Tenacity's Money Threads

[Tenacity]

In light of our buddy The Urbanyst's recent "mad money" push, I wanted to promote some of my "money threads" here on the main discussion forum. I'm asking if the Moderators would please leave this thread here, rather than moving it to the Wealth and Success section, why?

- Because more people are going to see it here

- Because as The Urbanyst has pointed out many times, MONEY is one of the key attraction points for a man, in relation to bringing in women. So MONEY should be allowed to be discussed on the Main Discussion Forum, just like "Inner Game" is, because both contribute to a man's overall attraction.

So here's a collection of Tenacity Money Threads

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/threads/get-rich-slowly-not-quickly.239975/

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/threads/how-to-make-1-000-000-accurate-depiction.229273/

Also, speaking of money, here are two Tenacity threads that make excellent analogies of women in today's market, to related monetary concepts:

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/threads/todays-women-are-penny-stocks-not-blue-chip.225276/

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/threads/women-are-lease-agreements-not-finance-agreements.226106/

 

[AlphaNate]

MONEY is one of the key attraction points for a man, in relation to bringing in women.

"That's a lie!" -people with no money

 

[bigneil]

People don't realize how hard some of us had to work and what we went through to be able to earn money. A lot of a man with money's attractiveness is actually the fact he had to become a warrior first in order to earn a good living. One must become adaptable, a survivor, without form.

Also remember: the same abilities one must develop to coax money from top businessmen are also what is required to extract sex from women. So women don't just like the money, they like men who have learned to make money. These men tend to be a lot more energetic also.

 

[Tenacity]

People don't realize how hard some of us had to work and what we went through to be able to earn money. A lot of a man with money's attractiveness is actually the fact he had to become a warrior first in order to earn a good living. One must become adaptable, a survivor, without form.

Also remember: the same abilities one must develop to coax money from top businessmen are also what is required to extract sex from women. So women don't just like the money, they like men who have learned to make money. These men tend to be a lot more energetic also.

Excellent point! I always talk about the fact that REAL confidence is BUILT through the fire, not through saying positive affirmations in the mirror over and over like a jack rabbit. Think about what it takes to make 6 figures today? You have to:

* Think outside of the box and blaze your own trail for the most part
* You have to FIGHT against a system and FIGHT against a standard way of doing things
* You have to develop STRONG mental, emotional, LOGICAL, strategic, and critical thinking skills
* You have to develop STRONG communication and social skills
* You have to develop the Tenacity (no pun intended) to work through setbacks, failure, and other issues
* You have to develop STRONG networking skills
* You have to develop STRONG patience and discipline
* You have to develop some sense of style (you can't go on appointments looking like a bum)

All of these things are also building REAL confidence, REAL leadership skills, and REAL "alpha male" qualities. As much as guys bash making money and working out on here, the reality is that if guys go through the fire to build wealth and build their bodies.....the inner game, personality and social skill aspect of attraction many times are automatically BUILT on the side, without the guy even directly focusing on it.

 

[bigneil]

* You have to develop some sense of style (you can't go on appointments looking like a bum)

All of these things are also building REAL confidence, REAL leadership skills, and REAL "alpha male" qualities. As much as guys bash making money and working out on here, the reality is that if guys go through the fire to build wealth and build their bodies.....the inner game, personality and social skill aspect of attraction many times are automatically BUILT on the side, without the guy even directly focusing on it.

Exactly - think it's a coincidence that women find the standard outfit mean wear to interview to be the most attractive (a business suit)?

 

[Urbanyst]

Money is an indicator of POWER and power is sexy.

People in this world who don't respect money are guaranteed to never have much of it. MONEY only stays in the hands of those who respect it and value it. You see typical losers win the lottery all the time and they are broke again in a few months or years. Why is this? Its because they don't respect MONEY. They are blue pill. They believe life is all about inner beauty, game and acting alpha.

No broke person is an alpha. Not in the eyes of women.

Success is a measure of male superiority. Just like looks measure female superiority. Men who say money doesn't matter are EXACTLY like women who say looks don't matter. Its a JOKE. Might as well put on a pair of clown shoes and call it a day.

 

[The Duke]

well look at that........we have Tenacity, Urban, and BigNeil talking about money once again.....3 pea's in a pod. How cute.

 

[TheMonkeyKing]

well look at that........we have Tenacity, Urban, and BigNeil talking about money once again.....3 pea's in a pod. How cute.

Money is for sure one of the biggest facets of attraction. Like every other facet, I'm not sure why the fact continues to be refuted or lauded.

Focussing solely on one variable however, is basically the same as having a oneitis crush.

It's a self-fulfilling prophecy....

-The man who relies solely on looks attracts vacuous empty shells.
-The man who relies solely on entertainment attracts hyperactive drama queens.
-The man who relies solely on money attracts gold diggers.

The balanced man attracts the balanced woman.

 

[guru1000]

Aww how cute, the piker creates a money thread showing all how to become pikers, that is, how to achieve a One Million Dollar net worth in 30 years--which is the equivalent of $300,000 today (NPV after compounding inflation)--a true net worth after investing your blood, sweat, and tears, which will barely cover the cost of raising one child till age 18 and paying for his/her college tuition.

Tenacity, the perpetual renter, who believes true value is in investing into his landlords' pockets instead of building equity of 400% of your 20% DP (or 1200% through 300% appreciation) through mortgage payments (along with taxes, insurance, utilities, maintenance, repairs, inspections) which will be paid by tenants in the other units of YOUR multi-unit building in which you reside.

The piker who also believes:

• Paying taxes is good, thus who needs silly R/E;

• 60K annual income is an achievement;
• 2-3% annual CD/junk-bond rates are good investing;
• Middle-class is a milestone;
• Monetary success has nothing to do with thinking and will;
  
• Money attracts women yet couldn't attract one LTR out of 200+ dates; and
• Last but not least, he will never be affluent because he needs to rely on exclusive networks which he will never be privy to because he is a social abrogation.

Sorry for the interruption. We'll now bring you back to your piker-scheduled program. Carry on.

 

[Tenacity]

Aww how cute, the piker creates a money thread showing all how to become pikers, that is, how to achieve a One Million Dollar net worth in 30 years--which is the equivalent of $300,000 today (NPV after compounding inflation)--a true net worth after investing your blood, sweat, and tears, which will barely cover the cost of raising one child till age 18 and paying for his/her college tuition.

Tenacity, the perpetual renter, who believes true value is in investing into his landlords' pockets instead of building equity of 400% of your 20% DP (or 1200% through 300% appreciation) through mortgage payments (along with taxes, insurance, utilities, maintenance, repairs, inspections) which will be paid by tenants in the other units of YOUR multi-unit building in which you reside.

The piker who also believes:

• Paying taxes is good, thus who needs silly R/E;

• 60K annual income is an achievement;
• 2-3% annual CD/junk-bond rates are good investing;
• Middle-class is a milestone;
• Monetary success has nothing to do with thinking and will;
  
• Money attracts women yet couldn't attract one LTR out of 200+ dates; and
• Last but not least, he will never be affluent because he needs to rely on exclusive networks which he will never be privy to because he is a social abrogation.

Sorry for the interruption. We'll now bring you back to your piker-scheduled program. Carry on.

Guru I just have a couple questions for you....

- For all of your talk about me being a Piker, do you realize that my net worth is higher than pretty much everybody on this forum except maybe yourself, Howie, BigNeil, and BeExcellent?

- For all of your talk about me being a Piker, do you realize that for over a decade I operated my own business, which is the most riskiest form of investment you can do?

- For all of your talk about me being a Piker, do you realize that where I come from in Flint, MI, thinking outside of the box, focusing on investing/finances, is actually outlawed/mocked....and I bucked that entire line of thought to get to where I'm at today? I literally BUCKED my entire Family bloodline to get to where I'm at.

I mean people call others names all day long, but how you associate me with a Piker I don't understand. All of this is because I don't invest in Real Estate? I've posted the numbers, buying Real Estate in my area for just ME (without a family to support) makes no sense.

 

[guru1000]

Do you honestly think you could have made it to a seven-figure net worth inside five years starting from negative half-mil with all your licenses stripped; no jurisdiction willing to license you again; all your friends, family, associates, and networks having turned their backs on you; and through a divorce--using 100% legal means to effect your will?

To the guy I just described, striving for one mil in 30 years is a piker's will.

 

[Tenacity]

Do you honestly think you could have made it to a seven-figure net worth inside five years starting from negative half-mil with all your licenses stripped; no jurisdiction willing to license you again; all your friends, family, associates, and networks having turned their backs on you; and through a divorce--using 100% legal means to effect your will?

To the guy I just described, striving for one mil in 30 years is a piker's will.

Okay well, detail your plan of how someone gets to a $1 million net worth in 5 years then. Complete details, no ambiguity, no Law of Attraction stuff....concrete step A, step B, step C type of stuff.

You keep talking about "piker this, piker that", but when I've asked you to detail how someone makes a $1 million net worth in 5 years (like you keep claiming to know how to do), you NEVER detail your plan.

So I want to see this plan. I'm waiting........

 

[guru1000]

You don't pay attention? Here's 3-6 mil in 20-30 years by investing alone.

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/threads/worst-job.237950/page-3#post-2416750

At to my approach in business, which clearly supersedes even R/E, very few in the forum have the will.

But you can start with the above link to expand your paradigms out of the petty 1MM. Any questions, go right ahead.

 

[Tenacity]

You don't pay attention? Here's 3-6 mil in 20-30 years.

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/threads/worst-job.237950/page-3#post-2416750

At to my approach in business, which clearly supersedes even R/E, very few in the forum have the will.

But you can start with the above link to expand your paradigms out of the petty 1MM. Any questions, go right ahead.

Sir, there are no concrete details here sir, just random numbers that I have no idea where you got them. In my 20 - 30 year plan it's specific/concrete details with all numbers supported by factual data/research. I'm going to need you to expand these details so myself and others can further review them. For example:

It makes no sense to buy multi-unit R/E with rents that provide positive monthly cash flow after paying your mortgage, taxes, insurance, maintenance, utilities, and property managers (so you don't need to invest much time) and giving you a free place to live--bought with a 20% down payment and 80% mortgage to be paid in 20 years in an area with no property appreciation for a 400% return in 20 years (Equity / Down Payment) or in a strong municipality with burgeoning economics and growing population with historical returns of properties appreciating at 300% every 20 years for a total 1200% return (Equity / Down Payment).

- What area of the country are you buying these properties in?

- What data are you using to support a 400% return in 20 years based on appreciation value?

- What are the average values of these properties upon purchase? Are you buying these using loans/mortgages, or are you pooling together investor funds?

- What websites are you using to research and select the properties? Can you provide more information on your actual selection process when considering the properties?

Yes you are right, better to squander your money on rent and lose $250,000-$500,000 (over 20-30 years) in rent money

Where are you getting the $250,000 - $500,000 losses from renting from? Provide more details on where you got these numbers from.

..........as opposed to investing those rent monies into the vehicles outlined above for a net return of $3 - $6 MM not including the positive cash flow you would receive each month nor the the potential of your pulling cash out as you build equity to buy more properties with the same stratagem.

PLEASE provide more detailed information on how you are coming up with these returns??

Your idea is brilliant! Keep striving for that 1MM (1/3 mil NPV over 30 years!)

I completely understand $1 million in 2017 won't be the same in 2040, but it's still going to be more than what 99% of my peers will have at the time. But nevertheless, see the notes above and provide MORE information on your plan because there's so many details missing.

 

[guru1000]

You are seeking commercial buildings, 5+ units, in strong municipalities with burgeoning economics and growing population with historical returns of properties appreciating at 300% every 20 years. All properties must have total rents to exceed the anticipated mortgage, tax, insurance, utilities, repairs, and maintenance expenses by at a least 25% surplus cash flow.

Step One: Multiply current down payment by 5 to ascertain purchase price. No down payment? Then solicit monies from friends/family in exchange for promissory notes or deed interests, or seek sellers willing to engage a seller-carry back to be used as a down payment.

Step Two: Go to LoopNet. Call/develop relationships with realtors and advice them what you are seeking, and schedule appointments. You will likely visit dozens of buildings before you find one that meets your criteria.

Now onto your questions:

What area of the country are you buying these properties in?

Any area in your state, where the municipality is strong to extent of its current economics and expanding populace.

- What data are you using to support a 400% return in 20 years based on appreciation value?

Data is called math. If you buy a property for $500 with a $100 down payment (DP), your total cash investment is $100. When you pay off the mortgage over a 20- or 30-year amortization--and IF there were zero appreciation of the property in that time--then you own a $500 property free and clear, or a 400% return on your $100 investment.

What are the average values of these properties upon purchase? Are you buying these using loans/mortgages, or are you pooling together investor funds?

Depends on your DP, which can be your own or solicit the DP from friends/family in exchange for promissory notes or deed interests, or seek sellers willing to engage a seller-carry back to be used as a down payment. Multiply DP by 5 for purchase price (PP).

What websites are you using to research and select the properties? Can you provide more information on your actual selection process when considering the properties?

Loopnet.

Where are you getting the $250,000 - $500,000 losses from renting from? Provide more details on where you got these numbers from.

How much would you have spent on rent over 360 months (include increasing rents due to inflation)?

PLEASE provide more detailed information on how you are coming up with these returns??

If you secured a building in a burgeoning municipality with historical appreciation of 300% every 20 years, then your 400% return above (with no appreciation) would become a 1200% return. As you have lost $250,000 - $500,000 in rents over 30 years, those monies invested into R/E at a 1200% return, would produce a net worth which exceeds 3-6 mil, not including the potentiality of cash pull-outs every 5-10 years to buy more 1200% vehicles, nor the 25% cash flow you pocket each month and the extreme tax savings which you can now utilize for more 1200% vehicle purchases.

 

[Tenacity]

You are seeking commercial buildings, 5+ units, in strong municipalities with burgeoning economics and growing population with historical returns of properties appreciating at 300% every 20 years. All properties must have total rents to exceed the anticipated mortgage, tax, insurance, utilities, repairs, and maintenance expenses by at a least 25% surplus cash flow.

So I'm buying commercial properties in good local economies to rent out to small businesses? Or what type of commercial property are you referring to? And these properties appreciate at a rate of 15% per year?

Any area in your state, where the municipality is strong to extent of its current economics and expanding populace.

What if the property goes vacant longer than planned? What if it doesn't sustain a 15% per year appreciation for 20 years? Then what?

Data is called math. If you buy a property for $500 with a $100 down payment (DP), your total cash investment is $100. When you pay off the mortgage over a 20- or 30-year amortization--and IF there were zero appreciation of the property in that time--then you own a $500 property free and clear, or a 400% return on your $100 investment.

Ummm....no. You have to add in the other variable costs associated with the operations that includes mortgage interest over 20 - 30 years plus insurance, taxes, maintenance, repairs, etc. over 20 - 30 years. That calculation is wrong.

How much would you have spent on rent over 360 months (include increasing rents due to inflation)?

- I'm staying in the Suburbs right now in what's considered a luxury apartment, for $750 - $760 per month. That monthly price includes a full gym on site, lakeside patio, a pool resort open during the Spring/Summer upfront, full washer/dryer/etc. inside the unit, plus they pay our gas, water, and trash.

- If I were to purchase real estate in this same area (and I will only stay in such an area, I will NOT move to the inner city) then my entire monthly housing costs would go from $760 per month to at least $1,800 per month in terms of all budgets.

- This means there's no money being "thrown away", because the $760 I'm paying now would be paid in interest, maintenance, repairs, utilities, appliance purchases, and other related costs of buying Real Estate, BEFORE, the actual value of the property is factored in, which would bring the total to the $1,800 per month range for 30 years (monthly would be MORE if I did a 15 year).

I'm not throwing money away because I have to live SOMEWHERE, thus, there will always be those related housing expenses.

 

[guru1000]

So I'm buying commercial properties in good local economies to rent out to small businesses? And these properties appreciate at a rate of 15% per year?

You are buying 5+ residential unit buildings which are called “commercial properties.” You are renting residentially, not commercially.

A compounding rate of 15% per year over 20 years does not equal 300%.

In burgeoning economies throughout the nation, you will find the average commercial building appreciate at a rate of over 300% every 20 years.

What if the property goes vacant longer than planned? What if it doesn't sustain a 15% per year appreciation for 20 years? Then what?

In strong muni’s with population growth you should carry a 0-10% vacancy factor. Hence, why you seek a 25% positive cash flow in your purchase(s)--to weather vacancies and other variable costs of doing business

Ummm....no. You have to add in the other variable costs associated with the operations that includes mortgage interest over 20 - 30 years plus insurance, taxes, maintenance, repairs, etc. over 20 - 30 years. That calculation is wrong.

Umm, no you don’t. Math is not your forte. Now read what I wrote, think about it, learn it, and then explain to me why you don’t.

I'm staying in the Suburbs right now in what's considered a luxury apartment, for $750 - $760 per month. That monthly price includes a full gym on site, lakeside patio, a pool resort open during the Spring/Summer upfront, full washer/dryer/etc. inside the unit, plus they pay our gas, water, and trash.

- If I were to purchase real estate in this same area (and I will only stay in such an area, I will NOT move to the inner city) then my entire monthly housing costs would go from $760 per month to at least $1,800 per month in terms of all budgets.

- This means there's no money being "thrown away", because the $760 I'm paying now would be paid in interest, maintenance, repairs, utilities, appliance purchases, and other related costs of buying Real Estate, BEFORE, the actual value of the property is factored in, which would bring the total to the $1,800 per month range for 30 years (monthly would be MORE if I did a 15 year).

I'm not throwing money away because I have to live SOMEWHERE, thus, there will always be those related housing expenses.

This is not what I outlined.

 

[Tenacity]

You are buying 5+ residential unit buildings which are called “commercial properties.” You are renting residentially, not commercially.

Well a commercial property could include a variety of different properties.

A compounding rate of 15% per year over 20 years does not equal 300%.

In burgeoning economies throughout the nation, you will find the average commercial building appreciate at a rate of over 300% every 20 years.

Give me some examples........post them.

In strong muni’s with population growth you should carry a 0-10% vacancy factor. Hence, why you seek a 25% positive cash flow in your purchase(s)--to weather vacancies and other variable costs of doing business

Guru what's amazing is that you are promoting this plan like it's just completely simple.....so simple a cave man can do it. There are so many nuisances, things that could go wrong, things that could fvck up, rates that could be increased, costs that could go up, local economies that could go to SHYT over 20 - 30 years, vacancy rates that could go higher than planned, etc., etc., etc, etc.

It's amazing as to how you are presenting this dude.....like managing all of this is a piece of fvcking cake and it's the path for all of us into a $1 million net worth in NO TIME.

Umm, no you don’t. Math is not your forte. Now read what I wrote, think about it, learn it, and then explain to me why you don’t.

Dude you better read your own quote again. You didn't include any variable/supplemental costs in your example whatsoever.

This is not what I outlined.

I just explained to you my INDIVIDUAL situation in relation to buying or renting. You do realize that the decision to buy or rent is an individual situation, right? There's no one-size-fits-all approach to it.

 

[guru1000]

Give me some examples........post them.

Any and all strong muni's in the U.S. Take your pick.

Guru what's amazing is that you are promoting this plan like it's just completely simple.....so simple a cave man can do it. There are so many nuisances, things that could go wrong, things that could fvck up, rates that could be increased, costs that could go up, local economies that could go to SHYT over 20 - 30 years, vacancy rates that could go higher than planned, etc., etc., etc, etc.

IF you follow what I had directed--even if everything goes wrong (which is zero appreciation)--you will have at least a 400% net return over 20 years. There is no such thing as a rent bubble. As long as rents do not collapse, you will always have enough cash flow to service all the debts of the property and a 25% cash flow cushion.

rates that could be increased

Secure a fixed rate mortgage.

costs that could go up

Costs will go up, and so will rents.

local economies that could go to SHYT over 20 - 30 years

Bankrupt muni after you thought you bought into a great muni, oh well. Now you only get a 400% return with no appreciation.

vacancy rates that could go higher than planned,

Hence, why you seek a 25% cash flow cushion, which supports the worse-case scenario vacancy factor of 10% by 2.5 times.

It's amazing as to how you are presenting this dude.....like managing all of this is a piece of fvcking cake and it's the path for all of us into a $1 million net worth in NO TIME.

Yes, it requires time, due diligence and patience. So you have a choice:

Be a dummy and a piker;

OR

Strive to be great(er), and exercise time, due diligence and patience.

Dude you better read your own quote again. You didn't include any variable/supplemental costs in your example whatsoever.

All costs (including PITI, repairs, maintenance, utilities) have been factored into your monthly nut. All unforeseens are subsidized by your 25% cash flow. I don't think you understood anything I delineated. Quite sad really.

I just explained to you my INDIVIDUAL situation in relation to buying or renting. You do realize that the decision to buy or rent is an individual situation, right? There's no one-size-fits-all approach to it.

< Face Palm>

 

[Tenacity]

Any and all strong muni's in the U.S. Take your pick.

No, this is your plan so you provide the details. Just like when I recommended Index Funds I linked to the specific funds.

IF you follow what I had directed--even if everything goes wrong (which is zero appreciation)--you will have at least a 400% net return over 20 years.

Let's go back to specifically what you said:

If you buy a property for $500 with a $100 down payment (DP), your total cash investment is $100.

That's NOT my total damn investment. Where are the costs for interest, insurance, repairs, maintenance, taxes, etc., for the property??

There is no such thing as a rent bubble. As long as rents do not collapse, you will always have enough cash flow to service all the debts of the property and a 25% cash flow cushion.

Always?? Guarantees in business?? Are you serious?!

Yes, it requires time, due diligence and patience. So you have a choice:

Be a dummy and a piker;

OR

Strive to be great(er), and exercise time, due diligence and patience.

So a PIKER is anybody who doesn't take significant risks investing in commercial real estate, over-leveraging himself (and even his friends/family members who he borrowed from) with the HOPE to become a millionaire in 3 or 5 years?

< Face Palm>

Your entire series of posts are a face palm.....seriously Guru, PLEASE do not become anybody's financial advisor. You will have the poor guy bankrupt in no time, then you will come in and pat him on the back after he's gone bankrupt by telling him:

"Don't worry scout, this is a required step on the path to becoming a millionaire within 5 years. So just go out there, find a way to get a property for no money down using OTHER people's money, and you will make it scout. Don't give up! You don't want to be a PIKER like Tenacity's black a.ss over there do you? Look at Tenacity's black a.ss over there with his little $250k net worth and his Index Funds, URGHH, what a DUMMY!"