How I got Gaslighted.

[Skyline]

Gaslighting.

In my years of being here on SS, I've never actually seen this topic talked about. Which is probably why I got blind sided by it and it took up 3 years of my life. This was during a time that I was at my confident peak. So let's talk about the term Gaslighting.

Gaslighting is a manipulative tactic commonly used by people that have heavy ties with Narcissist Personality Disorder and Borderline Personality disorder. That is not to say that they actually have any of those two disorders. These people are not always physically violent, do not always show any signs of dysfunction, and are not always explicitly manipulative. They also may never get truly angry and will likely never apologize.


Women/people who passively Gaslight are not explicit about it compared to NPD and BPD counterparts. E.g. "You make me want to kill/hurt myself." or "Your ex/family member/friend left you because of what you did." or after a fight/argument "I love you so much."+ extreme affection. Those are blatant signs of Gaslighting.


So let's start with the symptoms.

1. Lying. Not the type of lying where you may or may not know, it's just a blatant lie that they will tell. One of my examples was that she couldn't show up on a date because she had to play a sport due to it raining the day prior(fact)- this was an outdoor sport she was talking about. Meaning the ground would have still been wet resulting in cancellation, I still remember looking at her as if I was stupid. Lies that are just blatantly lies.

2. They deny things that you know is going on. Not exactly blatant lying but it is a form of lying. An example of this is that she was talking to one of my friends behind my back. She also had a boyfriend that she never told me about when we first started talking. She denied these things when it was brought up and became distant when I persisted.

3. Downplaying. This relates to point 2. When called out, they downplay it and make it seem like what they were doing was not a big deal or it wasn't at all that it was. They also make it seem like you're making a big deal out of something so little/nothing. In reality, it's exactly what you think it is.

4. Positive Reinforcement. This is easily the part that got me sucked in. Despite knowing that she was not interested, I continued because of this. I admit, I was weak and fell for it. What they do is drop random hints of positive reinforcement, like "I've thought about us being together" or "I feel like we connect well" or "You're different." Just some form of reinforcement amidst the toxicity. And the thing is... I know better. I was completely aware of the situation but still fell for it.

5. They talk the talk. Actions speak louder than words. Actions speak louder than words. Actions speak louder than words. Actions speak louder than words. Actions speak louder than words. Never ever forget this. This saying is what saved me from getting into a toxic relationship with this girl. At this point in time, she had a pretty decent control over me but it was never 100%. I was always fighting it and calling her out and believing in myself. They will say anything but will never back it up with actions- this includes making you feel guilty in a passive way.

6. They have you question yourself and her. You begin to doubt everything, you honestly think that you are crazy. At this point in time, I was trapped. I began to question myself and I would go to my abuser, her, for validation. This is where the vicious cycle begins. Points 1-5 get repeated over, and over, and over, again... The more control she had over me the less and less she would talk to me which would cause me to try to talk to her more. The thing is, it never seemed blatantly malicious but the signs are there. If I didn't have such a firm belief in "Actions speak louder than words," I would have been in a relationship with this girl and became her victim. I'd still say that I was partially a victim but during this time, I was actually meeting/talking/sleeping with other girls. I was spinning plates.


She did not like this at all. She would frequently ask to see a picture of the girl in question and would become passive aggressive once I showed her. She would begin to question whether or not we would work out in an attempt to get me to stop talking to them. At this point in time, I started to realize what was going on and I began to adapt. I knew telling her the truth would result in point 5 and 6 happening so I lied or just didn't tell her about them. I always thought it was weird how she wanted to see a picture of the girl in question, it's because she wanted proof that she no longer had control over me.


7. They get people against you. They do this to reinforce the fact that you think you are crazy/need mental help. They will specifically pick out weak targets to align with her without question. I don't need mental help and I am not crazy. So in this situation, I lied to her and said that I got help. Nothing changed. Lucky for me, she has very few friends. The only friend she had was that friend she was talking to behind my back. But he never made a move on her and he ultimately blocked/cut her off from his life. Even he was telling me that I was crazy.

Those are the major symptoms that I saw with this girl. Nearly all of this are backed with research online as well, it's actually insane how much information that's out there on this topic. If it were not for Sosuave, I would have fallen for all of it. I started reading the DJ Bible when I was 16, I'm 22 now. I read that thing religiously and the things that could not get passed that filter are what saved me.

Part 2 in comments....

 

[Skyline]

Part 2....


Now, she also had some traits that were blatant red flags that I chose to ignore. These traits are universal.

1. Lack of Empathy. I was actually suicidal back then(that's how bad it got), she did not care and proceeding to talk to my friend behind my back. Not once did she ever give me any sort of reaffirmation. Even when I blamed her for it, she turned it around and blamed it on me.

2. Using people. This is a major error on her part, she began disclosing information when she realized that she had a lot of control over me. This was at the point in time where I knew what was going on. She thought that it would make me side with her so I lied and sided with her. She stated that she used her ex for drugs(weed and shrooms). She then stated that she used this other ex just for sex. Then it was my close friend, she used him to go against me(she never told me this but I figured it out myself). Then she states that she got with this guy because he kept complimenting her, so using him just for validation.

At one point, she wanted to use me to go to her first rave. She had no job, no car, no gas money, no alcohol, and she lied about still being with her boyfriend. I called her out on this and one of the reasons why is because my car gets 16 MPG, on premium, and the place she wanted to go was basically a small road trip. I would have also had to pay for her ticket and the alcohol. Looking back, my mindset was interesting. I was willing to give up my mental health but not my money... I spent maybe $20 on her over the years. Thanks SoSuave.

3. Not a lot of friends. She has maybe 1 friend. I chose to ignore this as well. Big mistake. People with no friends have no friends for a very good, and toxic, reason.

4. Lying. I am a human lie detector. I am ridiculously good at catching liars but she was awful at lying. There were times that it was actually funny to me because of how bad the lie was.

5. Flaking. This a standard sign of disinterest. I chose to ignore it, rookie mistake.

6. She stated her hate for men at one point. The context of this was that her dad was stealing money from her. I'm not sure if this was true but she still explicitly stated that she hated men. She went on to say that they were "worthless and not good for anything." Looking back, how in the fvck did I let this slip by. I get annoyed of women but I have never, ever, stated that I hated women or even thought about it. Anyone who expresses this is not someone you should associate with.

7. Self centered. This ties to Lack of Empathy. I found her to be very selfish and self centered. She seemed to care only about herself especially with her not bating an eye at me being suicidal or her talking to one of my good friends behind my back. Another big mistake...

8. Too aloof. They were times where I would call her out on every single thing she had done(to me or just in general) and use it against her and her aspiration to be a Police Officer. And I would call her a piece of sh*t, etc.. She simply would not care. She wouldn't retaliate or anything, it's like she hated men to the point where whatever they said to her went out one ear and out the other. Any normal, and even insane, person would have blocked me in an instant or at least cussed me out in retaliation. I'm still uneasy about her wanting to become a Cop.

The thing is, if I had just followed the standard/universal signs of interest... This would have never happened. But I learned a lot from this situation. I know it's 3 years that went down the toilet but I was spinning plates and I did learn a lot about these types of people and myself. If I wasn't fighting her almost every step of the way, because of SoSuave, I would have lost and gotten stuck in something toxic. She could not fully control me, in fact I got a girlfriend(that I never told her about)during the time that she was manipulating me. The only time that I believe that she had near full control of me was when I was suicidal- but that did not last long.

I still remember the days where I began to question the DJ Bible but I never fully turned against it. In the end, the DJ Bible is not wrong and it's what saved me.

These types of women/people are vicious and hide in passive forms. Listen to your gut... Follow the standard interest rules... And stand up for yourself. Oh and SPIN PLATES. I don't regret this experience because it did ultimately make me a better person and heavily reinforced SoSuave and the DJ Bible. You really can't let your guard down and let things slip by. Always reinforce, and stand by, your standards.

People who Gaslight ultimately hate your gender. They don’t see you as a person but an object to control and abuse.

Also, definitely abandon ship when she explicitly states that she hates men regardless of the context.

 

[Skyline]

Its because anything negative you say about her she already believes, its just like "duh, what took you so long to figure it out loser." I think this is what makes the breakups with them so bitter for me. Yes a normal woman will get solipsistic and twist things in her favor at a breakup but deep down it is possible to tell her whats up and she will take it to heart deep down. With these crazies they are literally immune to anything you do because of the trauma in childhood.

Yeah, she truly was a brick wall. I called her a sex doll at one point and it barely phased her.

1. I think projection is a form of gaslighting because normally what they project is some bad trait that of course actually applies to them, for example accusing you of being a cheater when they are the cheater.

I think the trait she was projecting onto me was severe neglect. She just wanted to control men.

2. They have no ability to forgive, and they use that to great effect in their gaslighting because they keep bringing up the past. God forbid you actually did something wrong. Even though I told gaslighters to fvck off and get over it or leave when they've done things like this, its always going to hurt when someone you care about can't forgive you (even though its just their insanity and opportunism at play). BTW I'm pretty sure when they realize this won't work the countdown on them leaving begins.

This one was a bit different. Every time I would call her out on every single one of her bullsh*ts, we would not talk for months. Then I would talk to her again and she was willing to completely forgive me for all of it. It was definitely suspicious. The countdown of her leaving happened so many times as well. Especially when she would start talking to another man who she deemed was an "easier target."

3. Its a well known fact that people from lower socioeconomic backgrounds and/or abusive backgrounds do not really have basic problem solving ability and so a lot of the gaslighting etc is a learned technique for zero problem solving ability.

I always thought her reasoning skills were trash. Which is why I'm a little on edge on her becoming a Cop. She once told me that she was afraid to actually shoot someone and I firmly believe it's because she knows that it may not be a valid instance of her using lethal violence.

4. The red pill can actually damper your ability to detect these seriously abnormal traits because they are an exaggerated version of the typical human traits that the red pill identifies so well. I saw my ex show zero empathy for men and downplayed it as well.

The thing is, it's so abnormal that it appears genuine. That's one of the things that threw my off completely. She was willing to forgive me for literally anything. I even got drunk with her twin sister, unknown to her, and she forgave me for that.

5. The worst thing about gaslighting is it can get into your subconscious if prolonged. Your conscious mind can reject it outright, but then you find yourself trapped in negative thinking patterns.

That's exactly what happened to me. I'm still recovering but that was definitely an experience.

 

[Skyline]

You weren't her primary guy yeah

She's in the Navy right now and I remember her saying that Naval school was the hardest thing she's ever done because it was extremely lonely. You don't get your phone or access to the opposite gender when you're there and it's 2 months long. That lust for control is real.

It's weird because whenever she felt like she had control over me, she would talk to me maybe once or twice a day. But when she found another target, that response time would expand to days and even weeks. That's how sick her lust for control is.

In a sense, I'm way too strong for her. I've always known that I don't attract crazy and I think this is a perfect instance where I had not realized that it wasn't going to work out because she's fvcking crazy.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Gaslighting.

In my years of being here on SS, I've never actually seen this topic talked about. Which is probably why I got blind sided by it and it took up 3 years of my life. This was during a time that I was at my confident peak. So let's talk about the term Gaslighting.

Gaslighting is a manipulative tactic commonly used by people that have heavy ties with Narcissist Personality Disorder and Borderline Personality disorder. That is not to say that they actually have any of those two disorders. These people are not always physically violent, do not always show any signs of dysfunction, and are not always explicitly manipulative. They also may never get truly angry and will likely never apologize.


Women/people who passively Gaslight are not explicit about it compared to NPD and BPD counterparts. E.g. "You make me want to kill/hurt myself." or "Your ex/family member/friend left you because of what you did." or after a fight/argument "I love you so much."+ extreme affection. Those are blatant signs of Gaslighting.


So let's start with the symptoms.

1. Lying. Not the type of lying where you may or may not know, it's just a blatant lie that they will tell. One of my examples was that she couldn't show up on a date because she had to play a sport due to it raining the day prior(fact)- this was an outdoor sport she was talking about. Meaning the ground would have still been wet resulting in cancellation, I still remember looking at her as if I was stupid. Lies that are just blatantly lies.

2. They deny things that you know is going on. Not exactly blatant lying but it is a form of lying. An example of this is that she was talking to one of my friends behind my back. She also had a boyfriend that she never told me about when we first started talking. She denied these things when it was brought up and became distant when I persisted.

3. Downplaying. This relates to point 2. When called out, they downplay it and make it seem like what they were doing was not a big deal or it wasn't at all that it was. They also make it seem like you're making a big deal out of something so little/nothing. In reality, it's exactly what you think it is.

4. Positive Reinforcement. This is easily the part that got me sucked in. Despite knowing that she was not interested, I continued because of this. I admit, I was weak and fell for it. What they do is drop random hints of positive reinforcement, like "I've thought about us being together" or "I feel like we connect well" or "You're different." Just some form of reinforcement amidst the toxicity. And the thing is... I know better. I was completely aware of the situation but still fell for it.

5. They talk the talk. Actions speak louder than words. Actions speak louder than words. Actions speak louder than words. Actions speak louder than words. Actions speak louder than words. Never ever forget this. This saying is what saved me from getting into a toxic relationship with this girl. At this point in time, she had a pretty decent control over me but it was never 100%. I was always fighting it and calling her out and believing in myself. They will say anything but will never back it up with actions- this includes making you feel guilty in a passive way.

6. They have you question yourself and her. You begin to doubt everything, you honestly think that you are crazy. At this point in time, I was trapped. I began to question myself and I would go to my abuser, her, for validation. This is where the vicious cycle begins. Points 1-5 get repeated over, and over, and over, again... The more control she had over me the less and less she would talk to me which would cause me to try to talk to her more. The thing is, it never seemed blatantly malicious but the signs are there. If I didn't have such a firm belief in "Actions speak louder than words," I would have been in a relationship with this girl and became her victim. I'd still say that I was partially a victim but during this time, I was actually meeting/talking/sleeping with other girls. I was spinning plates.


She did not like this at all. She would frequently ask to see a picture of the girl in question and would become passive aggressive once I showed her. She would begin to question whether or not we would work out in an attempt to get me to stop talking to them. At this point in time, I started to realize what was going on and I began to adapt. I knew telling her the truth would result in point 5 and 6 happening so I lied or just didn't tell her about them. I always thought it was weird how she wanted to see a picture of the girl in question, it's because she wanted proof that she no longer had control over me.


7. They get people against you. They do this to reinforce the fact that you think you are crazy/need mental help. They will specifically pick out weak targets to align with her without question. I don't need mental help and I am not crazy. So in this situation, I lied to her and said that I got help. Nothing changed. Lucky for me, she has very few friends. The only friend she had was that friend she was talking to behind my back. But he never made a move on her and he ultimately blocked/cut her off from his life. Even he was telling me that I was crazy.

Those are the major symptoms that I saw with this girl. Nearly all of this are backed with research online as well, it's actually insane how much information that's out there on this topic. If it were not for Sosuave, I would have fallen for all of it. I started reading the DJ Bible when I was 16, I'm 22 now. I read that thing religiously and the things that could not get passed that filter are what saved me.

Part 2 in comments....

You are a master of you understand this in detail at 22. I like how you pointed out that the more control she had the less she would communicate with you which would cause you to try eben harder to communicate with her. Also proofs of dates and plates is proof she doesnt control you.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

Takes two to tango.

Suckers are born every minute.

You can't con an honest man.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

Three excellent examples of gaslighting, thank you.

Gaslighters and con artists take advantage of people who are easy to take advantage of.

As much as their victims would like to believe, they don't have super powers that they can use on EVERYBODY.

Having strong boundaries, strong sense of self, and the ability to DISQUALIFY will significantly reduce the likelihood of getting taken advantage of.

Keep in mind I'm talking about your run of the mill "gaslighters" not people with Sneaky Pete levels of con artistry.

I"ll reiterate one of my previous statements, which you think is an example of gaslighting.

A sucker is born every minute. And they ARE suckers because they are WILLING to believe something that is too good to be true.

For every dude a lady has gaslighted, there're probably plenty of dudes who have DQ'd them early and quickly.

I understand that many people have f'd up childhoods, and makes them easy targets.

But wishing people weren't evil isn't a viable strategy.

That's like wandering through the jungle and wishing a tiger won't eat you.

Know they exist and know how to defend yourself.

You can do this the most easily by having strong boundaries, a strong sense of self and DISQUALIFYING those who don't smell right.

Most dudes here are so thirsty they never disqualify ANYBODY.

This makes them easy marks, unfortunately.

 

[PeasantPlayer]

This happened to me with my first girlfriend.
Never look back since, good post by OP

 

[Billtx49]

Yes, great post @Skyline. Gaslighting is where many red flags are likely to reside for any man concerned about disordered women or in search of a quality one…

 

[Skyline]

Gaslighters and con artists take advantage of people who are easy to take advantage of.

As much as their victims would like to believe, they don't have super powers that they can use on EVERYBODY.

Having strong boundaries, strong sense of self, and the ability to DISQUALIFY will significantly reduce the likelihood of getting taken advantage of.

Keep in mind I'm talking about your run of the mill "gaslighters" not people with Sneaky Pete levels of con artistry.

I"ll reiterate one of my previous statements, which you think is an example of gaslighting.

A sucker is born every minute. And they ARE suckers because they are WILLING to believe something that is too good to be true.

For every dude a lady has gaslighted, there're probably plenty of dudes who have DQ'd them early and quickly.

I understand that many people have f'd up childhoods, and makes them easy targets.

But wishing people weren't evil isn't a viable strategy.

That's like wandering through the jungle and wishing a tiger won't eat you.

Know they exist and know how to defend yourself.

You can do this the most easily by having strong boundaries, a strong sense of self and DISQUALIFYING those who don't smell right.

Most dudes here are so thirsty they never disqualify ANYBODY.

This makes them easy marks, unfortunately.

The issue is that I knew she was toxic and just not for me. I knew she wasn’t interested. That’s why there were month long+ gaps and why I was spinning plates. Once she drew me in, it’s ridiculously hard to move on.

I can’t really explain it but the second you start investing the more you lose in the long run and you know you’re losing.

Had I just stuck to the standard indicators of interest, I wouldn’t have needed a strong self or even boundaries.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

I can’t really explain it but the second you start investing the more you lose in the long run and you know you’re losing.

It's just like eating. As soon as you start, you can't stop.

Ancient instincts are powerful. Food and sex are the most important.

Our ancient instincts even get a WHIFF of potential sex, it hangs on for dear life.

Like food, our instincts think it is few and far between.

Just like food companies purposely engineer food we can't resist, some women HAPPEN to have a collection of communication skills that make THEM hard to resist to SOME people.

Best bet is to have ROCK SOLID criteria and bounce at the first sign of trouble.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

It's just like eating. As soon as you start, you can't stop.

Ancient instincts are powerful. Food and sex are the most important.

Our ancient instincts even get a WHIFF of potential sex, it hangs on for dear life.

Like food, our instincts think it is few and far between.

Just like food companies purposely engineer food we can't resist, some women HAPPEN to have a collection of communication skills that make THEM hard to resist to SOME people.

Best bet is to have ROCK SOLID criteria and bounce at the first sign of trouble.

What about men possessing those communication qualities that makes them hard to resist?

 

[fastlife]

The good news is that once you go through it one good time, your frame is 100% rock solid. Super painful--but you learn to never prioritize someone else's experience of reality over your own ever again.

 

[Ranger]

The proper handling of gaslighting and other manipulations is to continue doing what you’re doing as though nothing happened.

By even addressing a woman’s manipulations is to play into the imperative. There’s nothing to talk about.
All of this stuff can be avoided by not being in that reality. She’s not in charge of anything.
Never ever argue with a woman. If you even suspect, turn your switch off. She’s just another set of holes once you turn that switch off. Just don’t ever talk to her again. She text you. Mr. Block list works, right?

Don’t get upset by this stuff. It’s an acquired skill. Who cares if she lies. Crap, if a man is upset by a lie, he best not leave the house. Women lie by omission every day. A lie of omission is she’s leaving a little something out. Can’t you detect this? If it doesn’t sound right, it isn’t.

Does a man actually believe a woman will deliberately incriminate herself? You must be joking.
Now if you are a passive, you need to really learn to use an emotional switch. Click!!!!
“Who are you again lady?”

 

[Poonani Maker]

I've been dealing with one having many of those traits for the past 2 years. She's Italian from New Jersey. I began to categorize her to the "New England" or Yankee workaholic or soulless entity. She said, "Rumor has it..." so'n'so "has been telling you that I've been texting" them or others about me or behind my back. Naaah, it was not "Rumor has it." I KNOW these people (guys younger than me who she facebooks (I don't do that site)), and a guy wouldn't say "oh yeah, matter of fact, she Did text me this morning asking me about you" if I'd changed my way of doing things. Nah, this guy I know admires me (at least he pretends to, but I believe he does, could be wrong) and I trust most dudes (hard-working dudes) over a woman any day so, I can really only go on my instincts or intuition, feel, awareness, years of experience on this planet. You just go with your gut. So I KNOW this guy is not lying, so she must be bold-faced lying to my face (at which point on the spot I turn away from her and ignore her and from THAT MOMENT turn myself OFF to her NEVER trusting her again and she knows it - and this has been going on for a month now that she's been in my sh!t house - she thinks it's just gonna blow over and we'll be on good terms again - nu uh, she has Nothing that I Want. She may think "all guys want sex with me," but as far as I'm concerned she's DEAD or non-existent. She crossed the line, the boundaries, a Severe breach, and thus My behavior does a 180. She's never seen this before from me, the Seriousness and the Decisiveness in my side. For 2-3 years she has seen nothing but easy-going, but now...you breach my trust, you're gone! Whenever she says, "Hey" or "Hello" I'm mumbling back the same cause I simply do NOT want to talk to her and she goes on a schpeel or explaining of herself or before that, how she's angry (no more of that long nastiness speech, it's all I'm sorry now but I don't CARE), I'll turn away and her voice becomes "blah blah blah blah blah blah" hitting my dulled skull. I'm very good at not listening, I'm too old for millennial glossing over obvious Breaches. I'm too shell-shocked (and I do have ringing in my ears to boot) and can cut her voice out of my mind in person, live feed and Rude (as it may seem to any other present) as would a limb being severed by machinery. And she KNOWS it that not only am I not listening to her in real-time, but that she's become vaporized (probably for life) in my world and that I want nothing to do with her (FOREVER). I know it's harsh, but I don't have Time for such souls, when 95% of the other souls are treating me so well.

 

[lamath]

The good news is that once you go through it one good time, your frame is 100% rock solid. Super painful--but you learn to never prioritize someone else's experience of reality over your own ever again.

i agree that experience is the best teacher on this, but some men are so desperate that they will fall for it many time over.

 

[Ranger]

i agree that experience is the best teacher on this, but some men are so desperate that they will fall for it many time over.

Like a pathetic little wuss.

 

[Toddz]

I literally just went through this with a woman I was dating for the past 3 months.

Everything appeared normal in the beginning, but around month 2 there started to be some major red flags. Dropping I love you's and how amazing a couple we are, asking me about other women and if I was sleeping around, then flaking on multiple dates with lying excuses and the next day telling me how much she misses me, calling or texting me nonstop at night if I was out with friends... The list goes on and I felt like it was a constant roller coaster with her. The sex was really good, I suppose that's why I tolerated it for as long as I did. Definitely a toxic relationship to be in with no stability and security. Gotta bail at any of those signs especially that early.

 

[Spaz]

Women only have power when you give yours away.

By themselves, women are nothing and deep down they know it, which is why their default mode is lies, manipulation and more lies.

It's their preeminent survival skill.

And all a man needs to counteract it is by being naturally dismissive.

 

[lamath]

Like a pathetic little wuss.

No self respect, it is pathetic indeed