Karma a myth? Or real.

[Ca$ino]

There's something to be said in regards to do unto others as you'd have them do unto you, or what you project you'll get back. "Karma" etc.

IMO "Karma" is a myth because bad things can happen to good people and good things can happen to bad people.

Thoughts?

 

[guru1000]

NN, as you know I was a very bad boy a very long time ago. And I paid dearly.

Since ... I've been a very good boy ... and great things came.

This duality has occurred with dozens of instances throughout my life. So yes, I wholeheartedly believe in karma.

 

[Ca$ino]

NN, as you know I was a very bad boy a very long time ago. And I paid dearly.

Since ... I've been a very good boy ... and great things came.

This duality has occurred with dozens of instances throughout my life. So yes, I wholeheartedly believe in karma.

Don't flip flop on me old boy.

Last we are were told you were "innocent" yet refused to be a stoolie.

Now you were a bad bad boy? Is it an admission of guilt or did you sing like a bird?

 

[guru1000]

Nope, that was the price to pay for bad karma.

 

[Ca$ino]

Nope, that was the price to pay for bad karma.

Wrong again. Your price to pay for bad karma was getting cold feet, tucking tail and running from showing up to meet your idol A.K.A yours truly.

Guess the oyster bar got your hands clammy.

Consider this a personal autograph.

 

[Urbanyst]

Of course its a myth.

Its almost impossible to become successful and stay that way without screwing someone over at some point. Most people have CRAB mentality and will try to drag others down to build themselves up and many succeed.

 

[wifehunter]

 

[Thorninmyside]

If it were universally and demonstrably true, everyone would be good. In general though, not being a cvnt is a pretty good ethos to live by.

 

[Fruitbat]

Karma is completely misunderstood. It is not a personal cosmic adjudicator and was never described that way. It never meant your shyt comes back at you.

Karma comes from the original sanscrit word

√कृ kṛ

to do

Also translated as "action"

It is westernised into a notion of "you reap what you sow". The original meaning can be defined as "the interdependent origination of all forms and phases of life"

We all live in a circle of birth and death, which is called samasara. We are bonded to this and chained to it. Krshna. in ancient Hindu texts states that at wise man practices Nishkarma - passionless action, which means acting without being motivated by the fruits of action. Are you chained to the outcome? Acting with karma in mind, you are still chained to this wheel of samsara.

It is not a law of cause and effect or a cosmic retribution system. We have adapted it to fit the western notion of a personal soul.

You shouldn't be trying to "work" karma to your own ends, which is impossible, it is something you recognise exists and try to break free of it.

There are Hindu interpretations which say that your action in this life is rewarded or punished when your soul, atman, comes back in the next one.

The Buddhist (and I feel the more realistic and palatable) interpretation is different as a good deal of Buddhist thought doesm't share the same notion of rebirth, and doesn't acknowledge a soul. It is more a fundamental working of the universe.

In neither interpretation do acts in this life result in karmic action - good returning good.

Your karma is your role, your action in the universe. Not to be confused with dharma which is your vocation in the universe, at this point I find the distinction confusing.

Eastern thought is very different from ours, yet far more sophisticated IMO. It's a matter of time before they take over

 

[Serenity]

Karma is such a diffuse concept in modern times. Some people believe in it religiously, meaning they don't know how it works. I see it differently. Not all immoral actions lead to bad personal outcomes and not all moral actions lead to good personal outcomes, so in that way karma doesn't work like an absolute law. It does work like a pretty good guideline in most circumstances though. It should be quite obvious that if you treat someone like sh!t there's a pretty good chance they'll do so in return, so the idea of karma isn't a complete myth. It's just a lot more mundane than many people make it out to be, it's not mystical, it's just common sense.

The golden rule (don't do to others what you wouldn't want them doing to you) is a good idea, but it's flawed. It appeals to empathy, if you don't like people punching you then don't do it to others. The one big flaw is when you'd want someone to do something to you, but they don't want you doing it to them. A great example is if you're extremely desperate for sex, there's little more you'd want than for a woman to just fvck you. According to the golden rule it would then be acceptable to throw yourself over one and fvck her, but that's called rape. The golden rule ignores what the other person don't want and assumes everyone would like what you'd like.

It's not just a matter of being true or not regarding concepts like these. It's a matter of trying to understand why the concept exists, what is really meant by it. Most people don't take careful philosophical consideration when analyzing it, thus these concepts are often misunderstood to mean something they do not.

@Fruitbat that's interesting, I did not know the Sanskrit meaning of it. So many Sanskrit words are misunderstood to the point they appear mystical, but they often refer to very mundane understandings already existent in our own language. I don't think karma is that badly misunderstood though, bad actions do in many cases lead to bad results, people just got to erase the word "always" when talking about these things.

 

[Fruitbat]

Karma is such a diffuse concept in modern times. Some people believe in it religiously, meaning they don't know how it works. I see it differently. Not all immoral actions lead to bad personal outcomes and not all moral actions lead to good personal outcomes, so in that way karma doesn't work like an absolute law. It does work like a pretty good guideline in most circumstances though. It should be quite obvious that if you treat someone like sh!t there's a pretty good chance they'll do so in return, so the idea of karma isn't a complete myth. It's just a lot more mundane than many people make it out to be, it's not mystical, it's just common sense.

The golden rule (don't do to others what you wouldn't want them doing to you) is a good idea, but it's flawed. It appeals to empathy, if you don't like people punching you then don't do it to others. The one big flaw is when you'd want someone to do something to you, but they don't want you doing it to them. A great example is if you're extremely desperate for sex, there's little more you'd want than for a woman to just fvck you. According to the golden rule it would then be acceptable to throw yourself over one and fvck her, but that's called rape. The golden rule ignores what the other person don't want and assumes everyone would like what you'd like.

It's not just a matter of being true or not regarding concepts like these. It's a matter of trying to understand why the concept exists, what is really meant by it. Most people don't take careful philosophical consideration when analyzing it, thus these concepts are often misunderstood to mean something they do not.

@Fruitbat that's interesting, I did not know the Sanskrit meaning of it. So many Sanskrit words are misunderstood to the point they appear mystical, but they often refer to very mundane understandings already existent in our own language. I don't think karma is that badly misunderstood though, bad actions do in many cases lead to bad results, people just got to erase the word "always" when talking about these things.

Thanks Grewd, but the notion of "do unto others" and the golden rule, and the notion that if you punch someone, you may get punched, these aren't really karmic. The issue is the personal involvement. Karma is your action, and all actions are interconnected.

There is a story of an Indian king in Hindu texts who had to murder 30 men to save the lives of thousands. This was his karma. The moral value we place is something completely different. The world is a complex spiders web of interactions and actions, and your karma is just which link in which web, in which direction you are going, it's similar to dharma.

I have my own personal circumstances and challenges in life. This is my karma. It isn't related, in the majority of eastern thought, to anything I did. It's my little part in the orchestra of life.

Hope this clarifies what I mean by the misunderstood nature of this word.

 

[PeasantPlayer]

Karma is poorly understood in the spiritually young western culture. Its just a catchphrase in our culture with a definition

 

[Fruitbat]

Karma is poorly understood in the spiritually young western culture. Its just a catchphrase in our culture with a definition

Like irony. Most folks don't know what it means.

 

[Fruitbat]

Karma, it it's original definiton, makes life a whole lot easier to deal with.

Ask a buddhist/hindu cripple how they feel about it, they may reply "it is my karma"

Western thought rallies against this and crys foul.

No. Steven Hawking is a cripple yet this has made him far more famous than if he was a normal guy. A cripple does not feel the fear of aging as do we. He doesn't know the pain of aging in the same way.

A beautiful women or man's karma to lead that life also leads them to many more incidents where they must cause pain to many, because they must chose one. A king's karma is to have all he wants, but to be imprioned in his position. Never knowing the joy of a simple stroll in the crowd.

 

[guru1000]

Karma is often misunderstood, as how could a "villain" have such a "great" life some proclaim. This logic is flawed for two reasons:

1) How do you know how "great" the villian's life is? Did you experience all his trials and tribulations to be in his shoes?

2) The corporeal existence is transient, and the energy within the corporeal continues to dwell in other corporealities a/k/a past lives. How do you know what the "villain" experienced in his past lives in relation to what he manfested today?

Your thoughts are energy. Think with stress and you will will create a physical hormone called cortisol. The simplest matter broken beyond the quark is energy and is subject to the observer effect, that is, it does not operate by causation, but rather capriciously by the observer. All matter is energy. Energy responds to energy. This is "karma."

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

The golden rule (don't do to others what you wouldn't want them doing to you) is a good idea, but it's flawed. It appeals to empathy, if you don't like people punching you then don't do it to others. The one big flaw is when you'd want someone to do something to you, but they don't want you doing it to them. A great example is if you're extremely desperate for sex, there's little more you'd want than for a woman to just fvck you. According to the golden rule it would then be acceptable to throw yourself over one and fvck her, but that's called rape. The golden rule ignores what the other person don't want and assumes everyone would like what you'd like.

It's not just a matter of being true or not regarding concepts like these. It's a matter of trying to understand why the concept exists, what is really meant by it. Most people don't take careful philosophical consideration when analyzing it, thus these concepts are often misunderstood to mean something they do not.

@Fruitbat that's interesting, I did not know the Sanskrit meaning of it. So many Sanskrit words are misunderstood to the point they appear mystical, but they often refer to very mundane understandings already existent in our own language. I don't think karma is that badly misunderstood though, bad actions do in many cases lead to bad results, people just got to erase the word "always" when talking about these things.

I find it interesting that you've framed the golden rule in the negative when it is actually in the positive - "Do to others what you want them to do to you".

I think it is connected to 'love your neighbor as yourself'. The qualification of 'love your neighbour' with 'as yourself' is interesting. This is all open to interpretation/ exegesis no doubt, but my reading of it is that the other becomes a unique self just like your self. It obliterates the ego... the false self-consciousness of self

 

[Fruitbat]

I find it interesting that you've framed the golden rule in the negative when it is actually in the positive - "Do to others what you want them to do to you".

I think it is connected to 'love your neighbor as yourself'. The qualification of 'love your neighbour' with 'as yourself' is interesting. This is all open to interpretation/ exegesis no doubt, but my reading of it is that the other becomes a unique self just like your self. It obliterates the ego... the false self-consciousness of self

Yeah this has me thinking too.

Genuinely, what you want and what you need are two different things.

What you want and what others want are different things.

So many women I dated or spoke with kept telling me about how good their job is, how many cool hobbies they have, how driven they are. I had no shame in telling them that doesn't interest men, at least, not me. I don't want to ride side car in some woman's interests.

Similarly, I find myself falling into the trap of deepening connections with women and treating them well wins them. It doesn't. The above wins them.

Some people actually enjoy being mistreated. Others don't. It's a very hard thing to define but a very interesting topic.

 

[Serenity]

Thanks Grewd, but the notion of "do unto others" and the golden rule, and the notion that if you punch someone, you may get punched, these aren't really karmic.

Let me clarify instead, I talk about the golden rule because OP mentioned it. I wasn't putting it into relation with karma, I was replying to to separate parts of his post.

I find it interesting that you've framed the golden rule in the negative when it is actually in the positive - "Do to others what you want them to do to you".

Yeah I was just taking it from the top of my head while tired, it makes little difference though. My example is still valid and the golden rule is flawed in that way.

 

[Bible_Belt]

Eventually, science will probably find karma on a sub-atomic level.

 

[That_dude]

I truly believe in karma. People thinking there getting away with chit will eventually pay the piper bigtime. What goes around comes around trust that