Did your wife/ex-wife change after kids?

[AttackFormation]

I’ve thought about the idea of following a woman’s thought process on this.
I don’t think there is one. Her feelings just changed and that’s what she went with. When that happened she had to justify or make some sort of reasoning out of it.
I don’t believe it was a diabolical plan or some dark hidden agenda.
I’m sure for gold diggers, at some level it is. But not even close to our strategic thought processes.

I agree with this and should have put my post in more suitable terms. I don't think that "women are out to get you", that's a stupid idea to walk around having and it's part of the reason why I don't frequent garbage sites by and for misogynists and morons like Return of Kings or listen to the ironically named MGTOW channels (ironic because their "independence of way" seems to still revolve around complaining about and stereotyping women). But people work as you describe... feeling>action>rationalization. "Free will" is just an imaginary concept, feelings are what the driver of animal life is.

That is actually half the reason why having kids in a relationship is so dangerous to you. We can't predict changes in feelings. She could really feel one way one day, but start feeling another the next... that point is when the family breaks, and you merely choose whether to keep the broken pieces under one roof or two. You cannot go back to square one like if you had no kids.

 

[AJ84]

Disgusting gaslighting. Dad wasn't around growing up I guess.

On the flip side I bet @AJ84 had a decent father around, did I guess right?

My parents divorced due to his constant cheating but they remained friends. Weird right haha. He was always around. He was a good dad, just not a great husband. Funny as hell too, and crude and charming. He never stopped loving my mom but she moved on.

God rest his soul.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

What does it matter whether she withholds sex, or has "sex" only out of obligation... I don't at all share this view that things used to be better and now feminism or whatever has screwed it up. It simply expressed what was already there.

Yeah but they are TAKING ACTION with full support of her sisters. Back in the day her sisters may advice her that she might feel that way but she needs to "try"

 

[speed dawg]

3 kids and married here. I guess I will weigh in on this subject.

Sex was great at first, waned about the time we got married mainly due to me. Got pregnant, then we f*cked more than ever, got pregnant again, and once the second kid was about 2 or 3, we started having pretty regular sex, not quite as often, but the quality was better than I've ever had, and it sort of surprised me. It was almost like I was f*cking a different person each time, can't really explain it. Anyways, got pregnant again. I got a vasectomy after that. Since then it's been pretty down. I'm hoping it's about to kick back up because that kid is now about 3 and getting independent. In addition, I got semi-depressed or went through a mid-life crisis or something. I changed jobs and seem to be getting back on track now, but we haven't gotten back to the 2015 sex levels. Problem is, I'm 37, and I'm having trouble getting my 'desire' back up to optimum levels too. That's another story altogether (quit working out, possible low T, etc. things that can be fixed).

Make no mistake, kids running around the house, in your bed, etc. causes you to do it less. No getting around that. I mean I guess you can always go out and spend a bunch of money on vacations and dinners to have 'fun'. Biggest thing is to not get 'stuck'. You have to continue to live life and have some excitement going on, no matter how tired you are.

I don't think there's anything sinister going on here outside basic Game principles. Keep her IL high, and you'll get more sex. It will just be more on a practical type basis, because that's the way it has to be if you're trying to run a functional family.

I've found the best time is the mornings. You wake up with a hard-on anyway, and there's no pressure to perform or think or anything because you're sort of groggy, both of you have stank breath, whatever.

It's also a situation where you have to go get what you want, and don't stop until you do. I'm not saying commit rape, ok...that's not what I'm saying. I'm simply saying to be the alpha and go put the moves on her, don't wait for her to do it. This is tougher than it sounds especially in a LTR or marriage when the day to day life becomes mundane and perhaps your confidence wanes.

But there again, it all comes back to confidence, and the basic things still affect that. Nothing changes from 20 to 40. Have to be comfortable in your own skin and what you do with your time. I still say the best start to gain this back is physical exertion (exercise, working out, etc.).

 

[AttackFormation]

Why the assumption? Because you showed empathy for men in this thread that sacz was utterly incapable of. Something triggered her very early and she became some sort of monster lol

She's been more impish and lashing out lately. Maybe something happened around the holidays?

 

[Ranger]

Why the assumption? Because you showed empathy for men in this thread that sacz was utterly incapable of. Something triggered her very early and she became some sort of monster lol

It is very important to understand sazc. She is a Feminine Imperative warrior. She has her good points I would think but she is very skilled at subversive interjection. She could crush most men on here without a thought.
She is a dyed in the wool feminist. I like when she posts. It’s getting really easy to see the power of the imperative through her thought processes.
The down side is that unskilled men are easy prey for the thoughts processes that hit deep inside them. Beware. True skill.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

It is very important to understand sazc. She is a Feminine Imperative warrior. She has her good points I would think but she is very skilled at subversive interjection. She could crush most men on here without a thought.
She is a dyed in the wool feminist. I like when she posts. It’s getting really easy to see the power of the imperative through her thought processes.
The down side is that unskilled men are easy prey for the thoughts processes that hit deep inside them. Beware. True skill.

They know all the triggers and hooks that have been inserted into the male mind.

 

[AttackFormation]

It is very important to understand sazc. She is a Feminine Imperative warrior. She has her good points I would think but she is very skilled at subversive interjection. She could crush most men on here without a thought.
She is a dyed in the wool feminist. I like when she posts. It’s getting really easy to see the power of the imperative through her thought processes.
The down side is that unskilled men are easy prey for the thoughts processes that hit deep inside them. Beware. True skill.

I think men have a natural tendency to be accommodating and sympathetic to women, and this idea that we are living in a time when our "manliness" is being "suppressed" is delusional. Most men are what we'd describe as beta/white knight. This tendency is what's behind the "men are easy prey for the thought processes that hit deep inside them" line you wrote. Humans have been evolving more neotenous traits, more cooperative and empathetic behaviors compared to our nearest relatives. We have been evolving away from the "alpha" caricature*, not toward it, and you see this reflected in male and female behavior dynamics.

*Which itself is a stupid idea you sometimes see spouted, the idea that a "bigger, stronger, tougher" man is an alpha male when it's exactly those traits that humans have been evolving away from (smaller and weaker bones, less muscle, more neotenous traits, more pro-social behavior) and they have a negligible or even negative (less endurance, higher nutritional requirements) survival value in a species that uses calculation (ambushing him, killing him in his sleep or when he turns his back, shooting him during a hunting trip when no one's looking when you two are alone and you've pretended to be his friend and making it seem like a predator attack, getting the tribe to turn against him, etc.) and tools (obvious, just spear him etc.) as replacements for those things.

 

[speed dawg]

I think men have a natural tendency to be accommodating and sympathetic to women, and this idea that we are living in a time when our "manliness" is being "suppressed" is delusional. Most men are what we'd describe as beta/white knight. This tendency is what's behind the "men are easy prey for the thought processes that hit deep inside them" line you wrote. Humans have been evolving more neotenous traits, more cooperative and empathetic behaviors compared to our nearest relatives. We have been evolving away from the "alpha" caricature*, not toward it, and you see this reflected in male and female behavior dynamics.

*Which itself is a stupid idea you sometimes see spouted, the idea that a "bigger, stronger, tougher" man is an alpha male when it's exactly those traits that humans have been evolving away from (smaller and weaker bones, less muscle, more neotenous traits, more pro-social behavior) and they have a negligible or even negative (less endurance, higher nutritional requirements) survival value in a species that uses calculation (ambushing him, killing him in his sleep or when he turns his back, shooting him during a hunting trip when no one's looking when you two are alone and you've pretended to be his friend and making it seem like a predator attack, getting the tribe to turn against him, etc.) and tools (obvious, just spear him etc.) as replacements for those things.

Not following what you are saying is a stupid idea - clinging to masculine features, or getting rid of them?

Either way, wit and logic have been masculine traits since the beginning of time. There were lots of masculine, brute beastly men working as warriors or soldiers, but kings/chiefs/presidents/etc. know how to manipulate others. It's the leaders who get the women, they are the true embodiment. Stupid men were often considered beta no matter how big they were.

 

[AttackFormation]

Not following what you are saying is a stupid idea - clinging to masculine features, or getting rid of them?

Either way, wit and logic have been masculine traits since the beginning of time. There were lots of masculine, brute beastly men working as warriors or soldiers, but kings/chiefs/presidents/etc. know how to manipulate others. It's the leaders who get the women, they are the true embodiment. Stupid men were often considered beta no matter how big they were.

My point is that being big, strong and tough is not very relevant for humans. Our evolution and our advantages over other species come precisely from tools, abstract calculations, and pro-social behaviors that lessen the importance of those traits compared to other species. The fact that women are attracted to those traits is a remnant of our long gone ancestors from which we also got our older brain parts, not a result of our recent evolution as homo sapiens, and that's why it's a mistake to think back to 50 000 years ago or whatever and imagine it as being some big brutes dominating the weak males like a pack of apes. That's not what the human species's trajectory is, it's not how we work.

And that leads into what my original point was, which is that the men Ranger claims sazc gets to here reflect the kind of man that men mostly are. "Betas" and "beta traits" are not the exception, it's this kind of site that is, but we all feel the pull to revert back and so when women enter the midst those tendencies can start to tug at men again.

 

[sazc]

Disgusting gaslighting. Dad wasn't around growing up I guess.

On the flip side I bet @AJ84 had a decent father around, did I guess right?

My father was around and married to my mother. He died when I was 29.

He was an excellent provider, a business owner and we lived a white collar existence, where I got an excellent education. My family never moved once in my childhood. Home was always HOME. Family vacations happened, large extended family all around me for holidays and just to socialize with. I was never messed with emotionally, sexually or physically. I had a GREAT childhood.

You suck at picking dude, no intuition. Explains why you are SO frustrated with the women in your life.

Your constantly petty too, always trying to provoke so ppl will engage you, why? What is the attention seeking all about?

Have a great day!

 

[sazc]

Disgusting gaslighting. Dad wasn't around growing up I guess.

On the flip side I bet @AJ84 had a decent father around, did I guess right?

And why not throw a derrogatory term or two into the discussion? Gaslighting, shaming...

It's WAY easier to do that as a cop out when you have nothing intelligent to engage or discuss on, eh?

 

[AJ84]

[

My father was around and married to my mother. He died when I was 29.

He was an excellent provider, a business owner and we lived a white collar existence, where I got an excellent education. My family never moved once in my childhood. Home was always HOME. Family vacations happened, large extended family all around me for holidays and just to socialize with. I was never messed with emotionally, sexually or physically. I had a GREAT childhood.

You suck at picking dude, no intuition. Explains why you are SO frustrated with the women in your life.

Your constantly petty too, always trying to provoke so ppl will engage you, why? What is the attention seeking all about?

Have a great day!

My Dad died a few years ago.

Sounds like you had an awesome upbringing.

Despite my parents divorce mine was good too. When some guys here say kids become damaged if there is no father figure around, it’s not the presence or absence of the father, but the quality of the father. And the quality of the mother too.

If a parent is a sh*t parent it’s sometimes better that they are not around.

 

[sazc]

[

My Dad died a few years ago.

Sounds like you had an awesome upbringing.

Despite my parents divorce mine was good too. When some guys here say kids become damaged if there is no father figure around, it’s not the presence or absence of the father, but the quality of the father. And the quality of the mother too.

If a parent is a sh*t parent it’s sometimes better that they are not around.

I agree with you. There's a lot on this site that gets polarized, and it isn't typically "for the better" for the collective.
I am still floored about how good I had it. I thought everyone's childhood was like mine.

Then, I turn 18 and we (my friends and I) all graduate and they start confessing how fvcked up their home life was. Emotional abuse, physical abuse, incest, rape, molestation, alcoholism, the list goes on. I'm still floored about it, and grateful.

 

[sazc]

Haha I might be dead wrong about your dad but the entire last half of your post was projection. Just look at your rude comment in my first quote, what in the actual fvck.

Typical deflection. U are wrong? Deflect!

Yeah, what the actual fvck?

 

[AJ84]

It is very important to understand sazc. She is a Feminine Imperative warrior. She has her good points I would think but she is very skilled at subversive interjection. She could crush most men on here without a thought.
She is a dyed in the wool feminist. I like when she posts. It’s getting really easy to see the power of the imperative through her thought processes.
The down side is that unskilled men are easy prey for the thoughts processes that hit deep inside them. Beware. True skill.

I’ve met dyed in the wool feminists and I don’t think she’s that, to be honest.

I think she, like you, like others here, like me at times, call people on stuff. Sometimes we’re off and sometimes we’re not.

It can get heated at times but it’s nice when there can be a discussion where it doesn’t get personal.

And I think there’s a lot of that dyed in the wool mentality here on the forum, feminist or not.

 

[sazc]

I’ve met dyed in the wool feminists and I don’t think she’s that, to be honest.

I think she, like you, like others here, like me at times, call people on stuff. Sometimes we’re off and sometimes we’re not.

It can get heated at times but it’s nice when there can be a discussion where it doesn’t get personal.

And I think there’s a lot of that dyed in the wool mentality here on the forum, feminist or not.

It's funny how they are so scared of me that they refuse to tag me for fear of me seeing it, lol. The *alpha* men have to whisper behind the scenes, lol

 

[sazc]

6 pages of you doing this in this very thread

When I see you interjecting yourself into a conversation JUST to antagonize, and then call you out on it, and your reply is your standard "deflection", you BET I'm going to remind you that attention seeking behavior is for weak people. Yes. Beta hurts baby.

You don't like it? Don't be an a$$hole.

 

[sazc]

What exactly was your interjection in page 1 again?

Sorry babe, I don't have time to play nonsense games with children, move along

 

[sazc]

To be fair, the topic of this thread is, "Did your wife/ex-wife change after kids." Not, "How do you think you could improve as a husband and father."

Now, I haven't read through the whole thread yet, but I've already seen some self-assessment. Meanwhile there seems to be some examples, if not consensus, of the wives not being so self-examining.

Understood. Like I state in the thread, in detail, and in different dimensions, all relationships change when you have a child. Ppl may myopically believe "I didn't change a bit!" But both people are going to change.