Is it really worth all the effort.

[Suave88]

Wow. This post of mine sure got a lot of response. Maybe everyone’s attitude is shaped by how long you’ve been At this ridiculous game. First I dealt with a pain in the ass wife for 17 years. Now single for 12. Yeah I guess I’m burned out by it all.

And no it’s not just women from online that are being difficult as one poster pointers out. I think women have convinced themselves they dont need men so the difficulty level is raised. If they were honest about it they would admit they need a man very badly.

They do need man, but not you. They make it hard for the guys they do not want and easy for the guy they want.

 

[John9999]

They do need man, but not you. They make it hard for the guys they do not want and easy for the guy they want.

So true. Me ex fiancé of 3 years ago made it very easy. Responsive, wanted to see me all the time, etc. but guess what, it started with a broken first date, go figure.

 

[Desdinova]

And meeting women though social circles isn’t work?

It's a lot less work than sending off dozens of messages, dealing with all the responses, and then getting either zero or one date. Too much effort for such little reward. It's much easier in social circles and the numbers are better. If there's four women in a social circle, there's a good chance I can date one of them.

You have to find a social circle, the circle has to accept you, you have to meet up with this group every so often, you have to enjoy the activity, you have to spend money, you have to make sure no one in the group bad mouths you, and then you have make sure there are decent looking single available childless women who are young enough to want to have kids in the group and want to connect with you.

I've never found this to be work. If you're interesting, funny and confident, it's easy to get into a social circle and have people like you. Even if there's no single women in the group, eventually somebody's GF is going to bring their single friend along.

Come on, all women know you want to have sex with them. At least online the men are straight up about it.

Do yourself a favour and make a female account on an online dating site. That is the only way to see the reality of what women deal with. If she gets 30 messages a day, she has to spend time going through all of them and filter out whatever she doesn't want. When she responds to a few messages, those get buried in the 30 messages that come in the next day. She has to fit online dating management into her daily routine which includes work, friend, shopping, text messages, facebook, nail appointments, etc. It doesn't matter if online men are straight up about it, she's not going to be able to handle the volume of responses she gets. This is why men have to put in more effort when it comes to online dating. How is he going to be one of the 30 men who doesn't get filtered out? He has to make his subject line grab her attention, make his pictures appealing, make his messages worthy of response, and hopefully get her emotions doing something through the combination of everything.

If you have one single woman in a social circle, your competition level is lower and because you're part of the social circle, you've automatically got the approval of everyone else. With the exception of other single men in the group, your competition is virtually non-existent. Picking up the single woman in the group becomes very easy.

I’ve met decent stable girls online who don’t want the world handed to them. I’ve met girls in my social group who, after sleeping with me, want to sue me for $50,000,000.

You're going to get prizes and turds no matter where you meet women (mostly turds). If you enjoy doing online dating, then all the more power to you. Personally, I didn't like the experience. I'd rather be out having fun with other people while I'm meeting women.

 

[ubercat]

Yep that is the brutal truth. I ve had more arse than a public toilet seat. And been viciously rejected many times. You need a reset mate. 2 things a group whose company you enjoy. And rediscover your sense of fun. that's why I gamed. I enjoyed the intellectual stimulation of trying different things on different girls. You re too outcome focused. Use game to get past the b1tch shield and get to know them as humans.

OLD is a wasteland now. Understand the odds are so stacked against you that it's only useful for practicing message game and first date basics. So couple of hours a week is ok. Ideally while u r on the throne or waiting in a q.

 

[Suave88]

So true. Me ex fiancé of 3 years ago made it very easy. Responsive, wanted to see me all the time, etc. but guess what, it started with a broken first date, go figure.

Some times, even girls who play hard to get are crazy for you. But you need to learn the difference from some Bytch playing hard to get and the bytch that actually tells you no and wants nothing from you. They put up resitance to make it look like they are worth. Think about this. Do you want to marry a chick you can fvck on your first date. No, I dont think so.
They play hard but eventually give up. They have so many tests, but cannot test you all your life. Depending on how you behave They will test you.

They know you can eventually get tired.
We need to find that hard to get manual you talk about and read it. I am sure chicks have websites like us.
In military terms, this is called counterintelligence. In other words. The U.S
Counterintelligence learns from China intelligence and is prepared to defent the U.S. from China. So likewise, we need to learn how to bypass tests, how to predict a behavior and respond based on our experience or learning. It is good that we come from very different ages. The experienced can help the inexperienced. I learned a lot from Doubleyourdating. I am sure byches have same manuals. If you go online, you can read what chicks do. Learn to be players like us.
Now, the young girls sometimes know how to game you naturally, but others dont. The other who dont know ****, learn from family or from their own mistakes.

 

[Suave88]

Are you looking women in the eyes? Are you getting a rush when you cross eyes with a cutie? Are you smiling back if they smile at you? If not, you're missing all the excitement from it!

Yes it's work, but EVERYTHING is work, so stop complaining about that. It's the very attitude that it's not worth it that makes you so negative in the first place. It is what it is, just accept it and keep on truckin.

In my opinion, I don't smile. I keep my frame.

 

[Suave88]

It's a lot less work than sending off dozens of messages, dealing with all the responses, and then getting either zero or one date. Too much effort for such little reward. It's much easier in social circles and the numbers are better. If there's four women in a social circle, there's a good chance I can date one of them.



I've never found this to be work. If you're interesting, funny and confident, it's easy to get into a social circle and have people like you. Even if there's no single women in the group, eventually somebody's GF is going to bring their single friend along.



Do yourself a favour and make a female account on an online dating site. That is the only way to see the reality of what women deal with. If she gets 30 messages a day, she has to spend time going through all of them and filter out whatever she doesn't want. When she responds to a few messages, those get buried in the 30 messages that come in the next day. She has to fit online dating management into her daily routine which includes work, friend, shopping, text messages, facebook, nail appointments, etc. It doesn't matter if online men are straight up about it, she's not going to be able to handle the volume of responses she gets. This is why men have to put in more effort when it comes to online dating. How is he going to be one of the 30 men who doesn't get filtered out? He has to make his subject line grab her attention, make his pictures appealing, make his messages worthy of response, and hopefully get her emotions doing something through the combination of everything.

If you have one single woman in a social circle, your competition level is lower and because you're part of the social circle, you've automatically got the approval of everyone else. With the exception of other single men in the group, your competition is virtually non-existent. Picking up the single woman in the group becomes very easy.



You're going to get prizes and turds no matter where you meet women (mostly turds). If you enjoy doing online dating, then all the more power to you. Personally, I didn't like the experience. I'd rather be out having fun with other people while I'm meeting women.

Online dating does not work. It impersonal. It was made and sold to us so that the website owner can earn money from us and not to help us.

 

[zekko]

And I wAnt a committed relationship, isn’t that whAt the women SAY they want?

It's all right to want a committed relationship, just don't tell a woman that. If they're not in the same place you are, they will think you are needy and desperate. And women tend to reach this stage with a guy later than men do.

I respect that you want a relationship, that's a worthy goal.

You sure about that? I thought such things were looked down on here, "beta fag cuck provider" stuff and all.

 

[EyeOnThePrize]

It's incel advice because I'm saying it, not because it's objectively true?

It's incel because of the excuses you're putting forth as legit, nothing to do with you as a person.

If you look down the threads I think "Who Dares Win" started a thread that basically said the same thing. Basically the smartphone and social media ruined everything and you can google search that online. Old style PUA from last decade is gone now. You could be charged for harassment if you approach girls like that. They actually have to like you and want you to approach them.

It's more competitive sure, but it hasn't 'ruined everything'. Confidence and resilience go a long way. PUA antics are a racket meant to take advantage of the socially awkward or insecure. PUA is putting the cart before the horse. If you focus on personal growth, self sufficiency, and challenging yourself you'll have better luck. if you simply make it a point to go out to events you're interested in on a regular basis you're bound to get comfortable and start talking to people.

How many fugly puny guys do you personally know with hot girls? Maybe there is something hidden in that exchange you don't know about? (i.e. he has allot of money and she's a gold-digger or she is using him for a rebound because she just broke-up and he was her orbitor, maybe they are related?) Seeing two people together in public doesn't really mean anything in most relationships are transitory (i.e. honeymoon phase, then you have other phases, etc....)

It really doesn't matter what your financial position is or what phase of the relationship you're in. What matters most is what you think of yourself. You may have nothing but if you believe yourself to be on a good path, if you're confident in your abilities to bring fulfillment into your life it brings a natural relaxed king like attitude, and women can't help but feel attracted because they sense your feelings of high value.

Nobody will say there is a free lunch. You just don't want to work too hard when you know someone else is getting a free lunch with the same girl.

You don't understand. There is NO free lunch. That guy that's banging her is wasting time that he could otherwise spend investing in himself.

What people, like the OP will complain is that they might resent the fact they have to put in that much work to get a low ROI while the same girl is fodder to a Chad type guy and throwing herself at him.

OPs complaint is grounded in a child like mentality where he wants things without putting in the work for them. Sure you may do something thats inefficient for getting what you want. The best you can do is recalibrate once you notice.

The onus is on you to be self sufficient and bring the people, activities, and things that you want into your life. No one is going to do that for you. Personally I'm picky af about who I hang out with. 'show me your friends and I'll show you your future'. My point is complaining about women and life in general is like walking into a shoe store and being shocked to find a shoelace on the floor. Be fluid, adapt, and realize that everything can be used to your advantage. Every challenge is meant to be overcome.

 

[corrector]

If you focus on personal growth, self sufficiency, and challenging yourself you'll have better luck. if you simply make it a point to go out to events you're interested in on a regular basis you're bound to get comfortable and start talking to people.

Why don't you go into more detail about personal growth, self sufficiency and challenging yourself as it could be hackneyed if you just throw these fancy terms around. How would you differentiate what you are saying from blue-pill advice? Would you say blue-pill advice (i.e. "build and they will come") rings true than red-pill? You can say cart before the horse, but that's what red-pill concepts are all about.
Why did we go from blue-pill to red-pill in the first place then?

It really doesn't matter what your financial position is or what phase of the relationship you're in. What matters most is what you think of yourself. You may have nothing but if you believe yourself to be on a good path, if you're confident in your abilities to bring fulfillment into your life it brings a natural relaxed king like attitude, and women can't help but feel attracted because they sense your feelings of high value.

It matters to me with respect of the examples you put forward. You did not answer my initial question so I'm assuming then you do not personally know any ugly guys who are with hot girls and just saw these couples in public without knowing their story. Are you saying that you are reading into the lives of strangers you do not know and are assuming that the hot girls choose the ugly guys because they believed in themselves that they are in a good path? Did you interview them? Is this what the girl told you? Can you read minds?

You don't understand. There is NO free lunch. That guy that's banging her is wasting time that he could otherwise spend investing in himself.

No he's not, he's getting a dopamine rush and is increasing his testosterone level. If that's the end goal of all the hard work the OP is talking about, then I don't think the OP would be complaining about "wasting his time" getting easy lays.

Is anyone on sosuave complaining that its too easy to get laid and its wasting their time?

OPs complaint is grounded in a child like mentality where he wants things without putting in the work for them. Sure you may do something thats inefficient for getting what you want. The best you can do is recalibrate once you notice.

...and the OP can recalibrate by believing in himself, being self sufficient, personal growth and challenging himself?

The onus is on you to be self sufficient and bring the people, activities, and things that you want into your life. No one is going to do that for you. Personally I'm picky af about who I hang out with. 'show me your friends and I'll show you your future'. My point is complaining about women and life in general is like walking into a shoe store and being shocked to find a shoelace on the floor. Be fluid, adapt, and realize that everything can be used to your advantage. Every challenge is meant to be overcome.

I must be pickier than you are then since I don't hang around with anyone in my age group, but I'm not complaining. The internet and library has made it easier to access movies so that's a good thing so I don't need to hang-out because I can watch people act and live vicariously instead. Isn't that more fun than hanging-out?

 

[EyeOnThePrize]

Why don't you go into more detail about personal growth, self sufficiency and challenging yourself as it could be hackneyed if you just throw these fancy terms around. How would you differentiate what you are saying from blue-pill advice? Would you say blue-pill advice (i.e. "build and they will come") rings true than red-pill? You can say cart before the horse, but that's what red-pill concepts are all about.
Why did we go from blue-pill to red-pill in the first place then?

blue pill advice is more along the lines of a disney fairy tale, find the one, fight to keep them, convince them to stay, cry in their arms. i would say honing self reliance and growing through challenges are more red pill, but it's general life knowledge really.

It matters to me with respect of the examples you put forward. You did not answer my initial question so I'm assuming then you do not personally know any ugly guys who are with hot girls and just saw these couples in public without knowing their story. Are you saying that you are reading into the lives of strangers you do not know and are assuming that the hot girls choose the ugly guys because they believed in themselves that they are in a good path? Did you interview them? Is this what the girl told you? Can you read minds?

it doesn't matter because you're missing the point. to answer your question i work with loads of skinny scrawny feminine guys that have decent to hot girlfriends. i interact with them all day every day. they don't make a lot of money but they also tend to have a toxic relationship or don't wear the pants(from what i can tell). some seem healthy but what do i know. my point was it's common. getting a girlfriend is a really trivial thing. it's more about WHY you want a girlfriend(out of insecurity? for convenience? for starting a family?) and how you're going about it(studying PUAs rather than CEOs).

No he's not, he's getting a dopamine rush and is increasing his testosterone level. If that's the end goal of all the hard work the OP is talking about, then I don't think the OP would be complaining about "wasting his time" getting easy lays.

that dopamine is not going to pay the bills. when you ejaculate your body floods you with feminine hormones so that you lose interest in sex immediately. the diick is basically built like a plunger/squirt gun. during sex the forward and back motion pumps the jizz of previous lays out of her, then when you nut your body chemically makes you stop so that you don't plunge your own jizz out.

Is anyone on sosuave complaining that its too easy to get laid and its wasting their time?

why don't you sleep with drug addicts or fat desperate or ugly women? there are plenty of them that would love to bang you all night long. people talk about 10s not treating them like men when they haven't put in the work to be men. and it's absolutely possible to use a woman to the point that you neglect your work, school, and health. in fact that's what happens to most men, they supplicate to a women at the expense of their personal growth. some for sex and some simply for attention. the end result is a weak man, emotionally and sometimes physically dependent, the exact opposite of resilient and self sufficient.

the ideal man does not even think about women. in fact they are a nuisance to him because what he finds truly enthralling is the infinite complexity of the world around him and his experience with the various skills and crafts he chooses to hone.

...and the OP can recalibrate by believing in himself, being self sufficient, personal growth and challenging himself?

sure. the OP realizes that his current ways are inefficient, thus this thread of frustration. hopefully he'll get the message that he needs to refine his social abilities like any skill. he needs to make smarter moves and understand that his best work will always come from a peaceful mind, not a frustrated one. and we can't understate the importance of patience.

I must be pickier than you are then since I don't hang around with anyone in my age group, but I'm not complaining. The internet and library has made it easier to access movies so that's a good thing so I don't need to hang-out because I can watch people act and live vicariously instead. Isn't that more fun than hanging-out?

not to me. leisure doesn't really make me feel satisfied unless i feel i've earned it, and even then it's short lived. i feel the most satisfaction when i'm continually giving something my best effort. from experience i know that my endeavors will naturally bear fruit. the key is picking the proper fruit to grow.

 

[corrector]

blue pill advice is more along the lines of a disney fairy tale, find the one, fight to keep them, convince them to stay, cry in their arms. i would say honing self reliance and growing through challenges are more red pill, but it's general life knowledge really.

No, blue-pill advice is that if you work hard, and follow the rules, and make something out of yourself so that you can support yourself and your own family that you'll end up with a proper woman to build a family with. An example is if you don't deal with any woman, focus on your studies, become a great engineer or end up making money in a decent 9-5 full-time job that you'll end up marrying someone decent.

What you are talking about does not mention or sound like the "Play by the rules". I think you are omitting aspects of the blue-pill so that you don't actually sound like a re-packaged blue-pill and focusing on the more unsavoury aspects.

Maybe all the pill advice has an upside and a downside. The idea is if you set up as a provider to take care of a woman that you'll attract a decent woman who is not a gold-digger. You have to obviously make more money or have a higher status career than she does and a puzzle will fit into the jigsaw that you have.

Does that sound blue-pill enough?

it doesn't matter because you're missing the point. to answer your question i work with loads of skinny scrawny feminine guys that have decent to hot girlfriends. i interact with them all day every day. they don't make a lot of money but they also tend to have a toxic relationship or don't wear the pants(from what i can tell). some seem healthy but what do i know. my point was it's common. getting a girlfriend is a really trivial thing. it's more about WHY you want a girlfriend(out of insecurity? for convenience? for starting a family?) and how you're going about it(studying PUAs rather than CEOs).

I liked the experience of having a soulmate experience with ex-girlfriend in 2012, and some aspects of having a girlfriend (before we got married) in 2014 were also nice. There is currently no plan in place as to how I am going about it.

why don't you sleep with drug addicts or fat desperate or ugly women? there are plenty of them that would love to bang you all night long.

Because I'm not married to them and it's against my religion to have sex with someone I'm not married to.

people talk about 10s not treating them like men when they haven't put in the work to be men. and it's absolutely possible to use a woman to the point that you neglect your work, school, and health. in fact that's what happens to most men, they supplicate to a women at the expense of their personal growth. some for sex and some simply for attention. the end result is a weak man, emotionally and sometimes physically dependent, the exact opposite of resilient and self sufficient.

Again, if you are going by blue-book thought, then you have to remember the upside. If you build then they will come. Work is neglected because the job is not one you are passionate enough about. School is neglected because the wrong major was selected rather than the one you really want. Your health is neglected because of bad choices. If you have a job you are passionate about and select a course of study that you really want and are good at, then it's unlikely that any woman is going to be able to distract anyone from that.

Failing your studies or not having a work ethic is teenage nonsense. Adult people don't make decisions like that as it's not blue-pill. It's disqualified from being blue-pill.

You don't play by the rules and work hard to make something out of your life, then you don't get girls.

The red-pill was a phase last decade that fizzled out that said all you need is game and know the right buttons to press in a woman and she'll be eating out of your hand. Clearly that doesn't work and I think it's all blue-pill or black-pill stuff now.

 

[EyeOnThePrize]

No, blue-pill advice is that if you work hard, and follow the rules, and make something out of yourself so that you can support yourself and your own family that you'll end up with a proper woman to build a family with. An example is if you don't deal with any woman, focus on your studies, become a great engineer or end up making money in a decent 9-5 full-time job that you'll end up marrying someone decent.

What you are talking about does not mention or sound like the "Play by the rules". I think you are omitting aspects of the blue-pill so that you don't actually sound like a re-packaged blue-pill and focusing on the more unsavoury aspects.

Maybe all the pill advice has an upside and a downside. The idea is if you set up as a provider to take care of a woman that you'll attract a decent woman who is not a gold-digger. You have to obviously make more money or have a higher status career than she does and a puzzle will fit into the jigsaw that you have.

Does that sound blue-pill enough?



I liked the experience of having a soulmate experience with ex-girlfriend in 2012, and some aspects of having a girlfriend (before we got married) in 2014 were also nice. There is currently no plan in place as to how I am going about it.



Because I'm not married to them and it's against my religion to have sex with someone I'm not married to.



Again, if you are going by blue-book thought, then you have to remember the upside. If you build then they will come. Work is neglected because the job is not one you are passionate enough about. School is neglected because the wrong major was selected rather than the one you really want. Your health is neglected because of bad choices. If you have a job you are passionate about and select a course of study that you really want and are good at, then it's unlikely that any woman is going to be able to distract anyone from that.

Failing your studies or not having a work ethic is teenage nonsense. Adult people don't make decisions like that as it's not blue-pill. It's disqualified from being blue-pill.

You don't play by the rules and work hard to make something out of your life, then you don't get girls.

The red-pill was a phase last decade that fizzled out that said all you need is game and know the right buttons to press in a woman and she'll be eating out of your hand. Clearly that doesn't work and I think it's all blue-pill or black-pill stuff now.

you're too obsessed with the semantics of blue and red pill. building a great life for yourself is not blue or red, it's common sense. if we're going to apply definitions to red and blue pill then i would hope it's in the context of relationships. blue pill is one-itis, red pill is becoming aware of the feminine imperative. they are not solutions, simply perspectives.

you do not setup yourself as the provider for anyone else but yourself. making money, creating a comfortable life for yourself, and exercising your full potential is actually what draws women to you. women only seem to appear effortlessly because they make themselves known. they catch your attention and let all their walls down for you because they're in seduction mode. you can certainly make an effort and increase your chances, but working on your own life is what will most drastically affect the caliber of women you can pull and how long they stay.

once you feel like sacrificing for something bigger than yourself in the most intimate sense and to prolong your bloodline you can take on the challenge of a partner and kids.

you can certainly get girls with gimmicks but it'll eat away at your soul if used incorrectly.

 

[corrector]

you're too obsessed with the semantics of blue and red pill. building a great life for yourself is not blue or red, it's common sense. if we're going to apply definitions to red and blue pill then i would hope it's in the context of relationships. blue pill is one-itis, red pill is becoming aware of the feminine imperative. they are not solutions, simply perspectives.

It's blue pill because of threads posted on here by other people who have stayed away from women, kept to their studies, make six-figure incomes and then complain they are not getting high-quality girls but the types that either have kids or are settling down to look for a beta-provider while thinking the girl is a saint because of their own projection (i.e. inexperience). Isn't that the blue-pill narrative these days? What worked in the 50s and 60s does not work in the modern internet age along with the mobile devices.

you do not setup yourself as the provider for anyone else but yourself. making money, creating a comfortable life for yourself, and exercising your full potential is actually what draws women to you. women only seem to appear effortlessly because they make themselves known. they catch your attention and let all their walls down for you because they're in seduction mode. you can certainly make an effort and increase your chances, but working on your own life is what will most drastically affect the caliber of women you can pull and how long they stay.

Yes, you become a beta-provider. By the way, unless you become a celebrity or something, nothing of what you said makes any sense because if nobody knows you, apart from how you look, then you are no better off either way. There is countless threads on here of people who have made it only translates to a situational type of confidence, at best, in their own environment but it doesn't translate outside that world. When it comes to the outside world, they are no better off and still have approach-anxiety. Even inside with situational confidence, you can get into all sorts of trouble, including potentially being sued for harassment or losing your job if you are not careful. So, all in all, I'm not seeing what you are saying is adding up (i.e. hey I got a great job, and six figure income and my own house, now I have my trophy wife). I'd like to see one thread where someone actually says that.