Co-Worker Problem, What Do You Guys Think?

[Logic85]

I have been working by my current employer for about 5 and half years now.
I have a very good reputation at work, everybody praises my work ethic and I am the Go-To guy to get things done.
In 2017, my Boss at that time hired a temporary worker to help me with the work.

The temporary female worker she hired, was very incompetent, following is the list of the things just on the top of my head.

-She always shows up at work late
-She never gets the work done and spends too much time being idle
-When you correct her mistakes, she goes ballistic and puts the fault on the other person
-She's always sick when it comes to Months Closing

The work ethic and poor performance in general, was causing me a lot of problem and this escalated between a month, so I talked to my superior and said that let's give her one more month and see what happens.

During the next month, she become more chaotic, started picking up fights with me, did not do the things she was appointed to, so basically she was in the discussion of being fired. Now my superior during that time left the company and the new superior joined in, so basically things went on like this for 2 more months, then I passed on the information to the new superior regarding her performance, since he's a new superior, instead of firing her, she took her out from my department and placed her in a different department, but she still sits a few inches away from me.

Now although this wasn't the decision I wanted him to take, I was still glad that she's out of my department. She's basically doing the same stuff there again, but nobody is complaining from their department, so I leave it at being their problem.

Now the current situation is, she is polluting the team-work by passing on bad rumours about be to other departments, basically she's on a revenge and trying to damage my reputation as much as she can. Just yesterday a woman from a different department to mine to inquire about something (who previously i had good normal relationships with) and started saying the following:

-You know (my name), i don't think we can work together (I answered to her : why is that?)
-I don't like the way you treat your co-workers in your department (I said: okay, good to know)
-You know I am a person who retaliates back if you do stuff to me (I said: Okay)

and then she left, then it just came to my mind, why does she think that she can't work with me, when she haven't worked with me at all, how can she come to that conclusion on her own, then it finally hit me, that she has been doing breaks with that other girl, during lunch breaks they are together, so basically she has been bad mouthing to her about me, I am actually surprised that she believed him too.

My new superior knows about her too, he doesn't like her either, i wrote him an E-Mail, because I couldn't stand this type of bullying, I told him that I previously wrote an E-mail regarding her trying to mix herself in my department and now she has extended her actions by passing rumours and trying to break the spirit of my department by doing such actions and told him the story about the woman that came to me from my department. In the end I wrote, if this happens one more time, I am personally going to stand up, go to her and give her a proper piece of my mind, I was surprised that my superior said the following "Yes I agree, you should do that, she needs it".

I thought to myself, is he scared of her? He's our superior / manager, why doesn't he say that to her.

She doesn't have a good reputation in general, many people know about it, but of course there are who fall prey to her false stories, which can't be helped.

Regardless, what do you guys think is the best course to take here?

P.S Don't tell me to go the HR and explain the problem there, because it doesn't matter in which country you live in, the HR is always the same, their interest doesn't lye with the employee but the employer's best interest.

So what would would you guys suggest is the best course here and the feedback on the whole scenario?

Thank you for your help in advance.

 

[fanatic22]

You have no power over her so yelling at her will probably cause her to spend even more time bad mouthing you. You also can’t underestimate how it’ll make the other office women feel like you’re yelling at a poor defenseless woman. If she’s sticky you need to make her your ally. Buy her lunch and mend the bridge. Next time she’s in the discussion to get fired happily vote her out.

 

[Logic85]

Actually all the "women" in our Finances team agree with me, since I am working more than 5 and half years in the company, most people know how I am and also know about her traits, it's just that instead of minding her own business, she's always putting her nose in mine.

You can't mend a bridge with someone like that, by mending bridges you are encouraging her behaviour, thats not the solution to the problem, but you are right about one thing, in the next discussion, I can vote her out.

 

[fanatic22]

Actually all the "women" in our Finances team agree with me, since I am working more than 5 and half years in the company, most people know how I am and also know about her traits, it's just that instead of minding her own business, she's always putting her nose in mine.

You can't mend a bridge with someone like that, by mending bridges you are encouraging her behaviour, thats not the solution to the problem, but you are right about one thing, in the next discussion, I can vote her out.

It’s great that you have the company’s best interests in mind. Unfortunately, that is not always rewarded. You need to have your own best interests in mind, especially if you rarely work with her now anyway. And, she is already turning other coworkers against you. If one is bold enough to literally confront you, there could be a dozen that quietly harbor ill-will towards you. If your manager is too scared to do something, maybe that should be a sign that she has more influence than you think.

 

[PeasantPlayer]

Working with people sucks

 

[RangerMIke]

Welcome to the wonderful world of working with women. If you think that is bad... try owning a company. My main bread and butter business has 11 full time employee all but three are women, and temps as needed mostly for short term (one year or less) contracts. First they are not all like this, in fact some of my best employees have been women, but ALL the good ones have been older women 50+. For a couple of reasons, 1st we are close to the same age, and I like to run things old school. I think they appreciate a certain level of professionalism, dress, and performance indicative of my generation. I do not tolerate tardiness period. I also have zero tolerance for disrespect to clients. Depending on their duties... I let them set their own schedules, but if you say are coming in a 9 am, then you better do it... My deputy/office manager is a women who is 63 and she's fantastic, when she retires she will be hard to replace. I pay them all very well, with full medical benefits and a very generous 401K. Because my compensation is above the market, everyone is motivated to behave and do their jobs.

However.... every problem employee I have ever had have been a women in her late 20s to early 40s. EVERYONE. I have never had any performance or work related issues with any men I've hired... really the only issue I had with men have been older, that had physical limitations that required accommodation, but they worked well within their limitations (i.e. I have one guy that can't be in a car for more than 3 hours because of back problems, one that is legally blind) Or younger men that quit and try to compete with me, taking clients with them... but many times these same clients come back... after they get a taste of less expensive service and inexperience costs.

I have been sued by employees 4 times in the last 10 years I've operated my business in my current city, all have been women 3 in their early 30s and one that is 72. Three were discrimination cases, 2 based on gender, 1 based on age. The other was a sexual harassment lawsuit a year ago when one woman claimed another male employee was being inappropriate, she also claimed that I knew that clients were harassing her and did nothing about it (hostile work environment). The three discrimination cases were easy all had been fired for well documented cases of violations of policy or poor performance and all cases were summarily dismissed. The Harassment case was different... and so enters the WARNING.

In today's world, these cases are VERY hard to win if they get to trial. You will have a majority of women on a jury, and the men that are there will be working class men who likely have bosses in the past they did not like, or they are blue pill simps ready to believe any chick that can cry on command on the stand. It was clear that a male employee did make advances towards her, and there was evidence that clients had been asking her out... she was in her early 30s, but looked like she was in her mid 20s.... she looked like Nell Hudson, really I never heard of this actress until my lawyer (who was a British citizen) said we were screwed because she looked like her... and OMG he's spot on... look her up and tell me looking at her face crying on the stand that I would not have been epic-ally fvcked.

My lawyer said there was no evidence myself or her supervisor knew anything about this which was true... we knew nothing about this. And she had no evidence that she told us, accept the day she came into my office crying that Reggie wouldn't leave her alone. He was warned to stay away from her and not communicate with her at all, but we did not fire him. He admitted he asked her out once a couple of years ago, and when she said she was engaged he backed off, then had 'heard' that she and her husband, who she had been married for only a year were split, he asked her out again... and then she went into a meltdown.... what this guy did was stupid, but I did not believe it was harassment, and legally it wasn't. But she claimed he had been doing this all along, and we did not discover until later when we got to review her evidence there were a couple of questionable e-mails that he had sent her in 2 years that under only the most LIBERAL interpretation could be considered sexual in nature. The most damning 'evidence' was an e-mail response he sent to her in regard to a request for help on a project. His response was "Don't worry I'll watch your backside ; )" The other was an e-mail when she was complaining about a client that was asking WAYYYY too much for work for what he was willing to pay. And his response back to her was "Man that guy has big balls asking for that, but not as big as mine." That was unprofessional and a violation of our policy, so when I got this I fired him. But until discovery neither I nor her supervisor had been aware of these messages. So there was no real evidence that we 'tolerated' a hostile work environment.

However, the judge agreed with the plaintiff and agreed to let this go to trial. Soooo my lawyer said even if she wins, which he said was likely with that innocent face on the stand... we could win on appeal because the judge's decision to let this go to trial was not based on any prevailing law. Then he told me what it would cost to get to that point, we ran the numbers and offered to settle the case for that amount, with the promise that we would not disclose the nature of this case and give her good recommendations, and pay the difference in salary for two years for any job she took if it was under a certain amount. I can't tell you, even anonymously, what it cost, but I will say that if she was smart, she could buy a house with it., but we pay it out over 10 years, but she also had a gag order on her as well for 10 years or the payment's would stop, but the money is in escrow so if something happens to the company what we owe her is secured debt.

I do not talk much about this for many reasons, I apologize for the length of this post but there is a lesson here. First, sexual harassment is a VERY serious thing... it can cost you real money, and the woman accusing you has automatic belief on her side, and if you work for a company and you personally are accused of this, then do not be surprised if your boss fires you even if you are right. You might get lucky and get a boss like me that will give you the benefit of the doubt, but that person is taking a big risk if something comes up later that they didn't know about it. Because the judge that let this go to trial, noted in her... that's right HER... decision that there was probable cause to believe harassment was taking place, and I tolerated it, because Reggie was not immediately terminated.

There was also other female related mitigating factors in the case because other women in the office had this stupid jealousy thing with this women... they are the ones clucking around like hens spreading rumors about this woman, including the one where she was separated... which was true, but none of that was anyone's fvcking business. But they also talked about that they thought maybe the marriage problems was because of stuff that was happening with clients... which was not true... and of course ME... try as I might to keep my personal life out of the business chicks will cluck around like hens because I date lots of women... and I guess you can't hide this from people you spend 40 hours a week with. But it's all good... I will pay this settlement from projected revenue over the next 10 years paid for with money I set aside for raises and bonuses. So ultimately the employees will pay the freight on this stupidity.

You have to be careful when you work with women or even deal with women, this is one of the reasons why I never try to even push anything with chicks, also one of the reason why I think this PUA BS of 'kino' is really stupid. I am NEVER alone in a room with a female client or employee... NEVER. Accept my deputy who I trust implicitly. To do otherwise is just too dangerous now-a-days.

 

[Trump]

In the end I wrote, if this happens one more time, I am personally going to stand up, go to her and give her a proper piece of my mind, I was surprised that my superior said the following "Yes I agree, you should do that, she needs it".

I thought to myself, is he scared of her? He's our superior / manager, why doesn't he say that to her.

Why would he care?
She is not bothering him. Why would he risk anything for you?

Regardless, what do you guys think is the best course to take here?

P.S Don't tell me to go the HR and explain the problem there,

Go to HR and explain the problem there.

it doesn't matter in which country you live in, the HR is always the same, their interest doesn't lye with the employee but the employer's best interest.

No that’s wrong. In Dubai, Iran, Venezuela, Germany, Britain, and parts of China, HRs interest lies with the employee.



I love guys who ask for advice, and then say “But dont tell me to do this.” OK, we will tell you want you want to hear:

She’s a bvtch and because she is bothering you, give her a piece of your mind. How dare she gossip about YOU! Doesn’t she know who you are? Tell her to shut up and shut her yap. Or open her yap because you have a gift for her. Stupid bvtch!

 

[backseatjuan]

She's trying to get you off your balance. Spread rumors about her, do talk about her, tell everyone how you glad she's gone from your team, be sorry for that department next to you. If she talks to you again, tell her straight up how glad you are that she's gone and that you don't have to deal with her again. That chick she's talking to, distance yourself from her, talk bad about her, try to get rid of her.

If you have her e-mail address we can crack it open.

 

[Logic85]

Thank you for your replies all, had a very good insight and opinions on some of the stuff you guys posted.

The superior of mine has a problem with her too, heck most people in Finances have a problem with her, but my superior lacks the balls to do such a thing and everyone knows this too.

She's of course trying to get me off the track and with personal comments, which has nothing to do with work, my reputation and performance speaks for itself, so she's going to run into the wall real soon.

The best option either for me is, if I am planning to leave the company (not because of her), that I get the incident documented in HR before I leave.

And since at the end of March I have a 1 on 1 meeting with my CFO, I can get him up to speed regarding this information as well, we have a good communication and understanding with each other, so I think he'll listen and take the necessary action, even if not, the important thing here is to get him to know about it too.

 

[RangerMIke]

Thank you for your replies all, had a very good insight and opinions on some of the stuff you guys posted.

The superior of mine has a problem with her too, heck most people in Finances have a problem with her, but my superior lacks the balls to do such a thing and everyone knows this too.

She's of course trying to get me off the track and with personal comments, which has nothing to do with work, my reputation and performance speaks for itself, so she's going to run into the wall real soon.

The best option either for me is, if I am planning to leave the company (not because of her), that I get the incident documented in HR before I leave.

And since at the end of March I have a 1 on 1 meeting with my CFO, I can get him up to speed regarding this information as well, we have a good communication and understanding with each other, so I think he'll listen and take the necessary action, even if not, the important thing here is to get him to know about it too.

Okay... some advice.

Document EVERYTHING and this is how you do it. Anytime this chick says anything or you hear anything anyone says that she is telling other people type an e-mail to yourself titled "Memorandum for Record" then message yourself what happened. This does a couple of things, it gets you to record in real time what happened so that you do not forget anything. The other thing it does is that it puts a time/date stamp on the event to demonstrate you are not creating a record after the fact. It only take a couple of minutes but it will save you a load of time and help your boss take action against her.

My other advice will be to completely avoid her as best you can... don't speak with her unless you have to and when you do have to talk to her, document it just like I told you. I guarantee she is not doing this, women typically do not completely document exactly what is happening because they are accustom to just being believed and frequently are not required to PROVE what happened. You will have a track record of interaction: she will have 'feelings'. And if you are fired anyway, then you can take you evidence and sue your boss because if you present to your boss PROOF of your innocence, and you are fired anyway, you will have a case against him/her.

Document... it does not take a lot of time, like I said 5 minutes a day, and it will save you a lot of grief going forward. Good luck and I hope this helps.

 

[Morpheus]

Welcome to the wonderful world of working with women. If you think that is bad... try owning a company. My main bread and butter business has 11 full time employee all but three are women, and temps as needed mostly for short term (one year or less) contracts. First they are not all like this, in fact some of my best employees have been women, but ALL the good ones have been older women 50+. For a couple of reasons, 1st we are close to the same age, and I like to run things old school. I think they appreciate a certain level of professionalism, dress, and performance indicative of my generation. I do not tolerate tardiness period. I also have zero tolerance for disrespect to clients. Depending on their duties... I let them set their own schedules, but if you say are coming in a 9 am, then you better do it... My deputy/office manager is a women who is 63 and she's fantastic, when she retires she will be hard to replace. I pay them all very well, with full medical benefits and a very generous 401K. Because my compensation is above the market, everyone is motivated to behave and do their jobs.

However.... every problem employee I have ever had have been a women in her late 20s to early 40s. EVERYONE.

This sounds like the crazy 30s that logicallefty and others have talked about.

Thanks for explaining at least one source of the enormous risks one faces at work these days. How a mere joke can get you fired, even in the best of circumstances. I've seen this sort of thing happen and have had some experience of it myself. One of the other possibilities of course is that your boss turns out to be a white knight.

As you explained, this also has a huge cost that others ultimately have to pay for. There was some discussion of how unemployable women were becoming when the metoo thing really got going. I knew a woman who had successfully sued a school in her past. I'm not sure what for. Of course, at that point she was thinking of attempting to sue the university that she was attending as a graduate student. I don't think that the latter
went anywhere, but you can gather the mindset when they are rewarded for these rent seeking activities.

A simple and perhaps obvious question. If this is the case, why do you employ so many women?

 

[RangerMIke]

A simple and perhaps obvious question. If this is the case, why do you employ so many women?

Good question deserving an answer. But forgive me if I am vague in my description of what I do with this company because I do not want to be doxed, and what I post here becomes part of some SJW sh!t show.

This is one of three companies I have a stake in, but it is the only one where I am the majority owner and have full control and where most of my earning comes from. Without any detail it is a professional services company. In a nut shell when a client has a problem with a project (again I'm not going to share what our particular expertise is) they come to us. I have a network of independent 1099 contractors that are experts in different fields, depending on the scope and nature of the project, I will bring people in that we need to get things started in the right direction and manage the contract. I am organized into 3 divisions, the largest is the one that is really in our area of expertise... I have 4 in this area, the second largest, I have 3, and all others, sort of a catch all, we have 2. In addition, I have a receptionist/administrative support person, and the last is my deputy.

Most of what goes on in my office is contracts management, that is managing the expectation of our paying clients, personal relations and ensuring our consultants deliver what we pay for. I do not specifically look of women, but in my experience women tend to do a better job of relationship management with clients. There are always exceptions, but generally speaking they are better at interpersonal conflict resolution and working out compromises and getting changes made that are required based on emerging, unforeseen costs or problems. which is a key in that role, again I don;t screen for this but the ones that do this well stay longer and tend to be women.

I touched on it before, but I have brought in younger men in this company and typically they get bored with the details, because much of contact management is painfully boring, then they move on to other things, and occasionally I'll get a young hot shot that thinks he can compete with me, takes some clients with them and tries to do this himself... the competitive nature of men is why this happens... I expect this and it's part of doing business. I do not require my staff to sign non-compete agreements... mostly because those things are not worth the paper they are written on because for this to be enforceable, you have to be VERY specific about EXACTLY what they can not do... where they can not do this... and for how long., so it is very difficult and legally costly, to get a document like this. Then if they violate this, very costly and time consuming to sue. However, if any of my consultants do business with a former employee of mine in competition with me, without first clearing it with me, I will NEVER use them again. If they value relationship with me over a start-up, they won't work for them. I pay my consultants very well, above market rate, and they stay loyal... so many of these hot-shots, once they jump ship, find out that the network of consultants I use will not work for them, or the ones that will are not people we use a lot for good reason. So these fellow will land a contract with a client, who is attracted to the low bid young hot-shot is willing to do the work for, quickly find out the quality of the work matches what they pay for.

A vast majority of my REAL work is done by professional consultants... who prefer to work independently and make more money doing it. Most of these people are men, I do not know the exact percentage, but my guess is about 85%.