Why do all dating coaches/books omit the #1 key to dating success?

[bigdave17]

putting yourself out there over and over and over again and understanding that rejection is a huge part of the game


are they too scared to lose potential subscribers that they want to feed them this pile of bullsh*t that you can get any girl you want once you get to a certain level?

 

[JonnyX]

The biggest barrier to getting girls for most guys is the opener. Most girls will reject you right from the minute you open your mouth. They look at you before they even consider your words or body language and say "Naaa, not good enough". Unless you are very good looking this will be reality.

One of the biggest lessons I learned when I spent a year or two doing dedicated cold approach in clubs (hundreds to thousands of girls) is that there is no technique that can change the rate at which this happens.

Picking up girls is at least for me rate-limited by appearance and a lack of immediate physical attraction. Surgeries have been the only things in my life that have improved my response rates.

PUAs like to pretend that pick up is a skill you can keep improving at until you can become so good you can pick up any girl anywhere anytime if you just know the right thing to say and say it exactly the right way.

But thats a blatant falsehood. No matter how much experience you have you will always start from ground zero with each new girl. She doesn't "review your experience" before deciding whether to give you a chance. And in many cases there is absolutely nothing you can say that will meaningfully change her first opinion of you.

So basically, I agree with you. Rejection will always be a very large part of it. And unless you were making some really dumb rookie error at the start that can easily be corrected, your rejection rate will not likely change much over time. In my experience, rejection rates are set by pretty hard factors that are hard to change over time.

This doesnt sell books or programs though. They need the lie that its something everyone can continually get better at until youre a 4/10 that's banging 9s with no effort. That's what guys want to believe is possible.

 

[IKO69]

putting yourself out there over and over and over again and understanding that rejection is a huge part of the game


are they too scared to lose potential subscribers that they want to feed them this pile of bullsh*t that you can get any girl you want once you get to a certain level?

Because then the game will be over and they will lose customers.

That's the harsh reality of the game - it's mostly of being in the right place at the right time. If you are talking to the right woman you can say the lamest, dorkiest ****ing thing in the world and she'll laugh it off and think you are so funny.

 

[JonnyX]

I think maybe you're just a little naive and don't really understand how marketing works. Do you watch beer commercials and assume that drinking beer is going to get you hot chicks too?

Ninety-nine percent of people who look into it don't assume it is some magic trick. They just want to do better than they are currently doing, and putting yourself out there will do that

Well yes. I was once very idealistic and believed it was a skill like any other that you could perfect. If you want to be a world class guitarist you can put 5-8 hours in a day and most people will become very good over time to the level of being able to play most common songs on stage seamlessly.

Most things in my life i had been able to practice similarly and learn to a high level. So when PUAs said "getting girls is just a skill too!" or "the more you practice the better you get" or "girls dont care as much about looks - they care about confidence and game" I believed them. I wanted to believe them.

This was before online dating was big. Online dating has demolished most of this by proving any bozo with zero pick up skill can easily get numbers and sex offers solely by changing his profile picture to a better looking guy.

But before that was possible, it was harder to get good data on this sort of thing or prove that was all it really takes.

 

[bigdave17]

Well yes. I was once very idealistic and believed it was a skill like any other that you could perfect. If you want to be a world class guitarist you can put 5-8 hours in a day and most people will become very good over time to the level of being able to play most common songs on stage seamlessly.

Most things in my life i had been able to practice similarly and learn to a high level. So when PUAs said "getting girls is just a skill too!" or "the more you practice the better you get" or "girls dont care as much about looks - they care about confidence and game" I believed them. I wanted to believe them.

This was before online dating was big. Online dating has demolished most of this by proving any bozo with zero pick up skill can easily get numbers and sex offers solely by changing his profile picture to a better looking guy.

But before that was possible, it was harder to get good data on this sort of thing or prove that was all it really takes.

I'm around a 7-8/10 in real life standards with phenomenal "presentation" (very athletic physique, great grooming and fashion) and I've never slept with a woman in my league

Dating isn't super easy for good looking men either

 

[DEEZEDBRAH]

putting yourself out there over and over and over again and understanding that rejection is a huge part of the game


are they too scared to lose potential subscribers that they want to feed them this pile of bullsh*t that you can get any girl you want once you get to a certain level?

Its common sense as it is in sales. Unless low functioning autistic, it is Lett unsaid since only a retard wouldn't fathom the obvious.

Its more nuanced points that are more unclear and pickup typically avoids mentioning the following. Its harder to digest point being the Pareto distribution. What the ree pill refers to as 80:20.

If you had a hundred men and women on a deserted island, the top twenty men would **** 80% of the women.

Due to Elliot Rogers, the most recent mini van incident, the incel predicament has come to light. Its apparent that the Chad's are the top twenty percentile of man. The incel being the bottom of the Pareto distribution.

What much of the red pill and pickup is the variant between Chad's and incels. IMHO, I would guess men between SMV 6-8. Its like, wtf do these men have to be put off by? They're not the best but far from the worst.

The disenchantment comes by acknowledging that you were as Chris Rock says, "not her first choice." So, her youth is Chad's booty call. Pursuit of chads, the 9 & 10s, children out of wedlock, and cratered SMV. Its declining SMV or plummeted SMV, the sort of feedback loop in the form of Chad's not returning her call nearing or hitting thirty. Its now baby fever. Good girl shtick to rope in captain beta.



Op, how much pickup BCs are sold when you are told, years of your life, countless years, and money spent on:

1. Plummeted SMV
2. Cratered SMV
3. Raising Chad's baby

 

[bigdave17]

What is the value of a car?

Your opinion of the car's value?

Or

The price at which you can sell the car?

me being a 7-8/10 isn't my opinion. It's me getting complimented 8 times a week by random strangers

 

[bigdave17]

Its common sense as it is in sales. Unless low functioning autistic, it is Lett unsaid since only a retard wouldn't fathom the obvious.

Its more nuanced points that are more unclear and pickup typically avoids mentioning the following. Its harder to digest point being the Pareto distribution. What the ree pill refers to as 80:20.

If you had a hundred men and women on a deserted island, the top twenty men would **** 80% of the women.

Due to Elliot Rogers, the most recent mini van incident, the incel predicament has come to light. Its apparent that the Chad's are the top twenty percentile of man. The incel being the bottom of the Pareto distribution.

What much of the red pill and pickup is the variant between Chad's and incels. IMHO, I would guess men between SMV 6-8. Its like, wtf do these men have to be put off by? They're not the best but far from the worst.

The disenchantment comes by acknowledging that you were as Chris Rock says, "not her first choice." So, her youth is Chad's booty call. Pursuit of chads, the 9 & 10s, children out of wedlock, and cratered SMV. Its declining SMV or plummeted SMV, the sort of feedback loop in the form of Chad's not returning her call nearing or hitting thirty. Its now baby fever. Good girl shtick to rope in captain beta.



Op, how much pickup BCs are sold when you are told, years of your life, countless years, and money spent on:

1. Plummeted SMV
2. Cratered SMV
3. Raising Chad's baby

LMFAO @ chads being top 20% of men


You guys are fukking drunk if you think the top 20% of men are chads. The online idea of a chad - tall, athletic, extraordinarily handsome, white male, with perfect hairline and 9% bodyfat is top 1% of men...if that - probably like 0.5% of men. It's like thinking top 20% of people earn 500K a year when it's really like 0.3%

I'm only 5'10, I'm ethnic, I have an NW2 hairline and I'm about a 7-8/10 in the face.. basically nowhere near a chad and I'm probably still top 10% of men, maybe top 5%

go in the general public. See how often you see very handsome, very muscular, very lean, tall, perfect looking men. It's very very very very rare

 

[bigdave17]

They're sleeping with you?

A lot of them would love to sleep with me/date me, others are unbiased outside observers

 

[DEEZEDBRAH]

I'm around a 7-8/10 in real life standards with phenomenal "presentation" (very athletic physique, great grooming and fashion) and I've never slept with a woman in my league

Dating isn't super easy for good looking men either

You're delusional. Its irrelevant being slightly above average. Women want better and bigger. Female hypergamy is limitless.

You nor I are 15/10s. This is female expectations and e standard for your average 6. Its about the Pareto distribution as I stated.

The pursuit is excellence. Not women. Women are a by product. Its not love nor forever.

A man is better off pursuing what he loves (outside women), what resonates, and creating a life beyond women and world. Obviously, go get baee but, if not on top form, I am not interested.

There's a lot of hit and run material.

 

[DEEZEDBRAH]

LMFAO @ chads being top 20% of men


You guys are fukking drunk if you think the top 20% of men are chads. The online idea of a chad - tall, athletic, extraordinarily handsome, white male, with perfect hairline and 9% bodyfat is top 1% of men...if that - probably like 0.5% of men. It's like thinking top 20% of people earn 500K a year when it's really like 0.3%

I'm only 5'10, I'm ethnic, I have an NW2 hairline and I'm about a 7-8/10 in the face.. basically nowhere near a chad and I'm probably still top 10% of men, maybe top 5%

go in the general public. See how often you see very handsome, very muscular, very lean, tall, perfect looking men. It's very very very very rare

You simply aren't at the top or you wouldn't be posting here.

Women only date down once smv is squandered.

A lot of men would be better off with escorts and time dedicated to pursuits of their own endeavor.

Men don't pay for sex. They pay for her to leave.


Even more rare is a free thinking female on top form.

 

[Who Dares Win]

LMFAO @ chads being top 20% of men


You guys are fukking drunk if you think the top 20% of men are chads. The online idea of a chad - tall, athletic, extraordinarily handsome, white male, with perfect hairline and 9% bodyfat is top 1% of men...if that - probably like 0.5% of men. It's like thinking top 20% of people earn 500K a year when it's really like 0.3%

I'm only 5'10, I'm ethnic, I have an NW2 hairline and I'm about a 7-8/10 in the face.. basically nowhere near a chad and I'm probably still top 10% of men, maybe top 5%

go in the general public. See how often you see very handsome, very muscular, very lean, tall, perfect looking men. It's very very very very rare

If you were any close to the top 10% you wouldnt be spamming this board about how to get chick or being unable to get chick despite your attempt.

A top 10% basically has girls doing all the work for him and purposely pretend they dont see or hear his mistakes, basically the opposite of the average guy who get ghosted cause he fails a joke.

 

[bigdave17]

If you were any close to the top 10% you wouldnt be spamming this board about how to get chick or being unable to get chick despite your attempt.

A top 10% basically has girls doing all the work for him and purposely pretend they dont see or hear his mistakes, basically the opposite of the average guy who get ghosted cause he fails a joke.

stop posting on message boards and leave your house

the vast VAST majority of men are

- chubby
- dress horrible
- have no muscle mass
- have mediocre bone structure in the face


any guy who puts in some effort towards looking good can easily be in top 20 or 10% of men

the online idea of a "Chad" - a perfect looking white male is unbelievably rare, maybe 1 in 1000

 

[JonnyX]

What is the value of a car?

Your opinion of the car's value?

Or

The price at which you can sell the car?

This. I'm skeptical Dave that you're as good looking as you claim to be, if we are judging BY WOMEN'S STANDARDS. I don't mean to sound harsh, but it would be factually correct to describe you as a 29 year old 5'10" balding middle eastern man. Even if you're perfect in every other way those are going to limit you from being 8-9/10.

This is what women consider a 9+/10:

If you're a truly highly physically attractive man, it's very easy to test. Just make a Tinder account and get swiping. Top tier attractive men will get 10-20+ matches a day. Doing it that way eliminates any contention over whether your personality is the issue.

If you get a sh|tload of matches, then you perhaps are as attractive as you believe, and your game/personality is just bad. If you don't get that level of matches you are not as good looking as you think (again, by women's standards).

Don't underestimate women's physical standards these days. This guy:

Only gets 1-3 matches on Tinder in 24 hours and they're mostly fat/gross:

Skip to 14:05 to see his final 3 matches using his modeling pictures. When he used a more casual picture earlier in the video he only got one fat match.

The criteria women are using in 2018 to judge male attractiveness are very restrictive, consistent, and aggressive. Just the three features I listed about you above already represent 3 major "strikes" against you. Do I think they should be strikes? Hell no.

I also think a guy as ripped as Jose above with a decent face and nice manicuring should do well. But it's not up to me. I don't set the price of the car, as Raiders says, and neither do you.

 

[Who Dares Win]

stop posting on message boards and leave your house

the vast VAST majority of men are

- chubby
- dress horrible
- have no muscle mass
- have mediocre bone structure in the face


any guy who puts in some effort towards looking good can easily be in top 20 or 10% of men

the online idea of a "Chad" - a perfect looking white male is unbelievably rare, maybe 1 in 1000

Not sure where you live but you're wrong, I remember your picture when you uploaded it cause you remind me of an armenian taxi driver clearly not a top 10%.

Your face, your body proportions and your body language puts you nowhere close to a top 10%.

Not saying that to bash you, I'm an average guy just like you except that I dont look like an armenian taxi driver thankfully.

If you are wondering what a top 10% looks like:

 

[bigdave17]

If you are wondering what a top 10% looks like:

if you walk outside your house, 1 in 10 men in general public look like this??

are you fukking drunk?

I don't even think 1 in 1,000 men look anything like that. Maybe 1 in 2,000

you guys are so deluded from reality, its unreal

 

[JonnyX]

the online idea of a "Chad" - a perfect looking white male is unbelievably rare, maybe 1 in 1000

That's absolutely true. I encounter one at work maybe once every few weeks or once a month or so. They are not common at all.

Part of the problem is that online dating and things like Tinder have allowed women to become exposed to these rare men in abnormal proportions.

Some points relating to why this is:

1) People are constantly making fake profiles with male models. I once saw an article that was "Top 20 hot guys on Tinder in ___(city)". It was a girl who screencapped all the hottest guys she encountered or matched to on Tinder. Half of them were pro male models that don't even live there! ie. Catfishes. But did she know that? No. She thought they were real matches for her.

2) Tinder algorithms show the most popular (ie. attractive) men to women more often. So they are heavily over represented in the guys girls are shown. Girls then think this is more "normal" than it really is.

3) Even before Tinder on OKCupid, women were found to deem 80% of men "below average". So even without Tinder skewing things further, women deem a top 20% man "JUST AVERAGE". This means to be deemed truly attractive, you need to be top 10% or better which 90% of us by definition can't do.

Online dating is facilitating and enhancing hypergamy to extraordinary levels. It's basically encouraging a return to harems or lion pride animalistic mating strategies, where the females all circle around the top alpha and wait their turn, and the betas hang at the outskirts hoping to get lucky when a female strays off.

So it doesn't matter how rare that "ideal guy" is. What matters is how rare women PERCEIVE him to be, and how accessible they believe him to be. If they see him as more common than he really is or more available to them than he really is, then their standards go up. "Oohhh look at this guy I matched to! He's so hot! Well if I can get him, why would I settle for less??" etc.

 

[JonnyX]

if you walk outside your house, 1 in 10 men in general public look like this??

are you fukking drunk?

I don't even think 1 in 1,000 men look anything like that. Maybe 1 in 2,000

you guys are so deluded from reality, its unreal

Agreed on your percentages there actually Dave. I would bet closer to 1/2000 or less. Most guys will never see their abs in their lives. But again, see my post above. That's not the issue. It's what women perceive that's the issue. Not the hard facts of how common these guys are or are not.

 

[bigdave17]

This. I'm skeptical Dave that you're as good looking as you claim to be, if we are judging BY WOMEN'S STANDARDS. I don't mean to sound harsh, but it would be factually correct to describe you as a 29 year old 5'10" balding middle eastern man. Even if you're perfect in every other way those are going to limit you from being 8-9/10.

This is what women consider a 9+/10:

If you're a truly highly physically attractive man, it's very easy to test. Just make a Tinder account and get swiping. Top tier attractive men will get 10-20+ matches a day. Doing it that way eliminates any contention over whether your personality is the issue.

If you get a sh|tload of matches, then you perhaps are as attractive as you believe, and your game/personality is just bad. If you don't get that level of matches you are not as good looking as you think (again, by women's standards).

Don't underestimate women's physical standards these days. This guy:

Only gets 1-3 matches on Tinder in 24 hours and they're mostly fat/gross:

Skip to 14:05 to see his final 3 matches using his modeling pictures. When he used a more casual picture earlier in the video he only got one fat match.

The criteria women are using in 2018 to judge male attractiveness are very restrictive, consistent, and aggressive. Just the three features I listed about you above already represent 3 major "strikes" against you. Do I think they should be strikes? Hell no.

I also think a guy as ripped as Jose above with a decent face and nice manicuring should do well. But it's not up to me. I don't set the price of the car, as Raiders says, and neither do you.

both the Spanish and the white guy are top 1% of male general public, maybe top 0.5%

i haven't done online dating. Maybe women really are that picky, i don't know

 

[bigdave17]

Agreed on your percentages there actually Dave. I would bet closer to 1/2000 or less. Most guys will never see their abs in their lives. But again, see my post above. That's not the issue. It's what women perceive that's the issue. Not the hard facts of how common these guys are or are not.

6 foot+ = top 25% of men
male model facial aesthetics = top 5% of men
being lean and muscular = top 1% of men


combine the 3 and the online idea of a chad is unbelievably rare