Height and OLD

[zekko]

Huh? I don’t get it what this has to do with “worthiness.”

I said lying about your height is an admission that your true self is not worthy of a date. Apparently "worthy" was a bad word to use, because it has triggered some people and Spaz and Guru want to grab it by the wrong end of the stick and beat me with it.

Think of it in terms of SMV if you prefer. If a woman screens out all men under 6', then she considers those guys to have too low an SMV for her (or she considers them unworthy, to use the bad word). A 5'8" guy who lies is trying to make his SMV appear to be higher than it really is so he can be noticed by the screening woman. Not my cup of tea, but y'all are welcome to do as you please. As I've said, I've had friends who lied to women all the time.

I don't see how it is much different than a woman who posts a thin picture of herself, and then when she shows up for the date she is 40 pounds heavier. Guys here complain about that all the time.

 

[4evehayoung]

And here we have men shaming other men for lying to women, yet women are the biggest manipulators stemming all the way back to the fictional story of Adam and Eve. Even men at that time knew to create a story depicting the nature of wo-man, the covert manipulation of Adam to eat the apple.

Yet, many 9s without makeup are magical 6s. Is it truly magic? But we pretend it's not so.

Padded bras, tight skirts, high heels for height and accentuation of legs, lipstick, blush, concealer, eyeliner, eye shadows, lip injections or plumpers .. and off to the infinite nether lands. Let's not even begin with ever so spellbinding cosmetic injections, chemical/laser peels, boob jobs, azz injections prevalent (and kept secret) in the 8-10 club.

But let us men shame the man who increases his height by two inches on his online profile.

Nobility is painted as virtue only by those who are blind to reality.

Well said Guru, well said. That magically sums it up.

 

[AJ84]

Dang! I missed this one too. Somethings wrong with the notifications.

Yes, women do all those (as you're mentioned) to get the attentions of men.

Period.

There's no worthiness involved there at all as it's all rooted in lies and manipulation.

Period.

And I'm not even complaining about it. In fact I rather enjoy seeing women do it.

Period.

Which points back towards why the fuss over a mere 2" by a man that's being projected in an OLD profile ?

If it's not a problem to begin with then why do some people keep on implying that it's "bad". And the key word here is implying.

It’s not bad per se, people lie about their appearance all the time in OLD.

What’s laughable, to me anyway, is how a man’s lie is compartmentalized by you and Guru as some innovative masculine mastermind game strategy, outside the box.

When I say own it, I mean own that fact that it’s a lie, not necessarily bad, but not some genius move either.

‘I lie about myself to get laid’ that’s it.

Dang! I missed this one too. Somethings wrong with the notifications.

Yes, women do all those (as you're mentioned) to get the attentions of men.

Period.

There's no worthiness involved there at all as it's all rooted in lies and manipulation.

Period.

And I'm not even complaining about it. In fact I rather enjoy seeing women do it.

Period.

Which points back towards why the fuss over a mere 2" by a man that's being projected in an OLD profile ?

If it's not a problem to begin with then why do some people keep on implying that it's "bad". And the key word here is implying.

I don’t know Spaz, ask them.

My issue is why a lie is being is being compartmentalized by gender. If a woman lies it’s her manipulative nature blah blah, if a man lies it’s innovative outside the box thinking according to you and Guru.

Like I said people lie. I’m not here to shame that and I’m not going to say I have never lied, but I’m also not going to rationalize it and justify it like it’s some inspired genuis strategy.

 

[guru1000]

@AJ84, lying is outside the box for men, because as a women it is your natural Instinct (for survival) and thus normal.

Back in the era where physical strength distinguished ruler from the ruled, women were absolutely powerless. And so women needed a stratagem to enforce their wills too. This Stratagem was manipulation; hence “woman”—wooing the man. Eve whom originated from the rib of Adam manipulated Adam to eat the apple. Although the story may be fictional in its roots, the ideology still dates back 5700+ years ago showing the intrinsic nature of women has always been the same.

Manipulation is so imbedded in your nature that you could not possibly conceive that lying for a “man” is very outside the social norm.

Your presence here in this thread shaming short men about lying about their height while you wear costumes before you leave the house is a form of manipulation too. What’s even worse is men being manipulated by women (social influence) and shaming other men.

 

[Spaz]

It’s not bad per se, people lie about their appearance all the time in OLD.

What’s laughable, to me anyway, is how a man’s lie is compartmentalized by you and Guru as some innovative masculine mastermind game strategy, outside the box.

When I say own it, I mean own that fact that it’s a lie, not necessarily bad, but not some genius move either.

‘I lie about myself to get laid’ that’s it.


I don’t know Spaz, ask them.

My issue is why a lie is being is being compartmentalized by gender. If a woman lies it’s her manipulative nature blah blah, if a man lies it’s innovative outside the box thinking according to you and Guru.

Like I said people lie. I’m not here to shame that and I’m not going to say I have never lied, but I’m also not going to rationalize it and justify it like it’s some inspired genuis strategy.

Duh.

All we've continually stated was 2" is not a problem for men to lie on OLD and we were countering other arguments that's contrary of our stated stand - giving real life examples is hardly cause to celebrate genius or mastermind game strategy. It's just common sense.

Again, I don't know where you are getting the vibe that what we said is an inspired genius innovative masculine mastermind strategy game thingy - that's certainly a mouthful of words !

But if you find that what we say is an inspired genius innovative masculine mastermind strategy game, just so you know, it doesn't in the least stroke my ego.

I already know exactly what I am.

 

[TheProspect]

A lot of mental gymnastics going on in this thread lol.

If you'd be okay with misrepresenting a product to increase sales at all costs (to "win"), go for it, to each their own. I understand. Of course advertisers and marketers are deceitful and have their own agenda, but I wouldn't agree that their manipulation of the truth is justification for your own.

I would probably agree, however, if one argued that you are at a vast disadvantage if you forgo using misrepresentation in your own dealings in life and with women. Adding an inch or two of height in OLD is as trivial or important as you make it.

If you believe the end justifies the means, then that's okay, I won't say you're wrong (because I don't believe you are, I believe you're doing what works best for you).

I'm in university, and so I could relate the "winning is winning" argument to an "A+ is an A+" argument. It's true. But for me, it's not about winning a game just to win the game. An A+ on an exam means nothing to me if it isn't the result and culmination of the time and effort I put in to achieve it over the last couple of months. Sure it's an A+, but it has lost its intrinsic value to me.

 

[guru1000]

When I say own it, I mean own that fact that it’s a lie, not necessarily bad, but not some genius move either.

‘I lie about myself to get laid’ that’s it.

Depends.

As described in Post 63, often I will lie to make myself appear worse, "I'm a janitor," "This property is not mine." In such scenarios, I lie only to play with her (or to screen). That is my style and how I elect to have fun (or screen).

In the past, I have lied, such as "You are special, so different than the other girls" "I have never met a girl like you before," " we have such an incredible connection." These were lies to sex her quickly geared toward girls who were hurt before and needed a little more comfort and credibility that I would stick around.

These days, there are too many women to choose from on any given night, so I just qualify their likelihood of sex before I meet them. But, even here, if I screened incorrectly and more comfort and reliability needs to be built before sex, I will not hesitate to "provide" it.

 

[HankHill]

I believe I answered that on page 2:

The level of attraction = the size of the lie.
High attraction = little white lie.
Low attraction = you're an immoral piece of....

I do remember that post but didn't think it answered my question. What I'm trying to question is why if we're cat-fished we're ok with getting up and leaving the date - leaving her stuck with the bill for the drinks even (@guru1000 did that recently and I thought she deserved it) but here we are advocating doing the same thing in reverse...lying about our appearance. That's a double standard is all.

 

[guru1000]

I do remember that post but didn't think it answered my question. What I'm trying to question is why if we're cat-fished we're ok with getting up and leaving the date - leaving her stuck with the bill for the drinks even (@guru1000 did that recently and I thought she deserved it) but here we are advocating doing the same thing in reverse...lying about our appearance. That's a double standard is all.

Goes back to your question of how much of the "pretty white lie" is too much.

If girls are walking out on dates, then the man is not serving an effective stratagem.

Though, on that date where I got up and left her there, there were other factors (disrespect) as to why I walked out other than her appearance. I have had dates where the girl showed up 70 lbs heavier and I finished my drink before ejecting.

It's an abstract question with an answer that lies upon the individual. If the man lies about his height, and finds many successes in his meetups, then no harm no foul--it's an effective stratagem.

However, if the man lies to the extent where most/some his dates walk out and feel deceived, then it's a poor stratagem. This man is better to focus on bettering himself or lowering his standards.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

Back when I was using OLD, I had decent success until I hit 41, then it was like a light switch. No more matches from anyone under 40. I'm 42 now but honestly look like I'm about 27. I changed my age to 38 and was back in action again. However, to @guru1000 point about people walking out, my dates went fine as before, but I'd say 50% of the women would absolutely flip when they figured out how old I was. A couple figured it out after we exchanged phone numbers and they'd google search me using my phone number. Once they found out I was 42, even after 1-2 dates that went well, they would flip and call it off. I also tried being up-front about it and straight out telling people near the end of a good first or second date and 50% of the time it didn't go well at all. Lastly, some other women figured it out by asking me a series of detailed questions like, how long have you lived here, how old were you when you moved here. Obviously any hesitation on my part (trying to do math quickly in my head lol) would not look good and they'd figure it out. It was just baffling to me how important a number seemed to them. If I met a woman who was 50 and TRULY looked 30, I'd date her without even thinking twice.

I really never understood the negative reactions. We are talking about a difference of 4 years out of 40 years and so long as you don't look old, I don't see the issue. My only guess for the women who had an issue with it is that it came down to honesty. But I'm not sure what a guy is supposed to do if they would filter me out based on a number even if I look nothing like that age. This is a big part of why I gave up on OLD and am focusing on day game and meeting people at social events.

 

[HankHill]

My only guess for the women who had an issue with it is that it came down to honesty.

You hit it on the head right there. For women who've been duped and lied to majority of their dating lives to get into their pants even one little innocuous lie will scream 'murderer' to them. I never have to worry about explaining or wondering the what-ifs etc, that's putting way too much energy and time into it. I'm an open book, that's my philosophy in life and it has served me well. If someone likes me as I am great if not oh well...then again I'm not trying to add notches on my bed post for a sport so I'm ok waiting for the right one, I don't feel less of a man if I go through a seasonal dry spell. It's all about one's perspective.

As to your filter issue, at 43 I haven't found that to be the case on OKCupid or Bumble. I get matched with chicks from late 29 to 44 (that's my own filter so check your's- the filter settings have to match on both sides). I look a few years younger too since I'm ethnic (just ask @bigdave17 we look 21 forevah lol). Most women are ok dating 10-13 yrs older.

 

[guru1000]

@oldmanofthesea, same thing happened to my friend several times.

However, such never happened to me. I lied about my age before to date women 20-25 years younger. I even had one of their mother's (my age lol) call me on the phone to call me out. I replied, "Did your daughter not lie to be by failing to tell me that her mother was the higher authority in her dating life??" The daughter texted me subsequent stating, "how can she now trust me with big things if I wasn't upfront with her to begin with."

I replied," You are absolutely right. Take care "

She called me a month later to hang out, lol.

True story, I'm still with her today.

I've have dated 50+ women 20-25 years younger successfully with zero hangups in the same manner.

It's a question of attraction. It's either there or it's not. Women don't operate as judges of integrity like men do. They and their attraction operate by emotions ... how you make them feel.

In your cases, either the attraction was not there and they used the "4-year" age difference as the reasoning to eject--or perhaps rather than "Owning it," (e.g. "Yeah and?") you backpedaled, which is an overt signal of weakness--the anathema to attraction.

 

[HankHill]

It's a question of attraction. It's either there or it's not. Women don't operate as judges of integrity like men do. They and their attraction operate by emotions ... how you make them feel. and low-self esteem.

FTFY

Seriously I've been with low self-esteem women and even when I've tried to sabotage the relationship to get them to go away (in my younger years) they still kept coming back...after giving me ultimatums and walking out. They were afraid of being lonely, they didn't think they'd find another decent guy etc etc.

 

[EyeBRollin]

@oldmanofthesea, same thing happened to my friend several times.

However, such never happened to me. I lied about my age before to date women 20-25 years younger. I even had one of their mother's (my age lol) call me on the phone to call me out. I replied, "Did your daughter not lie to be by failing to tell me that her mother was the higher authority in her dating life??" The daughter texted me subsequent stating, "how can she now trust me with big things if I wasn't upfront with her to begin with."

I replied," You are absolutely right. Take care "

She called me a month later to hang out, lol.

True story, I'm still with her today.

I've have dated 50+ women 20-25 years younger successfully with zero hangups in the same manner.

It's a question of attraction. It's either there or it's not. Women don't operate as judges of integrity like men do. They and their attraction operate by emotions ... how you make them feel.

In your cases, either the attraction was not there and they used the "4-year" age difference as the reasoning to eject--or perhaps rather than "Owning it," (e.g. "Yeah and?") you backpedaled, which is an overt signal of weakness--the anathema to attraction.

This post is gold.

My example earlier was similar. I’m 5’7, on my profile I’m 5’9. I was dating a chick who was 5’6 and finally asked “how tall are you?” on our fourth date. I said 5’9, she gave me a side eye then ended up ****ing me later that night. It was never mentioned again.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

In your cases, either the attraction was not there and they used the "4-year" age difference as the reasoning to eject--or perhaps rather than "Owning it," you backpedaled, which is an overt signal of weakness--the anathema to attraction.

I agree that in a couple cases I can recall, the attraction probably wasn't there and they used it as an excuse. But for two others, things were going well and they seemed into me, when they they discovered on their own (through the phone number) that I was older. I experimented with being up-front about my age or hiding it, and it both cases, if called out, or if told, I absolutely owned it. H*ll, I am seriously f*cking proud of how young I look and I enjoy telling people how old I am so I can watch their reaction of shock and disbelief. It never fails. But despite my owning it, the girl's reaction was the same. The last time it happened (about a year ago), I did exactly as you did. She told me over text after two good dates, "Hey, so I looked online and it looks like you are actually 41, about to be 42?" I said, "Yeah that's right. My birthday isn't accurate on FB. If there's anything else you'd like to know about me, all you have to do is ask." She replied, "The age isn't an issue for me at all, but I just didn't even think that you could change your age on the app since it pulls your birthday from FB so this has really weirded me out. I think I should spend tonight packing for me trip instead of hanging out. Take care." I said, "Sounds like a good plan to me! Take care." Never heard from her again. She was an HB6 lol. In this case, I'll never know if she just wasn't that attracted to begin with, or if it is more as HankHill said and she has been lied to too much in the past. I really do think Hank is on to something there - women have this thing about men who are "liars". Probably centering around married men who pretend to be single to get some side action or whatever.

I've dated a few 23-24 year old girls through OLD, but they come very few and far between. Most set their filters to 40. When I'm out at social events, I easily flirt with 21-24 year old women. They assume I'm in my late 20's. I'd like to try OLD again but it's just too hit or miss and I can't stand flipping through a thousand overweight rural women in sports jerseys and camo baseball caps taking mirror selfies in what looks like a messy trailer with 5 kids running around in the background, just to get to one seemingly attractive woman who shows up to the date looking nothing like her pics and is 60# heavier.

 

[EyeBRollin]

Back when I was using OLD, I had decent success until I hit 41, then it was like a light switch. No more matches from anyone under 40. I'm 42 now but honestly look like I'm about 27. I changed my age to 38 and was back in action again. However, to @guru1000 point about people walking out, my dates went fine as before, but I'd say 50% of the women would absolutely flip when they figured out how old I was. A couple figured it out after we exchanged phone numbers and they'd google search me using my phone number. Once they found out I was 42, even after 1-2 dates that went well, they would flip and call it off. I also tried being up-front about it and straight out telling people near the end of a good first or second date and 50% of the time it didn't go well at all. Lastly, some other women figured it out by asking me a series of detailed questions like, how long have you lived here, how old were you when you moved here. Obviously any hesitation on my part (trying to do math quickly in my head lol) would not look good and they'd figure it out. It was just baffling to me how important a number seemed to them. If I met a woman who was 50 and TRULY looked 30, I'd date her without even thinking twice.

I really never understood the negative reactions. We are talking about a difference of 4 years out of 40 years and so long as you don't look old, I don't see the issue. My only guess for the women who had an issue with it is that it came down to honesty. But I'm not sure what a guy is supposed to do if they would filter me out based on a number even if I look nothing like that age. This is a big part of why I gave up on OLD and am focusing on day game and meeting people at social events.

You’re applying logic to something that isn’t logical. My friend turns 40 this year, I finally got him to reduce his age to 35. Age isn’t something you’re obligated to divulge in social situations to begin with because it’s rude as hell to ask. Unless she sees your license, she’ll only find out if you tell her.

The proper response is to go on the attack:

“How old are you?”
“How much do you weigh?”

Or

“How old are you?”
“How much money do you make?”

 

[oldmanofthesea]

Unless she sees your license, she’ll only find out if you tell her.

Like I mentioned, if they have your phone number, they can look you up on google and get your full name, age, city, and a lot of other data for free. It's pretty crazy.

As for your responses, they are entertaining and I can think of a lot more like "How old are you?" "How old do you look without your makeup on?" But I can't imagine this would ever result in a girl wanting to continue a date with you. So again, net-net, you lie about your age and she finds out, she's over it. Saying those things is at best, a parting jab in attempt to get them to see their hypocrisy but I don't think it will ever work.

 

[guru1000]

She told me over text after two good dates, "Hey, so I looked online and it looks like you are actually 41, about to be 42?" I said, "Yeah that's right. My birthday isn't accurate on FB. If there's anything else you'd like to know about me, all you have to do is ask." She replied, "The age isn't an issue for me at all, but I just didn't even think that you could change your age on the app since it pulls your birthday from FB so this has really weirded me out. I think I should spend tonight packing for me trip instead of hanging out. Take care."

She wasn't interested buddy. She was already on the fence about you, and this and your answer tipped her off.

BTW, you should not have given her your attention with or justified, "Yeah that's right. My birthday isn't accurate on FB. If there's anything else you'd like to know about me, all you have to do is ask." I would just have ignored her.

@HankHill, when people form beliefs, they reflect on past experiences and render conclusions.

If you have a handful of experiences, then your belief is formed by a handful.

If I have had 50+ experiences (with age) and hundreds of experiences (with other matters), then my belief is formed by the totality of those numbers.

What I can unequivocally state to you is a women who is highly attracted to a man will not dismiss a man for 2 inches or 4 years as the "white lie." Nor does it have to do with her self-esteem.

 

[EyeBRollin]

Like I mentioned, if they have your phone number, they can look you up on google and get your full name, age, city, and a lot of other data for free. It's pretty crazy.

As for your responses, they are entertaining and I can think of a lot more like "How old are you?" "How old do you look without your makeup on?" But I can't imagine this would ever result in a girl wanting to continue a date with you. So again, net-net, you lie about your age and she finds out, she's over it. Saying those things is at best, a parting jab in attempt to get them to see their hypocrisy but I don't think it will ever work.

Honestly, I think you’re better off listing your age as 35 and just lie when asked. People believe lies when they want to. That’s the moral of the story. If she likes you, she’ll overlook your white lie.

Let us know how it works for you!

 

[HankHill]

She replied, "The age isn't an issue for me at all, but I just didn't even think that you could change your age on the app since it pulls your birthday from FB so this has really weirded me out. I think I should spend tonight packing for me trip instead of hanging out. Take care." I said, "Sounds like a good plan to me! Take care." Never heard from her again.

Another good one...most women really don't care about your age or height even if they'd rather date someone taller or younger. They're willing to overlook it, just like we'd prefer to date a 10/10 but will be just fine with a 7-8/10 but then you go lie about it and effectively lie her out of your life when she'd been ok if you didn't. It's the same thing that you guys are saying if she has enough interest she'll overlook something but now you tried to lie and cover it up and if she figures it out you're a liar and not a confident man. Confidence is attractive but you just showed you're insecure.

Moral of the story is...lie if you're looking for a lay. If you want a meaningful relationship don't.