Should I avoid this woman or go with it and see what happens

[sangheilios]

August-
I've posted about this woman I met at my gym several months back. In August I approached her, introduced myself and it went pretty well before letting her go back to working out. Couple days later I see her there and she comes over to talk to me and asks me out and gives me her number, except she flaked and ghosted on me for a while. We kept talking through August and she's allowing physical contact, touching her legs and all that.

September-

I end up asking her out on a date and I don't get a yes or no. The next day I see her there and we are talking and I point blank ask her if she was seeing someone because her behavior was confusing me, which she says she wasn't. I remained friendly with her, just say hi when I would see her, but within a week she started approaching me again. This kept up for a couple weeks before I see her there with a guy, when he is gone she says to me that she doesn't want me talking to her when he is there. I called her on it and she got mad and told me she didn't want to talk to me anymore.

More recently-

I continued to see her off and on through the fall and winter, albeit nowhere near as often as before, but would never talk to her....almost like we didn't even know each other at all. In December I find out that she was engaged, saw the guy a couple times with her at the gym. Anyway, a few weeks ago I find out that their engagement fell through and that they are no longer seeing each other. However, what started happening around this time is that I've been seeing her at the gym more frequently and her behavior is interesting. When she sees me she literally watches me and smiles like she wants me to approach her and even has started creating some physical proximity, walking by me, etc.

As of now I've been just ignoring her but I'm also kind of tempted to approach her again, mostly because she is very hot and also because I genuinely liked her, was pleasant to talk to, etc. Part of me is a bit fearful but I also feel that it is unlikely that someone would go to this extreme purely for validation/attention.

 

[stevieLA]

The length of time over which this has dragged out should be answer enough.

 

[sangheilios]

The length of time over which this has dragged out should be answer enough.

I haven't talked to her since September

 

[backseatjuan]

I point blank ask her if she was seeing someone because her behavior was confusing me, which she says she wasn't

Man wtf is confusing to you? She's an AW. Difference between AW and choosing signals is none, it's when you ask them out and they do this kind of sht it becomes apparent they are AW. She's an AW.

Gym is a whole different story with whole lots of different sht happening. Realize that all those women at the gym, 95% of them, used to be fat. They had no life other than what they acquired at the gym. They crave attention, nothing else. Same sht you see on OLD, if some btch has gym pictures or is wearing workout clothes, be sure she is boring little attention whre. Their responses to 'what you like doing in your free time' usually boil down to 'I love healthy life style and just living', because they are retarded fat girls deep down inside.

You got her number? Post an online ad, will sck ur dck and give out her number.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

When you introduced yourself, if it was going well and you were interested, you should have asked her out then and there. Women like you to take a risk and pull the trigger. Proof of this is that SHE had to come up and ask YOU out because you didn't do it.

After she flaked and ghosted for a while, that would have been the end of it for me. It's disrespectful and any guy who continues to talk to a woman who's done that to him is demonstrating low value and having no options so it lowers her value in her eyes and if she's a sh*tty person, she will take advantage of that by stringing you along for her own self-validation.

Further proof is that you asked her out again and didn't get a yes or no.

You shouldn't have asked her if she was seeing someone. Never ask a girl that. It's needy and stalkerish. You also shouldn't have told her that her behavior was confusing you. You are letting her know that she's getting under your skin and you two don't even have anything going on. When you start saying stuff like that to a girl you aren't even dating, it kills any chance you ever may have had. It makes her think you are going to be an uptight control freak if she ever did get with you.

Lastly, it is NOT unlikely that someone would do this purely for validation/attention. You use the word "extreme" but nothing about what she has done is extreme and in my experience, it is all 100% typical stuff nearly all girls do every day all day for validation. She probably thinks you are hot but your lack of game is turning her off. I don't mean that as an insult - we are all constantly learning, myself included. An example: I ran into an ex at a party who I hadn't seen or contacted in a year. She saw me right as she arrived. I pretended I didn't see her and she immediately made her way over to me and hugged me and started talking to me. Everywhere I went in the party, within a few minutes, she was standing right next to me and striking up conversation. LOTS of eye contact that she would not break. Lots of smiling. I asked her if she and her girlfriend she was there with would like to grab some food and drinks after the party (it was a lunch-hour party) and she agreed. We went out to dinner and she kept giving me the "f*ck me" look and smile from across the table and wouldn't break eye contact. I felt her leg under the table rest on mine. You could cut the s*xual tension with a knife. Five days later I texted her an inside joke, she responded very shortly. I followed up that text with an invitation and she ghosted. Simple as that. So yes, girls will go to GREAT lengths for validation. The ONLY way to protect yourself from this is to pull the f*cking trigger, ask them out, and ANYTHING other than a yes means you hard-next them and don't waste another second of your time on them.

 

[Bullbearpig]

Move on as if she doesn't even exist. Don't look at her, don't talk to her. If she talks to you keep it cordial but as brief as possible. Forget about her.

 

[Fruitbat]

When I was 20 I asked a woman if she was in an open relationship. I meant to say “equal relationship”.

She blushed and said “of course”

I went home and realised I’d said something completely alpha without knowing what alpha meant or meaning to be alpha.

I had sex with her about 2 weeks later.

Just goes to show, women really love you going for the kill quickly. She was all over me as soon as I said that.

 

[Glassguy]

Just text her.

"Hey"

If she responds, see how she responds and go from there.

Minimal investment.

 

[MillionBillionaire]

OP do you also enjoy bashing your head against a wall?

Why are you confused? I'll make it easy ..

NO!

 

[sangheilios]

When you introduced yourself, if it was going well and you were interested, you should have asked her out then and there. Women like you to take a risk and pull the trigger. Proof of this is that SHE had to come up and ask YOU out because you didn't do it.

After she flaked and ghosted for a while, that would have been the end of it for me. It's disrespectful and any guy who continues to talk to a woman who's done that to him is demonstrating low value and having no options so it lowers her value in her eyes and if she's a sh*tty person, she will take advantage of that by stringing you along for her own self-validation.

Further proof is that you asked her out again and didn't get a yes or no.

You shouldn't have asked her if she was seeing someone. Never ask a girl that. It's needy and stalkerish. You also shouldn't have told her that her behavior was confusing you. You are letting her know that she's getting under your skin and you two don't even have anything going on. When you start saying stuff like that to a girl you aren't even dating, it kills any chance you ever may have had. It makes her think you are going to be an uptight control freak if she ever did get with you.

Lastly, it is NOT unlikely that someone would do this purely for validation/attention. You use the word "extreme" but nothing about what she has done is extreme and in my experience, it is all 100% typical stuff nearly all girls do every day all day for validation. She probably thinks you are hot but your lack of game is turning her off. I don't mean that as an insult - we are all constantly learning, myself included. An example: I ran into an ex at a party who I hadn't seen or contacted in a year. She saw me right as she arrived. I pretended I didn't see her and she immediately made her way over to me and hugged me and started talking to me. Everywhere I went in the party, within a few minutes, she was standing right next to me and striking up conversation. LOTS of eye contact that she would not break. Lots of smiling. I asked her if she and her girlfriend she was there with would like to grab some food and drinks after the party (it was a lunch-hour party) and she agreed. We went out to dinner and she kept giving me the "f*ck me" look and smile from across the table and wouldn't break eye contact. I felt her leg under the table rest on mine. You could cut the s*xual tension with a knife. Five days later I texted her an inside joke, she responded very shortly. I followed up that text with an invitation and she ghosted. Simple as that. So yes, girls will go to GREAT lengths for validation. The ONLY way to protect yourself from this is to pull the f*cking trigger, ask them out, and ANYTHING other than a yes means you hard-next them and don't waste another second of your time on them.

The actual interactions I had with her were months back, so of course I realize what I should and should not have done. Her behavior was confusing to me because women don't ask guys out, allow touching, etc. for just attention unless something else is at play. I do realize I shouldn't have said and done some of those things but I'm sure you get where I'm coming from.

Anyway, when it comes to women at the gym I tend to handle it a bit differently because they are people I see on a regular or semi regular basis. In my opinion, I feel it is better to just approach, see how the conversation goes and then let them get back to working out because I know I will see them again. Then when I do run into them again at the gym I can see how they act and go from there. I feel this is a good way to minimize awkward situations in an environment that I frequent and enjoy on an almost daily basis.

 

[lamath]

The actual interactions I had with her were months back, so of course I realize what I should and should not have done. Her behavior was confusing to me because women don't ask guys out, allow touching, etc. for just attention unless something else is at play. I do realize I shouldn't have said and done some of those things but I'm sure you get where I'm coming from.

Anyway, when it comes to women at the gym I tend to handle it a bit differently because they are people I see on a regular or semi regular basis. In my opinion, I feel it is better to just approach, see how the conversation goes and then let them get back to working out because I know I will see them again. Then when I do run into them again at the gym I can see how they act and go from there. I feel this is a good way to minimize awkward situations in an environment that I frequent and enjoy on an almost daily basis.

Nothing wrong with a quick talk with her at the gym from time to time.
There is a very good chance if she is interested that she will tell you that she is now single. Like they said ealier dont ask her if she is single.
Also dont waste your time trying to befriend her.

My approach if i see some ioi from her, would be very direct and unapologetic - Now that you are single we can finally hook up
Or something similar, no beating around the bush.

 

[sangheilios]

Nothing wrong with a quick talk with her at the gym from time to time.
There is a very good chance if she is interested that she will tell you that she is now single. Like they said ealier dont ask her if she is single.
Also dont waste your time trying to befriend her.

My approach if i see some ioi from her, would be very direct and unapologetic - Now that you are single we can finally hook up
Or something similar, no beating around the bush.

At this point I'd wait to see if she actually approaches me instead of going out of my way to interact with her. I mean, she did lead me on for quite a while so for me to initiate would most likely just put myself down the same road again. Knowing what I know now, it would be entirely my own fault if it just turns into her needing/wanting attention and validation.

I've met women that liked attention before but never anything like this, which is why I think I got sucked into it in the first place.

 

[RangerMIke]

Couple days later I see her there and she comes over to talk to me and asks me out and gives me her number, except she flaked and ghosted on me for a while.

Chicks will give you their numbers... will agree to dates... and if they flake and won't call you back. They are hoping you get the message and leave them alone.

We kept talking through August and she's allowing physical contact, touching her legs and all that.

Okay... others will disagree with me, but never put your hands on a woman that has already made it clear she is not interested and who has not touched you first. Not only will this creep her out, you could end up in real trouble.

I end up asking her out on a date and I don't get a yes or no.

Anything other than an unequivocal yes... or legitimate counter-offer is no. If she didn't agree or disagree to the meet up she said no.

The next day I see her there and we are talking and I point blank ask her if she was seeing someone because her behavior was confusing me, which she says she wasn't.

I don't know what to say here... she said she wasn't seeing someone but it's not a question you should ask directly, But let me translate what she really said to you. "No I'm not seeing anyone, and I really do not understand why you are not getting the message that I am not interested... So I will tell you flat out, no... I'm not seeing anyone... including you. The reason I will not agree to a date is because I am not interested, NOT because I'm seriously dating someone."

I remained friendly with her, just say hi when I would see her, but within a week she started approaching me again. This kept up for a couple weeks before I see her there with a guy, when he is gone she says to me that she doesn't want me talking to her when he is there. I called her on it and she got mad and told me she didn't want to talk to me anymore.

She does not want you to chase off dudes she is interested in. At this point you have gone from a guy she does not really care about to someone that is starting to scare her.

I continued to see her off and on through the fall and winter, albeit nowhere near as often as before, but would never talk to her....almost like we didn't even know each other at all.

Good... now you are starting to behave properly.

In December I find out that she was engaged, saw the guy a couple times with her at the gym. Anyway, a few weeks ago I find out that their engagement fell through and that they are no longer seeing each other. However, what started happening around this time is that I've been seeing her at the gym more frequently and her behavior is interesting. When she sees me she literally watches me and smiles like she wants me to approach her and even has started creating some physical proximity, walking by me, etc.

She's available, and you are her back-up... depending on what you want (which is obvious by your behavior that you want something to happen in a serious way). Go ahead and ask her out and see what happens. Chicks flip all the time back and forth from dude to dude, his turn on the ride is over... and now the ride is empty, see if she will take your ticket.

As of now I've been just ignoring her but I'm also kind of tempted to approach her again, mostly because she is very hot and also because I genuinely liked her, was pleasant to talk to, etc. Part of me is a bit fearful but I also feel that it is unlikely that someone would go to this extreme purely for validation/attention.

If you are fearful you are not acting like a man... if you want something to happen then go for it. The worst that can happen is that nothing happens... and even this is good because then you know you can move on.

You have been obsessed with this chick for too long... be advised that even if you somehow can close the deal you are already too emotionally committed and your behavior is only going to spook her off. My advice to you would be to ask her out and see what happens. If you do not get anything other than an enthusiastic 'yes' assume it's no and move the fvck on and try to forget about her otherwise you are going to make yourself sick.

 

[sangheilios]

Chicks will give you their numbers... will agree to dates... and if they flake and won't call you back. They are hoping you get the message and leave them alone.

Okay... others will disagree with me, but never put your hands on a woman that has already made it clear she is not interested and who has not touched you first. Not only will this creep her out, you could end up in real trouble.

Anything other than an unequivocal yes... or legitimate counter-offer is no. If she didn't agree or disagree to the meet up she said no.


I don't know what to say here... she said she wasn't seeing someone but it's not a question you should ask directly, But let me translate what she really said to you. "No I'm not seeing anyone, and I really do not understand why you are not getting the message that I am not interested... So I will tell you flat out, no... I'm not seeing anyone... including you. The reason I will not agree to a date is because I am not interested, NOT because I'm seriously dating someone."

She does not want you to chase off dudes she is interested in. At this point you have gone from a guy she does not really care about to someone that is starting to scare her.

Good... now you are starting to behave properly.

She's available, and you are her back-up... depending on what you want (which is obvious by your behavior that you want something to happen in a serious way). Go ahead and ask her out and see what happens. Chicks flip all the time back and forth from dude to dude, his turn on the ride is over... and now the ride is empty, see if she will take your ticket.

If you are fearful you are not acting like a man... if you want something to happen then go for it. The worst that can happen is that nothing happens... and even this is good because then you know you can move on.

You have been obsessed with this chick for too long... be advised that even if you somehow can close the deal you are already too emotionally committed and your behavior is only going to spook her off. My advice to you would be to ask her out and see what happens. If you do not get anything other than an enthusiastic 'yes' assume it's no and move the fvck on and try to forget about her otherwise you are going to make yourself sick.

I think you missed the part where this woman was actively going out of her way to engage with me, ask me out, etc. Women don't go up to a guy and ask him out on a date and give him their number just to ghost out of the blue for no reason.....think about that for a minute.

I have never in my life heard of a woman who behaves like this with a particular man over a prolonged period of time, and I highly doubt anyone on here has as well. It makes no sense to go ask a guy out just to disappear, but then later reappear and start leading him, approaching him again, etc. There is no way someone would go through all of this purely for attention, it's just too drawn out and over the top.

Do you see any of this behavior from her as normal or just an EXTREME case of attention whoring? I want you to be honest when you answer that because while I do realize she is an AW I also feel that this woman took it to an extreme degree. Also, how would you feel if someone went out of their way to mess with you for no reason like that?

You'd be hesitant to interact with her as well if you dealt with that lol. This is why I get no enjoyment when meeting women, they all behave like this to some degree and to say the least it is confusing as hell. I've had women go out of their way to kiss me at the end of the first date just to ghost out of nowhere.

 

[Chi Town]

Women don't go up to a guy and ask him out on a date and give him their number just to ghost out of the blue for no reason.....think about that for a minute.

I have never in my life heard of a woman who behaves like this with a particular man over a prolonged period of time

You are sadly mistaken my friend

 

[sangheilios]

You aren't that experienced then.

Anyway, what you should do is ask her out and then ask out 10 other women by the end of the March so you won't waste time.

I presented this story to a lot of people and none of them had heard of anything quite like this. My closest friends gave me an honest input in that they believed she was just mentally unstable/crazy and that she probably did this to loads of other men and got some sort of satisfaction from it, whether that be from validation/attention or actually enjoy messing with them. I personally excused a lot of her behavior early on because I felt that there was no way that someone would go through all of that for no reason, especially when she would run into me again in person.

 

[RangerMIke]

I think you missed the part where this woman was actively going out of her way to engage with me, ask me out, etc. Women don't go up to a guy and ask him out on a date and give him their number just to ghost out of the blue for no reason.....think about that for a minute.

Of course they do... all the time. This happens to me frequently. Sh!t it just happened to me today! This one chick I met a few weeks ago asked me out for National Margarita Day at a local Mexican hangout for tonight, then sent me a text message this morning that she can't make it. No problem, I'm going anyway and perhaps I'll meet another one. Two weeks ago, I had a chick that was dying to go out with me, so I asked her out... she actually did show up, but she wasn't really into it, and started talking about some dude she's thinking of moving back to Nashville for... this was at a local bar, so you know what I did, I asked another chick that was at the bar for her number and she gave it to me. I have dozens of stories just like this.

The reason this sh!t happens with chicks is that they are all about the 'moment'. In that one instance where she was asking you out and dying to see you she really was! But in the next moment she might have gotten a text from an old boyfriend and all of the sudden... the interest drops like a ton of bricks. I can't tell you how many chicks I have slept with that just broke up with boyfriends only to discover a week later she back with BF. I just ran into a woman today I was seeing just a couple of months ago, and she's pregnant. LOL!!! She's not sure who the father is. One that I was dating about 6 months ago, just quit a great job and a nice career, to run off to Australia for a 3 month sabbatical... She has no fvcking idea what she is going to do when she gets back... she's playing by ear and letting her emotions drag her to the other side of the planet.

Chicks are flaky as fvck.... the more you date... the more you realize that MOST of them are like this. Couple this with a society to cheers them on when they behave irrationally at it's any wonder there are any sane men in the world. Truth is the only men that are not losing their minds over this are ones that just accept the way things are don't put up with BS... move on when it's time to get off the ride.

 

[sangheilios]

She might very well be mentally unstable but that alone is not too uncommon.

I'd still ask her out but keep your eye open.

When I say that I don't mean like a raving lunatic who belongs in the nut house, but instead just a "crazy chick" that some men meet. She is normal, can function in society but has issues that create problems with interpersonal relationships, in this case with men.

I have a friend who is engaged to his long distance gf, she is away for a graduate degree, and before he proposed he had a fwb that lived near him. Anyway, that particular woman, his FWB, does the most desperate and craziest things to tempt him, spend time with him, etc. However, she does all of this being fully aware of the fact that he is engaged.

For instance, she got a hold of his I.D and held onto it so that he would have to go over there to get it, what actually happened whilst he was over there I'm not entirely sure of lol. I've actually met this woman, she is in her early 20s but she reminds me of like a 14 year old, just in overall maturity.

I wasn't raised around people like this so their behavior is very foreign to me and not something I know how to deal with appropriately.

 

[stevieLA]

I haven't talked to her since September

What. The. F_ck. She has ZERO interest in you. Stop obsessing over her and move on. There is another woman interested out there. Go find her. You are seriously in a deluded obsessive loop.

I know you don't believe that. You believe she wants you very badly but is just shy. All you have to do is unlock her vagina with a magic phrase or eyebrow raise. OK, so here's the thing. GO TALK TO HER. Make it happen IRL.

That's right, posting here won't get you laid. You have to take action. You've been obsessing over this girl for a year. Do SOMETHING. Talk to her, and invite her out to a date. She will either show up or she won't. She won't. But at least you will have tried.

 

[sangheilios]

Same, sheltered. Just how they live. They are all over the business world too, we have prisons for a reason.

As I've become older I have picked up on a trend with people who would be considered or came from backgrounds that are uneducated, poorer and with less stable family environments/upbringings. That trend is that these types of people, both men and women, seem to constantly have their life be in a perpetual state of drama. A lot of this seems to stem from a lack of accountability and the inability to recognize potential consequences of their actions and behaviors. They also seem to be very focused on instant gratification and becoming bored very easily with anything that is stable, as it is perceived as boring. This type of mindset is pretty common and I would say normal for a teenager in high school but much beyond that I think that becomes a problem, as this is not the behavior or outlook of a rational and mature adult.