If you are failing with women, here's why...

[JohnChops]

Here's another paradox for you all. In spite of what I just wrote, most women find me friendly, relaxed, funny and approachable.

How can this be for a man who advocates judging women?

Because you are genuine in your actions, and your actions match your words. Congruency is attractive. A girl will see right through a guy who says one thing and does something else.

Walking away should be something she just knows you're capable of doing all the time, as soon as she doesn't live up to your standards. It will be communicated through your mannerism and everything you do covertly, because it's your default mindset and something you truly feel and not some line you threaten her with when she acts out.

Walking away is the best tool we have. I still think back to an old Jophil thread where he walked away from a woman because she was treating his time like it didn't matter. He left, she was hooked. I have countless of times where walking away increased attraction by 1000x. Hell I still have some girl who is into me because I walked away from having s3x with her a few years back. I've walked away from my girlfriend a few times to set the tone and that's put her in line. When you walk away, it isn't just a power move, that is when a girl will reveal her cards. If you walk away and she doesn't care, she was never into you (shocker), but if she chases after you even more, runs after you (physically) then there is something there.

 

[Atom Smasher]

Because you are genuine in your actions, and your actions match your words. Congruency is attractive. A girl will see right through a guy who says one thing and does something else.

@JohnChops for the win.

Every man should memorize those three sentences.

 

[zekko]

I always thought of the "smirk" as (in Hollywood terms since we both know these people) like the Bruce Willis smile, or (yeah, him again) George Clooney. Or anyone who's played James Bond. There's a touch of rapscallion, but it's not a form of naked condescension. Part of the whole charm package

I could see it, sort of, I guess. I think it would mostly be women who find it appealing though. For me, it's about as attractive as looking at some guy's d!ck. I'm just not a smirker, I guess.

I remember hearing a story about Bruce Willis several years ago, after he and Demi Moore divorced. He was at a party and was propositioning some young girls. They were like "He was so old! He thought because he was famous, we would have sex with him. If he was nicer about it, we probably would have fvcked him, but he was such an @ss".

Kevin Smith directed him in a movie once, and has often repeated that he was very difficult to work with. So maybe these smirkers are revealing a flawed personality.

Regarding congruety, another way to put that is that you are authentic, or not fake. Or at least come across that way. Which is one reason why you need to find a style that works with your personality. Being your real self is attractive - usually.

 

[Atom Smasher]

@zekko, think of your avatar, Captain James T. Kirk.

Remember when he would banter with Bones or other crew members? He would always have that half-smile going on. Sort of a semi-smile and not a big, happy invested smile. That’s what I think of and what I mean when I use the word “smirk”.

Kirk was being friendly to his crew but reserved, maintaining he status as their superior.

 

[zekko]

Remember when he would banter with Bones or other crew members? He would always have that half-smile going on. Sort of a semi-smile and not a big, happy invested smile. That’s what I think of aKirk was being friendly to his crew but reserved, maintaining he status as their superior.

I know what you're saying, but I don't really see that as a smirk, but more of a bemused smile. And he's not really reveling in his superior position, he's enjoying the camaraderie of his good friends by some good-natured ribbing. My take, anyway.

I'm not really a fan of these affectations that are supposed to suggest superiority. If you want to be superior, then actually be superior. If you really are, there shouldn't be a need to blow your own horn about it.

 

[AJ84]

I know what you're saying, but I don't really see that as a smirk, but more of a bemused smile. And he's not really reveling in his superior position, he's enjoying the camaraderie of his good friends by some good-natured ribbing. My take, anyway.

I'm not really a fan of these affectations that are supposed to suggest superiority. If you want to be superior, then actually be superior. If you really are, there shouldn't be a need to blow your own horn about it.

Me neither.

In order to be superior, you have to rely on how other people treat you, they have to treat you as if you are better than them. How many people are truly ok with doing that? Basically, being superior requires the interactions of other people to willingly confirm and believe that, otherwise anyone can say they are superior. Most of us see things through our own ego centric lens, and most of us don’t take too kindly nor accept having people in our lives who believe we are less than them, and in order to show superiority, you have to imply that they are.

A confident person doesn’t require any of that to be confident. They don’t require someone to place themselves below them in order to be confident. The need to be superior is actually a social crutch and a validation need, being confident isn’t. Women like men who are confident but don’t act like they are better than everyone else including her.

 

[redskinsfan92]

Me neither.

In order to be superior, you have to rely on how other people treat you, they have to treat you as if you are better than them. How many people are truly ok with doing that? Basically, being superior requires the interactions of other people to willingly confirm and believe that, otherwise anyone can say they are superior. Most of us see things through our own ego centric lens, and most of us don’t take too kindly nor accept having people in our lives who believe we are less than them, and in order to show superiority, you have to imply that they are.

A confident person doesn’t require any of that to be confident. They don’t require someone to place themselves below them in order to be confident. The need to be superior is actually a social crutch and a validation need, being confident isn’t. Women like men who are confident but don’t act like they are better than everyone else including her.

Women like men who are confident in what? See, the word "confident" is overused. Find a better word.

 

[AJ84]

Women like men who are confident in what? See, the word "confident" is overused. Find a better word.

Confident in their abilities (from simply managing their lives to particular talents and skills) sure of who they are, liking who they are, trusting their own judgement, not being afraid to stand up for themselves. I ran out of examples but you get my point right? A lot of this comes from the inside.

 

[zekko]

The need to be superior is actually a social crutch and a validation need, being confident isn’t.

I agree with you, and I don't believe anyone is inherently better than anyone else. Of course, some people have better habits, skills, and resources, so I'm not saying people are "equal" exactly. Some people have to make do with less.

And when it comes to the world of men, men are very competitive, especially for younger males. You can see that reading the tips here, all the talk about "alpha males", "be the best option", and such. A lot of what men do is built around being better than the next guy.

As for men and women, I don't really see one as superior to the other, they just fulfill different roles. The traditional male role is a little more grounded and practical when it comes to day to day survival (protection and provision), which is why men are generally leaders. The female role is more supportive (a bit like a healer accompanying a warrior in nerd game terms), but no less important, especially considering that includes having and nurturing the children, which is necessary for the survival of the species.

 

[redskinsfan92]

Confident in their abilities (from simply managing their lives to particular talents and skills) sure of who they are, liking who they are, trusting their own judgement, not being afraid to stand up for themselves. I ran out of examples but you get my point right? A lot of this comes from the inside.

Confidence comes experience and options. If one is in a new situation or task they will not be confident. If you know you can't get another job soon, you will not be confident in asking your boss for a raise.

A man who is failing to find success with women will not be confident with women. The only way he will become confident with women is to experience success and options with women. So, it fails to be good advice to tell men to be confident to attract women.

A man must be prepared to try things he is not confident in. Like Eminem puking up his spaghetti before a performance.

 

[AJ84]

Confidence comes experience and options. If one is in a new situation or task they will not be confident. If you know you can't get another job soon, you will not be confident in asking your boss for a raise.

A man who is failing to find success with women will not be confident with women. The only way he will become confident with women is to experience success and options with women. So, it fails to be good advice to tell men to be confident to attract women.

A man must be prepared to try things he is not confident in. Like Eminem puking up his spaghetti before a performance.

I’m not focusing just on being confident with women, there’s more to being confident than getting women, that’s one piece.

Confidence doesn’t always depend on having options but confidence in dating I can see how it would, yes for sure.

I agree trying things he is not confident in helps build confidence. He may not be confident when he is trying it for the first time but he is confident enough not to let fear of failing prevent him from trying. And if he fails he learns from it, rather than internalizing it and never trying anything new again. A confident person who tries something and fails will either try again or admit it’s not their forte, shrug it off, maybe laugh at themselves a bit, and go on to try something else that interests them. It’s an attractive quality in a man. Of course, looking decent goes along with that because women have eyes. But like I have said a zillion times on this site, they don’t need to look like a Greek God.

 

[zekko]

Confidence comes experience and options. If one is in a new situation or task they will not be confident.

This has been a bit of a sticking point for me also over the years. It appears to me that there is a kind of general confidence that a guy has that carries him through even if he's not dealing with something he's familiar with. And that's the type they often talk about on seduction sites. To me this is more courage and bravado rather than confidence, because I agree with you confidence comes from experience with a subject. But whatever.

I saw this on Colin Cowherd today: He was talking about his theory of the "quarterback face". Basically he was saying that the type of guys who become leaders (in this case, QBs) are the handsome guys. Because the girls like him and the guys think he's cool. So he gets the ball on the playground and gets to play at being quarterback. Supposedly the way people treat him and naturally defer to him gives him this kind of general confidence when dealing with life. He expects things to work out for him.

 

[zekko]

Google: "the Kirk smirk"

I'm not saying Kirk never smirked, I just don't think he smirked at his friends.
He smirked when he was dealing with an adversary, a rival Klingon captain, an incompetent Starfleet administrator, an unruly alien, that sort of thing.

Also, a lot of Kirk's expressions that are simply smiles are going to be labeled "Kirk smirks" just because it rhymes

 

[zekko]

Athlete are generally above average in physical attractiveness. Quasimodo and the Elephant Man are extreme examples of the opposite. Physical weakness, sickliness, and deformity are unattractive. Boys don't become athlete because they're attractive. He's got that backwards.

I hear what you're saying. But all football players are athletes. I think he's saying that out of that group of athletes, the guy who becomes the quarterback (the leader) is most likely the good looking guy, because the good looking guy has more confidence. To get good at that position, you have to be able to practice at that position, and the popular kid is more likely to be able to take that spot.

 

[biggoal]

I hear what you're saying. But all football players are athletes. I think he's saying that out of that group of athletes, the guy who becomes the quarterback (the leader) is most likely the good looking guy, because the good looking guy has more confidence. To get good at that position, you have to be able to practice at that position, and the popular kid is more likely to be able to take that spot.

It's different today though the last 15 years. Used to be just the tall white guys were QBs. That's not the case anymore. You have the likes of Russel Wilson and such now. Not all QB are good looking. I mean Terry Bradshaw and John Elway I wouldn't consider that above average looking.

Same way with NHL players. Look at ugly rat faces like Brad Marchand. Acts nasty, looks like a rat and has an HB10 wife. Even the ugly NHL players have HB8 on up wives.

 

[zekko]

The point is that the "smirk" everyone was referring to is just basically a playful, subtle, skeptical smile, usually reserved for woman and children who are misbehaving in an amusing way.

Well, you and Atom Smasher mean it that way, apparently. Not so sure that "everyone" in the PUA world means it that way.
Meanwhile, in the real world (as opposed to a pickup forum), this is how smirk is defined, these are the first entries that come up when you Google "smirk definition". I suppose the Cambridge version comes closest to what you are saying. But notice that in most of these definitions, there is a negative connotation to the smirk, a sense of conceit or smugness. Which is what I think of every time someone brings up smirking.

a smug, conceited, or silly smile (Google Dictionary)

to smile in an affected or smug manner https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/smirk

a smile that expresses satisfaction or pleasure about having done something or knowing something that is not known by someone else
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/smirk

to smile in a conceited, knowing, or annoyingly complacent way https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/smirk

A smirk is specific kind of smile, one that suggests self-satisfaction, smugness, or even pleasure at someone else's unhappiness or misfortune. https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/smirk

to smile in an affected, smug, or offensively familiar way. https://www.dictionary.com/browse/smirk

It's different today though the last 15 years. Used to be just the tall white guys were QBs. That's not the case anymore. You have the likes of Russel Wilson and such now. Not all QB are good looking. I mean Terry Bradshaw and John Elway I wouldn't consider that above average looking

Not so sure I would call Russell Wilson unattractive, not that I'm any judge. Anyway, there are always outliers, and besides it's not my theory. But the point is that good looking people get a lot of positive reinforcement, so they tend to have confidence. It's kind of like what @redskinsfan92 was saying earlier about confidence being related to experience. Good looking people tend to have positive social experiences, so they gain confidence in social situations. But there are still attractive people who lack confidence.

 

[Atom Smasher]

Half smile

 

[biggoal]

Well, you and Atom Smasher mean it that way, apparently. Not so sure that "everyone" in the PUA world means it that way.
Meanwhile, in the real world (as opposed to a pickup forum), this is how smirk is defined, these are the first entries that come up when you Google "smirk definition". I suppose the Cambridge version comes closest to what you are saying. But notice that in most of these definitions, there is a negative connotation to the smirk, a sense of conceit or smugness. Which is what I think of every time someone brings up smirking.

a smug, conceited, or silly smile (Google Dictionary)

to smile in an affected or smug manner https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/smirk

a smile that expresses satisfaction or pleasure about having done something or knowing something that is not known by someone else
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/smirk

to smile in a conceited, knowing, or annoyingly complacent way https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/smirk

A smirk is specific kind of smile, one that suggests self-satisfaction, smugness, or even pleasure at someone else's unhappiness or misfortune. https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/smirk

to smile in an affected, smug, or offensively familiar way. https://www.dictionary.com/browse/smirk


Not so sure I would call Russell Wilson unattractive, not that I'm any judge. Anyway, there are always outliers, and besides it's not my theory. But the point is that good looking people get a lot of positive reinforcement, so they tend to have confidence. It's kind of like what @redskinsfan92 was saying earlier about confidence being related to experience. Good looking people tend to have positive social experiences, so they gain confidence in social situations. But there are still attractive people who lack confidence.

Hell I wouldn't mind looking like a rat like Brad marchand if I could make 7 million a year.

President Trump for example is not attractive, rush Limbaugh certainly isnt and they got high confidence levels and top notch younger hb women. They might be ugly but due to their status and money they got tremendous confidence.

Do you think Rush Limbaugh cares about his ugly appearance? NO! he can laugh while he has multi millions and a far younger hb9 wife while most of us chumps have to hit the gym and use game and go for hb7 left overs.

If you're like Trump born into money for example and status you dont need looks if you're a guy to be confident. I mean trump oozes confidence and hes never been fit and athletic.

Now if your a fat ugly woman born into money you're screwed because guys go for looks.

One advantage about being a man is that at least women use other factors than just looks.

Even if you're a lardball but have money you can get a decent girl. Granted probably digging for some gold but it can be done.

I see a lot of ugly lardballs here in fl with decent looking women so obviously there is something other than looks that turns them on.

 

[biggoal]

Rush Limbaugh was an average looking guy, as a young adult, except for his weight problem, which blossomed into full blown morbid obesity. Now, he's old, fat, and bald. Pushing 70 isn't something he can help. I don't know if he could have done anything about his hairloss, other than possibly something similar to what President Trump did. Rush, definitely didn't need to become a lard-ass, though; that's 100% on him. If Rush had been in shape as a young man, i don't thing he would've been "ugly," though. His ugliness is self-inflicted, but as a radio guy, he didn't suffer much for it, and wasn't and isn't motivated to much about it. Essentially, I'd say his attitude is correct, in that he doesn't think too much about his appearance, and if he'd been sufficiently physically active, throughout his life, he wouldn't have needed to. He's just carried not giving a sh!t to a grotesque extreme, but, like Orson Wells, it's his problem, and it doesn't really seem to bother him.

President Trump, on the other hand, was 6'3", handsome, and very athletic, as a young man. He didn't maintain his athleticism, and went a little crazy with his hair. Now, of course, he's in his 70s and a bit too chunky, but he still isn't "ugly." That's a bit like Bill Maher looking at Turmp's yearbook photo from New York Military Academy and making fun of his ears. Should he have stayed in better shape and found something better to do with his hair, years ago? Sure, but "ugly"? C'mon.

Maybe I shouldn't say trump was ugly but certainly not really above average. Trump even has admitted in his life he doesn't workout much. Even Limbaugh when he was young wasnt that good looking. I see guys far better looking than them everyday.

Also interesting but trump's previous wives were not that hot looking. Nothing like Melania is. Why do you think trump didnt marry the hottest girls before Melania?

 

[AJ84]

Hell I wouldn't mind looking like a rat like Brad marchand if I could make 7 million a year.

President Trump for example is not attractive, rush Limbaugh certainly isnt and they got high confidence levels and top notch younger hb women. They might be ugly but due to their status and money they got tremendous confidence.

Do you think Rush Limbaugh cares about his ugly appearance? NO! he can laugh while he has multi millions and a far younger hb9 wife while most of us chumps have to hit the gym and use game and go for hb7 left overs.

If you're like Trump born into money for example and status you dont need looks if you're a guy to be confident. I mean trump oozes confidence and hes never been fit and athletic.

Now if your a fat ugly woman born into money you're screwed because guys go for looks.

One advantage about being a man is that at least women use other factors than just looks.

Even if you're a lardball but have money you can get a decent girl. Granted probably digging for some gold but it can be done.

I see a lot of ugly lardballs here in fl with decent looking women so obviously there is something other than looks that turns them on.

In the examples of men you provided. They all have wealth and fame. Do you think Brad would have that wife if he pumped gas for a living? Do you think most NHL players would have hot wives if they were average joes? Do you know how fast some pro-athletes burn through their earnings (several file for bankruptcy)? Do you know what the divorce rate is for pro athletes after they retire? Around 80%.
Do you think Trump would have Melania if he was an average joe? Why did Harvey Weinstein’s wife do a 180 and leave him after having his back when he was first accused of sexual assault? When it hurt her fashion business (that his money and connections helped start). There are rumours that Limbaugh’s wife is cheating on him with young athletes. These women who marry old unattractive men are most likely in it for the money and probably have hot young guys on the side to actually enjoy sex in between having to stomach sleeping with fat old men.

They are attracted to the money and the lifestyle and when that’s gone, so are they.
This is a tale as old as time. I really don’t think it’s anything to look up to. Unless, you want a gold digger wife who is using you, cheating on you, and only sticking around pretending to like you on the condition that you keep that wallet open.

There’s genuine attraction to the man, then there’s attraction to what she can get out of that man. Do you really want to be used by a woman who fakes liking you? Is the bar that low?