Dear Don Juans,
I am new here. For a forum about seduction I found surprising amounts of insights and experience which Id love to benefit from.
This article was posted a few times here and describes the situation: https://sharischreiber.com/havent-we-met-before/
It states Borderliners and narcissists attract eachother and end in a destructive pushpull dance.
I mostly fit the narcissist bill. Due to family traumas I was emotionally walled off for years and never really built an identity. This had its uses: I felt no insecurity and could appear confident, uncaring, leading to my good share of hookups, of both genders. I thrived socially and academically. The identity stuff bogged me down in other aspects of life, such as goals and real intimacy. Deep down im much more of a beta than I wanted to admit. Ive been in therapy for a while now.
My ex and I met while I was in relationship with a girl- my 1st serious relationship in 6 years. It ended partially due to my issues. The BPD girl is sexy and intelligent, overly flirtatious with everyone, but it never affected me. After my relationship ended, due to my own issues, the BPD ex and I started a friendship that evolved into dating. I think we were attracted to the mutual lack of emotional availability. Important note: my BPD ex is in therapy and open about her diagnosis.
It started off as always: lovebombing, complimenting my personality traits, trusting me immensely with her issues: being severly bullied, showing the cut marks. It made me feel special. I told her I didn't want a new relationship but focus on my process and experiment. I was scared of hurting her. Yet she was so open and unique and valued me, I was reluctant to let go. She broke down my defenses rapidly. She got herself a side-girlfriend to fend off the uncertainty, and we ended up in a 6 months long (destructive) dance/romance.
Bulletpoints:
- her agreeing to date despite the risks and uncertainties
- her kissing another guy while we were on a double date- to provoke/sabotage us due to uncertainty
- her repeatedly stating she wasn't sure to commit either
- me not wanting to commit in name but being fully monogamous, her flirtily txting the biggest ****boy in history in front of my face in response.
- a big fight over the broken trust
- her distancing herself for weeks, breaking off contact suddenly
- her coming back
- suddenly breaking up when I wanted to experiment, despite saying she was ok with my process and she had a girl of her own
- me devastated having lost both my partner and support
- her having rebounds very quickly, even a 3some with a mutual female friend
- her love and compliments evaporated within a week: I heard I was a mess and that it was all my fault. I think she started a smear campaign as well
- her dating romantically within weeks
She returned always after a few weeks. At first just for sex- she had a rebound but would often lie to him to have **** sex with me ( I saw the texts ). When I got hurt about the lack of contact in between sexdates, she would run away again. This time she secretly contacted my previous ex to lay all the errors in our relationship at my feet, and said no one could make me happy since I was broken.
This part hurt the most yet helped me realize she was partially right. I had been honest with my issues but she rarely communicated the burden it was for her. I believed her words instead of considering the burden. Nevertheless, her own faults were ignored: not confronting her issues, lying, provoking, making empty promises, flirting/sleeping around. The next weeks she would call me 5 times at night crying but never wanted to talk: just point out we weren't good for each other, then block.
In November she came back, admitting she had serious feelings and had dumped her rebound, who'd only been a distraction. I remained wary, wanted to talk about all that had happened, was sceptical of her being monogamous this time and not running away. She dodged every attempt to talk about it, but showed me proof she had dumped her rebound. They stayed 'friends', despite him having feelings for her. She was never honest to him that she was dating someone else, keeping him close. When I pressed our issues she wanted another weekend to 'think things over' about us. That was my final straw, I ended it, not wanting the torment of another weekend of uncertainty or 4th recycle. With her trust and lovebombing she had eroded my walls immensely, and there was little left of my previously walled off confident persona. Which was good but still painful. I told her regretfully I couldn't be a toy to her whims and said I had different standards of a relationship. She blocked me.
I left voicemails asking to either close things off amically or talk about our issues instead of dodging them. I really wanted to be with her- but maybe I mostly wanted to be with the person she had shown during our honeymoon phase, a fake mirror of my needs. She declined, often hatefully. Once she would call me drunkenly at night. At this point, my therapy has made huge progress, finding the cores of my issues and I can experience many more feelings and certainty. I slept around a bit to confirm my sexuality (straight), but daily I thought of her. For 9 months, I had been with no one but her, despite her having a girl on the side (which I thought was fine) but after the breakup she had about 8 people.
The day before a mutual reunion of friends she unblocked and texted me, asking if we could meet before to 'ease her nerves'. I hesitated, since this was again purely for her needs and she'd turned down any attempt of my own for closure or reconciliation. She pulled back her 'offer' and I ranted for 10min about what a selfish, cowardly destructive person she was. She blocked me.
At the reunion the tension was palpable, she avoided my gaze. Had lost weight. At some point I sat her down and tried to talk. She looked like a wounded deer. Her legs were shaking, she could almost not look at me. I offered to bury the hatchet, she agreed and bought me shots. She hovered close, sought eye contact, we made jokes about our angry past. Suddenly she asked if I had sex recently- which I had the night before, for distraction. She broke down and ran away in tears to the train station. I was mortified about both the hypocrisy and the apparent many remaining feelings she still had but had denied. I found her. She told me how much of a hypocrite she was, but how much my ONS hurt. She thought she would never be good enough, especially for me. That even when she was loyal to me like last time, I would find flaws. How much she was bullied and always felt like she was inferior and unworthy of love. Hence all the weight loss since our breakup, and why she could not stand talking and closing it off: nothing she would say would ever suffice. Hence all the times she ran away after fights instead of talking it out, or how much she needed quick validation through quick rebounds or promiscuity, hence the lies and the promises to help me stay around despite dealing so badly with the possibility of us not working out. Hence the immense academic achievements, overt sensuality and emotional masks. She hates herself and is always looking for external validation.
Honestly guys, for months I felt like she was either consciously manipulative or just very selfish. But these emotions were raw and pure and showed her immense traumas. This does not condone her behaviour, but explains it.
Naturally we ended up cuddling, kissing and sleeping together. I felt no more anger, everything suddenly fit together. She said the blocking isnt out of spite but because our magnetism always pulls her back in, and she's sure were just gonna hurt each other. She does not want a relationship because I require too much validation and she needs a partner who makes her feel good about herself. I didn't want to hurry a romance or any at all, was just happy to finally understand her.
She was emotionally overwhelmed the next day and distant. She unblocked me, sent some dinner pics, and blocked me again after I replied. I expected it. Tried calling her two days later, was unblocked, I told her that her newfound vulnerability explained a lot to me and that I wanted to use that knowledge to end our endless cycle of action reaction, pushpull and anger. Offered to just have a few coffees over the next months, to cherish our new understanding with stability. No pressure on dating or romance- we had both been with other people, there was no rush. She asked if I could do coffee the day after. Called me at night because she was anxious what I meant with that coffee. To calm her fears I thought, I just restated my very neutral intentions.
The morning after she sent a voicenote explaining that it would probably never be just a coffee between us, and that she couldn't allow that level of unrest into her life at this point (her graduating and finding a job). She blocked me. I called and told her I was okay with that, but reminded her that circumstances had changed: I was certain about my wants and needs now and also had insight and empathy for what makes her tick. She would think about it. At this point all communication channels are blocked by her, it's been two days.
I wonder what you guys think? I'm ambivalent. I feel all this new knowledge about each other and ourselves would have given our romance much more perspective, and could still do so now. Maybe too much damage has been done.
I also don't know whether I should use the new knowledge to try and be patient while blocked, understanding it is not out of maliciousness but anxiety. Or that I should give in to the thought that this is still all very much a game, conscious or not, and things will never change. I want to give kindness and understanding a chance for once, but it's tough.
A long read. Someday I'll write a book about it. Thank you for those who read and respond!
I am new here. For a forum about seduction I found surprising amounts of insights and experience which Id love to benefit from.
This article was posted a few times here and describes the situation: https://sharischreiber.com/havent-we-met-before/
It states Borderliners and narcissists attract eachother and end in a destructive pushpull dance.
I mostly fit the narcissist bill. Due to family traumas I was emotionally walled off for years and never really built an identity. This had its uses: I felt no insecurity and could appear confident, uncaring, leading to my good share of hookups, of both genders. I thrived socially and academically. The identity stuff bogged me down in other aspects of life, such as goals and real intimacy. Deep down im much more of a beta than I wanted to admit. Ive been in therapy for a while now.
My ex and I met while I was in relationship with a girl- my 1st serious relationship in 6 years. It ended partially due to my issues. The BPD girl is sexy and intelligent, overly flirtatious with everyone, but it never affected me. After my relationship ended, due to my own issues, the BPD ex and I started a friendship that evolved into dating. I think we were attracted to the mutual lack of emotional availability. Important note: my BPD ex is in therapy and open about her diagnosis.
It started off as always: lovebombing, complimenting my personality traits, trusting me immensely with her issues: being severly bullied, showing the cut marks. It made me feel special. I told her I didn't want a new relationship but focus on my process and experiment. I was scared of hurting her. Yet she was so open and unique and valued me, I was reluctant to let go. She broke down my defenses rapidly. She got herself a side-girlfriend to fend off the uncertainty, and we ended up in a 6 months long (destructive) dance/romance.
Bulletpoints:
- her agreeing to date despite the risks and uncertainties
- her kissing another guy while we were on a double date- to provoke/sabotage us due to uncertainty
- her repeatedly stating she wasn't sure to commit either
- me not wanting to commit in name but being fully monogamous, her flirtily txting the biggest ****boy in history in front of my face in response.
- a big fight over the broken trust
- her distancing herself for weeks, breaking off contact suddenly
- her coming back
- suddenly breaking up when I wanted to experiment, despite saying she was ok with my process and she had a girl of her own
- me devastated having lost both my partner and support
- her having rebounds very quickly, even a 3some with a mutual female friend
- her love and compliments evaporated within a week: I heard I was a mess and that it was all my fault. I think she started a smear campaign as well
- her dating romantically within weeks
She returned always after a few weeks. At first just for sex- she had a rebound but would often lie to him to have **** sex with me ( I saw the texts ). When I got hurt about the lack of contact in between sexdates, she would run away again. This time she secretly contacted my previous ex to lay all the errors in our relationship at my feet, and said no one could make me happy since I was broken.
This part hurt the most yet helped me realize she was partially right. I had been honest with my issues but she rarely communicated the burden it was for her. I believed her words instead of considering the burden. Nevertheless, her own faults were ignored: not confronting her issues, lying, provoking, making empty promises, flirting/sleeping around. The next weeks she would call me 5 times at night crying but never wanted to talk: just point out we weren't good for each other, then block.
In November she came back, admitting she had serious feelings and had dumped her rebound, who'd only been a distraction. I remained wary, wanted to talk about all that had happened, was sceptical of her being monogamous this time and not running away. She dodged every attempt to talk about it, but showed me proof she had dumped her rebound. They stayed 'friends', despite him having feelings for her. She was never honest to him that she was dating someone else, keeping him close. When I pressed our issues she wanted another weekend to 'think things over' about us. That was my final straw, I ended it, not wanting the torment of another weekend of uncertainty or 4th recycle. With her trust and lovebombing she had eroded my walls immensely, and there was little left of my previously walled off confident persona. Which was good but still painful. I told her regretfully I couldn't be a toy to her whims and said I had different standards of a relationship. She blocked me.
I left voicemails asking to either close things off amically or talk about our issues instead of dodging them. I really wanted to be with her- but maybe I mostly wanted to be with the person she had shown during our honeymoon phase, a fake mirror of my needs. She declined, often hatefully. Once she would call me drunkenly at night. At this point, my therapy has made huge progress, finding the cores of my issues and I can experience many more feelings and certainty. I slept around a bit to confirm my sexuality (straight), but daily I thought of her. For 9 months, I had been with no one but her, despite her having a girl on the side (which I thought was fine) but after the breakup she had about 8 people.
The day before a mutual reunion of friends she unblocked and texted me, asking if we could meet before to 'ease her nerves'. I hesitated, since this was again purely for her needs and she'd turned down any attempt of my own for closure or reconciliation. She pulled back her 'offer' and I ranted for 10min about what a selfish, cowardly destructive person she was. She blocked me.
At the reunion the tension was palpable, she avoided my gaze. Had lost weight. At some point I sat her down and tried to talk. She looked like a wounded deer. Her legs were shaking, she could almost not look at me. I offered to bury the hatchet, she agreed and bought me shots. She hovered close, sought eye contact, we made jokes about our angry past. Suddenly she asked if I had sex recently- which I had the night before, for distraction. She broke down and ran away in tears to the train station. I was mortified about both the hypocrisy and the apparent many remaining feelings she still had but had denied. I found her. She told me how much of a hypocrite she was, but how much my ONS hurt. She thought she would never be good enough, especially for me. That even when she was loyal to me like last time, I would find flaws. How much she was bullied and always felt like she was inferior and unworthy of love. Hence all the weight loss since our breakup, and why she could not stand talking and closing it off: nothing she would say would ever suffice. Hence all the times she ran away after fights instead of talking it out, or how much she needed quick validation through quick rebounds or promiscuity, hence the lies and the promises to help me stay around despite dealing so badly with the possibility of us not working out. Hence the immense academic achievements, overt sensuality and emotional masks. She hates herself and is always looking for external validation.
Honestly guys, for months I felt like she was either consciously manipulative or just very selfish. But these emotions were raw and pure and showed her immense traumas. This does not condone her behaviour, but explains it.
Naturally we ended up cuddling, kissing and sleeping together. I felt no more anger, everything suddenly fit together. She said the blocking isnt out of spite but because our magnetism always pulls her back in, and she's sure were just gonna hurt each other. She does not want a relationship because I require too much validation and she needs a partner who makes her feel good about herself. I didn't want to hurry a romance or any at all, was just happy to finally understand her.
She was emotionally overwhelmed the next day and distant. She unblocked me, sent some dinner pics, and blocked me again after I replied. I expected it. Tried calling her two days later, was unblocked, I told her that her newfound vulnerability explained a lot to me and that I wanted to use that knowledge to end our endless cycle of action reaction, pushpull and anger. Offered to just have a few coffees over the next months, to cherish our new understanding with stability. No pressure on dating or romance- we had both been with other people, there was no rush. She asked if I could do coffee the day after. Called me at night because she was anxious what I meant with that coffee. To calm her fears I thought, I just restated my very neutral intentions.
The morning after she sent a voicenote explaining that it would probably never be just a coffee between us, and that she couldn't allow that level of unrest into her life at this point (her graduating and finding a job). She blocked me. I called and told her I was okay with that, but reminded her that circumstances had changed: I was certain about my wants and needs now and also had insight and empathy for what makes her tick. She would think about it. At this point all communication channels are blocked by her, it's been two days.
I wonder what you guys think? I'm ambivalent. I feel all this new knowledge about each other and ourselves would have given our romance much more perspective, and could still do so now. Maybe too much damage has been done.
I also don't know whether I should use the new knowledge to try and be patient while blocked, understanding it is not out of maliciousness but anxiety. Or that I should give in to the thought that this is still all very much a game, conscious or not, and things will never change. I want to give kindness and understanding a chance for once, but it's tough.
A long read. Someday I'll write a book about it. Thank you for those who read and respond!
?? No but seriously. Its the power of the pu$$y dude. as long as a person can maintain frame, they’ll never get sucked in by a bpd chick. So to answer your question: physiologically he is considered a man. But he has switched into the girls frame, so psychologically and emotionally he is feminine.