BeExcellent: "Nothing short of marriage is exclusive to be perfectly honest"

[Urbanyst]

This is excellent analysis as well. But I would love to see someone answer my question in relation to....WHAT'S NEXT? So as a recap:

- We know marriage makes no sense for 95% of men
- We know being tied to The Family Court in any fashion isn't efficient for 95% of men
- We know women practice the hypergamy shyt and will try to control you, your time, finances, energy, etc.
- We know that the LTR Market is mainly trash
- We know that the Short Term Dating Market is booming

What's next in your opinion @deesade? What's the long term plan now? Do we just keep spinning plates and drop a plate the moment she starts trying to turn one into a provider, or get one to marry her, or get one to "commit strongly to her", etc.? Can you provide an example from your perspective of what that looks like long term?

I'm 34 now and the spinning and constantly dropping plates stuff is okay. But what do I do at 54? AT 64? At 74? The same thing? Can you provide an example from your perspective of what that looks like?

Matter of fact, I'm calling more people in on this one.....including @Urbanyst, @TheProspect, @guru1000, @Augustus_McCrae, @Howiestern and more.........guys the question is simply WHAT'S NEXT? What's the long term planning going forward from your perspective? Or, do you not have a long term plan and are only focusing on the short term/daily/weekly plans of just continuing to spin/drop plates?

What's next? More MONEY.

Without having family and women around to drain your time.. you have more time to develop yourself and thrive in your career or life calling. One thing I agree with @BeExcellent on is the idea that LTRs and marriage are increasingly becoming practices only for the upper class. I don't know if I want kids yet, but I might. The closer you can get to gaining entry into that top 10% or 20% of MEN the better your chances of a successful LTR that is ideal for raising a child the right way.

If I still can't find something good.. at least I'll have a very comfortable life. So that's my focus. Career and physical health first. Everything else second.

 

[guru1000]

Guru let's look at the stats related to my Generation, The Millennial Generation, because we can't include data from the Baby Boomer Generation due to the fact that was a completely different time period, value set, and dating market for them.

In my Generation, from a national average, at least 60% are not married. When you look at individual states, the number can go as high as 80%.

Getting married is no longer a requirement for my Generation, like it was for Generations previously. So we have to focus in on my Generation as honestly, most of the contributors on this website (along with the MGTOW Men you want to convince to get married) are of MY Generation.......

Guy, I date younger women than you do, lol.

 

[Tenacity]

What's next? More MONEY.

Without having family and women around to drain your time.. you have more time to develop yourself and thrive in your career or life calling. One thing I agree with @BeExcellent on is the idea that LTRs and marriage are increasingly becoming practices only for the upper class. I don't know if I want kids yet, but I might. The closer you can get to gaining entry into that top 10% or 20% of MEN the better your chances of a successful LTR that is ideal for raising a child the right way.

If I still can't find something good.. at least I'll have a very comfortable life. So that's my focus. Career and physical health first. Everything else second.

Bro, the problem for me is that based on annual income, net worth, fitness level (6 pack), and college completion......I'm already in the Top 10% for ALL AMERICANS across ALL age groups and when it comes to our Generation (Millennials) I'm in the top 3% to 4%.

So I have already arrived Bro.....and I don't see these people that @guru1000 and @BeExcellent are talking about.

 

[Tenacity]

Guy, I date younger women than you do, lol.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you mentioned before that you don't date American women, correct? It's mainly foreign women or something?

Yes, women should not be expecting you to pay for every date. Are you sending out that vibe? If she asks you out then she should be offering to pay or at least pay half.

If you are doing all of the asking then you are setting yourself up to be the one paying each time.

If you can cook then perhaps a home cooked meal at your place that's affordable and can lead to other things....

If you plan to try to spin plates that are young and attractive for the rest of your life then you will need to put money away for when you are old and will need to basically to use money as an incentive to to keep young women interested.

I don't know man....you guys know I have been working on "anger" issues with women. A lot of those anger issues just came from, in my opinion, the women/plates just being ridiculous.

Yes, I've been with a lot of women over the last 7 plus years, but the relationships have been mainly ridiculous. Of the 200 plus women I've been with since March 2010, I can count on ONE HAND (understand, one hand) how many actually would contribute to paying for a portion of a date or a portion of dates in total. ONE HAND.

 

[Augustus_McCrae]

This is excellent analysis as well. But I would love to see someone answer my question in relation to....WHAT'S NEXT? So as a recap:

- We know marriage makes no sense for 95% of men
- We know being tied to The Family Court in any fashion isn't efficient for 95% of men
- We know women practice the hypergamy shyt and will try to control you, your time, finances, energy, etc.
- We know that the LTR Market is mainly trash
- We know that the Short Term Dating Market is booming

What's next in your opinion @deesade? What's the long term plan now? Do we just keep spinning plates and drop a plate the moment she starts trying to turn one into a provider, or get one to marry her, or get one to "commit strongly to her", etc.? Can you provide an example from your perspective of what that looks like long term?

I'm 34 now and the spinning and constantly dropping plates stuff is okay. But what do I do at 54? AT 64? At 74? The same thing? Can you provide an example from your perspective of what that looks like?

Matter of fact, I'm calling more people in on this one.....including @Urbanyst, @TheProspect, @guru1000, @Augustus_McCrae, @Howiestern and more.........guys the question is simply WHAT'S NEXT? What's the long term planning going forward from your perspective? Or, do you not have a long term plan and are only focusing on the short term/daily/weekly plans of just continuing to spin/drop plates?

Tenacity,

I can give the old guy perspective on this (turned 60 this year).

The biggest variable is: do you want to have kids? If not, it's fairly simple: spin plates until you want to LTR. If the LTR stops working for you, end it and spin plates again. You can basically do whatever you want to do for the rest of your life.

If you want kids, consider this:

I have already had kids, they are grown. And without question , I can honestly say that I've never regretted it. Even considering all the pain and bvll**** my ex has inflicted on me (FYI, I'm currently fighting an alimony modification lawsuit from her. 7k already in lawyers fees and its not over yet) I am so glad I have them. They are my family.

I'm currently in an LTR (1 1/2 yrs). She's 12 years younger. Every indication is that she's a good woman. Mentally stable, raised right, parents stayed together, good job, good boner factor. I can tell that somewhere down the road she would like to get married. She has even offered to help support me if I want to retire.

What will I do? I'm going to wait and see how things unfold. I've learned that things change and that women can change (seems to be the norm).

Would I marry again? As long as I make the kind of money I do (six figures), no way. The wild card is when I retire. It's likely that her income will be more than mine and she will almost undoubtedly have more assets. So if its a case of me being the one to benefit in a divorce, then I might consider it. To some degree it would demonstrate that she wanted to get married for the right reasons and it also helps reduce the risk of frivorce. But even considering all of that, the odds are very low. The finances would all have to be in my favor. And to be clear, not so I could frivorce her, but to remove any possible benefit for her to divorce me.

So with regard to kids and marriage, think like a woman would. If you go that route, do everything you can to make sure that she has an incentive to stay married to you. Try to eliminate the possibly of frivorce by vetting the h*ll out of her and structuring your finances so she can't rape you. And the number one trait you're looking for? Mental stability.

-Augustus-

 

[guru1000]

Bro, the problem for me is that based on annual income, net worth, fitness level (6 pack), and college completion......I'm already in the Top 10% for ALL AMERICANS across ALL age groups and when it comes to our Generation (Millennials) I'm in the top 3% to 4%.

So I have already arrived Bro.....and I don't see these people that @guru1000 and @BeExcellent are talking about.

Of course you don't, you're shopping among American black women. Appears you enjoy this.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you mentioned before that you don't date American women, correct? It's mainly foreign women or something?

I'm a magnet to the foreign types. Most American women quite frankly don't do it for me. I have little incentive to date them.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

I think there are actually quite a few guys here that would love to have a good marriage and be a patriarch of their own family, there are plenty of rewards in that. But they are slapped in the face by the reality that in the modern world, marriage has given over most of the advantages to women, and most of the risks to men. When guys talk about the "red pill", they are talking about coming to terms with the idea that modern women are not reliable or conscientious enough to be good wives, and the legal system being stacked against them. And they do that with a considerable bit of sadness - which is why they talk about the red pill being hard to swallow.

Plenty of people would LOVE to make money and be rich. But they try and fail and blame the economy. And claim they are RED PILL because they've realized the "truth" that the economy is "stacked against them." And they take the "truth" with considerable sadness, which is why they talk about how hard it is to swallow the "Red Pill."

I mean, yeah, I could make money, but what with how the game is crooked, I could lose everything due to asset forfeiture laws, or I could get sued. I mean I KNOW I could make a ton of money if the game wasn't so rigged. Sucks that being alive today in this rigged system makes it so hard. I mean, a couple generations ago, people had it EASY. They just showed up to work and made bank. But since the oligarchs that run this country have destroyed it, I can't make my millions. So I'll guess I'll have to smoke a blunt, swallow that red pill and see what's on Netflix.

 

[Tenacity]

Of course you don't, you're shopping among American black women. Appears you enjoy this.



I'm a magnet to the foreign types. Most American women quite frankly don't do it for me. I have little incentive to date them.

Guru so for confirmation, all of your recommendations, strategies, suggestions, etc., in relation to the dating market CENTERS on dating foreign women? Not American women and especially not American BLACK women?

Tenacity,

I can give the old guy perspective on this (turned 60 this year).

The biggest variable is: do you want to have kids? If not, it's fairly simple: spin plates until you want to LTR. If the LTR stops working for you, end it and spin plates again. You can basically do whatever you want to do for the rest of your life.

If you want kids, consider this:

I have already had kids, they are grown. And without question , I can honestly say that I've never regretted it. Even considering all the pain and bvll**** my ex has inflicted on me (FYI, I'm currently fighting an alimony modification lawsuit from her. 7k already in lawyers fees and its not over yet) I am so glad I have them. They are my family.

I'm currently in an LTR (1 1/2 yrs). She's 12 years younger. Every indication is that she's a good woman. Mentally stable, raised right, parents stayed together, good job, good boner factor. I can tell that somewhere down the road she would like to get married. She has even offered to help support me if I want to retire.

What will I do? I'm going to wait and see how things unfold. I've learned that things change and that women can change (seems to be the norm).

Would I marry again? As long as I make the kind of money I do (six figures), no way. The wild card is when I retire. It's likely that her income will be more than mine and she will almost undoubtedly have more assets. So if its a case of me being the one to benefit in a divorce, then I might consider it. To some degree it would demonstrate that she wanted to get married for the right reasons and it also helps reduce the risk of frivorce. But even considering all of that, the odds are very low. The finances would all have to be in my favor. And to be clear, not so I could frivorce her, but to remove any possible benefit for her to divorce me.

So with regard to kids and marriage, think like a woman would. If you go that route, do everything you can to make sure that she has an incentive to stay married to you. Try to eliminate the possibly of frivorce by vetting the h*ll out of her and structuring your finances so she can't rape you. And the number one trait you're looking for? Mental stability.

-Augustus-

I guess if I'm being more honest (which I think a lot of my issues are shared by other guys, so that's why I feel this discussion is important).......I guess the spin/drop plates for life strategy isn't enough for me because I think deep down, WAYYY DEEP DOWN, I still feel like a failure with women (even though I'm succeeding with them).

Let me explain........

As I've documented on here, prior to March 2010, I didn't have my finances fixed. My looks were not completely together, but they were not really/completely BAD either. The main difference is that my finances got fixed in March 2010 and I hit the middle class (and never looked back) since then.

From there, the women/dating/pvssy shyt TOOK OFF like a rocket. I'm talking about now all of a sudden, my goofy personality (which was annoying in March 2007) was now so "cute" in May 2010.

When I was broke and homeless, nobody was there for me. It's like nobody gave a fvck until I "became something". In some form or fashion, that still fvcks me up to this day because it becomes very difficult to trust anybody (from a personal relationship standpoint) because you have no idea what their true intentions are. I honestly think EVERYBODY is trying to "use me" in some fashion.

So I guess there's this part of me deep down....that wants to feel somewhat Loved or something? Shyt I know it's confusing man.

 

[guru1000]

Guru so for confirmation, all of your recommendations, strategies, suggestions, etc., in relation to the dating market CENTERS on dating foreign women? Not American women and especially not American BLACK women?

Definitely not American black women.

80/20, as to my experience with foreign/American women, which = much experience with both.

I guess if I'm being more honest (which I think a lot of my issues are shared by other guys, so that's why I feel this discussion is important).......I guess the spin/drop plates for life strategy isn't enough for me because I think deep down,

Yup, it gets unsatisfying, especially after you conquered hundreds. Hence, why I open up the door to LTRs for others. Not that I'm a fan of it for myself, but better to have an open view of the end goal than a myopic perspective.

 

[Augustus_McCrae]

Guru so for confirmation, all of your recommendations, strategies, suggestions, etc., in relation to the dating market CENTERS on dating foreign women? Not American women and especially not American BLACK women?




I guess if I'm being more honest (which I think a lot of my issues are shared by other guys, so that's why I feel this discussion is important).......I guess the spin/drop plates for life strategy isn't enough for me because I think deep down, WAYYY DEEP DOWN, I still feel like a failure with women (even though I'm succeeding with them).

Let me explain........

As I've documented on here, prior to March 2010, I didn't have my finances fixed. My looks were not completely together, but they were not really/completely BAD either. The main difference is that my finances got fixed in March 2010 and I hit the middle class (and never looked back) since then.

From there, the women/dating/pvssy shyt TOOK OFF like a rocket. I'm talking about now all of a sudden, my goofy personality (which was annoying in March 2007) was now so "cute" in May 2010.

When I was broke and homeless, nobody was there for me. It's like nobody gave a fvck until I "became something". In some form or fashion, that still fvcks me up to this day because it becomes very difficult to trust anybody (from a personal relationship standpoint) because you have no idea what their true intentions are. I honestly think EVERYBODY is trying to "use me" in some fashion.

So I guess there's this part of me deep down....that wants to feel somewhat Loved or something? Shyt I know it's confusing man.

Tenacity,

Here is the thing:

Internal self worth. If a man truly believes he has self worth, that he's worthy of love and respect, that no one is better than he is (billionaires and kings included), it shows in everything he does.

Both women and men respond to this, they recognize how you feel about yourself. You're not acting, you're not faking it until you make it. You simply are. And people immediately respect you and treat you a certain way.

And it has absolutely nothing to do with money or status symbols. But it has everything to do with how you view and feel about yourself.

It is the foundation of everything in your life.

-Augustus-

 

[BeExcellent]

Well Augustus I looked around for the list I had made previously and I have no idea where it went. I thought it was in the Unicorn thread, but it wasn't. So I will give you the list. Some of these men were on the prior list. It's a bit lengthy to give the detail requested. Here's part 1.

The gentleman I dated for 18 months in CA is in his early 50's full head of light brown wavy hair, classically handsome face and build, 6'1 or 6'2" and has an athletic fit build. Jewish. Surfs and plays basketball, lifts and swims to keep in shape. Whenever we attended events together men always innately gave him deference, women always noted how handsome he is, and what an attractive couple we made. I would describe him as debonair/dashing. He lives in a house worth 7 figures, works in the film industry and lives in an exclusive area. He grew up on Chicago's Gold Coast. Ex wife was beautiful, very rich family and serious BPD crazy. He is still dealing with post divorce court battles over his children because his ex has unlimited funds to keep running him through the legal system. Doesn't have the emotional bandwidth to get serious with someone right now. He sends me thoughtful touch base texts from time to time, the most recent one a few days ago. I do not reach out to him...but I respond when I hear from him. His legal stuff is ongoing. Poor guy. He was exactly the sort of man who appeals to me.

Another gentleman I had a date or two with there owns a production company. He lives on Billionaire's Beach in Malibu. Blond, full hair, blue eyes, in his late 50s. very smart, successful (obviously) and intelligent. Rapier wit. He is recently divorced & gets on well with his ex wife. He's fit and athletic and has an attractive face. I didn't find him sexy. He likes having a girlfriend (don't know if he would marry again) and by now I'm sure probably has one assuming he's found a woman he clicks with. He's at his core a bit of a rich hippie throwback. Cool guy.

The gentleman that wants very much to date me seriously is in his early 50s, full head of blonde/silver hair, was a "pretty boy" in his 20s and 30s. Has a handsome face. Very self assured/confident. Likes to teasingly introduce me as his future fiancee (Ugh). He owns two businesses that have an international book of business, also has real estate investments, skis, rides (as in horses), travels extensively, parents are both medical professionals who also made millions in investments, lives in an exclusive area, drives a high end car, very recently divorced. He was a D1 college athlete but he allowed himself to get a belly (which I find to be a turn off). He is working out with a pro body builder as his trainer everyday now and is doing the low carb thing to get the extra weight off and get back into shape. Even if he loses the belly I still don't find him sexy. He's one that really liked being married and wants to be married again. He's very self confident and I like him as a person but he doesn't attract me personally beyond friends and business.

The gentleman in Vegas who always teases that we will end up together is an old flame from my early 20s. Terribly sexy. He is twice divorced and dates women half his age as playthings (he's late 40s). He runs a 25M business in the restaurant/bar space and also makes plenty of money in the financial markets. I know because we chat about business endeavors and catch up on occasion as he is looking at other asset classes to diversify. He chooses for now to be single. He's 5'8", fit, full head of silver hair, quickest wit, highest intelligence, and best people skills I've ever seen. Natural DJ all the way. He thinks we may end up together as late as our eighties assuming we both live that long but I think he is more bark than anything so I don't take him too seriously. He thinks I'm "the one that got away" and the history is nice in that we know each other's lives well enough that there is a comfort factor with him. We will always adore each other as we have watched one another struggle and overcome so much in our respective lives. We have deep mutual respect between us. He's a delightful mess.

The man I am seeing now is a retired military officer who is financially independent although not as wealthy as the others. His income is six figures, but less than mine. Twice divorced. Father of 3 children. He is mid 40s, classical tall, dark and handsome appearance, masculine stance and physique. Full head of thick dark hair, very little gray, Spanish/Italian heritage. Gregarious, hot and naturally aloof. Always attracts women, has numerous female friends who "have an agenda" - His words - (Duh.) He's about 6'2", 215 or 200, built like a linebacker, in shape. He does a lot of charity work in various veterans causes, which I greatly admire. He's a "player" archetype or a rake. Dances latin (as do I) for years - that's how we met. He is very sexy but not clingy (which is good for me.) He wants a traditional type woman who offers more than beauty/body. He can get beauty/body in spades (and has), but the conquests don't fulfill him. Women chase him, cling to him, throw themselves at him. He's over it. He's very straightforward about all that although to be sure he likes the attention and validation. He's a nightlife guy, which I enjoy, but also likes to stay in. So great compatibility; great chemistry. He's not used to a woman who has enough self worth to give him space and he is falling at about 4 months in (he has said so and his actions are consistent with this.) I like him a lot also. Ridiculous chemistry. We take it day by day.

The retired pro hockey player is ruggedly handsome, Nordic looking with full hair and chiseled facial bone structure. Looks like a Viking. Hair is thinning but still mostly there. Very masculine looking. Imposing. He is mid 50s. Never married, no kids (that he's aware of, Ha!) He's a little on the heavy side (maybe 20lbs), but he's a BIG guy so he carries it well, although his knees are shot (and that makes exercise challenging for him). He's 6', probably 250. Got out of hockey to go into business, has a very successful industrial company he owns, has homes in 4 different cities that are all expensive places to own property, drives 100K plus cars. He's a "player" archetype as well, and obviously never settled down, which he says looking around at his buddies and their families, he regrets. I told him he ought to date a woman in her 20s or 30s if kids and a family are what he wants, and he feels he is too old to fool with that at this point in his life although he could easily afford it. His income is in the 1M per month range. He's too rough around the edges for me.

 

[BeExcellent]

Here's Part 2.

There is a 35 year old guy, very in shape, very handsome, who owns his own business and is quite mature for his age. Never married, no kids. Very wealthy family. Family owns an internationally known business that he is now helping to run. Before coming back to his family business he was also a film industry production guy. Sexy, masculine and very good looking. He has the same complaint about women as the guys here. Met him through a mutual friend/buisness associate. He's ruggedly handsome, blonde, well built and proportioned at about 5'11 185 or so. Handsome face, Jewish. He too has no issue meeting hot women with great bodies, he wants MORE than just hot/pretty. He has asked me out but I decline because I think I'm too old for him and if he wants kids that isn't workable for me anyhow. What impressed me about him was the amount of life experience and depth of knowledge he has. He's an impressive, self confident, got it going on kinda guy. I'm sure he can pull HB9s all day long from 20 to 50, he just wants a total package kind of woman, which are hard to find.

I've also had a couple dates not too long ago with a financial planner who is late 40s, clean cut and nice looking, drives a 100K car, lives in an exclusive area in a golf course community, etc. etc...I found him too white bread vanilla and too fussy. Not sexy at all. No desire to kiss him whatsoever.

There's also the early 50's artist/builder who I have gotten to know. He's maybe 5'7", Spanish dark & handsome look, thick dark full hair, creative, brooding. Less fit than the others with a bit of a belly. Otherwise his limbs are well muscled. Women find him attractive and he's always got female attention. Quick wit, natural leader, take no BS kinda man. Sexy, ambitious, recovering from a nasty divorce financially, from a very well connected family in LA.

And the physical therapist who makes the least of the people I've noted. He is 6', about 165, trim and body fat maybe at 5%. Lifts so has a slender but muscular build. Kind of triathlete looking. He owns his own home in a nice area and probably makes about 100K. He's never married and no kids in his late 40s. He's deeply religious and while he'd like to have a family he's losing hope that he can find a great gal for that. He's gotten kinda cynical about it. He's attractive and handsome but not the overtly sexy type that I'm drawn to, and if he wants kids one day, I'm not his girl. But he is what anyone here would consider a "good" guy.

It's interesting that @ImTheDoubleGreatest! is seeing the dynamic that I am describing in the more affluent environment that he now inhabits. The women are prettier and thinner, and the men wealthier. But what his brother said can also be seen. There are couples who do not give off any sort of sexual vibe at all. Some of the men are this ultra clean cut, fussy, white bread vanilla, golf course, country club type...and I don't find those types appealing at all, although they are often attractive and in shape. And too you can see nice looking thin women, who don't have sex appeal. I do know couples however who give that appearance in public but in a more intimate setting like a dinner party in someone's home, you can see more how a couple interacts and you can see clues to the intimacy they share. You can see the sweet or cute cues between people, especially after a drink or two. So don't assume those marriages are passionless, they might just be extremely private. You know, lady in the streets and all that.

I attract these type of men because of what they have a hard time finding in the marketplace, and that is the right combination of sex appeal, stability, sweetness, and intelligence in addition to the pretty face a fit body. This is what I personally hear all the time.

 

[BeExcellent]

Tenacity,

Here is the thing:

Internal self worth. If a man truly believes he has self worth, that he's worthy of love and respect, that no one is better than he is (billionaires and kings included), it shows in everything he does.

Both women and men respond to this, they recognize how you feel about yourself. You're not acting, you're not faking it until you make it. You simply are. And people immediately respect you and treat you a certain way.

And it has absolutely nothing to do with money or status symbols. But it has everything to do with how you view and feel about yourself.

It is the foundation of everything in your life.

-Augustus-

^^^^^Utterly, absolutely, and always true.

@Tenacity all I would say to you about your logical break down of why or why not to get married is this. Relationships, including marriage cannot be boiled down strictly into dollars and sense, and evaluated on logic. It is not logic but emotion that determines whether or not a particular person appeals to you for some sort of personal relationship. So I do not equate the way I evaluate a buisness transaction to the way I size up a potential relationship partner. They cannot be evaluated in the same way because there are intangible factors in the relationship that matter to a MUCH greater degree than in a business deal.

You have shared so much with the forum and I think you have to look at that WAAYYY DEEP DOWN attitude you noted. Before I could become successful I struggled with a similar attitude that was deeply embedded like that. Mine said "You aren't good enough". I still today have to beat that demon down when it tries to get up. I AM good enough.

It takes time, introspection and self awareness to reprogram that sub-conscious message. But you CAN do it. I am proof that you can, and I am proof that once you do you enable yourself to change your fortunes. It's wierd. It's as though it broadcasts itself to people around you and yet it hides itself from you. Devilish thing.

And you can never feed it. Or it will try and resurrect itself in your psyche.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

I honestly think EVERYBODY is trying to "use me" in some fashion.

So I guess there's this part of me deep down....that wants to feel somewhat Loved or something? Shyt I know it's confusing man.

Dude, that is your kryptonite issue.

I recommend you explore that with a qualified counselor.

The issue is very common.

Guy craves love. Guy is terrified of getting rejected by somebody that MEANS something beyond sex. So to avoid rejection, guy only dates low quality skanks.

Due to the magic of cognitive dissonance, guy REFUSES to admit that there MIGHT BE some better women out there. Because if the guy TRIED to get BETTER quality women, guy might get rejected by somebody IMPORTANT so guy doesn't even consider it as an option.

Every guy that settles settles for that very reason.

On the other hand, if you embrace your fears you can continue to bang better quality women till the day you die.

 

[AJ84]

Guru so for confirmation, all of your recommendations, strategies, suggestions, etc., in relation to the dating market CENTERS on dating foreign women? Not American women and especially not American BLACK women?




I guess if I'm being more honest (which I think a lot of my issues are shared by other guys, so that's why I feel this discussion is important).......I guess the spin/drop plates for life strategy isn't enough for me because I think deep down, WAYYY DEEP DOWN, I still feel like a failure with women (even though I'm succeeding with them).

Let me explain........

As I've documented on here, prior to March 2010, I didn't have my finances fixed. My looks were not completely together, but they were not really/completely BAD either. The main difference is that my finances got fixed in March 2010 and I hit the middle class (and never looked back) since then.

From there, the women/dating/pvssy shyt TOOK OFF like a rocket. I'm talking about now all of a sudden, my goofy personality (which was annoying in March 2007) was now so "cute" in May 2010.

When I was broke and homeless, nobody was there for me. It's like nobody gave a fvck until I "became something". In some form or fashion, that still fvcks me up to this day because it becomes very difficult to trust anybody (from a personal relationship standpoint) because you have no idea what their true intentions are. I honestly think EVERYBODY is trying to "use me" in some fashion.

So I guess there's this part of me deep down....that wants to feel somewhat Loved or something? Shyt I know it's confusing man.

It's not confusing. You're a human being not a robot. If you had past negative experiences with women it's understandable why you are keeping it casual and low investment with spinning plates etc, and maybe subconsciously picking women you know you would never fall for.

The flip side of that is that you probably won't find love (however you define that) with women you keep at arms length with the plate stuff. It's sh***y because in order to get that kind of emotional investment from another person you usually have to let them in and take a risk of being vulnerable. Aside from flakey crazy and self obsessed women, normal women are hesitant to invest if they know they are just a plate.

Not saying you are seeking that but you did say a part of you is wanting something more.

 

[Augustus_McCrae]

Here's Part 2.

There is a 35 year old guy, very in shape, very handsome, who owns his own business and is quite mature for his age. Never married, no kids. Very wealthy family. Family owns an internationally known business that he is now helping to run. Before coming back to his family business he was also a film industry production guy. Sexy, masculine and very good looking. He has the same complaint about women as the guys here. Met him through a mutual friend/buisness associate. He's ruggedly handsome, blonde, well built and proportioned at about 5'11 185 or so. Handsome face, Jewish. He too has no issue meeting hot women with great bodies, he wants MORE than just hot/pretty. He has asked me out but I decline because I think I'm too old for him and if he wants kids that isn't workable for me anyhow. What impressed me about him was the amount of life experience and depth of knowledge he has. He's an impressive, self confident, got it going on kinda guy. I'm sure he can pull HB9s all day long from 20 to 50, he just wants a total package kind of woman, which are hard to find.

I've also had a couple dates not too long ago with a financial planner who is late 40s, clean cut and nice looking, drives a 100K car, lives in an exclusive area in a golf course community, etc. etc...I found him too white bread vanilla and too fussy. Not sexy at all. No desire to kiss him whatsoever.

There's also the early 50's artist/builder who I have gotten to know. He's maybe 5'7", Spanish dark & handsome look, thick dark full hair, creative, brooding. Less fit than the others with a bit of a belly. Otherwise his limbs are well muscled. Women find him attractive and he's always got female attention. Quick wit, natural leader, take no BS kinda man. Sexy, ambitious, recovering from a nasty divorce financially, from a very well connected family in LA.

And the physical therapist who makes the least of the people I've noted. He is 6', about 165, trim and body fat maybe at 5%. Lifts so has a slender but muscular build. Kind of triathlete looking. He owns his own home in a nice area and probably makes about 100K. He's never married and no kids in his late 40s. He's deeply religious and while he'd like to have a family he's losing hope that he can find a great gal for that. He's gotten kinda cynical about it. He's attractive and handsome but not the overtly sexy type that I'm drawn to, and if he wants kids one day, I'm not his girl. But he is what anyone here would consider a "good" guy.

It's interesting that @ImTheDoubleGreatest! is seeing the dynamic that I am describing in the more affluent environment that he now inhabits. The women are prettier and thinner, and the men wealthier. But what his brother said can also be seen. There are couples who do not give off any sort of sexual vibe at all. Some of the men are this ultra clean cut, fussy, white bread vanilla, golf course, country club type...and I don't find those types appealing at all, although they are often attractive and in shape. And too you can see nice looking thin women, who don't have sex appeal. I do know couples however who give that appearance in public but in a more intimate setting like a dinner party in someone's home, you can see more how a couple interacts and you can see clues to the intimacy they share. You can see the sweet or cute cues between people, especially after a drink or two. So don't assume those marriages are passionless, they might just be extremely private. You know, lady in the streets and all that.

I attract these type of men because of what they have a hard time finding in the marketplace, and that is the right combination of sex appeal, stability, sweetness, and intelligence in addition to the pretty face a fit body. This is what I personally hear all the time.

If they don't put out by the 3rd date, do you kick them to the curb?

How long have you been divorced and how many actual marriage proposals have you received?

-Augustus-

 

[BeExcellent]

If they don't put out by the 3rd date, do you kick them to the curb?

How long have you been divorced and how many actual marriage proposals have you received?

-Augustus-

In March next year it will be 4 years since the divorce was final. I'm curious why you ask about the number of marriage proposals.

And you already know that I won't kick them to the curb if they don't put out by date 3...but I do kick them to the curb if they are too sexually aggressive too fast. I have been known to do that.

 

[MrAddiction]

Driving, air travel and school are all far more NECESSARY than marriage.

On top: all the mentioned thing bring something for me, are fun or at least save me time or bring me forward.
But to say it in the words of a Woman: "what is in for me" - regarding marriage?

 

[MrAddiction]

Ask yourself one simple question: is this woman here to learn, or is she here to lead

That came to mind

https://therationalmale.com/2014/06/03/male-space/
...and that
https://therationalmale.com/2016/06/01/mansplaining/
To quote
"So the solution, as always, is to remove the man, remove the masculine influence, change the language and the definitions, to remake the nature of the engagement if not the actual real-world factors that make the game or the politic or the business what it is – to silence the man by telling him to “just shut the hell up” or be tarred with the epithet of being a ‘typical man’."

 

[Tenacity]

Tenacity,

Here is the thing:

Internal self worth. If a man truly believes he has self worth, that he's worthy of love and respect, that no one is better than he is (billionaires and kings included), it shows in everything he does.

Both women and men respond to this, they recognize how you feel about yourself. You're not acting, you're not faking it until you make it. You simply are. And people immediately respect you and treat you a certain way.

And it has absolutely nothing to do with money or status symbols. But it has everything to do with how you view and feel about yourself.

It is the foundation of everything in your life.

-Augustus-

Dude, that is your kryptonite issue.

I recommend you explore that with a qualified counselor.

The issue is very common.

Guy craves love. Guy is terrified of getting rejected by somebody that MEANS something beyond sex. So to avoid rejection, guy only dates low quality skanks.

Due to the magic of cognitive dissonance, guy REFUSES to admit that there MIGHT BE some better women out there. Because if the guy TRIED to get BETTER quality women, guy might get rejected by somebody IMPORTANT so guy doesn't even consider it as an option.

Every guy that settles settles for that very reason.

On the other hand, if you embrace your fears you can continue to bang better quality women till the day you die.

Guys but I don't know if I have a self-worth problem.......it's a trust problem. Put it like this, I'm going to give you an analogy so you understand.

It's like a older black guy that grew up during Jim Crow, when he experienced a lot of bad experiences with white people. But now that Jim Crow is over, those bad experiences have put a STAMP on his soul in some way, to where he can get along, work with, and even in some circumstances "befriend" white people.....but the STAMP of the bad experiences always leaves a place of distrust for them.

That's how I feel with women. I'm living the tale of two lives.

From 16 to about 25, women HATE ME. Hate. Me. I'm roasted, mocked, made fun of....they went out of their way to make it be known that I "svcked" and that nobody (yes nobody) should ever, everrrrr have anything to do with me.

From late 25 to now, well, now I'm so "cute". Now I'm so "attractive". Now they want me to commit to them, spend time with them, date them, take them here, take them there, answer my phone when they call, stop working so much and spend more time with them, etc., etc. Why the SUDDEN fvcking change?

Yes, I know I preach that a guy should fix his looks, personality, and finances to become attractive to women.....I did just that......but it's just still this STAIN in my soul from the very piss poor way that women in general treated me for no fvcking reason back in the day. No fvcking reason.

So it's like today, I treat them almost like toys, which means I play with them when I want to play with them and I never ALLOW them to get into a position where they have any real authority over me whatsoever because at the end of the day.......I'm still kind of SHELL SHOCKED at the sudden change.