Monogamy or beyond? What would be your most ideal relationship set-up?

[LiveYourDream]

It has been a while since I've posted. I hope everyone's continued growth has them happy and thriving more than ever.

For for those who don't already know, please know I am woman and I come to SS to better understand men. Know that despite my best efforts to be concise on here, my female brain just doesn't write that way. My sincere apologies to your male brains that wonder when I am going to get to the point. Know I am trying. I really, really am.

Please know I am a woman who loves and cares deeply. The greater understanding of men I receive here, helps me to better understand the men I interact with and thus better honor them on all levels. I am so grateful to be able to do that. Thank you for helping me!!!

What has here me now is another request, to better understand men.

I was listening to a dialogue on youtube last night. The discussion was about how some people prefer monogamy, while others don't find monogamy natural, but more of a societal construct or a construct built upon underlying fears. Also talked about were the vows often taken, to love till death do us part. It talked about how often those (almost always), on some level, are driven by underlying levels of insecurity and the desire to have a feeling of control over that. The intent of the discussion was not to bash monogamy and neither is mine here, but to consider what is actually true for people and what would a relationship look like that honors what is most deeply true for them.

My intention is to consider and better understand love and freedom, at the highest levels, within an on-going, loving relationship (hypothetical, for me, at the moment).

If I love a man deeply and with all my heart, and if monogamy feels unnatural for some men, what is the best set-up for a loving ltr, to honor such men, in that need/desire for variety? And honor myself in the process, as well.

If relationship 'agreements' came from loving, rather than insecurity or fear, how would our ideal ltr relationships be set-up?

What kind of set-up would men prefer, for themselves, if they could set it up to work, ANY way they wanted, without judgement?

To be really clear, the scenario I am wondering about is... if as a man, you could set up a relationship with a woman you love, respect, and adore, with whom you have great fun, are incredibly attracted to her (on multiple levels), sex is fantastic, and you truly feel that you and your life are better for her presence in your life...

(I get it, perhaps she may sound like a unicorn to some, please let that go and keep playing with me on this, please...

If you could set up a ltr with her, in ANY way that YOU wanted, what design/agreements would you choose?

What relationship set-up would be most congruent with YOUR heart and desires, as a man?

She loves YOU. She wants you be true to yourself. She wants you to be happy. (She wants to be true to herself and to be happy as well.) This question is about you, as the man...

1. If you could set up your ideal on-going relationship or ltr, in ANY way you wanted, what would you design for the two of you?
2. Do you think a man and a woman, who genuinely love and care for each other, could make your-set-up work well for them?
3. What, if anything, do you think it would take for a woman to be GENUINELY happy in your desired set-up?
4. If she agreed, and you were seeing/sleeping with other women, openly or, with her consent but without her knowledge, do you think you would you loose respect for her, even subtly?
5. Do you think sleeping with other women would affect the love you feel for her?
6. Do you think sleeping with other women would affect your long term happiness with her?
7. If the frequency and quality of sex is very satisfying with your partner, how often do you think you would still have the urge to sleep with other women? How often would you follow through on it?
8. How long do you think you could remain genuinely and truly happy/satisfied, in your ideal set-up?

TL;DR If you could design it anyway you wanted, with a woman you deeply love and care for, what kind of relationship set-up, would be most true/congruent with YOUR heart and what YOU most desire?

 

[Fruitbat]

1. If you could set up your ideal on-going relationship or ltr, in ANY way you wanted, what would you design for the two of you? A monogomous relationship
2. Do you think a man and a woman, who genuinely love and care for each other, could make your-set-up work well for them? It happened more before having casual sex with anyone you like became acceptable.
3. What, if anything, do you think it would take for a woman to be GENUINELY happy in your desired set-up? What woman? Women are all different. A lot of women want Channing Tatum, anything less and they seem constantly frustrated, even if they aren't ,much themselves. Some are decent girls who want what I want. Some make mistakes.....
4. If she agreed, and you were seeing/sleeping with other women, openly or, with her consent but without her knowledge, do you think you would you loose respect for her, even subtly? Entertaining this as the idea of a "relationship" is disgusting. Yes, I would think she has no self respect and would advise her to take up prostitution if relationships can be that easy going. What hope do you have in raising children properly in this selfish world of self interest? Only if it was a medical problem would this be acceptable. I'd think a woman like this to be utterly pathetic.
5. Do you think sleeping with other women would affect the love you feel for her? Yes. I'd be like "why am I ****ing this woman when I have a woman back home I cold jepordise everything with. Have I done it? yes, but this is because I didn't have sex with my ex for like 6 months, and I would suggest this is why most men stray.
6. Do you think sleeping with other women would affect your long term happiness with her? If I did, the act of just sleeping with another woman wouldn't do anything if we became close again. If woman 2 was treating me well and GF badly, I might consider it. Women are women, the specific act of another one doesn't impact you that much.
7. If the frequency and quality of sex is very satisfying with your partner, how often do you think you would still have the urge to sleep with other women? How often would you follow through on it? Low to zero. If I was really drunk and she was really hot, maybe but not if happy. The urge to sleep with other women is something we have had since day 1. Everytime we meet a woman 20-25, generally we get that urge. The issue is, modern, vaccuous "SATC" and lad culture has normalised the ideas of sleeping around as acceptable. If we kept the old school of morals everyone would be happier.
8. How long do you think you could remain genuinely and truly happy/satisfied, in your ideal set-up? You may get bored in a long LTR but that is the deal if you want children. If no children, people can do as they wish.

The alternative and true answer to this is "I would have a massive complex of 4000 women, all 10/10, spending all day waiting for which one I pick" I would also like to be king of the world. We have to work on some basis of agreement hence we need rules of sorts.

 

[fastlife]

Welcome back LYD--long time no see. I'm going to go a little more general than your question setup.

In any relationship I form, I'd reserve the right to sleep with girls on the side--no strings attached, discreet--but she'd come first, as in, when I'm with her I'm with her. Haven't tested this arrangement longterm, but I've had two successful relationships last ~3 months a piece in this setup that both ended due to logistics--both girls had to move and I wasn't willing to adjust my life plans to accommodate that (plus, I really wasn't ready to cash out my chips yet). I'm not cool sharing if I'm emotionally investing in a girl (as opposed to casual sex, 'plate,' arrangements)--there's just a switch when I know a girl has slept with another guy that flips to where I feel nothing for her--so it'd only be open on my end. But generally that isn't a problem, since such a setup lets me keep my value high and needs low and insecure girls will filter themselves out on the front end.

This actually keeps the girls happier than they would be monogamously, I think, at least as a long term setup. 1.) It eliminates fear of cheating (jealousy is poisonous to love), 2.) It lets a girl work for my attention (which makes her feel valuable when she gets it), 3.) It allows me to love her from a place that's free of need.

Plus, a funny thing happens: If a girl's providing for me with her best sexually and emotionally, I have very little motivation to actually sleep with other girls. Very few girls at her level, and I don't particularly like slumming it. And just gaming other girls constantly displays her value by contrast--if anything I developed a much stronger respect for both girls, since I had constant points of reference for the market at large (a lot of guys cheat out of some weird fantasy that they're 'missing out'). But even then, I'd still probably desire variety at some point, especially years in and there's no way I could lie to a girl and pretend that that wouldn't be a reality at some point (even if part of me thinks I only want her forever and ever lol).

But there is the drawback that a girl would really have to trust you not to just fall in love with another girl--and I don't think most guys have enough emotional control to make this kind of setup work.

 

[zekko]

If I love a man deeply and with all my heart, and if monogamy feels unnatural for some men, what is the best set-up for a loving ltr, to honor such men, in that need/desire for variety? And honor myself in the process, as well.

Please tell me you aren't considering "sharing" some dude that you're hung up on. The old "A woman would rather share an alpha than be with a faithful beta" cliche. I could never respect a woman who would settle for this type of situation.

I have chosen to be in a monogamous relationship at this point in my life, and I'm happy with that. Won't get married, and won't have kids. It's just the reality of the times. I will admit that if I were some sort of ancient king with unlimited wealth, it might be cool to have a wife and kids plus a fleet of concubines to just play around with for variety. But then where would I find the time to get things done lol?

Seriously, in the context of modern life, I can't respect a woman who thinks no more of herself than to share some man who makes sleeping around a bigger priority than her. You have to do what you think is right for yourself, of course, but wow. I would think no more of such a woman than I would of a man who clung to a woman who slept around.

 

[Desdinova]

If I love a man deeply and with all my heart, and if monogamy feels unnatural for some men, what is the best set-up for a loving ltr, to honor such men, in that need/desire for variety? And honor myself in the process, as well.

What kind of set-up would men prefer, for themselves, if they could set it up to work, ANY way they wanted, without judgement?

I've said this before, and I'll say it again.... I think men should legally be allowed to have multiple wives. There are many great reasons for this. Here are a few:

1) It fulfils the man's desire for variety
2) If fulfils the man's desire for consistency
3) It fulfils the woman's desire for security
4) It fulfils the woman's need for a strong support system

There's a reason why men in the Bible had multiple wives... Because it worked.

 

[SteR]

I was thinking about this, as in what I wanted in terms of an 'ideal'.

I came to the conclusion that marriage is broken. But I still want what marriage encompasses ie. going through life together with someone. One thing I realised is that (as OP mentioned) a lot of people seem to think that once they're married, their partner is 'locked down'.. which as we know is complete BS. It's just a form of insecurity.

At this point in my life I'm well aware that either partner can walk at any time, but I'd rather acknowledge that and be in a relationship where both are aware of this, yet choose to stay together rather than feeling they trapped by the other.

I know monogamy gets torn to shreds on these forums, but I'm one of the few fortunate people that has parents that are still together, and clearly love each other. So it's difficult for me to read about people in all these horrendous relationships/divorces, and yet clearly see right in front of me (with my parents) that it can work.

So yea, I haven't given up on monogamy myself.. but I'm not willing to compromise on the person I go into that partnership with.

I'm also well aware that everyone is different. I used to think as men we were supposed to want to be with multiple women, but I've tried that and it doesn't work for me. But I can't be what I'm not, so c'est la vie..

 

[Fruitbat]

I've said this before, and I'll say it again.... I think men should legally be allowed to have multiple wives. There are many great reasons for this. Here are a few:

1) It fulfils the man's desire for variety
2) If fulfils the man's desire for consistency
3) It fulfils the woman's desire for security
4) It fulfils the woman's need for a strong support system

There's a reason why men in the Bible had multiple wives... Because it worked.

Let me guess, blessed with looks....how the **** does this work for the 75% of men who don't get a wife? Anarchy. Or just kill off 75% of baby boys.

You want this situation because you think you'll be the one with 4 wives.

You are free to emigrate to an islamic ****hole where they support the neandethal vision of human relationships.

 

[The Duke]

I got very close to what you are describing with my exwife as far as love, respect, great fun, attraction, and good sechs. We had all of the key elements for many years. I’ve only found one since her that has come close. I think its rare to get all of that in one package. My parents have a successful relationship and have accomplished a lot together over the years. However most people in this world are not capable. They simply don’t have the skills and discipline. I see it all the time with the behaviors of some here on SS.

My ideal relationship would be a 5yr contract. The terms and conditions would be laid out and agreed upon much like any business contract is done today. The combined and individual assets are defined in the contract. If one of the parties is not compliant by definition, the contract is terminated and penalties assessed. At the end of the 5yr contract, you can choose to renew as is, modify, or end the contract. My biggest fear is getting divorced again and having to split assets. I want the ability to end the relationship with what is mine. I’m not going to have an exwife benefit from my hard work, smart decisions, and discipline throughout my life that produced my wealth.

And yes it would be monogamous. I don’t believe any healthy-minded woman could be happy knowing her man was off fuhking his mistress while she sits at home. I have no desire to fuhk some other girl on the side either. I don’t have the time nor am I willing to deal with additional female drama. Fuhking multiple people at the same time waters down the quality of all of the relationships. Its like multi-tasking….its full of comprises.

All I need is a HB9 that takes care of her body and mind, treats me with respect, and lets her inner freak out. If she can do that I will stay faithful, take good care of her, work hard at having a solid relationship………and we’ll sign a lot of those 5yr contracts.

The type of woman that would be happy with this is one that thinks like I do and doesn’t want to lose what she has. She will also see the value of “staying on your toes” and not becoming complacent. I’ve noticed that the girls I’ve dated that have money and assets desire marriage less than the ones who don’t have anything. Imagine that! If you are a woman that wants security and are content sitting on your azz, getting fat, and not having sechs, then you probably won’t like my deal either. I’m not a provider. If I wanted to provide I would be a sugar daddy.

Ps. I’ve read that they do have marriage contracts in Mexico similar to what I have described. Maybe they will catch on in the U.S. as women continue to complain about men not wanting to get married any more.

 

[Desdinova]

Let me guess, blessed with looks

???

how the **** does this work for the 75% of men who don't get a wife?

Their crummy genes will die off because they will never procreate. Only the strong will survive.

You want this situation because you think you'll be the one with 4 wives.

And...???

You are free to emigrate to an islamic ****hole where they support the neandethal vision of human relationships.

You mean like Utah?

My ideal relationship would be a 5yr contract. The terms and conditions would be laid out and agreed upon much like any business contract is done today. The combined and individual assets are defined in the contract. If one of the parties is not compliant by definition, the contract is terminated and penalties assessed. At the end of the 5yr contract, you can choose to renew as is, modify, or end the contract.

Apparently that's how a lot of prenups are done.

 

[zekko]

You mean like Utah?

Lol

 

[LiveYourDream]

Thank you for being able to get beyond my wall of text and to the heart of my contemplation. I appreciate your thoughtful replies sooooooo much!!! It helps me more than you know!

I immensely appreciate the individuality and personal views shared! That alone has helped me tremendously as well! Thank you!!!

I am not sure where to start. I could reply and be thoughtful with each. That would be a wall of text. Each of you brought up so many different thoughts and feelings within me!

There is a lot of emotion and feelings of vulnerability in this topic for me right now. A lot. Please bear with me.

There is lots to share in reply. Putting it into words, (concise words--lol), is another process for me, unfortunately not a fast one. Know that I am grateful for your sharings and that I am working on my sharing back to you.

 

[Fruitbat]

???

Ah, not good genes then, my mistake.

Their crummy genes will die off because they will never procreate. Only the strong will survive.

Well, if that's what you want......good luck with your crummy genes.

And...???

and what?

You mean like Utah?

No.

 

[FwoGiZ]

Alright my turn. I am not going to go with my dream relationship cause I am an extremist so it'd be quite fcked up and would obviously never work since it'd be pure utopia. Instead, I'll go with my current relationship(s) which took me over a decade to figure out what was good for ME, therefore her too, which, so far, is working very well!

1. If you could set up your ideal on-going relationship or ltr, in ANY way you wanted, what would you design for the two of you?
Live-in OLTR. We're both sexually free to do as we please with minimal rules. The reasoning behind that is that I personally can't be satisfied by just one women. I simply NEED sexual variety and it has nothing to do with how good my main girl is or isn't. In fact, she's definitely in my top 3. She understands that and since we're not in the 40-50s anymore, it has to be fair as she can also get some on the side since anyways, she works and pulls her own weight in the relationship. I pay mortgage, she pays me rent, other than that, we split absolutely everything that is restaurant, grocery, travelling. If something material has to be bought such as furniture, SHE or myself buys it and owns it. Reality is, I am the one who needs sexual variety.. so she literally shares all her friends with me which is great deal for everyone. I also have fb on the side that comes and go, which she knows exists but know very little about. I don't tell her about it but if she asks, I try to dodge but if she insists, I warn her and tell her about them. On my side, I don't want to know anything about her side dudes. She respects that, but in all honesty, I know she doesn't have anything steady, and rarely get some on the side, probably mostly when I am on the road and travelling which is 2-3 times a year. She does really enjoy women tho which I always love hearing about


2. Do you think a man and a woman, who genuinely love and care for each other, could make your-set-up work well for them?
Absolutely... I am not the only one doing that but I'd say it really is meant for only 10% of people?

3. What, if anything, do you think it would take for a woman to be GENUINELY happy in your desired set-up?
Time + redpillness, followed by some acceptance that some men (me in this case) simply are made like that. It didn't happen over night. I'd say the transition took over a year (because we weren't OLTR from the start) and we're still adjusting as it is but we both can see, understand and appreciate how better it made our relationship. Laughing at people talking about cheating is godamn hilarious...

4. If she agreed, and you were seeing/sleeping with other women, openly or, with her consent but without her knowledge, do you think you would you loose respect for her, even subtly?
Not at all. That would make me a manipulating liar. She's doing huge compromise and proving she loves me enough to stick around, specially since she has no incentive to (no marriage, no kids ahead for this guy) other than love and being with me.

5. Do you think sleeping with other women would affect the love you feel for her?
No.. she wished I didn't have that need but I explained to her that I would only love her more, which I proved to her. She says I am more loving after and it's true since the sex I have with other women can at best remind me why I am with her in the first place. It took a while to prove that point but after a while, she acknowledged it and now she respects me more for being open about my needs while still maintaining my respect towards her. I truly love her and she let me be a man, why would I ever dump a girl like that? I can deeply bond with a women without having to constantly fight with my willpower! She's pure gold to me.

6. Do you think sleeping with other women would affect your long term happiness with her?
I don't think so... Another concept is that once again, why would I dump her for another women I don't even know? As long as we keep with the program we agreed with, I have no reason to change anything. Women usually change their mind, men not so much. What I can foresee is some of my longer lasting fb might try to take her spot as my main LTR... they'll prolly be using methods that will disgusts me which will result in nexting. I will also just take for granted that they will change the plan if I would ever upgrade her and dump my main LTR. Also, hypergamy is a women thing... I do not experience that kinda thing

7. If the frequency and quality of sex is very satisfying with your partner, how often do you think you would still have the urge to sleep with other women? How often would you follow through on it?
I am finding that I can go 2-3 weeks without thinking about it too much. It really is a variety thing cause none of them ever satisfy me like my main LTR does but she simply can't satisfy my variety need, although she does help a lot inviting her hot friends over all the time! She's a wise little devil ahah. After over a month, I kinda start going crazy and it's a nonstop presence deep inside constantly annoying me.

8. How long do you think you could remain genuinely and truly happy/satisfied, in your ideal set-up?
That's a really hard one to tell... I do not think I will be with her forever since I am pretty sure eventually the whole biological clock thing will hit her hard and she'll want to have a baby. Peronsally, I think I could remain happy and satisfied in this setup for quite a long time! She makes it that easy for me.

Reading other people's responses and holy ****... so much judging rofl!!!
Not everybody is the same...whatever floats your boat right? All I know, is we're both happy and I am actually amazed at how much better how life became... she used to be pissed I would stare too much and be flirty all the time (which I didn't even realize until my best bud confirmed). It's just how I am. She isn't a saint either, quite a bit of an attention wh0re so we fit pretty good, just not in the conventional relationships that society expects. We are faithful and bonded, just both sexually promiscuous and more liberal. We are able to just enjoy each others without the drama conventional couples experiences and the best thing is that this drama becomes a great source of entertainment.. hearing our friends tell us that she did this and he did that... we simply shrug and wink at each others.

 

[MatureDJ]

My ideal situation would be to have a harem of very attractive women that are faithful to me, like Hef.

 

[highSpeed]

This is an interesting question. I do feel as if there is always going to be some amount of desire for men to want more than one woman. However, I think with good and varied sex, most men are not going to stray. Men are pretty simple for the most part. A devoted woman, who lets the man lead, who takes care of him, is a great companion and gives him great sex. Give a man that and most will go to the gates of h*ll for you.

 

[The Duke]

and since we're not in the 40-50s anymore,

I do not think I will be with her forever since I am pretty sure eventually the whole biological clock thing will hit her hard and she'll want to have a baby.

I'm confused, please straighten me out here. Your profile says you are 31yo. You mention in your post that WE are not in the 40-50's anymore which would make me think YOU and HER are 60+. Then you go on to say her biological clock is ticking and she wants a baby which would make me think she is late 30's.

How old are you and how old is she?

 

[The Duke]

I'm confused, please straighten me out here. Your profile says you are 31yo. You mention in your post that WE are not in the 40-50's anymore which would make me think YOU and HER are 60+. Then you go on to say her biological clock is ticking and she wants a baby which would make me think she is late 30's.

How old are you and how old is she?

@FwoGiZ Never mind, you meant 1940-1950's! You are both in your 30's!

 

[LiveYourDream]

TL;DR bolded below. More questions still needing help highlighted for you in blue. Otherwise, a long sharing of my female thought and feeling process, from first trigger to clarity, and all that came out your sharings for me. What's transpired for me may sound simple, or not like much at all. For me, on in the inside, it's profound. Huge gratitude for your help!!!

The other night when I listened to that video I was left shaken, so to speak. It made me question why exactly monogamy appeals to me now and always has. What was below the surface for me? Was it fear and insecurity? Even subtly? Was it some attempt to control? If that was found to be true, what did I need to resolve within myself.

Two of my highest values are loving and freedom. Suddenly I was questioning if monogamy truly aligned with those values. Was there an opportunity to grow beyond some unknown inner fear or insecurity and open myself to a new level of loving? Was there a way I could better love my partner and better honor his freedom?

My paradigm about monogamy was bumped so hard, I had to question everything from the ground up. I always want to live and choose consciously and in line with what I value most. I was rattled that maybe I hadn't been as aware of what drove my choices. An honest look was suddenly in order. I knew that I needed to fully step out of the paradigm I had been in to reevaluate fairly, or as fairly as I could. Thus, this roller coaster ride began inside me.

This wasn't to judge or make right or wrong anyone's choices to be monogamous or not. It was to be sure I was being deeply honest with myself and truly loving to the best of my ability and honoring my vales, which includes freedom.

What came up for me next was the conditioned thought that many men find monogamy unnatural. As I have been preparing and refining myself for my next relationship, I wondered if I needed to perhaps consider a relationship outside of the box of monogamy, as a GREATER expression of love and honoring of my partner. I felt if men felt deeply constricted and unnatural within a monogamous relationship and indeed I loved this man with all my heart, would loving him then include designing a relationship that allowed for loving and freedom? I was in the deep end and in there with my whole heart.

I love with all I am. My sexuality is shared as an expression of my loving, attraction and desire, for my man. So questioning monogamy wasn't about having an open relationship where both parties are free to play. I am a super sexual woman. My sex drive is through the roof. My sex drive and extreme horniness doesn't supersede my desire/preference to share those experiences with a man I deeply love and connect with. My partner count is exceptionally low, as I've just been monogamous with men I've deeply loved/love.

As I prepare myself for my next lover/partner/relationship, I am aware that my capacity to honor the man I am with, and myself, is levels, from where I have been, with a partner before. I want, to be in a partnership sharing loving and laughter and light heartedness and play, and all that honors and supports one another in our growth as individuals and as a couple.

Suddenly, I wasn't sure if monogamy was still the best set-up for that. I questioned if men who are in committed monogamous relationships feel deeply or significantly constricted, within their bodies and within their relationships. I wouldn't want to be the cause of any man feeling that way, especially my beloved.

I turned to you for help. There was so much on my mind and it came out in a wall of text with lots of questions and each felt so important at the time. I so appreciate every reply! I so much appreciate those that replied! You have no idea!!! After I wrote and posted it was like my mind went into a spin cycle. It was just muddy with thoughts and feelings and past, present and future considerations, all trying to find some clarity. It was really emotional for me until this morning.

I want to love with all my heart, all that I am. I want the man I love to feel free. For me sex, no matter where on the range from passionate, to animalistic, to a fun quicky, to heartfelt lovemaking, to orgasmic bliss and beyond, it's all an expression of my Being--so heart connected for me, from my heart to his, no matter the tone, tempo or duration of the interaction. I love the man I am with. So when I imagine him with other women, it's hard. It's all hypothetical at the moment. Just the idea still gets me in my core. It's how I am lined up it seems.

Is it fear of the relationship ending? Hypothetically, no. If he feels he would be happier in a relationship with someone else, than he should be with that person. I would support that. I am comfortable keeping my own company. I am not someone who is desperate or needy to be in relationship. I don't partner just to partner or partners just to have sex. I choose to be in relationship, because it enlivens and enriches both people and their lives. It feels so good to give, to love, and to receive, and to play together. It's a blessing for both, in my experience.

 

[LiveYourDream]

continued...

Then there is this idea that sex is emotional for women but not necessarily for men. (Please let me know your thoughts on how true that is, please!!) There is this idea, but I am not a man to know if it's true, that sex can be simply a release, not emotionally connected. Women used for ONS are referred to as cvm dumpsters here. Hook up and ONS culture seemingly prevails everywhere these days. Is that because sex is not emotionally connected for most men or does it depend on who the man is with and the circumstances?

Even if it's true, I can't imagine watching my man fvck another woman and being neutral let alone encouraging, even if I saw how much satisfaction he was getting from it. That's my honest heart. I don't want to diminish his joy and fun and satisfaction EVER, but I am clear it wouldn't be a good set-up for me to be there.

What is interesting is, I likely could/would enjoy being with a woman in front of him, only if that pleased him (and me), but he could only be a spectator, till she left. Maybe not fair, but honest.

Then I considered, if this man I love, is one who needs the variety of other sexual partners to feel free and unconstricted, maybe it would be an agreement of sorts that included permission for him to play and yet clarity that I was never to know about it. For me it would be a practice of staying present in the moment and out of my mind and imagination. I considered it. Then there is who I am. I am woman who is really sensitive and really perceptive. I am in-tune with those I am close with. Just as I can tell when someone's up or down, a little off, hungry, tired, needing some space, needing a BJ =), I imagine that the ebbs and flows around sexual encounters with others would catch my awareness and sooner than later I'd connect the dots. Sure, it could be for me to not ask questions then I won't know and supposedly all would be well. Not in this case, I am feeling.

I can feel my heart as I write about it. Why is he having sex with some other woman, especially if sex together, with he and I, is as good as I perceive and understand it be from him?

I told you my mind went on the spin cycle. Where did it land?

When I really considered what it would be to have a man I am partnered with, who I love with all my heart, whom I enjoy great sex with, to feel the need to sleep with other women on the side...

I asked myself if it would diminish the love I felt for him. The answer is no. I love him. I may not prefer the things he does but that doesn't mean I love him less.

But...what I felt was this ache in my heart. When I considered again, if it would affect the love I felt for him, what came forward was that the love would not change but that each time it would be like a crack in my heart. It would hurt. I would still love him. I'd be loving him with a cracked and hurting heart moving forward.

Knowing myself, open communication and understanding is foundation and essential in relationships for me. If there was a topic, that was off limits, that would be a huge crack in our foundation as a couple, for me.

I am one who believes and appreciates truth, even if it hurts my feelings. It is always preferred over deception on any level, always, always, always! The deception necessary to hide his escapades from me, to make sure I didn't know would still be felt and further crack the foundation for me.

(Disclaimer, this is me and my feelings, yes I am a woman. None of this is a judgement on anyone who chooses different. This is just me offering insight into the spin cycle of this woman's mind, in the event it's helpful in anyway.)

Then that heart pain, cracking of my heart, every time I was aware he was with someone else, it was clear that would affect ALL my interactions with him going forward. As much as I may try to love him and be with him just the same, it would be there while I was making him lunch or making love or whatever. Maybe sometimes it would be less noticeable than others. I am not one to carry resentments, get bitter or punish. I like to clear the air when there are issues and move forward together again. That heart crack, or multiples, I feel each one, would put emotional distance between me and this man who I love and adore. That would hurt too. I don't see a way around it, for me. I love with all my heart. I just don't do deception. I do truth and openness and connection and joy. Those heart cracks, even if silent, would pervade it all (or so it appears right now.)

Then a bit later the thought came about aging. I have been caring for my mother who is near by. I look after my father who is out of state, the best I can, from where I am. My dear stepmother passed away recently. She was an amazing woman. Her last year was a rough ride that required intense care. My father is 87, and his own life was pretty precarious during part of her decline. With some intense intervention, he recovered. He devoted himself to her comfort and care all the way through. I could not be more proud of the man he is!

I thought of my brother who passed a few years ago and how I was there for him, loving him with all my heart, through his last breath and beyond.

There was another loved one whose care was in my hands, as my brother was ill and after he passed, who had severe dementia. She has since passed also. What I saw was that most people with dementia or Alzheimer's are placed in facilities, and rarely if ever visited after the first month. Sometimes the person will no longer know who you are or what you talked about 5 minutes before. They will have no idea of all you are doing to ensure their happiness, comfort and well-being. It shouldn't be their concern. Life for them is simply one moment after another, within their own perception. Joy can still be shared, as can love, it just may look a whole lot different. They deserve love and attention too.

I am not trying to be a Debbie Downer here. These things came forward, as I was coming out of the spin cycle. They were purposeful for me.

 

[LiveYourDream]

last bit...

It reminded me that the relationship I am lining up with is about a partner who isn't in it just for sex or for the good times only. For me when I am in with man, I am all in with him, and love him through life ups and the downs,and ups again and on and on, as long as it is lined up for us.

While I am flattered and it makes me smile when men in their 20's hit on me, I am clearly not in my 20's anymore. My concerns and priorities in partnership while older are deeper these days. If my man needed me or my support in a challenge, I am there. My resources are there (within reason). A man who needs to fvck other women, is he going to show up and be there if life throws a curve ball, and it's not only not convenient but is incredibly challenging. I am aware I am presupposing and judging right now. It's mine to own. I do. I wonder if such a man would be more likely the man to drop the inconvenience and simply move along to one of his plates instead.

To clarify I am not suggesting that if a man only has sex with me than he's more likely stick around through hard times, to keep the sex going, rather than find a new source. That's not my thought process. My thought is about character. A man's character is what gains my respect. My thought is that a man who is willing to sacrifice sleeping with other women, is likely a man who will not turn from significant adversity, but be a man who partners through it well. (Thoughts? Is that an unfair judgement or likely to be accurate?)

TL; DR
This is beyond long. It's all heartfelt. While no one may care, and that's ok. I offer it with immense gratitude. It's your sharings that brought me through this. What I realized is that my preconceived idea, of what men, as a whole, would want just wasn't true. The individuality of the answers was fantastic. I thank of each of you!!! Somehow my mind had been locked on this belief that most men would want sex with more than one woman and without it men would feel ever constricted. It was amazing to read how that wasn't true, for some men. I hadn't realized that I had adopted this belief around men as a whole. (Too much SS maybe.) My apologies. This thread and your responses burst that false generalization back to the reality of each man with his individual preferences. How amazing you all are in your own ways! I am so grateful too!

The spin stopped, the mud settled and clarity came present this morning. I am clear more than ever that a man, who knows he needs an open policy to fulfill his desire for variety, is not a good long term partner match, for my heart and for my loving. I am my best when my heart feels open and feels free and just loves. That's me. That's what makes me happy. Unless I am happy inside myself first, I can never be a happy partner to a man. I love clarity. I feel so happy right now. My heart feels so happy. I wish all the men who desire more variety, all good things, no judgement from me at all. I am clear that when/as I open myself up to my next relationship that choosing monogamy is not a choice based on fear for me. It is about honoring my heart, honoring my loving and loving the man I am with, with all that I am. Loving my beloved freely and with all that I am.

I also did consider that if something catastrophic were to happen and I was unable to fulfill and satisfy my partner sexually, then I imagine I would lovingly encourage and support him in having those needs met by another woman. One never knows. I know what I prefer right now. I have clarity and I am grateful!!!

Thank you! Thank You! Thank you! I soooooooooo super appreciate your sharings! You helped me find deep clarity for me! I am super grateful! If you don't mind would you see if you have any more thoughts you can share with me on the questions highlighted above in blue??? Thank you again!