If you are failing with women, here's why...

[zekko]

I figured I might as well stop letting them get away with their sh!t and call them out on everything. Little did I know that women would look at me in a whole new light and would give obvious IOIs, something I rarely saw before.

I've always said that every guy has his own individual issues when it comes to women, and some have more than others. Some guys can change one little thing that was a sticking point for them, and other guys need complete overhauls. Apparently this was a real game changer for you.

For me, I just can't recall that many women trying to "get away with their sh!t" with me. I mean, if you stay with someone long enough, something will pop up, but it's not like there's something that comes up every five minutes or so. It might be several dates before a girl does something disrespectful, and if it's earlier than that they're probably "next" material. Like I said though, everybody's different. That's one of my issues with PUA material, there's so much of a "one size fits all" aspect to it.

That’s why the slight smirk is so effective. It’s a semi-smile indicating reserve on your part.

Yeah, I don't smirk I know women are different, but if some guy smirked at me, he'd get a punch in the mouth - IF I were a violent person. Which I'm not, currently. I did go through a period in my 20s when I was pretty aggressive though. I don't know why I have such a negative reaction to smirking. I can't stand narcissists, I guess.

 

[Atom Smasher]

I think the word “smirk” as used here in the community is more of a half, non-commital smile as opposed to a wise-guy smirk. It comes off as friendly.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

Seriously though, I'd be curious to see an example of an opening gambit that subtly yet firmly lets her know that she needs to work to impress you. Especially if she's not misbehaving.

 

[zekko]

If you mean the "Who says I want to see you again?" part, she was kind of misbehaving there by not only presuming she was the prize, and that he wanted to see her again, but also trying to make him qualify himself by saying she would see him if he knew the Freud quote. And anyway, he said he was just joking, that of course he wanted to see her again, so he walked it back.

 

[Bokanovsky]

I agree with the general sentiment but would add a caveat: you attempts to qualify must be subtle and not come across as arrogance or self-centredness. And that can be a fine line.

 

[Bokanovsky]

This would not work with most women in real life. Most women are very insecure. This is especially true of attractive women, and women in professional fields (who spend their lives trying to prove themselves as men's equals). She would have to either be significantly below you on the looks/social scale or already be heavily invested in you in order for that kind of humour to work.

 

[Bokanovsky]

To further add to my previous post, one thing that I've noticed about human psychology (which is true of both men and women) is that people do not like to be treated in manner that could be perceived as disrespectful by their equals. This applies to humour and jokes as well. You are more likely to tolerate a "disrespectful" joke from your superiors (i.e. your manager at work) or, conversely, someone who is way below you on the social scale, where it's obvious that the joker is not a threat (think a court jester making a joke about the king).

In the dating context, you have to get to a level where a woman is eating out of your hand before you can get away with making disparaging jokes.

 

[zekko]

I think the word “smirk” as used here in the community is more of a half, non-commital smile as opposed to a wise-guy smirk. It comes off as friendly.

This is another issue I have with PUA material. In the real world, a smirk indicates smugness and conceit. But in the PUA world:

A jerk is really a nice guy.
A nice guy is really a jerk.
An @sshole is only described with positive traits, never negative. He stands up for himself and goes after what he wants. Gee, what an @ss. Now a smirk is friendly.

The most admired role models are "Legit dirtbags" and "retarded fvckboys". Yikes.

 

[Trump]

What works for me is a middle ground, I mostly make fun of myself and right after make fun of them.

Something like "damn Im dressed like a beggar compared to those around us", "thankfully you are dressed even worse than me so they will mostly look at you".

Wow.

I would never put her down, or myself down for that matter. How does that help the situation?

In my opinion, if you are going to TEASE them, you have to catch them on their own words. Then they may get red faced or understand the man she is with has a brain and does OK.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

This is another issue I have with PUA material. In the real world, a smirk indicates smugness and conceit. But in the PUA world:

A jerk is really a nice guy.
A nice guy is really a jerk.
An @sshole is only described with positive traits, never negative. He stands up for himself and goes after what he wants. Gee, what an @ss. Now a smirk is friendly.

The most admired role models are "Legit dirtbags" and "retarded fvckboys". Yikes.

They flipped everything inverted. Making skanky sluts the top target.

 

[Who Dares Win]

Wow.

I would never put her down, or myself down for that matter. How does that help the situation?

In my opinion, if you are going to TEASE them, you have to catch them on their own words. Then they may get red faced or understand the man she is with has a brain and does OK.

Its not putting down if done with the right tone of voice, there is a fine line between irony and self deprecation and Im quit good at walking on it.

 

[Atom Smasher]

This is another issue I have with PUA material. In the real world, a smirk indicates smugness and conceit. But in the PUA world:

A jerk is really a nice guy.
A nice guy is really a jerk.
An @sshole is only described with positive traits, never negative. He stands up for himself and goes after what he wants. Gee, what an @ss. Now a smirk is friendly. The most admired role models are "Legit dirtbags" and "retarded fvckboys". Yikes.

I think you tend to take these terms a bit too literally. The community uses a certain shorthand for purposes of brevity. It’s up to us to realize that things aren’t really so formulaic; that we need to “humanize” them within our own personalities to make them practical.

The way I write about judging women, some guys must think of me as one of those Renaissance paintings of God thundering down judgement upon his hapless creation, stone tablets in-hand.

I’m reality, judging them is shorthand for holding them accountable and embarrassing them for their bratty, entitled behavior. They know they can’t get away with that stuff with such a man and they RESPECT him for that.

We’ve all talked at length here about how jerks and @ssholes are not desirable to emulate, but rather that women TOLERATE their @ssholeness for a time because these guys exhibit manly traits that women crave. But the problem remains that @ssholes and jerks are forever @ssholes and jerks, and that is a certain recipe for a toxic relationship.

What I and a few others here advocate is taking the POSITIVE aspects of such men and rejecting the negative. What you get from that is a well-balanced, respected leader.

No disrespect here, zekko. I just think you might be taking the shorthand and making it a bit too literal.

What is the whole point of what I am advocating here? Simply that most men go on dates with the de facto understanding that they are “all in” with this woman before she even proves herself to him. Women sense this and hate it.
Instead, a man should clearly be critical in his thinking and require her to prove herself.

Once I started doing this, all my interactions remind me of Sally in The Great Pumpkin, with little cartoon hearts pouring out of her when she’s with Linus.

To get to that point, a man needs to demonstrate self-respect and a reasonable expectation that a woman will treat him with respect and a submissive attitude. All women will submit to a well-rounded man, except for the militant feminist. And even some of them can’t help but be attracted. It’s hard-wired in.

I can’t help but think this is part of the reason I found such a great woman, who is now my fiancé. Zero stress, zero sh!t tests, submissive yet intelligent, lives to take care of me. There are such women out there, and there are happy, healthy marriages. However, they are as rare as can be in this day.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

I think you tend to take these terms a bit too literally. The community uses a certain shorthand for purposes of brevity. It’s up to us to realize that things aren’t really so formulaic; that we need to “humanize” them within our own personalities to make them practical.

The way I write about judging women, some guys must think of me as one of those Renaissance paintings of God thundering down judgement upon his hapless creation, stone tablets in-hand.

I’m reality, judging them is shorthand for holding them accountable and embarrassing them for their bratty, entitled behavior. They know they can’t get away with that stuff with such a man and they RESPECT him for that.

We’ve all talked at length here about how jerks and @ssholes are not desirable to emulate, but rather that women TOLERATE their @ssholeness for a time because these guys exhibit manly traits that women crave. But the problem remains that @ssholes and jerks are forever @ssholes and jerks, and that is a certain recipe for a toxic relationship.

What I and a few others here advocate is taking the POSITIVE aspects of such men and rejecting the negative. What you get from that is a well-balanced, respected leader.

No disrespect here, zekko. I just think you might be taking the shorthand and making it a bit too literal.

What is the whole point of what I am advocating here? Simply that most men go on dates with the de facto understanding that they are “all in” with this woman before she even proves herself to him. Women sense this and hate it.
Instead, a man should clearly be critical in his thinking and require her to prove herself.

Once I started doing this, all my interactions remind me of Sally in The Great Pumpkin, with little cartoon hearts pouring out of her when she’s with Linus.

To get to that point, a man needs to demonstrate self-respect and a reasonable expectation that a woman will treat him with respect and a submissive attitude. All women will submit to a well-rounded man, except for the militant feminist. And even some of them can’t help but be attracted. It’s hard-wired in.

I can’t help but think this is part of the reason I found such a great woman, who is now my fiancé. Zero stress, zero sh!t tests, submissive yet intelligent, lives to take care of me. There are such women out there, and there are happy, healthy marriages. However, they are as rare as can be in this day.

When you shut down their bs with you they will come to you for dyck if they want that and harrass a blue pill or game unaware guy.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

If you are succeeding with women, here's why...




You are CHAD. /Thread.

Big money and a big dyck, it's no secret

 

[Trump]

You don't try to kiss any guy's a$$ on this forum, so why would you do it to a woman?

Not on this forum, but in real life, of course you treat a woman better than a guy. A woman can give a man sex and a kid. Am I missing something ?

You’ll telling me you would act the same way with a 6’4 - 42 year black guy as with a 5’7 - 28 year old hot actress? No guy with a half a mind would do this.

There are guys on this forum that literally have their heads up women's a$$es, and when you call then out on it they dismiss YOU and not the woman, despite her acting like a total b1tch. Lol. You see how upside down this looks?

You are supposed to appreciate constructive criticism and dismiss bad behavior, not the other way around.

Most guys' values are upside down. They worship the feminine goddess. They are not really here to hear advice. They just want to hear a better way to serve women. And when you don't enable pvssy behavior, they think there is something wrong with you.

For one last time, let me explain how VALUE works. Something that is valuable has a price. And often a high price. Your price should be high. You shouldn't be easily won over by an average basic attention wh0re. You should qualify her on qualities that you value. And it has to be genuine. You have to genuinely hold women to a standard and reward/punish them accordingly because you are a man of values, not because you are secretly a seducer trying to qualify women to fool them into thinking you are a valuable man.

Yes because women are what society and the system values.

You got Presidents, Politicans, Actors, Doctors, Lawyers, Directors, Surgeons, Farmers, Billionaires, powerful, powerful rich rich people who run the world and can destroy mankind with push of the button, completely valuing and loving women, their wives and children.

Then the regular, average men on this forum are told NOT to value them. Don’t that you show upside down that looks?

It’s like a realtor saying: “The City Assessment of your property is $1,000,000, but it’s only worth $800,000.” Well, go to the City to fix their Assessment, and THEN come talk to me. No way I would accept my property value is lower than what the CITY has valued it as.

I keep repeating myself, so suave cannot tell regular men not to to value women when the valuable men value them.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Not on this forum, but in real life, of course you treat a woman better than a guy. A woman can give a man sex and a kid. Am I missing something ?

You’ll telling me you would act the same way with a 6’4 - 42 year black guy as with a 5’7 - 28 year old hot actress? No guy with a half a mind would do this.



Yes because women are what society and the system values.

You got Presidents, Politicans, Actors, Doctors, Lawyers, Directors, Surgeons, Farmers, Billionaires, powerful, powerful rich rich people who run the world and can destroy mankind with push of the button, completely valuing and loving women, their wives and children.

Then the regular, average men on this forum are told NOT to value them. Don’t that you show upside down that looks?

It’s like a realtor saying: “The City Assessment of your property is $1,000,000, but it’s only worth $800,000.” Well, go to the City to fix their Assessment, and THEN come talk to me. No way I would accept my property value is lower than what the CITY has valued it as.

I keep repeating myself, so suave cannot tell regular men not to to value women when the valuable men value them.

Sure it can. Because at the end of the day women have one or two guys they gotta hace it from and they make all the others pay. They desire somebody and hes not bending over backwards to get it.

 

[zekko]

No disrespect here, zekko. I just think you might be taking the shorthand and making it a bit too literal.

No offense taken. I probably do take things too literally sometimes. But I prefer that people say what they mean.

When gurus talk about adopting only the beneficial traits of jerks and such, I don't object so much to that. The only problem is a lot of times their followers misinterpret the message and actually aspire to be jerks. Which also brings up the question why gurus pick such questionable characters to set up as role models in the first place? If they're going for stereotypes, why not go for the "Successful Man", the "Suave Man", the "Don Juan", or "Boardroom CEO" or other type of leader? Shoot, even if they talked about being a "Player" or "Womanizer", that would be more respectable than a jerk. My favorite term is "c0cksman", myself.

Some guys actually do think women are only attracted to undesirable types. When these types put @ssholes on a pedestal, they are at least owning it. I've seen many characteristics where they define @ssholes as having only positive traits, and I always wonder how the guy got labeled an @sshole in the first place. Some say that it is women who put that label on them, because they don't supplicate. That can be true, but if women only respect guys who don't supplicate, then why insult them?

It was Owen from RSD who said he can't pull if he doesn't put on his "retarded fvckboy" persona. He says he doesn't want to act like that, but if he wants to pull, he has to. Either he's a one trick pony (which I doubt, because he's a bright guy in many ways), or he's way too cynical. Or it's some sort of twisted sales technique. I don't claim to be the best guy with women here by any means, but I've never had to act like a "retarded fvckboy" to get laid.

 

[worldknown]

You are correct, but In my case it wasn't so much having confidence as it was just not caring anymore. It was basically my Hail Mary pass in a sense. I had nothing to lose, so I figured I might as well stop letting them get away with their sh!t and call them out on everything. Little did I know that women would look at me in a whole new light and would give obvious IOIs, something I rarely saw before.

Men, think of most of the dates you've been on. You reeked of totally accepting her and hoping to be accepted by her. Real magic happens when you go in undecided about her. It's a real turn-on for women.

Never forget that they deeply desire a man they can look up to. Meditate on that thought. They want a man who has no problem living without her acceptance and approval.

As I mention in my OP, it's one of the paradoxes of life. To be attractive to women, be obvious in judging them, meaning, hold them accountable for their words and actions.

Instead of appearing mean and undesirable to them, you will appear strong, centered, fun to be around, and friendly. Every interaction with women should be fun for you, first and foremost, and fun for the people around you secondarily. Men who pull this off are men who are perceived to have great charisma.

How do you hold them accountable for their words and actions? I think there is some confusion here in the community regarding the two ways to accountability:
1) withdraw your attention
2) call her out on it

Now when you call her out on it, in a sense you are showing her that she GOT to you. Your thoughts on the difference in these two methods?

 

[AttackFormation]

How do you hold them accountable for their words and actions? I think there is some confusion here in the community regarding the two ways to accountability:
1) withdraw your attention
2) call her out on it

Now when you call her out on it, in a sense you are showing her that she GOT to you. Your thoughts on the difference in these two methods?

Imo it depends on the respect between you two.

- If she more or less respects you and is actually longing to be put in place, then I think you can call her out on it. She may consciously or subconsciously act bratty because she wants you to put her in place and show her your backbone, and this may be done playfully by either of you or not. A woman like this craves your masculinity. I think any man here reading this will know what I'm talking about with this.

- If she never had any respect for you (like if she is cluster B), you really need to walk away.

- If she used to have but has lost her respect for you, I'm not sure - don't really have experience with that. But from what experienced older guys have said here I would think once a woman has truly lost her respect for you, it's better to just walk away as the relation may be FUBARed.

So come to think of it, I think in no case would I withdraw attention. I either put her in place or I walk away.

 

[bcude]

Attention is the most valuable currency there is when dealing with women, so it would be foolish not to use it.
I like the anology of treating women like dogs. You love your dog and reward it when it behaves and punish your dog when it doesn't behave. You hold it accountable for its actions by either call it out on it, withdrawing attention or both depending on the severity of the issue, so it will learn where your boundaries are. When it crosses a line with you it needs to know it immediately and be put into place, it doesn't matter if the dog "got to you", since you stand up for yourself and live your life according to your standards, which is your only option if you don't want to live a miserable life where it ****s on your table as soon as your leave the house and you will soon be demoted to the cleaning boy the dog can step all over. What's next, ****ting in your bed when you make love? The dog will feel safe and comfortable knowing you have boundaries and love you for it, just like women. It's very simple in theory but most guys have problems doing just this when they shower the woman with flowers before she even qualified herself to you trying to buy her affection, or even worse, when they try to clear their bad conscience about something which has the opposite effect.

Walking away should be something she just knows you're capable of doing all the time, as soon as she doesn't live up to your standards. It will be communicated through your mannerism and everything you do covertly, because it's your default mindset and something you truly feel and not some line you threaten her with when she acts out.