Why do all dating coaches/books omit the #1 key to dating success?

[mrgoodstuff]

It depends on your standards and how hard you want to work. A guy like Jose is paying a big penalty for not being tall or white. There's nothing to say he couldn't get laid though.

If he swipes for a few weeks he'd get a few average chicks that want him and maybe even a cute one. But he'd have to swipe a lot and message a lot to get there.

If you want to know which guys are getting laid with hot girls on tinder without putting hours and hours of work into it, I've told you that.

Most guys who get laid off tinder do it once or twice with a chubby or fat chick. You generally need to date down 2-3 points to have any chance on a service like that.

So a starving man that's in the desert should just keep pushing forward till he gets to a Brazilian steakhouse or should he eat what he can?

 

[bigdave17]

Mate your competition is made of those able to provide more than you do, its not those around you at your own level.

We're talking about general public and percentages. Your idea of a top 10% male or a "chad" isn't top 10%, it's the super elite of the super elite. You're basically telling me the top 15% of women are all going for the top 0.01% of men. The math here is completely possible

In real life, I've gotten comparisons to

Mario Lopez
Ricky Martin
Ronnie from Jersey shore (who is a decent looking guy except for his chubby face, I have a pretty lean angular face in real life)

keep in mind I look much much better in real life than pics

 

[JonnyX]

yes you did. You said that was an example of a top 10% male, when it's a top 0.001% male of the general public



that's like saying if I go to yacht clubs, I can find 10% of men there who make 800K

it doesn't change that the percentage of people making 800K is still 0.3%. We're talking about general public. Walk outside your house, you'll have to encounter about a 1000 guys to find anybody who looks anything like that pic you posted

Think about it from a woman's perspective. Tinder is already selectively showing her the best looking guys and suppressing the ugly ones. And most ugly guys know not to go on Tinder in the first place.

So to get a top 3% guy she only has to swipe through 10-20 lesser guys to find him. To find a top 1% guy she only has to swipe through 20-30 guys to find him. If she swipes through 50 guys a day for a week she can easily find a top 0.1% guy.

It's not that hard for them anymore.

 

[bigdave17]

Think about it from a woman's perspective. Tinder is already selectively showing her the best looking guys and suppressing the ugly ones. So to get a top 3% guy she only has to swipes through 10-20 lesser guys to find him. To fine a top 1% guy she only has to swipe through 20-30 guys to find him. If she swipes through 50 guys a day for a week she can easily find a top 0.1% guy.

It's not that hard for them anymore.

so the top 15% of women are all dating the same top 0.1% guy?

Do you understand how difficult the math here is?

Tinder is fukking garbage anyways. I'm gonna mostly focus on match, eharmony and other more serious sites

 

[JonnyX]

so the top 15% of women are all dating the same top 0.1% guy?

Do you understand how difficult the math here is?

Tinder is fukking garbage anyways. I'm gonna mostly focus on match, eharmony and other more serious sites

Most girls only have 4-6 sexual partners in their lifetime according to social surveys.

So most girls will only casually **** one or two guys in their entire life.

This is based on averages of course. A small percent of women will also have 20+ partners in their lives.

So when a girl IS going to have a casual sex partner she will tend to be very picky, and generally she will select a 7+/10 white guy.

A 4/10 fat girl will not have that option though and may **** a 5/10 guy. Women in general are dating up by 1-3 points. Average guys can still get laid but only very rarely with very subpar girls.

 

[bigdave17]

BTW are we all talking about white women only here?

I'm not interested in white women, unless they have dark South European/Southeastern European features. I'm mostly gonna go after Latinas, middle eastern chicks, light skin blacks, etc...

 

[Who Dares Win]

We're talking about general public and percentages. Your idea of a top 10% male or a "chad" isn't top 10%, it's the super elite of the super elite. You're basically telling me the top 15% of women are all going for the top 0.01% of men. The math here is completely possible

In real life, I've gotten comparisons to

Mario Lopez
Ricky Martin
Ronnie from Jersey shore (who is a decent looking guy except for his chubby face, I have a pretty lean angular face in real life)

keep in mind I look much much better in real life than pics

I once meet a friend of a friend who was an african refugee, he was not particularly muscular nor particularly good looking yet we told him he looks like will smith just to be nice to him.

Unless the compliment is follown by a date, it means **** nowadays and if its man doing it, there could be a change you look problematic and people try to keep you happy for you not going ape.

Your social skills are much lower than what they should anyway, in this current world its not "confidence" the right tool but looks and social skills.

If you believe you're a top 10% upload your pic on tinder and see how many matches you get...a top 10% will get nothing less than 5 daily.

 

[bigdave17]

If you believe you're a top 10% upload your pic on tinder and see how many matches you get...a top 10% will get nothing less than 5 daily.

not according to what Jonny X is saying. That Spanish dude is top 1% of men in terms of looks - he's got a great face, great hair, very lean and great physique and he's apparently getting nothing on tinder

this is all so bizarre

and I look fukking horrific in pics

 

[JonnyX]

not according to what Jonny X is saying. That Spanish dude is top 1% of men in terms of looks - he's got a great face, great hair, very lean and great physique and he's apparently getting nothing on tinder

this is all so bizarre

and I look fukking horrific in pics

You can believe me or not. But enough people have done enough Tinder experiments to make it clear.

It's because he's not white. Being nonwhite cuts your Tinder matches by at least 1/3rd.

This guy (who is 5'5", skinnyfat as ****, posing in a homeless shelter, and mildly balding) gets more matches per day than the ripped and well dressed Spanish dude:



In less than 18 hours he had 3 matches and 3 more likes (6 girls total).



People have used Asian male models against white male models also and found roughly 1/3rd to 1/4 the success rate.

Or another way to put it is, women on Tinder subtract 2-3 looks points if you're nonwhite. So even if the latin guy is a 7+/10 for a latino, he only does as well or worse as a 4-5/10 white guy.

 

[bigdave17]

You can believe me or not. But enough people have done enough Tinder experiments to make it clear.

It's because he's not white. Being nonwhite cuts your Tinder matches by at least 1/3rd.

This guy (who is 5'5", skinnyfat as ****, posing in a homeless shelter, and mildly balding) gets more matches per day than the ripped and well dressed Spanish dude:

View attachment 1506

In less than 18 hours he had 3 matches and 3 more likes (6 girls total).

View attachment 1507

People have used Asian male models against white male models also and found roughly 1/3rd to 1/4 the success rate.

Or another way to put it is, women on Tinder subtract 2-3 looks points if you're nonwhite. So even if the latin guy is a 7+/10 for a latino, he only does as well or worse as a 4-5/10 white guy.

is it mostly white broads on tinder? If so I can see why they prefer the white guy over the Spanish dude


but keep in mind if I do online dating, I'm mostly looking for ethnic women (Spanish, middle eastern, etc) which I'm sure that Spanish dude would dominate with on match and other sites. Even with that being said, I still get tons of white women who like me in real life so that disparity still shocking

 

[JonnyX]

is it mostly white broads on tinder? If so I can see why they prefer the white guy over the Spanish dude

but keep in mind if I do online dating, I'm mostly looking for ethnic women (Spanish, middle eastern, etc) which I'm sure that Spanish dude would dominate with on match and other sites. Even with that being said, I still get tons of white women who like me in real life so that disparity still shocking

Nope. I keep telling you that's not the issue. You'll see when you make your accounts. Nothing left to ask or talk about from my perspective. Just do it and see for yourself.

 

[bigdave17]

Nope. I keep telling you that's not the issue. You'll see when you make your accounts. Nothing left to ask or talk about from my perspective. Just do it and see for yourself.

Ethnic women do not prefer white guys over their own. You're just a self hating ethnic dude if you actually think that


The vast majority of hot arab, asian, black and spanish women are with men of their own race

 

[JonnyX]

Ethnic women do not prefer white guys over their own. You're just a self hating ethnic dude if you actually think that


The vast majority of hot arab, asian, black and spanish women are with men of their own race

You react to everything emotionally. Are you a generally emotionally stable guy or not?

I don't know why you would think it makes me "self hating". The fact that I've read research on what women like or don't like and it suggests they prefer white men in no way impacts what I think of my own race.

Asian women rate white men as higher attractiveness than they do Asian men.

These are some of the early data points from OKCupid:

You can see Asian women rate white men much higher than Asian men. This is why getting Asian girls is like shooting fish in a bucket for any white guy. Asian women almost worship white guys.

Latinas treat white men and latino guys equally. Black women prefer black men, but consider white men second. White women greatly prefer white men as well.

So white guys perform very highly across the board with net positive results relative to other men for all races except black women, where they get neutral treatment.

The trends over time are shown here, but they're pretty consistent with that - very little has changed over time since:
https://theblog.okcupid.com/race-and-attraction-2009-2014-107dcbb4f060

Here is also the old reply rate by race data they used to have:

Again, white guys do the best overall (50% more replies overall compared to an Indian man).

Notably, as I am Indian, you can see that Indian men actually have the lowest reply rate from Indian women, which has been my experience as well. Most of my matches/likes I get from any online service tend to be non-Indian girls. I don't do any better with Indian girls than any other type of girl.

This is making judgments based on hard data, not emotions.

There is no hard data on Tinder, because Tinder doesn't share their stats. But from my experience and seeing many people run their own informal Tinder experiments, the racial bias in favor of white men is much stronger there than anywhere else.

Here for example was one informal Tinder experiment of Asian guys against white guys:

https://nextshark.com/tinder-racist-experiment-reveals-challenges-dating-asian-man/

You can see clearly the white guys got >10x more messages than the Asian guys. And a professional Asian male model only gets a 1.54% match rate overall with 4 messages out of 5000 swipes. ie. 77 matches for 5000 swipes. This is likely then the ceiling for an Asian man on Tinder.

 

[bigdave17]

You react to everything emotionally. Are you a generally emotionally stable guy or not?

I don't know why you would think it makes me "self hating". The fact that I've read research on what women like or don't like and it suggests they prefer white men in no way impacts what I think of my own race.

Asian women rate white men as higher attractiveness than they do Asian men.

These are some of the early data points from OKCupid:

You can see Asian women rate white men much higher than Asian men. This is why getting Asian girls is like shooting fish in a bucket for any white guy. Asian women almost worship white guys.

Latinas treat white men and latino guys equally. Black women prefer black men, but consider white men second. White women greatly prefer white men as well.

So white guys perform very highly across the board with net positive results relative to other men for all races except black women, where they get neutral treatment.

The trends over time are shown here, but they're pretty consistent with that - very little has changed over time since:
https://theblog.okcupid.com/race-and-attraction-2009-2014-107dcbb4f060

Here is also the old reply rate by race data they used to have:

Again, white guys do the best overall (50% more replies overall compared to an Indian man).

Notably, as I am Indian, you can see that Indian men actually have the lowest reply rate from Indian women, which has been my experience as well. Most of my matches/likes I get from any online service tend to be non-Indian girls. I don't do any better with Indian girls than any other type of girl.

This is making judgments based on hard data, not emotions.

There is no hard data on Tinder, because Tinder doesn't share their stats. But from my experience and seeing many people run their own informal Tinder experiments, the racial bias in favor of white men is much stronger there than anywhere else.

Here for example was one informal Tinder experiment of Asian guys against white guys:

https://nextshark.com/tinder-racist-experiment-reveals-challenges-dating-asian-man/

You can see clearly the white guys got >10x more messages than the Asian guys. And a professional Asian male model only gets a 1.54% match rate overall with 4 messages out of 5000 swipes. ie. 77 matches for 5000 swipes. This is likely then the ceiling for an Asian man on Tinder.

very interesting stuff

I'm not asian or indian so I don't really care about their reality. I'm middle eastern but look more Hispanic and looks like Hispanic and middle eastern guys do fine with online dating.

BTW tinder is complete garbage, I think you're paying way too much attention to it. The other research is a lot more valuable

 

[DEEZEDBRAH]

If you were any close to the top 10% you wouldnt be spamming this board about how to get chick or being unable to get chick despite your attempt.

A top 10% basically has girls doing all the work for him and purposely pretend they dont see or hear his mistakes, basically the opposite of the average guy who get ghosted cause he fails a joke.

+1

A lot of delusional guys.

The variant between incel and Chad is the majority of men. Myself in that category as well. At thirty, the emphasis is on creating lifestyle but, with respect to women, the game is top form SMV. I don't want cratered SMV vag. Accidentally on purpose pregnancy.

No live in gf or wife. Not in the mood means #nextset.

I saw a pretty telling YouTube video recently.

If I find it, I'll link it.

Cliff notes:

Women 6-8 are cratering SMV as Chad's booty call.

Men 6-8 are then expected to clean up the mess and keep society orderly by raising Chad's baby. Playing house with cratered SMV. Only cucks play that game.

The silver lining being, new giros are turning 18/19/20/21 EVERYDAY.

The pursuit is Excellency. Sure, go get baee but, I am living at my edge. Women and world are of secondary importance.

I've been at pickup for years. The patterns and sequence of events are telling. Its redundant.

Adaptive behavior follows cratered SMV. Its when women want to play house. Its baby rabies. Its the Good girl shtick. No doubt, her ass is in cyberspace revenge porn.

Chad's proteins are doing the backstroke in her anal cavity and digestive tract. Not in the mood for her husband.

Its game over fellas. If you are seeking to play house, you are in for a surprise. The path is youth or to not want.

 

[DEEZEDBRAH]

stop posting on message boards and leave your house

the vast VAST majority of men are

- chubby
- dress horrible
- have no muscle mass
- have mediocre bone structure in the face


any guy who puts in some effort towards looking good can easily be in top 20 or 10% of men

the online idea of a "Chad" - a perfect looking white male is unbelievably rare, maybe 1 in 1000

You sound new.

Most men workout. Most women are bulking. Many are slipping from top form after 23. Regardless, cucks are chasing and proposing. Women dispose. Men propose.

 

[Mike32ct]

LMFAO @ chads being top 20% of men


You guys are fukking drunk if you think the top 20% of men are chads. The online idea of a chad - tall, athletic, extraordinarily handsome, white male, with perfect hairline and 9% bodyfat is top 1% of men...if that - probably like 0.5% of men. It's like thinking top 20% of people earn 500K a year when it's really like 0.3%

I'm only 5'10, I'm ethnic, I have an NW2 hairline and I'm about a 7-8/10 in the face.. basically nowhere near a chad and I'm probably still top 10% of men, maybe top 5%

go in the general public. See how often you see very handsome, very muscular, very lean, tall, perfect looking men. It's very very very very rare

To be fair, top 20 percenters aren’t ALL Chads. Some Chad-lites are in that mix too.

 

[bigdave17]

To be fair, top 20 percenters aren’t ALL Chads. Some Chad-lites are in that mix too.

chads are top 0.5% of men
Chad lites are maybe 1% or 2% if even that.

go leave your house and see often you see muscular, lean, male model perfect looking men in general public. Its shockingly rare

 

[mrgoodstuff]

chads are top 0.5% of men
Chad lites are maybe 1% or 2% if even that.

go leave your house and see often you see muscular, lean, male model perfect looking men in general public. Its shockingly rare

Normally their fans are 6-7's. A fine chick will compete with him for the fineness . A 6-7 will WORSHIP him.

 

[Mike32ct]

chads are top 0.5% of men
Chad lites are maybe 1% or 2% if even that.

go leave your house and see often you see muscular, lean, male model perfect looking men in general public. Its shockingly rare

I agree that the male model types are rare. No question.

Where we disagree is the minimum threshold of what constitutes a Chad. We’ll agree to disagree on that.