Philando Castile's Murderer Gets Away

[sazc]

Well first he says "don't reach for it then" then several times he says "don't pull it out".

Does this mean he was fishing for an object? Did he have it holstered? Was it in a jacket pocket?

It seems like Castile was fishing for something. I'm pretty sure I caught Castile replying to the officer "I'm not reaching for it" (the gun) the problem is that the police are trained to ignore what people say but keep a sharp eye on what they are doing, especially if they are not being compliant. It seems as if the officer feels Castile wasn't complying AND was actively reaching for an unknown object. When you throw a gun into that mix, it's a no bueno sitch

 

[Tenacity]

2. I am only looking at the video to make my determination. Since you are saying "case" I assume you are talking about the entirety of the court case and proceedings and not just the video as I have done?

3. Based on the video we have there is no indication the driver does or does not have his hands in his pocket. So I assume you have other information which clearly states he had his hand in his pocket the entire time?

When I say "case", I'm talking about all of the facts on the table....including the video (both of them), along with the testimonies of both the Officer and Diamond Reynolds.

Follow me Danger......during his account of the events, the Officer makes the following statements:

- He said there was a robbery in the area and Castile looked similar to the description of the robber based solely on having a big nose and being black. Nothing else.

- The Officer said he smelled weed in the car and it was later revealed that both Castile and Diamond had been smoking weed (Diamond said this during one of her testimonies). So Castile and Diamond were high, which would slow down anybody's reaction to things, making it almost impossible to fully react within 3 seconds of anything (which is why they should not have been driving in the first place, they should have been arrested for driving under the influence).

- The Officer said during the moments he was telling Castile not to grab it/reach for it, Castile had his hand in or near his pocket with a grip that the Officer felt was "too large for a wallet". Based on that "grip size" and his hand being in or near his pocket, the Officer assumed he was grabbing for the gun. But the Officer never seen the gun.

Danger, those are all statements the Officer made. Based on those statements and the dashcam video, the only logical and reasonable conclusion is that the Officer jumped the gun (no pun intended), believing Castile was a potential thug/criminal with a gun, about to use said gun, and he let off rounds in Castile before Castile could "let off rounds in him".

If the Officer had waited, maybe 10 more seconds.....we wouldn't be discussing this right now.

This case sends a very dangerous message to everybody in America. A Cop can shoot you within 3 seconds of not complying to a command, even if you are in the act of complying with it, but haven't completely finished the "comply".

For example, Danger if I already have my hands in my pocket and you say, "TENACITY, don't grab for it!" I would say, "I'm not grabbing for it (like Castile did)"....while I slowly pull my hand BACK out of my pocket.......but in the process of pulling my hand back out....you shoot me.

It was manslaughter Danger. The Cop fvcked up. It's why he was whining and bytching after he shot him, not only was he improperly trained, terrified of the person he was policing, but he knew damn well he jumped the gun (no pun intended).

 

[Tenacity]

It seems like Castile was fishing for something. I'm pretty sure I caught Castile replying to the officer "I'm not reaching for it" (the gun) the problem is that the police are trained to ignore what people say but keep a sharp eye on what they are doing, especially if they are not being compliant. It seems as if the officer feels Castile wasn't complying AND was actively reaching for an unknown object. When you throw a gun into that mix, it's a no bueno sitch

You keep using phrases of "you guess" and "it seems". If you are going to make your argument SAZC, you should base it on actual facts of the case, not what your personal opinions are. Every one of my arguments are based on actual video coverage or statements made by the Officer and Diamond Reynolds, the only two main witnesses in the case (that are alive).

 

[Tenacity]

2. We very much disagree on the time. It is 5.5 seconds, not 3.

Okay, let's go with 5.5 seconds then Danger, that's still not enough time to comply. It looked under 4 seconds to me

3. The rest are your rendition of what the officer said. Forgive me if I would rather judge on his actual testimony.

4. I will look up factual information on the case and give you my thoughts.

Wait a minute. You just spent pages arguing my stances and you haven't even examined all of the facts, statements, testimonies, and video coverage of this case? So all of this time Danger, you just ASSUMED Castile was guilty even though you had not done proper research on the case? Why would you just assume Castile was guilty and "did something wrong" if you didn't completely exam all of the evidence related to the case Danger?

 

[Bokanovsky]

Situations like this are never black and white (no pun intended). There are many factors that have or could have contributed to this tragedy. On the one hand, you have blacks who are, rightly or wrongly, paranoid about being shot by cops. On the other hand, you've got cops who are paranoid about being shot by blacks, especially in light of the recent spade of attacks on police officers and general anti-cop hysteria promoted by the likes of BLM. On top of that background, you've got a confusing situation where the driver announces that he has a gun and then appears to reach for it even though the officer is repeatedly warning him not to do it.

If you watch the dash cam video linked below, it's pretty clear that the officer thought that Castile was reaching for his gun.

http://wnep.com/2017/06/21/philando-castile-shooting-dashcam-video-shows-rapid-event/

The traffic stop was very amicable at first. Castile was pulled over for a non-functioning taillight. He was asked to produce his driver's license and registration. At that point, there was no indication that the police were going to search his vehicle, so I'm not sure why Castille felt the need to announce he had a firearm. Perhaps he was being overly cautious. When Castile announces that he has a firearm, the officer calmly tells him not to pull it out. Castile starts reach out for something. The officers yells at him not to pull out the gun. Castille continues to reach out for something. At that point, the officer only has a fraction of a second to repsond. A pretty tough spot to be in.

 

[sazc]

You keep using phrases of "you guess" and "it seems". If you are going to make your argument SAZC, you should base it on actual facts of the case, not what your personal opinions are. Every one of my arguments are based on actual video coverage or statements made by the Officer and Diamond Reynolds, the only two witnesses in the case (that are alive).

The officer was aquitted, that is a FACT that you seem to be ignoring.

I use those phrases because I have way more humility than to present MY interpretation of the video as FACT.

I'm surprised that you believe you are an expert and an authority on video interpretation, on being able to make a final decision based on the information you read and personally interpret. You keep telling everyone exactly what DID happen. You present this as FACT, and then jump on anyone who doesn't agree with your fact. The TRUTH is that this is really only your interpretation. And your interpretation is as baised as mine is. And if you give no merit to that statement then it shows me that you are fooling yourself.

I have humility. I don't NEED anyone to agree with me. I feel good about what I saw, my evaluation/interpretation of it, and how I explained myself here. I would never force my views on anyone and/or argue incessantly with them when they disagree. I've risen above that needful place in my life.

 

[Tenacity]

He was asked to produce his driver's license and registration. At that point, there was no indication that the police were going to search his vehicle, so I'm not sure why Castille felt the need to announce he had a firearm.

Because the gun was in his pocket Sir. While he was reaching in his pocket to pull out the items needed (license, insurance, etc) the gun was in the pocket where the rest of the items were. Plus being black, it's always important to tell Cops you have a gun on you, you don't want any surprises. Castile was doing what he was supposed to do.

When Castile announces that he has a firearm, the officer calmly tells him not to pull it out. Castile starts reach out for something. The officers yells at him not to pull out the gun. Castille continues to reach out for something. At that point, the officer only has a fraction of a second to repsond. A pretty tough spot to be in.

Nooooooo. You guys are being irresponsible by participating in this discussion, without looking at all of the testimonies and statements made in the case. I've already told you guys, the OFFICER said Castile already had his hands in his pocket BEFORE the command, not AFTER. It was the pocket where Castile's remaining items were for the traffic stop. When the officer says, "don't reach for it".......Castile says, "I'm not reaching for it".....and the Officer lets off 7 shots. He didn't give the man time to pull his hand BACK out of his pocket.

That's not my opinion, that's not my guess........that's the FACTS of the case based on the statements made by the Officer and Diamond Reynolds combined.

 

[Tenacity]

The officer was aquitted, that is a FACT that you seem to be ignoring.

What does that supposed to mean SAZC? That doesn't mean the Jury was correct! That's the purpose of this debate.

 

[Tenacity]

I counted the seconds with a clock. It was 5.5.

And I haven't spent pages doing anything other than giving you my thoughts based on the video, which I said multiple times. The fact you are only NOW saying something about it tells me you have only been replying and not reading what I said.

I assume people give their THOUGHTS on cases like this, after they have actually taken the time to research all of the statements, videos, and other evidence on the table.........not just provide their random thoughts.

 

[sazc]

What does that supposed to mean SAZC? That doesn't mean the Jury was correct! That's the purpose of this debate.

I completely understand the anger and how people are going to see it as another situation of police abusing their power to take a black man down, I absolutely do not deny anyone those feelings and will not try to talk them out of their feelings. This is why I use the statements that attribute my words to "I guess" and "it seems". Because not using these statements would make people feel like I wast telling them that they were wrong, and im all about you doing you, honoring your feelings, etc. It doesn't boost my ego to attempt to invalidate how you feel.

I feel good about the way I interpreted the video.

Let's be honest, this isnt a debate, it's you getting pissed off with anyone who wont agree with you, repeating your interpretation of the facts ad nauseum, and refusing to see any other point of view by simply telling everyone that they "must not have researched the case 'like you have' because they are wrong"

Thats kinda your shtick on these boards. Tenacity says "here is my opinion" people chime in and some agree and other's disagree. Opinions get expressed and Tenacity makes it a 10 page long mission to tell them they are wrong, and here is why, and continue to tell them they are wrong because (it seems like) tenacity cant be wrong.

It's cool brother, you be you, that's just what I see.

 

[Bokanovsky]

Because the gun was in his pocket Sir. While he was reaching in his pocket to pull out the items needed (license, insurance, etc) the gun was in the pocket where the rest of the items were. Plus being black, it's always important to tell Cops you have a gun on you, you don't want any surprises. Castile was doing what he was supposed to do.

Are you saying that he had his wallet and his gun in the same pocket? Is this an established fact or just an assumption? Seems unlikely that both items would fit in the same pocket. And even if they could fit, it would be pretty dumb to carry your gun in the same pocket as your wallet. That's a negligent discharge just waiting to happen.

 

[sazc]

I assume people give their THOUGHTS on cases like this, after they have actually taken the time to research all of the statements, videos, and other evidence on the table.........not just provide their random thoughts.

But it doesn't really matter if people have researched the situation 'like you have' because there would always be someone who would STILL have a differing opinion and you would still continue to try to invalidate it.

 

[sazc]

Are you saying that he had his wallet and his gun in the same pocket? Is this an established fact or just an assumption? Seems unlikely that both items would fit in the same pocket. And even if they could fit, it would be pretty dumb to carry your gun in the same pocket as your wallet. That's a negligent discharge just waiting to happen.

I havent been able to find where Catiles gun was in the car. If you know where it was for a fact @Tenacity post that link

 

[sazc]

Danger, are guns outlawed in the United States? Is it illegal to carry a gun to the point where announcing you have one, creates an immediate threat? Explain how that makes any sense whatsoever?

YES announcing you have a gun creates an immediate threat in the majority of situations. I already explained that in terms of the police, are you not reading my posts?

I dont care if you are white, black or asian, you walk into a room that I am in, announce you have a gun and my eyes WILL be on you at all times. In fact, I will probably leave your presence.

If the Cop is threatened by a black man with a gun, why is he a Cop? There's something called the 2nd Amendment where people can carry around GUNS, you ever hear of it?

Officers of the law consider anyone with a gun a threat, period. Race has nothing to do with it.

And no matter if it was 3 seconds or 5 seconds, if Castile's hand was already in his pocket when the cop said don't reach for it (and the Cop verified this when he said the grip of his hand was wider than a wallet), that's TOO SHORT of a time to comply with a command of "don't reach for it, let me see your hands".

"that's TOO SHORT of a time to comply with a command " - this is your OPINION....like it or not, that is exactly what it is. I sure as hell could stop moving, be completely still and ask "what would you like me to do officer?" within 3-5 seconds. Anyone could.

No like @sazc I think you are failing to understand all of the details of the case.

Following the incident, the Jack A.ss Officer says he thought Castile resembled a robbery suspect due to having a similar "nose size". When I state that at the moment of pulling him over (before even getting out of the car to approach Castile at the window) the Officer already BELIEVED Castile to be one of those "N-Words up to no good", I wasn't incorrect. He believed he was a typical N-Word/Thug at the moment of approaching the car.

The officer was quoted in the press saying "this ****** was up to no good"? or that is your OPINION of his mindset?

Once he approaches the car and Castile says I have a "gun on me", that's why you have the immediate reaction of the Cop to SHOOT.......

We have established that between 3 and 5.5 seconds elapsed before he shoots

because he already seen Castile as this potential bad thug in the first place.

Again, this is your OPINION based on your own biased interpretation of the events

Again, this isn't my opinion, these are the FACTS in the case Danger.

Nope, See statement above

SURELY you do realize that your stated "facts" are really only your interpretation and presumption of the situation. You, personally, simply cannot assume or attribute thoughts and feelings to the officer, that's erroneous thinking....

 

[Tenacity]

After watching @sazc and @Danger give these disingenuous a.ss responses........now I see why some of the other black people on this forum contribute some of you guys as racists.

I've broken down the facts, statements, videos, and testimonies multiple times. And you guys are responding with complete B.S. @EyeBRollin said this was exactly what you guys were going to do.

I'm very disappointed in you guys right now.

 

[Tenacity]

Again, let's not get personal Tenacity. I am only giving you my perspective from the video. Unfortunately I cannot find any clean evidence from the case, just news sites telling me what to think.

I did manage to get some video from his girlfriend off of youtube, and it looks like his gun isn't in his pocket at all.

View attachment 791

Omg. Here's the full video, you might have to log into Gmail to see it. Watch this video (including the first 2 minutes which shows Castile shot up) and you TELL ME where you see a gun at on his lap.

I'll wait.....

 

[sazc]

After watching @sazc and @Danger give these disingenuous a.ss responses........now I see why some of the other black people on this forum contribute some of you guys as racists.

I've broken down the facts, statements, videos, and testimonies multiple times. And you guys are responding with complete B.S. @EyeBRollin said this was exactly what you guys were going to do.

I'm very disappointed in you guys right now.

Now you are trying to trigger us by calling us racists!?

Again, you don't debate anything, your goal is to argue. It's almost like you thrive off of attention and adrenaline

Ov-ah and out

 

[Tenacity]

Sure, at 57 seconds in. You can see it from 55 seconds to the 1 minute mark. What is that? It looks like a gun to me.

During the trial, you had people like Officer Juan Toran (gave Castile CPR) that said the gun was still in his right pocket while he was being loaded into the paramedics. You also had a firefighter Eric Torgerson from the scene that also said the gun was still in his pocket and it had to be retrieved by an officer while he was being loaded into the paramedics.

On the video dashcam, the Officer who shot Castile said he didn't know where the gun was, he never seen it. All he knew is that his hands were still in his pocket with a grip that was "wider than what a wallet's grip should be".

All of this is evidence related to the case. I'm done discussing this shyt. If you guys aren't going to take the damn time to research the case, evidence, testimonies, statements, etc., THEN formulate your opinion, then I'm literally arguing with someone that is uninformed (which is a waste of my time).

Now when you @Danger and @sazc get done researching the case, I'll continue..........

 

[Tenacity]

Now you are trying to trigger us by calling us racists!?

I didn't say you were racists, I said I'm seeing how a lot of black guys on this forum prescribe that label to you guys, due to you being clearly disingenuous as fvck.

 

[sazc]

I didn't say you were racists, I said I'm seeing how a lot of black guys on this forum prescribe that label to you guys, due to you being clearly disingenuous as fvck.

Again, another attempt to trigger. Mature conversations don't contain personal attacks.