs (even 3 months) deal with it successfully. Anymore, when I see anxiety and if it begins to ruin the enjoyment for me, I simply increase distance and see them less and less until we are either broken up or she is conditioned to understand that if she wants to spend time with me, she is going to have to change her attitude. But I also wonder how much communication should go along with that. I used to communicate a lot about it. These days I don't - I just find an excuse to get out and distance myself and avoid them. Not sure that's the healthiest way either, but if I had to pick between more vs less communication, I'm definitely leaning toward less. I noticed with my ex-wife as things went down-hill, NO amount of communication helped. So now I feel, why bother.

I don't know. Im starting to not want to say too much. Saying what i think is a definite fail. Maybe let em talk. That might let them relax.

 

[CopperHead]

My ex had a ton of anxiety. She was a high achiever. Had her PhD in chemistry. She is a brilliant woman, but she was an anxious mess.

I found the best way for me to help her with it was to listen to her and ask questions. I found that giving advice and reassuring that everything will be alright doesnt work. In fact when I would try to talk her through it she would eventually start to complain that I dont listen. The best thing to do is to let her talk herself through it by guiding her with good quality questions.

As a man if I see a problem I want to try and fix it. Unfortunately that doesn't work with anxiety. The person with the anxiety has to come to conclusions on there own. They have to work through it themselves. No amount of reassurance will work unless they believe it themselves. So you have to just ask questions and let them figure it out.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

My ex had a ton of anxiety. She was a high achiever. Had her PhD in chemistry. She is a brilliant woman, but she was an anxious mess.

I found the best way for me to help her with it was to listen to her and ask questions. I found that giving advice and reassuring that everything will be alright doesnt work. In fact when I would try to talk her through it she would eventually start to complain that I dont listen. The best thing to do is to let her talk herself through it by guiding her with good quality questions.

As a man if I see a problem I want to try and fix it. Unfortunately that doesn't work with anxiety. The person with the anxiety has to come to conclusions on there own. They have to work through it themselves. No amount of reassurance will work unless they believe it themselves. So you have to just ask questions and let them figure it out.

Yeah I definitely learned that lesson with my ex wife. Don't try to solve, just listen and ask good/deep questions. The issue I find is that for many women, it's not enough to simply listen to them if their anxiety is manifesting specifically in the form of complaints about YOU. They expect to tell you how they are feeling and then have you say something back to them - like either apologize or agree that they are right and you are doing something wrong or "work through it" (whatever that means). I've tried to dodge that by simply responding with, "I hear you." and sometimes repeating what they say to ensure they know I listened and understood but it usually isn't enough. I do agree 100% that THEY must figure it out on their own.

I sat through 3 years of couples counseling with my ex wife at the end of our marriage. What I learned is that if/when a girl starts complaining all the time, there is nothing you can do to "fix" it. NO amount of talk, even professional therapy, will fix it. So now as soon as I start to hear complaining or am made to feel like I'm anything other than wholly appreciated and wanted, I'm out that door quick.

 

[Robert28]

Anxiety in women is just an excuse for them to get drugs and smoke weed.

 

[Robert28]

Anxiety is a vague word. I never use the word anxiety to describe women. How do you know they are feeling anxious? Maybe they thrive off of that chaotic energy?

This is why a lot of women hate guys who try to fix them. They don’t need fixing. Nature created them to thrive on chaos. It’s their power.

Now if they disrespect you, then you dismiss. There’s no fixing. It’s just approval or dismissing.

I’ve dismissed my own sisters and blocked them on Facebook. Sometimes a woman overplays her hand.

Sometimes it is YOU who have to lay down the law and show her that there is a limit to how much of a drama queen she can be.

Women aren’t dumb. They know what they are doing. It is up to us to set boundaries.

Don’t use psychological words to rationalize their behavior. If it’s disrespect, than call it what it is and dismiss.

I disagree about the part that women aren’t dumb. They are very dumb. Look at the life choices most make, popping out kids unmarried in their teens and 20’s, choosing to chase Chad who won’t commit, choosing to live a struggling lifestyle, choosing to not take care of themselves and look like **** at 30, all dumb choices.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

Anxiety is a vague word. I never use the word anxiety to describe women. How do you know they are feeling anxious? Maybe they thrive off of that chaotic energy?

I call it anxiety when they are constantly expressing worry and concern over things. They have "what-if itis." What if this, what if that, what if the world ends tomorrow, what if my mom dies, what if my kid gets sick, what if we break up, what if I lose my job, what if we move in together and it doesn't work out, what if my friend loses her job.... it goes on and on and on. People who do this have a lack of ability to understand the concept of span-of-control. There is no sense in worrying about things you can't control and there is no sense in worrying about things you can - be zen and simply act or do not act and choose to let it be as it is and accept it.

If it’s disrespect, than call it what it is and dismiss.

I feel that is what I am doing, though there are a couple of things I'm still trying to get my mind around.

If she complains about something I am doing and I feel it is a nonsense complaint (like her feeling insecurely jealous of an ex of mine who I don't even talk to anymore or that I'm on my phone too much when that isn't true at all), I will call her out on it and draw a boundary. And I will enforce the boundary by distancing myself from her if she pushes back on that. However, in doing so, often comes the accusation from the woman that you "don't want to communicate." I can't decide if that's true or not. I'm fine with communicating but I guess in this situation I don't feel communication is actually what is going on - it's more just her blasting her emotions in your direction and it is then justified as "wanting to communicate and problem solve." I could be wrong there - but that's my impression.

Another way to phrase the question is: If you feel like she's been nit-picking at you and you don't necessarily want to bring up any of the individual nit-picks because on their own, they are small, but together add up to an overall unpleasant experience, is it a good strategy to tell her vaguely you don't like her complaining all the time and then leave without being willing to sit and discuss it further.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

Well said ^ thank you

 

[Robert28]

Some of the stuff you mentioned has nothing to do with being smart or dumb, but lacking self love and not having the will to succeed.

People don’t choose to struggle. They lack the will and self love to thrive.

The lacking self love and not having the will to succeed comes from bad choices they’ve made and continue to make. I can choose not to talk down to the ghetto in my town and by crack off the local drug dealer. I don’t have to be the most confident person or have the perfect life to know that would be a stupid choice to make. People that struggle and lack the will to be great also surround themselves with people who made them feel that way about themselves in the first place. Everyone on this earth has someone come along at least once in their life that wants to see them succeed and truly cares about them, women don’t recognize this and often dismiss this guy or friendzone him.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Yeah I definitely learned that lesson with my ex wife. Don't try to solve, just listen and ask good/deep questions. The issue I find is that for many women, it's not enough to simply listen to them if their anxiety is manifesting specifically in the form of complaints about YOU. They expect to tell you how they are feeling and then have you say something back to them - like either apologize or agree that they are right and you are doing something wrong or "work through it" (whatever that means). I've tried to dodge that by simply responding with, "I hear you." and sometimes repeating what they say to ensure they know I listened and understood but it usually isn't enough. I do agree 100% that THEY must figure it out on their own.

I sat through 3 years of couples counseling with my ex wife at the end of our marriage. What I learned is that if/when a girl starts complaining all the time, there is nothing you can do to "fix" it. NO amount of talk, even professional therapy, will fix it. So now as soon as I start to hear complaining or am made to feel like I'm anything other than wholly appreciated and wanted, I'm out that door quick.

Yep. Being complained about means they have a negative glasses on with respect to you...

 

[zekko]

I do think women tend to have more anxiety than men. This is not only a product of nature, but also of gender role expectations. Males are trained to be strong, less emotional, and to be problem solvers rather than just worriers. As for a response, you are supposed to be a rock for them, a place of calm while their emotional storms blow. It's good to listen, but be a source of strength. It's very much like keeping your frame.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

I do think women tend to have more anxiety than men. This is not only a product of nature, but also of gender role expectations. Males are trained to be strong, less emotional, and to be problem solvers rather than just worriers. As for a response, you are supposed to be a rock for them, a place of calm while their emotional storms blow. It's good to listen, but be a source of strength. It's very much like keeping your frame.

Yeah I definitely live that - but with some women, the anxiety is so much that it makes them no fun to be around. I have 100 things I could be doing, and WANT to be doing, even in this quarantine.... I give up some of those things to spend time with her because I enjoy it. But the second it cases to become enjoyable because of her "emotional storms", well that's when I suddenly get busy and need to leave. I just find myself suddenly getting busy a lot lately lol.

 

[logicallefty]

My last GF always had anxiety about money. She owned her own cleaning business. Had three employees and the business was doing pretty well really. If one customer would cancel a cleaning one day, one $50-100 job ONE TIME, it would send her into an anxiety attack that lead her to talking about closing the business down, getting rid of people, not being able to pay her own bills*, etc. So yeah, anxiety about not being able to pay her own bills. Let's elaborate on that. So after her and I broke up, one of her beefs with me was that "You saw me struggling and never offered to help me financially." Apparently, in her words, I was her "other half" so when she was struggling with money (actual or perceived), and griping at me about it, she wanted me to "step in" and help her with her bills. She told me her "pride" got in the way of her asking but I should have known she needed help and "stepped up".. I didn't, so, I was selfish, didn't care about her, only cared about myself and money, bla #1, bla #2, bla #3, etc. Can't win.

 

[zekko]

She told me her "pride" got in the way of her asking but I should have known she needed help and "stepped up".. I didn't, so, I was selfish, didn't care about her, only cared about myself and money, bla #1, bla #2, bla #3, etc. Can't win.

Typical woman expecting you to be able to read her mind.
And I wouldn't be a fan of handing her cash either.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

My last GF always had anxiety about money. She owned her own cleaning business. Had three employees and the business was doing pretty well really. If one customer would cancel a cleaning one day, one $50-100 job ONE TIME, it would send her into an anxiety attack that lead her to talking about closing the business down, getting rid of people, not being able to pay her own bills*, etc. So yeah, anxiety about not being able to pay her own bills. Let's elaborate on that. So after her and I broke up, one of her beefs with me was that "You saw me struggling and never offered to help me financially." Apparently, in her words, I was her "other half" so when she was struggling with money (actual or perceived), and griping at me about it, she wanted me to "step in" and help her with her bills. She told me her "pride" got in the way of her asking but I should have known she needed help and "stepped up".. I didn't, so, I was selfish, didn't care about her, only cared about myself and money, bla #1, bla #2, bla #3, etc. Can't win.

I am glad you were able to see her complaint for what it was, and not let her convince you that you were in the wrong.

 

[BadBoy89]

We all know women are emotional creatures, so it makes sense that they are on the whole more anxious than men, but are most of them like 8+/10 anxious wrecks? Because that's what I see. I even see it in my platonic female friends.

I noticed with my ex-wife as things went down-hill, NO amount of communication helped. So now I feel, why bother.

When a woman tells a man “we should communicate more”, it means she wants to shift the relationship away from your terms to her terms. If a man is getting what he wants from a woman, why would he change anything down the line? Because the longer he is with a woman, the more her expectations go up while her value goes down. It’s like a car; the older she gets, the more maintenance and upkeep you have to put in to it.

A man should communicate (about himself) as little as possible until sex happens. Once sex happens, keep the communications at the same level. What benefit does a man get for revealing his emotions and feelings? A woman isnt going to stick her tongue down his throat harder because he is in touch with his sensitive side. If anything, she will lose respect for him.

Remember men, a woman isn’t only dealing with you. She is dealing with her fading looks, biological clock, and competition from other females.You can‘t control whether she is anxious or not. The only thing you can control is how you deal with it.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

good post. never show emotions. Be cold. Be the man. Women are smarter than 99% of men. Be the 1% of men that know how to handle women and never hand your power away.

Women are "smarter" at manipulation because it's their main go-to... They aren't "smarter" in all ways.

 

[Ohso-Phresh]

If you've read any of my posts, you will know I don't like blaming women for things that both men and women do equally. But the more dating I do and the more relationships I get into, the more I find that every woman I end up dating seems to have massive amounts of anxiety. I can't decide if it's just the women I attract and am drawn to, or if it's most women, or all women. We all know women are emotional creatures, so it makes sense that they are on the whole more anxious than men, but are most of them like 8+/10 anxious wrecks? Because that's what I see. I even see it in my platonic female friends.

The first purpose of my asking isn't to complain about women, but to try and figure out if I'm personally attracting them or drawn to them because if that is the case, it's something I want to address in myself.

The second purpose is to find out how those of you who have been successful with LTRs (even 3 months) deal with it successfully. Anymore, when I see anxiety and if it begins to ruin the enjoyment for me, I simply increase distance and see them less and less until we are either broken up or she is conditioned to understand that if she wants to spend time with me, she is going to have to change her attitude. But I also wonder how much communication should go along with that. I used to communicate a lot about it. These days I don't - I just find an excuse to get out and distance myself and avoid them. Not sure that's the healthiest way either, but if I had to pick between more vs less communication, I'm definitely leaning toward less. I noticed with my ex-wife as things went down-hill, NO amount of communication helped. So now I feel, why bother. I've also read a bit from David Deida on this topic - mostly relating to how to interpret the very different ways women communicate their emotions/feelings/concerns.... often they act/say one thing when what's bothering them is something else ("what she wants is not what she says"). Some of the examples he gives make a lot of sense, but I haven't seen enough examples from him to really zero-in on the pattern/mindset required to see things through that lens of clarity. So instead I default to simply distancing myself and backing away.

If you are depressed you are living in the past.

If you are anxious you are living in the future.

If you are at peace you are living in the present.

Lao Tzu


I interpret anxiety expressed by a woman to mean that it’s time for some physical touch.

Ymmv

 

[oldmanofthesea]

I interpret anxiety expressed by a woman to mean that it’s time for some physical touch.

This is a fantastic point. It is something I learned with my ex and I sometimes forget about it. It is so counter-intuitive that a woman wants physical affection and connection so she goes about asking for it by being anxious and argumentative.That has the affect on most of us of driving us away. But most times if you just go in for some physical connection, it’s like hitting a reset button. I think part of the art of being a man is learning how to see through some female behaviors for what they are.

 

[Lynx nkaf]

This is a fantastic point. It is something I learned with my ex and I sometimes forget about it. It is so counter-intuitive that a woman wants physical affection and connection so she goes about asking for it by being anxious and argumentative.That has the affect on most of us of driving us away. But most times if you just go in for some physical connection, it’s like hitting a reset button. I think part of the art of being a man is learning how to see through some female behaviors for what they are.

these are important observations-if she/he feels reconnected to you, what is there to be anxious or argumentative about? (almost every scenario).

I forgot my ex and I used to refer to physical touch as reconnection. It was a LDR we had...1.5 hours away... 'are we getting reconnected?' 'do we need reconnection right now?'
Both of us could physically/mentally relax.

I actually saw the effect of physical touch by looking up on the equipment by his hospital bed back in beginning of October. Just holding hands, and I had scrunched my head up to his on his pillow(uncomfortable to do from a chair, but whatever)
The rate of heartbeats went down and the pattern of the line looked more regular on the monitor. There was another number that improved too-he asked the nurse but I forget what it was.
I didn't know he was anxious, until I saw the change after the cuddly handholding.

He had a deep respiratory infection. That's all they told him.

Then, in January, when we were still texting, he had Strep throat, he told me. He's 41.
I'm upset a couple times a week thinking about him potentially catching this covid-19 and he wouldn't/couldn't tell me. We're on no contact.

And I'm exercising more, so I'm not anxious. Just disheartened.