Philando Castile's Murderer Gets Away

[sazc]

@Tenacity, no, Castile says "I have a gun" and then very soon after that, almost instantly, you hear the officer instruct Castille, multiple times, to not reach for the gun and then he shoots. He asked for compliance 3 times. Whatever Castille was doing he considered threatening. Castille should have complied immediately by hopefully saying "ok", ceasing whatever motion he was doing, spreading his fingers and slowly raising his hands away from wherever they were going.

Of course, wouldda, shouldda, couldda.

The officer doesnt sound calm cool and collected to me. IMO he stopped being calm right after Castille said he had a gun, and never got back to calm.

If only we knew exactly what Castille hands were doing in that vehicle. What did his girlfriend say he was doing? what did she say he was reaching for while the cop was screaming?

Honestly, I have my doubts too. The only thing I have to go on is my knowledge of what my CHL training taught me and my knowledge of how to behave with an officer. IMO anythng less than hands on steering wheel, and absolute communication of my intended behavior to the officer, is begging for trouble. this means I say "I am going to go in my purse and get my license out of my wallet now" and I put my purse on my lap and allow them to watch me do that. Unfortunately there are people in this world who think they dont need to comply and respect, and that is where issues arise.

 

[Tenacity]

@Tenacity, no, Castile says "I have a gun" and then very soon after that, almost instantly, you hear the officer instruct Castille, multiple times, to not reach for the gun and then he shoots.

Within 3 seconds. The Officer says "okay you have a gun, don't reach for it.....don't reach for it!! (SHOT, SHOT, SHOT, SHOT, SHOT, SHOT)"

Whatever Castille was doing he considered threatening.

No, he was a black man that lived in the hood, that had a gun on him. THAT right there in and of itself was the "threat" that the jack a.ss Officer felt.

Castille should have complied immediately by hopefully saying "ok", ceasing whatever motion he was doing, spreading his fingers and slowly raising his hands away from wherever they were going.

Watch the video again SAZC. Castile clearly shouts that he's not reaching for it! All of this goes down in 3 seconds SAZC, how is the man supposed to have time to spread his fingers, slowly raise his hands, or do any of these other procedures you are listing when he wasn't afforded the time nor opportunity to do so??

If only we knew exactly what Castille hands were doing in that vehicle. What did his girlfriend say he was doing?

She said he sags his pants, so he was still in the process of reaching for the remaining items (ID, insurance, registration) that the Officer TOLD him to pull out......in the process of reaching for them Castile says, "So Officer, just so you know I have a Gun.".....Officer Jack-Ass within 3 seconds says, "okay you have a gun, don't reach for it.....don't reach for it!! (SHOT, SHOT, SHOT, SHOT, SHOT, SHOT)"

The Man didn't have time to pull his hands out of his pocket, the man didn't have time to pull out a Gun license, the Man didn't have time to put his hands back on the steering wheel, the Man didn't have time to do SHYT.

 

[sazc]

She said Castile had been shot while reaching for his ID after letting the officer know he had a firearm.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...id-about-the-shooting/?utm_term=.b9bdcb2da6db

 

[sazc]

Within 3 seconds. The Officer says "okay you have a gun, don't reach for it.....don't reach for it!!

Castillo should have stopped moving on the first instruction

No, he was a black man that lived in the hood, that had a gun on him. THAT right there in and of itself was the "threat" that the jack a.ss Officer felt.

NO, as soon as I tell an officer that I have a gun in my vehicle his hand goes directly to his pistol because I am now a threat. He doesnt know if I am a white, female, well groomed murderer or not, he is going to protect his life first. IF I continued to move my hands 'somewhere' in my vehicle right after I told the officer this I would expect to have a pistol in my face and some loud, harsh words being said to me, just like what happened to Castille.

Watch the video again SAZC. Castile clearly shouts that he's not reaching for it! All of this goes down in 3 seconds SAZC, how is the man supposed to have time to spread his fingers, slowly raise his hands, or do any of these other procedures you are listing when he wasn't afforded the time nor opportunity to do so??

he should have ceased all motion right after the fist direction to not reach for the gun

She said he sags his pants, so he was still in the process of reaching for the remaining items (ID, insurance, registration) that the Officer TOLD him to pull out......in the process of reaching for them Castile says, "So Officer, just so you know I have a Gun.".....Officer Jack-Ass within 3 seconds says, "okay you have a gun, don't reach for it.....don't reach for it!! (SHOT, SHOT, SHOT, SHOT, SHOT, SHOT)"

The Man didn't have time to pull his hands out of his pocket, the man didn't have time to pull out a Gun license, the Man didn't have time to put his hands back on the steering wheel, the Man didn't have time to do SHYT.

Castillo should have known better, IMO. Being a firearm carrier, he very well should have anticipated that the officer would have perceived the firearm as a threat, and he needed to be very careful about how this played out.

Shoe on the other foot. How come Castille didn't say to himself "I'm in the hood, I'm being stopped, and I am legally carrying a firearm, I need to play this on point"? That is part of being a responsible gun owner. It goes both ways.

Do I see moments where things could have been handled differently on both ends? Absolutely. But I cant look at that video and absolve either of them. This does not appear to be a matter of correct compliance (as I would have played it) on Castillos part, and/or simply a racist and/or trigger happy cop.

IDK I take the idea of being stopped with a gun in my car VERY seriously. I knw that it is always erroneous to believe that people should know/perceive things the way you (I) do, so I cant say Castille 'should have' done anything. What i can say is that it appears that officer was in fear for his life. Did he 'go there' (fear) really quickly? Maybe. But neither of us were there.

We are also interpreting the situation based on our own life experiences, which were extraordinarily different, from what I can gather. So we'll probably never see totally eye to eye on this.

 

[Sho-No-Luv]

Wait, so now you get what some of the fellow brothers on this forum been saying to you for over a year? That sometimes doing everything right doesn't matter if your skin is the wrong color?

Would you look at that?!

Not going to get into the deflection some people will use to justify the cop, because it's all baked in bull****. Bottom line is this guy did everything "right" and was killed by the cop in front his child. And some people in this country are too ****ed up to admit that the cop could actually have made a serious mistake.

Another day, another black man killed for no reason. Shrugs.

BINGO, BANGO!!!! TIMES 100!!

 

[Von]

Why it only happens in the USA?

And than people say: "More Gun is safer"

And yet always another shooting.
USA police are really bad train and often are ex-soldiers so they shoot on a whimp

 

[EyeBRollin]

She said he sags his pants, so he was still in the process of reaching for the remaining items (ID, insurance, registration) that the Officer TOLD him to pull out......in the process of reaching for them Castile says, "So Officer, just so you know I have a Gun.".....Officer Jack-Ass within 3 seconds says, "okay you have a gun, don't reach for it.....don't reach for it!! (SHOT, SHOT, SHOT, SHOT, SHOT, SHOT)"

The Man didn't have time to pull his hands out of his pocket, the man didn't have time to pull out a Gun license, the Man didn't have time to put his hands back on the steering wheel, the Man didn't have time to do SHYT.

Now that we've established that you've (sort of) seen the light, I'll caution you that explaining to some folks why the police could be wrong to kill an innocent black man is a waste of time and breath.

Sazc will put you through mental gymnastics about how Castile should have done x,y, and z. Bottom line, a cop could walk up to an unarmed black man on video with both hands up, point the gun squarely at his forehand, blow his brains out and it would still be something the black guy did wrong. Some people simply can't accept the state ever being wrong for killing a black man.

 

[Sho-No-Luv]

Now that we've established that you've (sort of) seen the light, I'll caution you that explaining to some folks why the police could be wrong to kill an innocent black man is a waste of time and breath.

Sazc will put you through mental gymnastics about how Castile should have done x,y, and z. Bottom line, a cop could walk up to an unarmed black man on video with both hands up, point the gun squarely at his forehand, blow his brains out and it would still be something the black guy did wrong. Some people simply can't accept the state ever being wrong for killing a black man.

You are correct AGAIN as usual which is why I normally don't even try. This shiit is beyond obvious, and even Stevie wonder could see it..

 

[Trunks]

Castillo should have known better, IMO. Being a firearm carrier, he very well should have anticipated that the officer would have perceived the firearm as a threat, and he needed to be very careful about how this played out.

Shoe on the other foot. How come Castille didn't say to himself "I'm in the hood, I'm being stopped, and I am legally carrying a firearm, I need to play this on point"? That is part of being a responsible gun owner. It goes both ways.

Sure, but at the end of the day, it was the cop who KILLED the guy based on an imagined threat. This logic is similar to saying a woman shares in the blame for being raped if she was wearing a skirt.

 

[sazc]

Sure, but at the end of the day, it was the cop who KILLED the guy based on an imagined threat. This logic is similar to saying a woman shares in the blame for being raped if she was wearing a skirt.

Listen, I dont know you, and I dont know your life experiences, and i certainly will not discount your interpretation of the situation. I can only speak from my own experiences.

I wont pretend to know what the CHL training is for other states. All I can say is that, when I received my CHL training and license, the instructor did a complete number on me (the class) as to how I was to act if I was ever pulled over.

If your position is that this was not your instruction, or maybe not his instruction, then a good life was wasted.

Please coach your children on this matter. They are good souls and should not suffer a life cut short because their role models forgot to coach them.

 

[sazc]

Now that we've established that you've (sort of) seen the light, I'll caution you that explaining to some folks why the police could be wrong to kill an innocent black man is a waste of time and breath.

Sazc will put you through mental gymnastics about how Castile should have done x,y, and z. Bottom line, a cop could walk up to an unarmed black man on video with both hands up, point the gun squarely at his forehand, blow his brains out and it would still be something the black guy did wrong. Some people simply can't accept the state ever being wrong for killing a black man.

LMAO nice how you didnt tag me

I appreciate the head nod that I will put ppl thru mental gymnasitcs, TYVM! #woot!

I cant say, I dont know, what went down in this situation. I welcome YOU @EyeBRollin, I mean @Tenacity, to show me the video where this man had his HANDS UP! show me, please show me.

I wont say that this is, or is not, a cop gone wrong. You dont know that for certain, and neither do I. I can only speak from my own personal experiences, as you can.

Regardless, an absolute waste of life and a shame.

 

[Tenacity]

I wont pretend to know what the CHL training is for other states. All I can say is that, when I received my CHL training and license, the instructor did a complete number on me (the class) as to how I was to act if I was ever pulled over.

If your position is that this was not your instruction, or maybe not his instruction, then a good life was wasted.

Please coach your children on this matter. They are good souls and should not suffer a life cut short because their role models forgot to coach them.

SAZC, once again, go and watch the VIDEO. Watch it 3 more times if you have to. In order for you to display your CHL "training" on what to do when you have a gun, you have to be afforded the opportunity, right? Castile had no opportunity to follow whatever "steps" you are talking about.

He says he has a gun in the car and 3 seconds later shots are fired. How can you justify this as anything other than a bad shoot? NOW, if Castile says "Oh I have a gun".......and the Cop says okay STOP, put your hands on the steering wheel, don't move, I have to see where the gun is, etc." that would be the proper way to respond to this.

And SAZC you're a white woman. The chances that you telling this Officer you are carrying a gun and he immediately seeing you as a THREAT, would be probably slim to none.

Now that we've established that you've (sort of) seen the light, I'll caution you that explaining to some folks why the police could be wrong to kill an innocent black man is a waste of time and breath.

Sazc will put you through mental gymnastics about how Castile should have done x,y, and z. Bottom line, a cop could walk up to an unarmed black man on video with both hands up, point the gun squarely at his forehand, blow his brains out and it would still be something the black guy did wrong. Some people simply can't accept the state ever being wrong for killing a black man.

Yes, but you know that I'm a Moderate. The Far Left sees every single one of these cases as the Cops were bad and the Far Right sees every single one of these cases as the Individual "must have been up to no good".

I look at each case on its merit. This is one of those cases where the Cop is clearly, utterly, and without a shadow of a fvcking doubt WRONG. It was a bad shoot. There's no other way to call this.

 

[EyeBRollin]

LMAO nice how you didnt tag me

I appreciate the head nod that I will put ppl thru mental gymnasitcs, TYVM! #woot!

I cant say, I dont know, what went down in this situation. I welcome YOU @EyeBRollin, I mean @Tenacity, to show me the video where this man had his HANDS UP! show me, please show me.

I wont say that this is, or is not, a cop gone wrong. You dont know that for certain, and neither do I. I can only speak from my own personal experiences, as you can.

You just proved my point. No matter what, you'll bury your head. I saw the video and my eyes and ears work. This cop ****ed up And everyone knows it. Why can't you just say the cop made a mistake?

Regardless, an absolute waste of life and a shame.

Unacceptable. But it's just another black guy so who cares?

 

[Bible_Belt]

She's right though, that the guy had to do something to make the cop shoot him. I think he was trying to pull the gun out to show the cop that he was not going to shoot him with it. He died because he was too slow to respond to commands in a stressful situation. If I was on that jury, I would have voted in favor of the manslaughter conviction, but the victim's poor decisions are the reason that it is manslaughter and not murder.

 

[Tenacity]

She's right though, that the guy had to do something to make the cop shoot him.

The Officer himself said he had no idea exactly where the gun was at the time he starting shooting and he THOUGHT he was reaching for it.

I've already detailed to you guys why the Cop felt "threatened". Castile was a black guy, in the hood, with a beat up car, that smelled like weed. At THAT moment the Officer labeled him as "one of those thug N-Words" that was most likely up to "no good". Then once Castile says he had a gun, the Cop now has an image of a "thug N-Word with a gun" and immediately starts letting off rounds.

Let's take this same situation, but remove Castile, his GF, and the kid out of the car and let's put SAZC in it. A white woman. Same hood, same beat up car, same weed smell in it. The Officer would label SAZC as just a poor trailor park "hick" that really isn't out to hurt anybody, but she might potentially be an idiot. If SAZC then says she has a gun, I BET you that the Cop would have been more "patience" with her. He would have told her not to reach for it as well, but I GUARANTEE YOU he would not have fired shots 3 seconds later. He would have gave her the opportunity to put her hands up on the steering wheel, maybe exit the vehicle, etc.

He died because he was too slow to respond to commands in a stressful situation.

It's unbelievable why you guys are expecting someone to respond to a command within 3 seconds. If my HAND is already in my pocket Bible Belt, it will take more than 3 seconds for me to REMOVE IT. The Officer said on the video that Castile's hand was in his pocket with a "grip" that seemed larger than what a "wallet size grip would be". He didn't have time to even remove his hands. Again.....3 seconds. Watch the video again.

If I was on that jury, I would have voted in favor of the manslaughter conviction, but the victim's poor decisions are the reason that it is manslaughter and not murder.

No. It's manslaughter because there was no prior intent on the Officer to walk up and shoot him. The shooting took place after certain situations transpired. The question becomes was the shooting justified? NO it was not.

Again these aren't my opinions, we have a video. You can watch the video, see the entire altercation and the speed at which the rounds were let off. From this, you add in logic and reasoning.

He's guilty of manslaughter. He assumed Castile was another one of those thug N-words up to no good carrying around a gun and about to use it on the Cop. So the Cop decided to shoot first, the problem is, Castile never attempted to shoot him and based on the Officer's OWN WORDS, he NEVER seen Castile's gun. It's Manslaughter, it was a mis-calculated bad shoot.......LOCK HIM UP.

 

[Bible_Belt]

Here's what happened the last time I got pulled over: http://www.sosuave.net/forum/threads/tips-on-dealing-with-law.157062/#post-2356150

 

[Tenacity]

1. If a cop tells a man to stop, and he doesn't, and he knows he has a gun, the cop has reason to believe his life is in danger. This is a fact.

3. Three seconds IS A LONG TIME to not be complying while reaching for a gun. You keep saying three seconds like it is a valid defense for your point of view, when in reality it is working against you here.

4. It is nearly double that time, at 5.5 seconds, not three seconds. Additionally the cop told him THREE times during that 5.5 seconds to not reach for it, to not pull it out.

Danger, are guns outlawed in the United States? Is it illegal to carry a gun to the point where announcing you have one, creates an immediate threat? Explain how that makes any sense whatsoever? If the Cop is threatened by a black man with a gun, why is he a Cop? There's something called the 2nd Amendment where people can carry around GUNS, you ever hear of it?

And no matter if it was 3 seconds or 5 seconds, if Castile's hand was already in his pocket when the cop said don't reach for it (and the Cop verified this when he said the grip of his hand was wider than a wallet), that's TOO SHORT of a time to comply with a command of "don't reach for it, let me see your hands".

2. You are being extremely racist by declaring what this cop had in his mind regarding race.

No like @sazc I think you are failing to understand all of the details of the case.

Following the incident, the Jack A.ss Officer says he thought Castile resembled a robbery suspect due to having a similar "nose size". When I state that at the moment of pulling him over (before even getting out of the car to approach Castile at the window) the Officer already BELIEVED Castile to be one of those "N-Words up to no good", I wasn't incorrect. He believed he was a typical N-Word/Thug at the moment of approaching the car.

Once he approaches the car and Castile says I have a "gun on me", that's why you have the immediate reaction of the Cop to SHOOT.......because he already seen Castile as this potential bad thug in the first place.

Again, this isn't my opinion, these are the FACTS in the case Danger.

Due to the negative stereotype of black N-Word thugs, being extremely dangerous, there's no patience given with black men who fit these stereotypes, especially when you think they just were in a robbery AND he announces to you he has a gun.

It's manslaughter. The Cop didn't walk up intentionally trying to kill him, but he killed him in a mis-calculated fashion due to thinking he was somebody that he wasn't. Castile didn't DO anything to create a threat, the threat came from the Cop's own IMAGINATION. That's why this is manslaughter.

 

[sazc]

@Tenacity I have responded to all of your points in my prior posts and I stand by what I said. That is how I feel.

I appreciate all of your input (everyone's), words and thoughts. It's always good to get multiple perspectives, from different people, in order to be able to examine a situation from multiple dimensions. That's how you learn, grow and open your mind.

I'm still on page 2 at the moment but dont tear each other apart over this, eh?

 

[Tenacity]

1. Right to carry is a non sequitor here. And you are starting to get a bit combative here with statements like "you ever hear of the second amendment?" Let's keep the discussion unemotional and not personal.

I am keeping all emotions out of it. Everybody on this forum knows I'm a Moderate, I don't get caught up in the Far Left shyt where everything is the fault of some evil white group, nor the Far Right shyt like every single black person is a N-Word/Thug.

I look at it on its merits. You have stupid black people out here and you have stupid Cops out here. You have an out of control black community full of the thug culture element, and you have Cops that are improperly trained and TERRIFIED of the people they are policing in these areas. When you combined these two aspects, all you get is trouble, trouble, and more trouble.

IF you are looking at this case on the merits, there's no way in hell you can say this wasn't a bad shoot. Examine a case on the merits and all facts, logic, data, and video coverage that we have. When you do that, you come to the only conclusion that this was a mis-calculated shoot and the Cop should get a manslaughter conviction.

2. I am only going by the video. Did the guy already have his hand in his pocket when he was pulled over? Or did he have his hand reaching for the gun (wherever that may be) as the video suggests?

Based on all of video and information we have. When the Officer gets to the window you see Castile hand him something (could have been insurance, ID and or registration), but he still had his hand in his pocket reaching for the remaining portions of the documentation needed. WHILE his hand was in his pocket, he says he has a gun. The Officer (not knowing what the fvck he was reaching for) says "well, don't reach for it" and immediately starts SHOOTING.

That's irresponsible, that's a bad shoot, and that's just fvcking crazy. The Cop is clearly improperly trained, the Cop is clearly terrified of the people he's policing, and the Cop is clearly jumping the gun.

That's manslaughter. The Cop fvcked up, he made a bad shoot.

4. So is the guy a potential suspect in some other crime? And the cop believes it may be him? If so then that only further supports the cops reaction.

Danger you can't be serious right now. You can't be.

Castile was a "suspect" in the robbery ONLY due to having a large nose, that's it. There was nothing linking him to that robbery, the car wasn't used in the robbery, nobody seen Castile do the robbery......nothing. The Cop was wrong. How can you not see this Danger?

 

[sazc]

1. When you make staements like "have you heard of the 2nd amendment", you are being incendiary and personal. I have to assume this is because you are being emotional. Please refrain from this in the future and let's keep this civil.

2. I am only looking at the video to make my determination. Since you are saying "case" I assume you are talking about the entirety of the court case and proceedings and not just the video as I have done?

3. Based on the video we have there is no indication the driver does or does not have his hands in his pocket. So I assume you have other information which clearly states he had his hand in his pocket the entire time?

In the video the officer says "don't pull it out" a few times. My guess is that Castile put his hand intro his ? To get his ? And, my interpretation based on what the offer said is, that the officer was concerned Castilo was pulling out a gun.