Can women be in relationship with no drama?

[flowtheory]

I don’t have anything against women; let this be known so this isn’t a hater post. However, I have been in relationships with many women, and time and time again, each one creates little dramas over the smallest, medium sized, silliest, and warranted things. Essentially it’s enescapable. I don’t know what this is, or if it is even stoppable.
I’ve seen it with my friends also. And it’s not even them actually being mad, because it’s weirdly manageable even for me. But it’s there.

The only women I haven’t had these little dramas with are women I JUST sleep with or women who are not as blessed with looks (5.5’s and lower).

What is this.. Tactics for control or never ending sh!t tests, or?

 

[guru1000]

Action ==> Reaction

The latter cannot happen without the former.

When ever looking outward, look inward.

You are just not understanding the “why” which prompts her reaction. Examples would be helpful here to mentally work through.

 

[flowtheory]

Action ==> Reaction

The latter cannot happen without the former.

When ever looking outward, look inward.

You are just not understanding the “why” which prompts her reaction. Examples would be helpful here to mentally work through.

I get what you’re saying and i totally agree. However like many men, we joke around and like to let loose around the women because one should! A relationship or connection is meant for fun. Always serious enough at work and hobbies. So when joking around and not taking everything serious we’re liable not to be ‘perfect’.

I find women look for these opportunities and then exploit them to some sense. Creating a mountain out of a mole hill.

Examples:
1. Slap her lightly on the back or playing with her hair and dropping hand on her “ow, that hurt. You can have aggressive body language sometimes”
2. Talking about past dates because she asked and calling a couple women idiots. She gets offended.
3. While laughing together you playfully say ‘haha shut up’. She gets offended even though she’s said it in the past or something similar.
4. Closing eyes while laying down talking on the bed late at night and she thinks you’re not paying attention even though you tell her you are. She takes it as disrespect.

And note, women will do these same things to men and me. But it’s not a big deal. It’s simply the difference that men’s behaviours seem to be always held under a microscope. And when obviously watching a person intently, everything can be an issue and certainly will be.
Yes, action and reaction is a thing and ultimately I’m and we are responsible for what we give. But always watching ourselves can be exhausting and not really realistic. People make mistakes; always. But to have drama wrapped up in to those... that’s a recipe for disaster.

Because if you turn the tables. If a man always scrutinized her behaviours and used melodrama to neutralize, a woman would be gone faster than the wind. But as men it’s like we have to brush everything off and pretend it doesn’t matter. Because if we show it matters, they push that button harder. From my experience.

I’m looking for ways to neutralize this all together while still having freedom of play. I’m just starting to realize it’s been a common thread. And yes I could be the solution to my own question like you originally stated

 

[guru1000]

You are the only solution to your own question.

Is this not your third thread or PM regarding this girl in the last 2-3 weeks? What does this tell you about your choice to be exclusive with her?

Edit: to expand on this. I bet she wouldn’t act this way toward me as she would have worked hard for my exclusivity and the minute she tried to pull any acts I found distasteful, she would be dismissed.

Every women is moldable. The deeper question is is she worth the effort.

 

[BeExcellent]

Because if you turn the tables. If a man always scrutinized her behaviours and used melodrama to neutralize, a woman would be gone faster than the wind. But as men it’s like we have to brush everything off and pretend it doesn’t matter. Because if we show it matters, they push that button harder. From my experience.

I’m looking for ways to neutralize this all together while still having freedom of play. I’m just starting to realize it’s been a common thread.

Advice from the old lady:

You've already got the answer. Turn the tables. Do it. Hold her accountable and scrutinize her behavior. Notice what happens when you mentally work through that scenario in your mind...

You feel fear that she'll leave. That you won't find another one like her, etc. You have a scarcity mindset, you fear consequences...you become conflict averse...and therefore your frame collapses.

Ouch. I know. That is why your view comes in its current perspective. Change your perspective, change your view.

In your first example noted in your list lies a good teachable scenario. Ok. She says "Gee you have aggressive behavior sometimes". Own that. OWN it. Say "I know baby. But I'm a man and that is my masculine nature". and drive on. This is what my man does. He owns his masculine nature, he makes no apologies whatsoever for that sort of thing.

Now. Obviously some women have higher value to you and your individual ambitions in the dating realm than others. The women with intrinsically higher value as defined by your standards ARE harder to find, etc. Everybody wants the most desirable total package they can get...BUT...you can't operate from a place of fear of loss. You must remain outcome independent even as you develop a connection to someone.

This is why vulnerability must always come from a place of inner courage and strength. You allow someone into your human experience understanding you are exposing yourself to the risk of hurt and pain.

Scrutinizing a woman's behavior and holding her accountable is a by product of your own self respect. You can't sacrifice your self respect to avoid conflicts, large or small. You'll erode her respect for you if you do not honor your own self respect, and you'll kill the attraction between you.

My boyfriend holds my feet to the fire. I hold his feet to the fire as well. The challenge in any good relationship is to respect yourself as an individual AND treat the other person with dignity and respect. That doesn't always line up. It WILL create conflict. That's OK and can be quite healthy.

When you have your first fight in a relationship it means you aren't lined up with your partner so you experience conflict. How you work through that conflict is telling. My man and I first realized the relationship might have legs the night we had our first fight (and we fight at times and we've had some doozies)...

It is the intrinsic value we see in the other person that keeps us coming together...that in combination with our own individual self regard. We retain our individual selves while the relationship deepens & develops. But we both also retain the strength to walk away if necessary. It's a balance.

So examine your perspective. Hold her accountable. Do not be a jerk but do not allow her to chip away your frame either.

It's a fine line as things grow & progress...but worth the rewards with a quality partner.

 

[flowtheory]

You are the only solution to your own question.

Is this not your third thread or PM regarding this girl in the last 2-3 weeks? What does this tell you about your choice to be exclusive with her?

Edit: to expand on this. I bet she wouldn’t act this way toward me as she would have worked hard for my exclusivity and the minute she tried to pull any acts I found distasteful, she would be dismissed.

Every women is moldable. The deeper question is is she worth the effort.

Regarding my threads or PM’s about her; there’s nothing necessarily wrong. It’s more-so me investigating real-time situations so I have the knowledge on how to navigate. We have a great connection and it’s mostly all good. There are just some ‘things’ that make me raise an eyebrow and want to know how to best move forward.

And maybe she wouldn’t have acted like this towards you? But let’s not compare. You have way more experience and knowledge than me.

She could be worth the effort. I’m still carefully watching with eyes wide open. There are a few flags, for sure; even aside from some dramas such as what I noted. Also note why I make threads - to gain clarity.
It’s not always so simple navigating relationships when you’ve been burned and lack knowledge which many here have had for years and years.

 

[flowtheory]

Advice from the old lady:

You've already got the answer. Turn the tables. Do it. Hold her accountable and scrutinize her behavior. Notice what happens when you mentally work through that scenario in your mind...

You feel fear that she'll leave. That you won't find another one like her, etc. You have a scarcity mindset, you fear consequences...you become conflict averse...and therefore your frame collapses.

Ouch. I know. That is why your view comes in its current perspective. Change your perspective, change your view.

In your first example noted in your list lies a good teachable scenario. Ok. She says "Gee you have aggressive behavior sometimes". Own that. OWN it. Say "I know baby. But I'm a man and that is my masculine nature". and drive on. This is what my man does. He owns his masculine nature, he makes no apologies whatsoever for that sort of thing.

Now. Obviously some women have higher value to you and your individual ambitions in the dating realm than others. The women with intrinsically higher value as defined by your standards ARE harder to find, etc. Everybody wants the most desirable total package they can get...BUT...you can't operate from a place of fear of loss. You must remain outcome independent even as you develop a connection to someone.

This is why vulnerability must always come from a place of inner courage and strength. You allow someone into your human experience understanding you are exposing yourself to the risk of hurt and pain.

Scrutinizing a woman's behavior and holding her accountable is a by product of your own self respect. You can't sacrifice your self respect to avoid conflicts, large or small. You'll erode her respect for you if you do not honor your own self respect, and you'll kill the attraction between you.

My boyfriend holds my feet to the fire. I hold his feet to the fire as well. The challenge in any good relationship is to respect yourself as an individual AND treat the other person with dignity and respect. That doesn't always line up. It WILL create conflict. That's OK and can be quite healthy.

When you have your first fight in a relationship it means you aren't lined up with your partner so you experience conflict. How you work through that conflict is telling. My man and I first realized the relationship might have legs the night we had our first fight (and we fight at times and we've had some doozies)...

It is the intrinsic value we see in the other person that keeps us coming together...that in combination with our own individual self regard. We retain our individual selves while the relationship deepens & develops. But we both also retain the strength to walk away if necessary. It's a balance.

So examine your perspective. Hold her accountable. Do not be a jerk but do not allow her to chip away your frame either.

It's a fine line as things grow & progress...but worth the rewards with a quality partner.

Great response.

I don’t feel I have a scarcity mindset towards her as I’ve asserted and communicated that I will walk away if I fee disrespect or something which is of equal gravity. I’ve made it abundantly clear that I have no qualms about walking on alone. Anytime I do that, her body language changes and she relaxes heavily. So I have a feeling she’s still pushing buttons to see what I do in various circumstances; sparring in some ways. I can tell she’s scared an has anxiety with intimate connection.

I don’t necessarily communicate overtly her poorer behaviours as I don’t really want to argue or create turbulent waters; that’s more-so for me though rather than her.

Maybe I should overtly tell her some things when I don’t necessarily like it. But I’ve always found this to maybe be ineffective, no?

 

[AJ84]

Great response.

I don’t feel I have a scarcity mindset towards her as I’ve asserted and communicated that I will walk away if I fee disrespect or something which is of equal gravity. I’ve made it abundantly clear that I have no qualms about walking on alone. Anytime I do that, her body language changes and she relaxes heavily. So I have a feeling she’s still pushing buttons to see what I do in various circumstances; sparring in some ways. I can tell she’s scared an has anxiety with intimate connection.

I don’t necessarily communicate overtly her poorer behaviours as I don’t really want to argue or create turbulent waters; that’s more-so for me though rather than her.

Maybe I should overtly tell her some things when I don’t necessarily like it. But I’ve always found this to maybe be ineffective, no?

Scared and has anxiety with intimate connection - that may explain what’s behind some of her behaviour.

Some people lash out as a way to keep people out.

 

[Trump]

Come on bro, you are 30+ years old. Have you guys not lived or experienced life? Any women would use any weakness against you if it attacks your self esteem and increases her psychological power over you.

In my opinion, screw this “being vulnerable” with women. That doesn’t mean it’s the mans way or the highway. But to expose your emotions and weaknesses hoping she will fall in love with you more? Dream on. The relationship she wants is: have fun, make her feel protected, make her think you achieving your goals, make her think you can leave anytime and have sex with another girl anytime, make her think you are not 100% focused on her. She does not want a relationship where she is your therapist.

That’s why I never listen when a girl says “we need to talk.” She doesn’t want to talk. She wants to extract information to destroy you later.

 

[flowtheory]

Come on bro, you are 30+ years old. Have you guys not lived or experienced life? Any women would use any weakness against you if it attacks your self esteem and increases her psychological power over you.

In my opinion, screw this “being vulnerable” with women. That doesn’t mean it’s the mans way or the highway. But to expose your emotions and weaknesses hoping she will fall in love with you more? Dream on. The relationship she wants is: have fun, make her feel protected, make her think you achieving your goals, make her think you can leave anytime and have sex with another girl anytime, make her think you are not 100% focused on her. She does not want a relationship where she is your therapist.

That’s why I never listen when a girl says “we need to talk.” She doesn’t want to talk. She wants to extract information to destroy you later.

What are you talking about; I don’t use her as my therapist?
And I really don’t believe your summary of what a woman wants in a relationship is very accurate..

Scared and has anxiety with intimate connection - that may explain what’s behind some of her behaviour.

Some people lash out as a way to keep people out.

Yes, I’ve thought about this. I know she definety has some inner work to do - like everyone - in terms of relaxing in an intimate connection. I suppose maybe it’s simply recognizing it and doing my best to show her I’m stable. And overtime it creates a ‘safer space’ if she’s doing her part too, of course

 

[Glassguy]

When a woman fully submits to you there will be little to no drama.

If she hasnt or you have allowed her small disrespectful snide to continue there will be more drama.

 

[The Duke]

I've been fortunate enough to have 4 girls that were zero drama. They are very rare. All four of them were very rational minded and independent. If you want girls that are less drama first start with one that is more independent. They won't be as sweet, but thats the trade off.

The next step is to set and define boundaries and solid expectations from the start. Let her know you aren't afraid to leave when she pushes the boundaries.

Women that are committed to you have a natural desire to please their man once you have established you are at the controls and she realizes what is appropriate and what isn't.

 

[BeExcellent]

Maybe I should overtly tell her some things when I don’t necessarily like it. But I’ve always found this to maybe be ineffective, no?

You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by letting her know if something bothers you. She can't modify or adjust her behavior out of desire to please you if she doesn't know something bugs you.

However, having said that you must pick and choose your battles and what hills you might or might not be willing to die on. Any other human being is going to annoy you at times. Somethings you are better served to let slide...maybe you are overly grumpy on occasion. It happens. Other things you need to discuss with her, but you get to choose which thing warrants ignoring/forgiving and which things require discussion. If you are having an anxious or negative reaction to something? That needs discussed more than likely.

I'll give you an example: My BF always leaves the seat of the toilet up. ALWAYS. I prefer to have it down. I let this slide. Many women would throw a fit over this issue. It doesn't matter to me. I can put the toilet seat down just as easily as he can, it's not worth conflict.

My BF and I both agree that remaining in contact with "friends" of the opposite sex may create an environment which encourages dalliances outside the relationship and this issue is important enough to each of us that friends of the opposite sex warrant discussion. We both have obligations to our exes that require a relationship to be maintained, but beyond that we address these individuals on a case by case basis, even though the discussions are at times a little uncomfortable for each of us. He doesn't want to cut me off from someone I've known for 30+ years and introduced him to...I'm not going to cut him off from people he's known for years either that I've met and who are observably supportive of my place as the GF. Many on SS would say this is a hard and fast thing, but I think it's more nuanced than that and at the end of the day its on us as individuals to act with character in relation to the other person. That is why you communicate.

In my opinion, screw this “being vulnerable” with women.

Unless you eventually allow another human being into your inner circle you'll never be able to share your life experience deeply and meaningfully with someone. So your existance and your relationships will lack depth and will lack meaning, and you will be largely deprived of love, which is something all humans innately need and desire. Nobody is perfect. People will disappoint you and hurt you. That is the human experience. Sure your relationships will give you pain and suffering at times. ANY relationship will. But intimate relationships can also give you great meaning and joy and fulfillment, and it's worth the risk of the pain to experience the joy.

Scared and has anxiety with intimate connection - that may explain what’s behind some of her behaviour.

Some people lash out as a way to keep people out.

Very few people marry the person they loose their virginity to and stay married to that person for life in this day and age. So MOST people are going to carry some fear of intimacy into relationships because MOST people have experienced the hurt of a failed relationship. I do, my BF does, and those are thorny realities of allowing intimacy to be established. Encourage her to remain transparent about her fears, and don't be afraid to share your own as context indicates.

Be patient with one another; be kind. There is nothing non-manly about being patient and kind to a woman who treats you in a like fashion.

 

[MillionBillionaire]

I get what you’re saying and i totally agree. However like many men, we joke around and like to let loose around the women because one should! A relationship or connection is meant for fun. Always serious enough at work and hobbies. So when joking around and not taking everything serious we’re liable not to be ‘perfect’.

I find women look for these opportunities and then exploit them to some sense. Creating a mountain out of a mole hill.

Examples:
1. Slap her lightly on the back or playing with her hair and dropping hand on her “ow, that hurt. You can have aggressive body language sometimes”
2. Talking about past dates because she asked and calling a couple women idiots. She gets offended.
3. While laughing together you playfully say ‘haha shut up’. She gets offended even though she’s said it in the past or something similar.
4. Closing eyes while laying down talking on the bed late at night and she thinks you’re not paying attention even though you tell her you are. She takes it as disrespect.

And note, women will do these same things to men and me. But it’s not a big deal. It’s simply the difference that men’s behaviours seem to be always held under a microscope. And when obviously watching a person intently, everything can be an issue and certainly will be.
Yes, action and reaction is a thing and ultimately I’m and we are responsible for what we give. But always watching ourselves can be exhausting and not really realistic. People make mistakes; always. But to have drama wrapped up in to those... that’s a recipe for disaster.

Because if you turn the tables. If a man always scrutinized her behaviours and used melodrama to neutralize, a woman would be gone faster than the wind. But as men it’s like we have to brush everything off and pretend it doesn’t matter. Because if we show it matters, they push that button harder. From my experience.

I’m looking for ways to neutralize this all together while still having freedom of play. I’m just starting to realize it’s been a common thread. And yes I could be the solution to my own question like you originally stated

She sounds asian..

and yes all women are full of drama .. sometimes It's worth it, sometimes the drama is exciting if you reaaaaaallly lust for her.

but most times it's a pain in the ass.

Learn to be bigger than your silly girlfriends childish behavior.

 

[Trump]

Unless you eventually allow another human being into your inner circle you'll never be able to share your life experience deeply and meaningfully with someone. So your existance and your relationships will lack depth and will lack meaning, and you will be largely deprived of love, which is something all humans innately need and desire. Nobody is perfect. People will disappoint you and hurt you. That is the human experience. Sure your relationships will give you pain and suffering at times. ANY relationship will. But intimate relationships can also give you great meaning and joy and fulfillment, and it's worth the risk of the pain to experience the joy.

True. Intimate relationships are great and you can share life experiences and all that “nice” stuff. But to tell a woman your vulnerabilities and weaknesses? No thanks.

Come on dear, you have enough life experience to know any women who doesn’t get way and has emotional leverage over you will use it to her fullest advantage. Now imagine during a divorce or breakup, a good amount of money was at stake. Do you think a woman would care the relationship had meaning a few years ago? She wouldn’t even talk to you. She would say “just make sure the money is my account by this date, if it’s not, my lawyer will contact you.” Angelina vs Brad anyone?

Men, don’t look for a deep personal connection with your soulmate. It will be used against you. This isn’t Iran or the 1950s. Women have public opinion, the state, the system, Hollywood, feminism, the police, the law, and the courts behind them and will use them all against you if they don’t get their way.

You want to go war with that? Good luck.

 

[Bible_Belt]

Just scream at her until she starts crying. There you go, you got your drama. Now we move on.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Can't tell you how many married men (not some red pill guys) have told me this. This was just common old school advice. You want to show weakness you do it at the Lodge. Leave your problems at the door.

Dont tell her shyt dont complain to her dont argue with women is common married advice.

 

[longtail]

I don’t have anything against women; let this be known so this isn’t a hater post. Essentially it’s enescapable. I don’t know what this is, or if it is even stoppable.
I’ve seen it with my friends also. And it’s not even them actually being mad, because it’s weirdly manageable even for me. But it’s there.

The only women I haven’t had these little dramas with are women I JUST sleep with or women who are not as blessed with looks (5.5’s and lower).

What is this.. Tactics for control or never ending sh!t tests, or?

LMAO, Mr BluePill "you should trust all women" can't trust any women to treat him nicely. Ah boo hoo, mr. simp gets butthurt by any women who misbehaves.

Dude, you're over 30 years old and banging 1/10 caliber girls by your own admission: "women who are not as blessed with looks" LOL. Not only that, you break out into a crying jag since every woman treats you like a b1tch.

LMAO: "Inescapable, endless sh!t tests"! It's so obvious you're a beta; women treat you as their S&M ass-wipe. You are beta-boy to them. No wonder you throw infantile tantrums on this forum. It makes perfect sense.

Get some therapy and get off this board.

 

[longtail]

Come on bro, you are 30+ years old. Have you guys not lived or experienced life? Any women would use any weakness against you if it attacks your self esteem and increases her psychological power over you.

In my opinion, screw this “being vulnerable” with women. That doesn’t mean it’s the mans way or the highway. But to expose your emotions and weaknesses hoping she will fall in love with you more? Dream on. The relationship she wants is: have fun, make her feel protected, make her think you achieving your goals, make her think you can leave anytime and have sex with another girl anytime, make her think you are not 100% focused on her. She does not want a relationship where she is your therapist.

That’s why I never listen when a girl says “we need to talk.” She doesn’t want to talk. She wants to extract information to destroy you later.

"Vaginalflowtheory" is clearly an incel. He has no real world experience with women and is expressing his heartache over an imaginary girlfriend who IRL is the fat cashier at mcdonald's who refuses to give him her number.

There's no way an experienced player gets this anxious over women if he's had any experience at all.

 

[Ranger]

I get what you’re saying and i totally agree. However like many men, we joke around and like to let loose around the women because one should! A relationship or connection is meant for fun. Always serious enough at work and hobbies. So when joking around and not taking everything serious we’re liable not to be ‘perfect’.

I find women look for these opportunities and then exploit them to some sense. Creating a mountain out of a mole hill.

Examples:
1. Slap her lightly on the back or playing with her hair and dropping hand on her “ow, that hurt. You can have aggressive body language sometimes”
2. Talking about past dates because she asked and calling a couple women idiots. She gets offended.
3. While laughing together you playfully say ‘haha shut up’. She gets offended even though she’s said it in the past or something similar.
4. Closing eyes while laying down talking on the bed late at night and she thinks you’re not paying attention even though you tell her you are. She takes it as disrespect.

And note, women will do these same things to men and me. But it’s not a big deal. It’s simply the difference that men’s behaviours seem to be always held under a microscope. And when obviously watching a person intently, everything can be an issue and certainly will be.
Yes, action and reaction is a thing and ultimately I’m and we are responsible for what we give. But always watching ourselves can be exhausting and not really realistic. People make mistakes; always. But to have drama wrapped up in to those... that’s a recipe for disaster.

Because if you turn the tables. If a man always scrutinized her behaviours and used melodrama to neutralize, a woman would be gone faster than the wind. But as men it’s like we have to brush everything off and pretend it doesn’t matter. Because if we show it matters, they push that button harder. From my experience.

I’m looking for ways to neutralize this all together while still having freedom of play. I’m just starting to realize it’s been a common thread. And yes I could be the solution to my own question like you originally stated

This would have been set up to happen long before. IMO