BeExcellent: "Nothing short of marriage is exclusive to be perfectly honest"

[zekko]

So while the HALF of us that have logically, critically, etc., diagnosed a problem with the current structure, what we have honestly FAILED to do is come up with what the NEW STRUCTURE looks like? Okay, so we tell a guy not to get married......now what??

I think we all have to decide that for ourselves. I've decided to cohabitate - that's not for everyone, but it seems to be working well for me. Some will decide to spin plates lifelong, some will desire children and heirs and take the risk of marriage anyway. Some might have kids out of wedlock (although that's just as dangerous as marriage IMO), some might go totally MGTOW, forget women, and focus on themselves. Maybe they'll go off the grid.

I don't know what the "new society" will look like after all this upheaval is over. I probably won't live to see it, and I'm not sure I care to see it, the way things are going. But for now we have to each individually decide on our own direction.

 

[Tenacity]

I think we all have to decide that for ourselves. I've decided to cohabitate - that's not for everyone, but it seems to be working well for me. Some will decide to spin plates lifelong, some will desire children and heirs and take the risk of marriage anyway. Some might have kids out of wedlock (although that's just as dangerous as marriage IMO), some might go totally MGTOW, forget women, and focus on themselves. Maybe they'll go off the grid.

I don't know what the "new society" will look like after all this upheaval is over. I probably won't live to see it, and I'm not sure I care to see it, the way things are going. But for now we have to each individually decide on our own direction.

I completely agree....it's just hard to make any long term plans with this. In prior times, the long term plan was obviously to party it up from age 18 to 35, then look at settling down in your 30's or somewhere in your early 40's with a chick that fits either all of your criteria or a good chunk of it.

Now that the Family Court has blown up that process, every guy has to determine his own individual path and I think that's where a lot of us run into problems. It's because I can tell you what my plans are for this month and for next year.........what about 2022? 2025? 2028? I have no clue.

I'm honestly still finalizing it and I will post my overall plan on this board once I get it done. As you know, I bring my business principles into my social world management, I believe if we FAIL TO PLAN then we are PLANNING TO FAIL.

One thing I must point out though, having kids out of wedlock is not as dangerous as marriage. You have to deal with the Child Support and Child Custody battles, but you don't have to deal with Divorces nor Alimony Payments. I mean it's still a pain in the a.ss nevertheless.

 

[Bible_Belt]

If you are so worried about a woman taking your money, then why don't you marry a woman with more money than you? If you demand that she be young and hot, it will probably have to be her family's money, but marrying into money is not that difficult. I did it. I'm divorced now, but I would do it all over again. Look for students at your local ultra-expensive private college, especially international students.

 

[guru1000]

The advantages to certain marriages:

1) Marrying into wealth;
2) Marrying into networks;
3) Marrying into family;
4) Marrying for political reasons;
5) Marrying for certain occupational reasons;
6) Marrying for certain social reasons not described above;
7) Marrying within an echelon of women (who you want and could not formerly secure) who will not entertain not-marital relations;
8) And other reasons not thought about or discussed here.

As to liabilities under No 7, it's called a prenup, which is a legal contract which delineates all the rules, qualifiers, contingencies, liabilities, circumstances, extensions, variances, opportunity costs, and limitations within, inside, outside, of, and circumscribing the marriage.

1) Prenups getting set aside are rarities, not rules (as are all legal business contracts getting set aside);
2) Premarital assets are not subject to divorce proceedings (unless commingled to such an extent that bifurcation is no longer possible);
3) All assets whether in or out of a marriage should be titled in corporate name, within such degrees as your wealth reasonably directs (e.g. domestic vs. offshore).

The above is not to be confused with women who will co-habitate without title of marriage (and assuming the marriage certificate in no way benefits you). In such a case, a contract (marriage) for contract (prenup) is waste of time, resources, and money.

 

[Augustus_McCrae]

i still remember the good ol' days when women joined this forum

"TlTS or GTFO"

they were simpler times

LMFAO

 

[Augustus_McCrae]

Augustus it really doesn't matter. They are high value and they are handsome to the degree that they have their pick among women. I know because I know these people. I can't say why they are single. They are. I know a couple prefer to be married, others prefer not to be married, others would entertain it if the right woman came along. Just like the guys here.

I've listed them out before (I think at your request) and that just invites people who either don't believe me or think I'm a show off.

Men pick me because I am more than a pretty face and a hot body. I date men who can get hot women; pretty women all day. They could date younger women (and some have or do). Without exception they want more than hot/pretty. Hot/pretty is their baseline. Just like handsome/sexy/successful is my baseline.

When you are doing things right you start at whatever your baseline is, and then you look at attraction and compatibility. That's what I do, and what I observe the high value men I date and who I observe in the market doing.

BE, can you provide a link to where you listed them out before including age and physical appearance?

Its obvious that you consider yourself a high value woman. You've stated that you're beautiful and that you have the figure of a much younger woman.

And I think it does matter because you present yourself as an example here of what a high value older woman can pull in the sexual market place. I think a lot of the guys here would be interested in what the reality of dating is like for an older woman with a high SMV that can pull wealthy , attractive men who could have much younger women.


-Augustus-

 

[Von]

It took me a while to get my head around the "high quality woman" idea.

Until I realized that it's just their version of the alpha-male. It's both idealistic and situational.

A woman will have sets where she's "the quality woman", and sets where she's getting banged like a slut without commitment. No different than how I've had sets where I'm an alpha sexy beast, and others where I was a cringeworthy beta.

#girlgame

I would call this a woman game. Because it's having a logical application of the emotional stimulus

Girls have no idea and are just chaotic until there is path forced upon her (by a male)

Woman are mature.

Mature means they have better control on the chaos and impulse.

In French there is a saying: "le jeu et enjeu"

It can basically means: you have the eyes on winning the game or winning the prize

It's strongly applicable to the women. Will you win the game and lose the prize
Or lose the game and win the prize

That's where you identify who are the mature male

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

Perhaps one of the reasons for this is a recognition from women that the doctor/lawyer/successful business man they married, by and large meets their hypergamous ideal (they won't do any better in the SMV).

I moved about 2 and a half years ago from a relatively more quiet and tougher area (by no means a ghetto though, but there were some neighboring cities that were a bit shady), to the very epitome of ‘White America’. Not a Walmart to be seen for miles in any direction, and the produce stores are slightly fancier places like Whole Foods or another supermarket specialized for specifically the economic status of the locale. Across the main road from where I live lies the most corrupt county in all of the United States (as deemed by any and every source who knows about it’s corruption). Now Im fortunate enough to have a house that is pretty nice tbh. But over there across the street, you find 3-story houses with a pool built into the ground and another on the roof, a giant complex with a garage that is separated from the main wing of the house that is bigger than your own fvcking house (~6000 sq. ft.), and more than a few homes that are 4 stories. Travel down farther and you find the (in)famous $11,000,000 home. I could keep going, but you get the point.

Something that I notice here is that the women tend to be better looking than the women who lived in the area I previously lived by. A lot of it is just because they can afford better makeup, clothes, and can visit salons frequently, but some is just inherent beauty. The wives of the husbands tend to stay skinnier and I see hotter women at the gym too. Also, the men are more wimpy and the women b!tchier than the ones by where I used to live by. So I concur that prettier women do marry wealthier men. But there’s something strange that my brother actually pointed out. The women are only ‘pretty’. That is the only way you can describe them really. None of them are ‘sexy’. Like they are just an ornament for looks and can’t do anything else. They aren’t sexual people at all. So I see what BE means when they won’t give their man a hard time, but they also won’t give him a good time either. They don’t DO anything lol. It’s akin to describing a dead fish in bed. Perfect description. They’re so VANILLA lol.

 

[Tenacity]

It took me a while to get my head around the "high quality woman" idea.

Until I realized that it's just their version of the alpha-male. It's both idealistic and situational.

A woman will have sets where she's "the quality woman", and sets where she's getting banged like a slut without commitment. No different than how I've had sets where I'm an alpha sexy beast, and others where I was a cringeworthy beta.

#girlgame

This is excellent analysis as well. But I would love to see someone answer my question in relation to....WHAT'S NEXT? So as a recap:

- We know marriage makes no sense for 95% of men
- We know being tied to The Family Court in any fashion isn't efficient for 95% of men
- We know women practice the hypergamy shyt and will try to control you, your time, finances, energy, etc.
- We know that the LTR Market is mainly trash
- We know that the Short Term Dating Market is booming

What's next in your opinion @deesade? What's the long term plan now? Do we just keep spinning plates and drop a plate the moment she starts trying to turn one into a provider, or get one to marry her, or get one to "commit strongly to her", etc.? Can you provide an example from your perspective of what that looks like long term?

I'm 34 now and the spinning and constantly dropping plates stuff is okay. But what do I do at 54? AT 64? At 74? The same thing? Can you provide an example from your perspective of what that looks like?

Matter of fact, I'm calling more people in on this one.....including @Urbanyst, @TheProspect, @guru1000, @Augustus_McCrae, @Howiestern and more.........guys the question is simply WHAT'S NEXT? What's the long term planning going forward from your perspective? Or, do you not have a long term plan and are only focusing on the short term/daily/weekly plans of just continuing to spin/drop plates?

 

[guru1000]

- We know marriage makes no sense for 95% of men
- We know women practice the hypergamy shyt and will try to control you, your time, finances, energy, etc.

-

These two assertions are patently false, and thus lead to a faulty conclusion.

Most of the men here come from failed LTR relations and thus we have an input bias. The general population fares differently.

- We know that the LTR Market is mainly trash

And this is false too dependent on where you are shopping.

 

[Tenacity]

The advantages to certain marriages:

1) Marrying into wealth;
2) Marrying into networks;
3) Marrying into family;
4) Marrying for political reasons;
5) Marrying for certain occupational reasons;
6) Marrying for certain social reasons not described above;
7) Marrying within an echelon of women (who you want and could not formerly secure) who will not entertain not-marital relations;

Sir, this was your list of why it would benefit a man to marry, which mirrors the list I provided here: http://www.sosuave.net/forum/thread...t-married-and-why.244137/page-24#post-2483100

There's no way this benefits anymore than 5% of the male population in the United States Guru? Think about it for a second, we all discuss this "hypergamy" stuff. Women usually marry UP, not DOWN. Which means the man usually has more wealth, networks, political power, occupational power, and social power than she does, which completely crosses out your Numbers 1, 2, 4, 5, and 6 above.

For numbers 3 and 7, I think women can deceive you into thinking they come from this sort of "tradition", when as I asked you in the prior Marriage Thread......if they came from that "tradition", the women of that "tradition" would have married before the age of 22. So how is it that the woman is still 28 - 35 on Match.com or POF.com talking about she's "wifey material"? Wouldn't it be so....that said woman is just a Jenna Bush? Again, a woman that might come from some sort of stable family background, but she has been a party girl up until this point and is NOW seeking to settle down? If the answer is YES, how is this woman any different than 90% of other American women who do literally the same thing?

 

[guru1000]

the women of that "tradition" would have married before the age of 22.

If you have never met such a woman, from what personal experience do you draw this assumption?

 

[Tenacity]

If you have never met such a woman, from what personal experience do you base this assumption?

From what you are describing, you are describing a woman that grew up in a two parent married household, her parents are still married, and her parents/family have put in her certain "values" to eventually settle down and get married like they did.

Is that correct?

If that is correct, I meet this woman ALL of the time Guru. But she's usually around 28 - 35 when she's actually (seriously) looking to "get married". This is usually AFTER she's spent the age of 16 to 27 fvcking Ray Ray, Pookie, Man Man, Tyrone, Derek The Biker, and any other loser.....and/or....fvcking just any other type of "dude". Basically, like I said, she's Jenna Bush.

 

[Tenacity]

Whatever the fvck you want to do.

Little story, growing up I had two granfathers who were very different. One was married over 50 years and a completely faithful family man - the other a massive player who divorced and we are still finding out about illegitimate children now.

Guess who had the more fulfilling life?

I used to get sent around there as a child, and my uncle was staying there too off and on (perhaps the biggest womanizer I've ever seen irl). It was a hilarious experience being around those two.

The future? Bring it on, b1tch.

So give me more information because if I do the spin plates for life thing, I'm going to have to modify certain things.

- Right now, I mainly pay for dates, it's just a gesture. But I usually FVCK or end up doing sexual stuff with the woman within 1 to 2 dates on average. So that means by the 2nd time I've seen her, I've "at least" had my tongue down her throat or ate her out (at least).

- As you know, I make good money but I'm a Minimalist. I set strict budgets on what I spend because I like stacking and stacking money and watching it compound. But the problem with spinning so many plates is that the shyt ADDS UP in terms of expenses. So what do I do? Should I modify my "style" to start getting women to pay for more dates?

 

[guru1000]

From what you are describing, you are describing a woman that grew up in a two parent married household, her parents are still married, and her parents/family have put in her certain "values" to eventually settle down and get married like they did.

Is that correct?

If that is correct, I meet this woman ALL of the time Guru. But she's usually around 28 - 35 when she's actually (seriously) looking to "get married". This is usually AFTER she's spent the age of 16 to 27 fvcking Ray Ray, Pookie, Man Man, Tyrone, Derek The Biker, and any other loser.....and/or....fvcking just any other type of "dude". Basically, like I said, she's Jenna Bush.

Different women we speak of. Just as you secured knowledge of her ex's Ray Ray and Tyrone though extrapolation, so do I.

Not hard to identify the girl when you hold a fluid demeanor, allowing her to voice whatever she feels like without judgment.

So we are referring to different types of women, and thus you have never met such a girl. Accordingly, just because you have never met such a woman as you focus only on American black women among the myriad other types of women (some are black too), your 95% ratio of marriage making no sense (to the forum who mostly don't date black women) is false.

I'll agree that marriage doesn't make sense for most (50%+) people. I'll also agree that some women (though maybe not the women you probably want) will be fine with cohabitation with no marriage license. This is a good option too.

 

[Tenacity]

Different women we speak of. Just as you secured knowledge of her ex's Ray Ray and Tyrone though extrapolation, so do I.

Not hard to identify the girl when you hold a fluid demeanor, allowing her to voice whatever she feels like without judgment.

So we are referring to different types of women, and thus you have never met such a girl. Accordingly, just because you have never met such a woman as you focus only on American black women among the myriad other types of women (some are black too), your 95% ratio of marriage making no sense (to the forum who mostly don't date black women) is false.

I'll agree that marriage doesn't make sense for most (50%+) people. I'll also agree that some women (though maybe not the women you probably want) will be fine with cohabitation with no marriage license. This is a good option too.

Guru let's look at the stats related to my Generation, The Millennial Generation, because we can't include data from the Baby Boomer Generation due to the fact that was a completely different time period, value set, and dating market for them.

In my Generation, from a national average, at least 60% are not married. When you look at individual states, the number can go as high as 80%.

Getting married is no longer a requirement for my Generation, like it was for Generations previously. So we have to focus in on my Generation as honestly, most of the contributors on this website (along with the MGTOW Men you want to convince to get married) are of MY Generation.......

 

[Augustus_McCrae]

I moved about 2 and a half years ago from a relatively more quiet and tougher area (by no means a ghetto though, but there were some neighboring cities that were a bit shady), to the very epitome of ‘White America’. Not a Walmart to be seen for miles in any direction, and the produce stores are slightly fancier places like Whole Foods or another supermarket specialized for specifically the economic status of the locale. Across the main road from where I live lies the most corrupt county in all of the United States (as deemed by any and every source who knows about it’s corruption). Now Im fortunate enough to have a house that is pretty nice tbh. But over there across the street, you find 3-story houses with a pool built into the ground and another on the roof, a giant complex with a garage that is separated from the main wing of the house that is bigger than your own fvcking house (~6000 sq. ft.), and more than a few homes that are 4 stories. Travel down farther and you find the (in)famous $11,000,000 home. I could keep going, but you get the point.

Something that I notice here is that the women tend to be better looking than the women who lived in the area I previously lived by. A lot of it is just because they can afford better makeup, clothes, and can visit salons frequently, but some is just inherent beauty. The wives of the husbands tend to stay skinnier and I see hotter women at the gym too. Also, the men are more wimpy and the women b!tchier than the ones by where I used to live by. So I concur that prettier women do marry wealthier men. But there’s something strange that my brother actually pointed out. The women are only ‘pretty’. That is the only way you can describe them really. None of them are ‘sexy’. Like they are just an ornament for looks and can’t do anything else. They aren’t sexual people at all. So I see what BE means when they won’t give their man a hard time, but they also won’t give him a good time either. They don’t DO anything lol. It’s akin to describing a dead fish in bed. Perfect description. They’re so VANILLA lol.

I know what you mean. Back when I was married, my kids were in private school. Lots of doctors, lawyers and successful businessmen.

There was a group of wives that hung out together. By and large, They were pretentious and very status conscious. They discussed their latest expensive purchases, their European trips, their vacation homes, blah blah blah.

My ex wife wanted to be a part of this "rich b*tch" club. We started attending parties and fund raisers with these pretentious fvcks. My god, what an incredibly boring group of people to hang out with.

Like you said, the women weren't bad looking, but there wasn't anything that was really sexy about them.

And the husbands were successful in their chosen careers, but many of them were out of shape. 95% of them were beta bucks stereotypes. But the women liked the money and perceived status.

Some of them would openly flirt with me (I was usually the most masculine and most in shape guy that was there).

Made me wonder how many were getting railed by the pool boy.

-Augustus-

 

[Tenacity]

Establish steady plates (girlfriend experience) with whom you can netflix and chill, and go out for adventure sex with other girls as your fancy takes you.

I honestly try to do meets and chills with plates without spending money.....but it's like because in 100% of the cases I'm making significantly MORE money than the girl, they all think I'm "rich" and "can afford to do X, Y, and Z". It starts drama, I end up getting mad cause I feel she's trying to get over on me, and the duration of the relationship with the plate significantly shortens.

It's almost like spinning plates for life is much easier when you are Ray Ray or Pookie (broke or working class level)?

 

[AJ84]

So give me more information because if I do the spin plates for life thing, I'm going to have to modify certain things.

- Right now, I mainly pay for dates, it's just a gesture. But I usually FVCK or end up doing sexual stuff with the woman within 1 to 2 dates on average. So that means by the 2nd time I've seen her, I've "at least" had my tongue down her throat or ate her out (at least).

- As you know, I make good money but I'm a Minimalist. I set strict budgets on what I spend because I like stacking and stacking money and watching it compound. But the problem with spinning so many plates is that the shyt ADDS UP in terms of expenses. So what do I do? Should I modify my "style" to start getting women to pay for more dates?

Yes, women should not be expecting you to pay for every date. Are you sending out that vibe? If she asks you out then she should be offering to pay or at least pay half.

If you are doing all of the asking then you are setting yourself up to be the one paying each time.

If you can cook then perhaps a home cooked meal at your place that's affordable and can lead to other things....

If you plan to try to spin plates that are young and attractive for the rest of your life then you will need to put money away for when you are old and will need to basically to use money as an incentive to to keep young women interested.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

So give me more information because if I do the spin plates for life thing, I'm going to have to modify certain things.

- Right now, I mainly pay for dates, it's just a gesture. But I usually FVCK or end up doing sexual stuff with the woman within 1 to 2 dates on average. So that means by the 2nd time I've seen her, I've "at least" had my tongue down her throat or ate her out (at least).

- As you know, I make good money but I'm a Minimalist. I set strict budgets on what I spend because I like stacking and stacking money and watching it compound. But the problem with spinning so many plates is that the shyt ADDS UP in terms of expenses. So what do I do? Should I modify my "style" to start getting women to pay for more dates?

Of course. You'll have to date more well to do and more generous females.