Do Good Looking Men Need to Play Mind Games?

[guru1000]

No man needs to play mind games.

Every man has his challenges, whereas average-looking men pursue 7s and 8s, and good-looking men pursue 9s and 10s; regardless, each man needs a set of effective social tools to dominate his "game," but none of these social tools include willful "mind games."

 

[marmel75]

No men need to play mind games.

 

[malz1]

so how exactly is game bs if literally a big part of game tells guys to get in shape and sharpen their social skills?

The issue isn't that "game" is bs but that many ideas by it are weak assertions founded on weak logic that ends up driving ppl in endless circles. There's a reason why so many intelligent people study game and endlessly go out for years only to end up with no results. The information circulating is mostly crap, out of context, and just sounds good. And the few ideas that help only do so to an extent.

No one has the precise answer, at least in the mainstream. Good-energy conversations, cool personality, deep rapport, witty humor, that touching story about your grandma passing away..it all amounts to nothing most of the time. Alpha body language? Ha!

If you're the right guy, girls will try to rapidly win you over. The boyfriend is with them? Doesnt matter, they're ready to monkey branch and bang you when the opportunity arises. You can see it in their thirsty eyes and obvious advances. Comfort her? Who needs that when she's already grabbing you. The friends are obstacles? Lmao. Her group of friends will try to hook you up with her the moment the first couple words come out of your mouth, if they havent decided to just stay quiet the whole time. Doesnt matter if it's 1 friend or 8 friends. None of this "befriend the friends and isolate her" stuff. The "need" for game just disappears and the requirements taught become apparently unneeded.

 

[malz1]

then you have and have always had a very limited understanding of game.

theres tons of guys out there that lack any real social skills. many have serious self esteem issues despite being good looking, decent guys. a lot of the stuff that may seem like common sense is simply not a part of who these people are...yet.

what you say about status isnt wrong, but its not the right answer either.

most of us are not gonna be famous celebrities, and famous celebrities are constantly being taken to the cleaners by the same women that throw themselves at them. a girl wanting to bang you for status does not equate to a girl being genuinely sexually and emotionally attracted to you. the message you are sending is status is all that matters which is false. yes, women will want to sleep with you but for reasons other than being legitimately interested in YOU.

not only is it false to believe that "if xyz celebrity walked in the room, your gf is gone" its also a terrible, self-defeatist mentality to live with

status is also a contextual concept.

if you dont have looks, or money, you should def have game. and game = status.

canned routines and cookie cutter scenarios are not the end all, but its a good starting point for a lot of the guys who have no real experience trying to talk to a girl theyre interested in. that is, until they learn more about themselves and what works and doesnt work for them. game is a process of self discovery. not a fraudulent representation of ones self. and its never ending.

what you, game deniers and afcs have in common is a misinterpretation and/or a subjective redefinition of game. you are touting what you perceive as your best qualities and presenting them as virtue the. same way an afc will try to justify being a provider by claiming "women only care about money anyway so just make money" or a guy that hits the weights says "just get jacked bro, thats all that matters"

C'mon man, I never denied game. I said that many of the game concepts in circulation are bs. Not all. I used status because it's such a significant factor which allows those who have it to see the advice out there to be contradictory as requirements. Not as a sole factor. I even mentioned that the advice out there is out of context because I know that some things that apply to me wont apply to others.

No one is saying that routines have no functional value, but that for those that use them as their main tool thinking them as necessary or something that will get them closer to the lay are being naive.

Self-discovery? Not a fraudulent representation of oneself? I think you're romanticising the idea of game. I understood it as something to enable those certain conditions that gets the woman. Not some form of integrity, though if you're referring to status as something fake... I don't see the connection. Status isnt something exclusive to celebrities. It could just be some dude with a nice job among a small group of friends. Or a manager of a retail store. Etc. Then again maybe you weren't speaking on status in this "fake" regard though. Especially since you said you def need game, and game = status

I do disagree with your idea of women sleeping with someone for reasons other than the status that led them on. Why not? Why are they so turned on by high status guys so quickly? What benefit do they get when the guy has little money? Or bang him in secret? It seems they're emotionally, primally driven when I witness them man.

With that said, game doesnt equal status. Else status would equal game. Maybe you just meant game gives you status? If the former, this would be admitting the significance or important role of status. Either way you seem to acknowledge it.

For funzies: if game = status and status is a "contexual concept", then game is a contextual concept. Therefore your treatment of "game" as an objective concept has been debunked by your own post.

Not to be hard on you man, but from the assumptions, misinterpretations, and inconsistencies made all throughout your post, you only exemplified the problems of fake information circulating about.

 

[fastlife]

@jaymbrs A social circle is like a Status Bank. You invest in those relationship--all your good qualities, all the cool sh1t you ever did, whether you're successful with girls or not, etc.--and the group reinvests those good or bad qualities in any new relationships you form within the context of that group. Game is just Attraction x Comfort. So a good social circle can present your attractive qualities, while also conveying that you're a safe person that other people like.

Also, status is context dependent--so if you're high status within that group, any newcomers to that group will appraise you according to that status. So social circles can make life really, really easy--all of the work is done for you & all you have to do is escalate. Why bother learning how to convey Attraction & Comfort on your own?

Well, any given Social Circle eventually ages out & eventually quits paying interest. Everyone gets older; friends of girlfriends get older; people get jobs; people quit going out; people settle & get complacent, etc. So even if those friendships still give you value, they quit providing quality mating opportunities. Also, social circles require time and investment--and it's very hard to juggle more than 2 or 3. However, Game allows you to create status on the fly, in any number of groups.

Good looks is a DHV--so they can get your foot in the door and you can get some freebies (what you would interpret as not having to play mind games). BUT you also have to look at what kind of relationship you want and how to convey those expectations. Since you're good looking (and a girl can gain a lot of status by being able to post couples pics on social media w/ a good looking dude), then you pretty much start out in a default boyfriend frame if you're also nice and overly available. At that point, it's much harder to flip the script and become just the sex guy--which can lead to a lot of buyer's remorse, resentment, push back, etc. I find it's far better to come in from a player frame. How do you do that? Well, you imply competition...by doing things like not always texting her back right away, talking to her upfront about other girls you're seeing, disqualifying yourself as BF material by being a little bit aloof, maybe even being a bit of a jerk. If she accepts you on those terms, then it's much easier to let her earn more of your time & attention.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

then you have and have always had a very limited understanding of game.

theres tons of guys out there that lack any real social skills. many have serious self esteem issues despite being good looking, decent guys. a lot of the stuff that may seem like common sense is simply not a part of who these people are...yet.

what you say about status isnt wrong, but its not the right answer either.

most of us are not gonna be famous celebrities, and famous celebrities are constantly being taken to the cleaners by the same women that throw themselves at them. a girl wanting to bang you for status does not equate to a girl being genuinely sexually and emotionally attracted to you. the message you are sending is status is all that matters which is false. yes, women will want to sleep with you but for reasons other than being legitimately interested in YOU.

not only is it false to believe that "if xyz celebrity walked in the room, your gf is gone" its also a terrible, self-defeatist mentality to live with

status is also a contextual concept.

if you dont have looks, or money, you should def have game. and game = status.

canned routines and cookie cutter scenarios are not the end all, but its a good starting point for a lot of the guys who have no real experience trying to talk to a girl theyre interested in. that is, until they learn more about themselves and what works and doesnt work for them. game is a process of self discovery. not a fraudulent representation of ones self. and its never ending.

what you, game deniers and afcs have in common is a misinterpretation and/or a subjective redefinition of game. you are touting what you perceive as your best qualities and presenting them as virtue the. same way an afc will try to justify being a provider by claiming "women only care about money anyway so just make money" or a guy that hits the weights says "just get jacked bro, thats all that matters"

Status is a good predictor for "club girls" though. But I agree with you.

 

[malz1]

@MidnightCity

I'm 31 years old (and I'm just starting to feel it). I've been with 5x the women that the average beta-male will in his entire lifetime.

Randoms on the internet proclaiming that game doesn't exist, and explaining school disco game of a 14 year old amuses me greatly.

It should you too. You are taking it too serious.

No need to marginalize anyone debating ideas on here dude. Especially it being a forum for ideas. I would like to say it isn't cool to do so against people you simply disagree with, but I literally couldn't find anything you mentioned as having been implied by anyone here...

What on Earth are some of you guys reading in this thread?.. lol.

 

[captain55]

The way I look at it is if a woman finds you very attractive for ANY reason (usually good looks) you don't need to play mind games with her.

If this were the case, guys would never get friend zoned after the first or second date. If a woman goes out with you on a legit date she probably finds you good looking.

 

[malz1]

@deesade You are saying nothing substantial... The contention you provided was mostly irrelevant, incoherent nonsense meant to insult me I guess. I'm done with you. At least midnight tried..

@MidnightCity Midnight lol. I think many of your disagreements would clear away if only you would precisely read what I'd typed. Your interpretation of it is leading you to draw weird inferences of me saying something else man. And your description of game basically supported my definition of it bro. Though there is no consensual, precise definition of game anyways.

I recommend taking a linguistics course or a study on descriptive grammar with a semantics focus. If you really want to push yourself, take some lessons on critical thinking and throw in a logic system. Predicate logic is robust.

Not to be condescending man but I think your perspective on things will change after you've enhanced your analytics and gain more clarity. Think of this as bettering yourself. Think of it as game. (Smart-ass joke but serious)

 

[malz1]

glad we're done here

With deesade, yes. If you ever want to throw in new ideas or share experiences for building up new, rich perspectives then I'll totally be down. I'd love to tear down w/e erroneous belief systems that may be still lurking inside me and embrace the changes of new thought.

 

[guru1000]

In my experience, things like foundation-building and blending in, outside of knowing what offends her, is unnecessary if handsome. Just presence and middle-school level communication my man. Albeit the pool of attracted girls will grow when showing some substance of course but that's mainly to compensate for not being at a higher level of attractiveness.

As a personal issue, I used to have Very bad social anxiety, putting off unapproachable vibes. I wasnt aware of this so naturally I thought I needed game even though I was supposedly good looking. After getting the hint and feeling bad in general, I worked to manage my anxiety. All of a sudden the tables were flipped and ideas such as "alpha," "good personality," and "comm. structures" fell apart in the face of how blantantly easy things have become. The many theories and books of literature on game out there mostly seem silly to me now. At least from a certain perspective, that is. Very few game ideas are valid such as not being needy tho I cautiously associate the idea and others with game and more to do with not being a really awkward human being.

Game can backfire if you're attractive, depending on her level of insecurity. Being very attractive is already a threat to most of their egos if you don't show interest, hence, some "game" can be misconstrued as a sign of disinterest which incites her rejecting of herself.

Goes back to her "needs" and her perception of your meeting them. If your point of origin is perceived as (her) alpha by virtue of your looks, and she has a need for alpha incited by her alpha father whom she deeply respects, then you are fine along as you show interest. However, if she needs beta, as she respects not her alpha father but respects her alpha mother, and you originate as an alpha by virtue of your looks alone, you already start the interaction with a black eye, and thus, if you elect she's worth the effort, you must beta-ize her.

Most girls need balance of the alpha/beta. So contextually, if you hold an alpha appearance (e.g., good-looking, jacked), some beta is needed to open her up.

Know your audience to maximize success.

 

[zekko]

When I first started reading seduction material, the prevailing attitude was "Looks don't matter". And forums like this would not even allow you to discuss the subject. Conversely, it didn't seem like people were impressed when attractive guys were successful with women. What guys were after back then was identifying a set of behaviors that women would respond to, no matter what you looked like. A lot of guys thought that if an unattractive guy could be seen using these techniques successfully, then that proved that their system was successful. For example, Tyler from RSD was kind of fat in those days.

Over time, however, all that has changed, and most people will readily admit that looks are a big factor in SMV.

 

[jaymbrs]

Game can backfire if you're attractive, depending on her level of insecurity. Being very attractive is already a threat to most of their egos if you don't show interest, hence, some "game" can be misconstrued as a sign of disinterest which incites her rejecting of herself.

Goes back to her "needs" and her perception of your meeting them. If your point of origin is perceived as (her) alpha by virtue of your looks, and she has a need for alpha incited by her alpha father whom she deeply respects, then you are fine along as you show interest. However, if she needs beta, as she respects not her alpha father but respects her alpha mother, and you originate as an alpha by virtue of your looks alone, you already start the interaction with a black eye, and thus, if you elect she's worth the effort, you must beta-ize her.

Most girls need balance of the alpha/beta. So contextually, if you hold an alpha appearance (e.g., good-looking, jacked), some beta is needed to open her up.

Know your audience to maximize success.

You basically just described what some of the girls I've hooked up have basically told me. Intimidating and out of their league. And it took some time to eventually hook up with these girls. One even refused to take me seriously even though I wanted something more than casual sex with her because she thought I was lying about it.