How do you handle your Daughters?

[BeExcellent]

In all seriousness I am in need of some guidance here. How do you handle your daughters dealing with all the media outlets, Internet, social media and so forth as they navigate the pre-teen and teen years?

I have a 12 year old who looks like Barbie. Last weekend one of her school friends gave her a hand me down iPad. I was not crazy about this but my ex thought it was OK with monitoring. Well it isn't. My nanny (who is 50 and raised two attractive young women to be sensible women who support themselves and are traditional minded women) caught my daughter on Instagram.

Turns out she has been posting pictures online & has lots of followers including men in their 20s and older. Now the pictures are nothing outrageous or suggestive but the fact that she has put images online at all is worrisome because she is much too naïve to realize she is generating creep type attention. She thinks boys are yucky and swears she doesn't like them...yet.

But she has been a male attention magnet always and obviously this has to be managed appropriately, because as she matures it is going only going to increase.

I have kept pictures of her off the internet all her life because as someone once said to me about her in an airport "she is the type of child someone would steal". Talk about creepy.

She looks like a young Jenny McCarthy.

My ex and I and the nanny (a close friend ever since she was born) are discussing how best to manage things. Obviously we've taken the tablet away. But she gets online at school on friends devices and could always set up accounts we aren't aware of. She's had the birds & bees talk but doesn't register the danger the Internet poses.

My ex is going to sit her down tomorrow for a rather sobering reality check...he knows well men's motivations and understands the sexual marketplace very well.

For those of that have daughters in this age or younger sisters etc. how would you handle the situation?

Her handle contains part of her name.

Snarky comment potential aside how do the dads & brothers out there handle this.

Very scary.

 

[BeExcellent]

Thanks @bradd80 Her dad is going to chat with her about it before school tomorrow because my nanny has her password and has updated her handle to remove her name, so her friends will all see the change and mention it to her.

She only has 14 followers but already some guy has sent her artwork of a female nude.

She lies and is sneaky as a first behavior. If she thinks her dad or I is likely to say no, she lies & sneaks rather than asks.

So I appreciate your emphasis on an approach that is not aggressive or punitive. If she won't discuss things that only makes guiding her that much harder.

I know we can't keep her off the internet but sounds like we must educate her post haste to be smart and not put herself at risk.

 

[Augustus_McCrae]

This is a tough one. I have 2 daughters and went through the same thing. The younger one was never a problem. The older one was a different story.

Your statement that she lies and is sneaky as a first behavior is very concerning.

Some thoughts:

Tell her that anything she posts will be there forever. And as bradd80 said, pics could be altered into something they were never intended to be.

I'm sure you will, but try to find out her motivation for posting on Instagram. Don't buy the "boys are yucky" BS. At a minimum, she posted those pics to garner attention.

Tell her that she has absolutely no idea who is on the other end. It could be a 40 year old guy posing as a 14 year old.

Also, watch who she's hanging out with. Is it the cool girls, the bookish girls, the mean girls, who are her friends?

I also agree with bradd80 that you need to set boundaries. Be as consistent as you can.

As much as possible, eat as a family. Make that time sacred, no TV or electronic devices. Make sure she knows her friends are welcome at the house. Then you get to observe who her friends are.

You're probably already doing this, but show her through your actions that there's so much more to self worth than looks alone.

Do you have a nanny because you have to travel a lot?

-Augustus-

 

[BeExcellent]

Also, watch who she's hanging out with. Is it the cool girls, the bookish girls, the mean girls, who are her friends?

I'd say the mix of girls she hangs out with is best classified as the artsy girls. She has a sweet friend from Catholic school who is quiet, a friend whose mom owns an art studio (also from Catholic school - they illustrate together a lot) and a few other girlfriends who are not overly into makeup and so forth. Her birthday was recent and she had a slumber party and my ex and

I took the girls out for an activity so I was able to see how they interact. It was pretty normal tween silliness and fun. I always welcome people into my home (her friends) and generally my house is where people want to come hang out. It's a big historic home so it has kind of a "cool" factor and there is plenty of room.

They of course discussed boys and who all they "liked" but they spent time watching movies and playing games and that sort of thing. They drew and did art stuff.

In fact all her pictures online are of her art. I didn't see any photos online of her. We checked her account and those of her friends. I thought when the nanny first found all this last evening there were photos of her online but this does not appear to be the case, at least not on Instagram.

As much as possible, eat as a family. Make that time sacred, no TV or electronic devices.

Check. We have always done this at dinnertime. Whoever has parent duty actually cooks dinner most nights. So that's me when I'm home, my ex or the nanny when I'm away. Dinner is a social time where we chat about things and school and current events or whatever. I agree this is very important.

Do you have a nanny because you have to travel a lot?

Yes. The nanny I have (there has only ever been one) is one of my close friends who is otherwise retired. She loves my kids and is invested in them. She is a caring and nuturing person but is also extremely pragmatic and stays current in technology and entertainment. She was a striking woman when she was young herself and her daughters are both pretty so she well understands the risks. The kids are close to her and she has a parenting style that is similar to mine and my ex husband's. My daughters are both very close to her and we refer to the arrangement as the "3 parent system".

My work requires heavy travel and it has been that way from the beginning. My older daughter wants MY attention and approval as she is growing up however and my goal is to be able to live off my passive income streams within the next 2 year period. She likes for me to coach her soccer team (which I am going to schedule my work around this season). I am busting my hump at present to be able to get off the road because it is very important to me to be in the home as the girls come of age. My son seems thus far to be progressing OK and is working hard at school and has good ambition and focus. Their dad works locally and he stays at my house when I am traveling (the kids don't ping-pong back and forth) in an effort to have things as stable for them as possible. That's not what our decree stipulates (the decree stipulates week on week off) but we ignore the decree for now on this in the interest of stability for the children.

This morning my ex called with my daughter before school and he said they had a sobering but good conversation about the situation. He laid it out for her from a man's perspective, explained sexual motivation and that who you *think* you know may actually be completely different than who someone actually is. He explained the dangers of personal identifiers online like names and addresses and location information and explained that someone could potentially take her, and that if someone were to take her he might never be able to find her.

He thinks she is starting to grasp the gravity of the situation. I am so thankful for the responses here. I had to talk myself off the ledge last night but the nanny and the ex and I had a good discussion and are on the same page about managing the behaviors and helping her understand how important safety is online. Obviously this is the first conversation of this nature and the start of what I pray will be an open dialogue. My daughter has to understand that sneaky behaviors endanger her. She seemed on board with that this morning but we will have to see.

@Augustus_McCrae what did you find as you managed through this minefield? Were your daughters able to appreciate and comprehend the reality of the online community? My greatest concern is that my daughter may not really "get" just how REAL (and potentially dangerous) people on the other end of the computer might be. Most of her friends seem to be using their real names as handles too, which strikes me as naive and high risk. My ex took the tone this morning of we can't protect you from things you don't tell us about. She seemed pretty struck by the content of the conversation but it's a journey so we will see how it goes. Bringing up girls is not for sissies.

It is harder to teach "street smarts" online. In my day "street smarts" were actually on the street and out in public venues. So very much more for youth to navigate now, and far greater opportunity for those who would deceive.

 

[BeExcellent]

You're probably already doing this, but show her through your actions that there's so much more to self worth than looks alone.

This is so important. She makes straight As, is talented artistically, and is a sweet friend. She helps around the house and has a great sense of humor. She actually does not care for the attention she gets for her looks (although I'm sure that will change in time.) I emphasize her smarts and her caring nature and while I appreciate her looks, I also strive for her to understand the value others place on her looks and therefore the leverage she has with people because of her looks.

Beauty is a funny thing. It is genetic but it is also how you present yourself to the world as a woman. The first part you have little control over, the second part you have great control over. It is what people see and the basis upon which people assign expectations. It is about behavior as well as appearance. It confers great value in the marketplace but also carries great responsibility (that isn't always recognized by those who are considered beautiful.) The trick is to understand the value it confers while appreciating the responsibility and doing all of this with grace. It's not a simple thing for a budding young woman to grasp but I am leading by example and guiding as best I know how. There is no escape from the attention so it's all in how you learn to manage it.

I am grateful for the responses. I really am. Thank y'all.

 

[fastlife]

@BeExcellent I don't envy your position--we live in an era where technology & 'culture' move faster than our ability to adapt--but I do envy your daughter's. I am not a parent and don't have any daughters, but I interact with a huge amount of other people's daughters. The two single most important factors that I've found produce the happiest, most stable, most secure women are 1.) The ability & encouragement to feel empathy, admiration, & respect for their fathers and 2.) Having grown up in a family system that provided them a stable sense of identity, self-worth, and cooperation while also giving them enough space to hold themselves accountable for their own decisions & their own failures.

From everything I've read of your writing, I'm confident your daughter has both--and, regardless of any other 'mistakes' that she makes along the way (which, unfortunately, are probably inevitable given societal pressures beyond your control), she'll be in a position to grow from those experiences & come thru all right in the end. And she'll have a massive advantage over 90% of women in attracting & maintaining the attention, and possible commitment, of high quality men.

That said, as a parent, you also have the responsibility to leverage as much of your own influence while you are able (and over the next 6 years, your leverage will diminish considerably), while still equipping her to deal with the outside pressures she'll inevitably face on her own. I think in tackling this particular situation, social media will be a huge part of who she is and how she experiences life, regardless of your attempts to diminish its influence. It's good that she hasn't been thrown to the wolves, but if I were in your place, I'd set up an arrangement where she has the freedom to experiment with social media with your direct oversight & monitoring (which she won't like and which you may not like either ). Frank conversation and administrative (you & her father) intervention should follow any missteps on her part--but the frank conversation is paramount.

Shaming, judgmentalism, and heavy-handed parenting are only effective in the short term. I've met countless girls who, thanks to parental influence, were veritable saints right up until their first night of college & then found themselves in a cycle where they didn't have the tools to put checks on their own behavior & couldn't reach out to their parents for guidance due to fear of their parents' judgment and the (correct) perception that their parents couldn't possibly relate.

 

[sodbuster]

I only had sons {thank God}, but I saw alot of behavior in YOUNG girls that has to be biologic in origin. The 6 year old girl on a bike who was waiting for a friend swiveling her bottom back and forth on the bike{looking over to see if my son noticed {we were playing catch with a football}. The 10 year old spinning around the hand rail pole at the hotel pool like a pro while looking to see if my 11 year old son was noticing, etc.I can't believe they knew what they were doing, so I'm thinking it's biology.

All I can tell you is let her know she has brains that need to control her biology.....attention from men isn't always good

 

[Augustus_McCrae]

I'd say the mix of girls she hangs out with is best classified as the artsy girls. She has a sweet friend from Catholic school who is quiet, a friend whose mom owns an art studio (also from Catholic school - they illustrate together a lot) and a few other girlfriends who are not overly into makeup and so forth. Her birthday was recent and she had a slumber party and my ex and

I took the girls out for an activity so I was able to see how they interact. It was pretty normal tween silliness and fun. I always welcome people into my home (her friends) and generally my house is where people want to come hang out. It's a big historic home so it has kind of a "cool" factor and there is plenty of room.

They of course discussed boys and who all they "liked" but they spent time watching movies and playing games and that sort of thing. They drew and did art stuff.

In fact all her pictures online are of her art. I didn't see any photos online of her. We checked her account and those of her friends. I thought when the nanny first found all this last evening there were photos of her online but this does not appear to be the case, at least not on Instagram.



Check. We have always done this at dinnertime. Whoever has parent duty actually cooks dinner most nights. So that's me when I'm home, my ex or the nanny when I'm away. Dinner is a social time where we chat about things and school and current events or whatever. I agree this is very important.



Yes. The nanny I have (there has only ever been one) is one of my close friends who is otherwise retired. She loves my kids and is invested in them. She is a caring and nuturing person but is also extremely pragmatic and stays current in technology and entertainment. She was a striking woman when she was young herself and her daughters are both pretty so she well understands the risks. The kids are close to her and she has a parenting style that is similar to mine and my ex husband's. My daughters are both very close to her and we refer to the arrangement as the "3 parent system".

My work requires heavy travel and it has been that way from the beginning. My older daughter wants MY attention and approval as she is growing up however and my goal is to be able to live off my passive income streams within the next 2 year period. She likes for me to coach her soccer team (which I am going to schedule my work around this season). I am busting my hump at present to be able to get off the road because it is very important to me to be in the home as the girls come of age. My son seems thus far to be progressing OK and is working hard at school and has good ambition and focus. Their dad works locally and he stays at my house when I am traveling (the kids don't ping-pong back and forth) in an effort to have things as stable for them as possible. That's not what our decree stipulates (the decree stipulates week on week off) but we ignore the decree for now on this in the interest of stability for the children.

This morning my ex called with my daughter before school and he said they had a sobering but good conversation about the situation. He laid it out for her from a man's perspective, explained sexual motivation and that who you *think* you know may actually be completely different than who someone actually is. He explained the dangers of personal identifiers online like names and addresses and location information and explained that someone could potentially take her, and that if someone were to take her he might never be able to find her.

He thinks she is starting to grasp the gravity of the situation. I am so thankful for the responses here. I had to talk myself off the ledge last night but the nanny and the ex and I had a good discussion and are on the same page about managing the behaviors and helping her understand how important safety is online. Obviously this is the first conversation of this nature and the start of what I pray will be an open dialogue. My daughter has to understand that sneaky behaviors endanger her. She seemed on board with that this morning but we will have to see.

@Augustus_McCrae what did you find as you managed through this minefield? Were your daughters able to appreciate and comprehend the reality of the online community? My greatest concern is that my daughter may not really "get" just how REAL (and potentially dangerous) people on the other end of the computer might be. Most of her friends seem to be using their real names as handles too, which strikes me as naive and high risk. My ex took the tone this morning of we can't protect you from things you don't tell us about. She seemed pretty struck by the content of the conversation but it's a journey so we will see how it goes. Bringing up girls is not for sissies.

It is harder to teach "street smarts" online. In my day "street smarts" were actually on the street and out in public venues. So very much more for youth to navigate now, and far greater opportunity for those who would deceive.

The best news is that she didn't post any pics of herself. That puts an entirely different spin on it. You must be greatly relieved.

It sounds like you and your ex are already doing a lot of things the right way. It seems that he's very involved her life. In my opinion, this is extremely important. A girl needs her Father's love. It helps her to feel secure. It also gives her an example of what a man should be, how he should act and how he treats women. My daughters (both in their 20's now) have since told me that they use me as a benchmark of what they are looking for in a man.

Kudos at working toward being at home more. During the Tech boom, I was offered a very lucrative position (stock options, Bonuses, etc). However, it would have involved travel 5 days a week. I made the decision that being around my daughters was more important than making more money. I have never regretted that decision.

There was one instance where my older daughter learned that what we were telling her was the truth with regard to the fact that you never know who is on the other end online. One of her friends developed a "relationship" with some "boy" on line. If memory serves, both my daughter and her were about 15 or 16 at the time. Her friend and this guy had exchanged messages back and forth for some time. Then they actually started making plans to meet. Thankfully, before it went any further, the "boy" admitted that he was a 35 year old married man who suddenly had an attack of conscience (thank god).

I also have to give some credit to my ex in this department. She did some things wrong, but one thing she seemed to do correctly was to promote a sense of conservative dress and modesty in our daughters. I think both of them (they are in their 20's now) seem to have a good sense of acceptable dress and they don't seem to be into flaunting their bodies for male attention. They both share the opinion that Kim Kardashian and Miley Cyrus type of behavior is slutty and trashy.

I mentioned that we had more trouble with my older daughter than the younger one. If I had to name the biggest difference it would be self esteem. For some reason, the older one never had the same sense of self esteem that the younger one did (raised the same way, same parents). And it has nothing to do with the way they look. Both of them are beautiful. The other factor is that, like her Father, the older one has a rebellious, wild streak. I'm convinced that she was just born that way. So she caused much more anxiety for us and we had to watch her more closely.

Good luck with her. It sounds like you're doing all the right things. And have faith that she'll be fine.

-Augustus-

 

[Roober]

Good luck to you! My niece struggled with this for a little bit. The more you tell her no, the more she is going to want to do it. It sounds like she has a great support system to help her understand the nature of what she may be getting into. Maybe show her some new clips or something of things that have happened?

 

[BeExcellent]

Lots of wisdom in this thread. I appreciate what each of you has said. There are some gems I wanted to specifically acknowledge and respond to since the first couple of posts.

The best news is that she didn't post any pics of herself. That puts an entirely different spin on it. You must be greatly relieved.

Hugely relieved. I praised my daughter for refraining from posting pictures of herself. In fact all their lives my children have observed my ex and I having a strict "No pictures on the internet" stance, not by the schools, not by family members, not by us. My daughter's immediate response when we talked about that was "Really Mom? I would never do that...I'm not stupid" I know it may (probably will) change...but it was a quiet victory hearing her say that emphatically (and having observed she hadn't posted pictures of herself).

one thing she seemed to do correctly was to promote a sense of conservative dress and modesty in our daughters. I think both of them (they are in their 20's now) seem to have a good sense of acceptable dress and they don't seem to be into flaunting their bodies for male attention

This was strongly emphasized in my home growing up and I emphasize it in my home now too. My daughter wears modest clothing. Rarely even a tank top. Shorts are respectable, she doesn't like short skirts (yet). She has high heels (she needs to be able to walk gracefully in them and not be a clod-hopper) but she wears them for church or to dinner with me or my ex, and she prefers flats, boots, Sambas or flip flops. I don't want heels to be something forbidden, rather they need to be something she understands have a time/place and to be comfortable in them. She loves turtlenecks and jeans or long skirts. She doesn't like wearing makeup. I'm grateful she isn't too much into high heels and makeup...she'd be raiding mine all the time (we wear the same size)!

Then they actually started making plans to meet. Thankfully, before it went any further, the "boy" admitted that he was a 35 year old married man who suddenly had an attack of conscience (thank god).

I related this story to my daughter the other evening. Her eyes got wide. We might watch some of those 20/20 sting operations so she can see just how these guys operate. I think it best to be very transparent about how the world really is. I try and explain this about relations between men and women (and that the fact some women choose to be a supportive wife should be seen as a noble thing to do - we have some really great examples here of families she knows) and I also am quite open about sex and motivations and partnership and what works and what doesn't...she rolls her eyes at me but perhaps some things sink in.

attention from men isn't always good

She sees this. I hope she always sees this. She sees that I am careful and at times even wary about men who might loiter around for example out in public. It's something my mother has a 6th sense for and so do I. As she matures she'll seek more attention from males but I hope she sees how to modulate that kind of behavior and be aware of the way in which it is received. This is important for the day when I'm not there anymore and her father isn't there anymore to guide and protect her. Which brings me to @fastlife and his post, which I find to be wise beyond his years...

1.) The ability & encouragement to feel empathy, admiration, & respect for their fathers and 2.) Having grown up in a family system that provided them a stable sense of identity, self-worth, and cooperation while also giving them enough space to hold themselves accountable for their own decisions & their own failures.

I'd set up an arrangement where she has the freedom to experiment with social media with your direct oversight & monitoring (which she won't like and which you may not like either ). Frank conversation and administrative (you & her father) intervention should follow any missteps on her part--but the frank conversation is paramount.

This is entirely true. It's training wheels for adulthood. The new landscape of social media and the internet and the medium in which youth connect and communicate is very different than in the 80s when I was a teen. It's wild how different it is. I had some great conversations with other parents we know and so has my ex...and the resounding theme of all those conversations is "you can't control it, and they need the access to be current and not behind in today's world, but you have to manage it and teach them how to be smart about it."

Shaming, judgmentalism, and heavy-handed parenting are only effective in the short term. I've met countless girls who, thanks to parental influence, were veritable saints right up until their first night of college & then found themselves in a cycle where they didn't have the tools to put checks on their own behavior & couldn't reach out to their parents for guidance due to fear of their parents' judgment and the (correct) perception that their parents couldn't possibly relate.

My aim is that our kids will grow through the training wheels and have those tools and never be ashamed to call us if they make a mistake (because they WILL) and never worry overmuch about our reaction. We have friends who have a great marriage whose teen son got busted for pot last year. It was a mistake and not a habit thankfully. The dad is one of my ex's buddies from the nightclub days so the dads *get* it and have more of a cool factor than more uptight professions (say an accountant or a teacher as examples)...but yeah, I never want my daughter thinking its OK to be drunk or high (because of likelihood of bad outcomes) do a wet t-shirt contest, be a stripper, or have a "Girls Gone Wild" attack or things like that. You can't un-do that behavior and so its best avoided. At the same time I do not want to raise a prude but a woman with a healthy sexuality. We shall see.

I am SO having some bubbly if they make it to 25 relatively unscathed. Thanks gentlemen for your kindness & advice. I am doing my level best to raise at least two young women worth wife hood over here. Cheers

 

[Once Bitten]

Good luck to you. This is an awkward world to raise children in. I was lucky and got my daughter (now 15) started in private school in K to 8th., she's finishing homeschooling. Her mom isn't in the picture. She cares more about impressing those she believes to be her "friends" and her self than anything. None of her kids showed up for her Christmas dinner. She has two sons from first husband (who taught them to make my life hell)... But the boys also know the real "her"...enough said. It's sad.
My girl gets on sites and talks to all types, but I trust her enough to do okay. My mom has helped her a lot. She was too tight on my upbringing, so she's doing somewhat better with her.

You have to let her know you believe in her abilities and choices, yet keep a watchful eye out...it's a tough balance. Maybe you know an example or two of kids gone wrong and the results, and mention it in passing at some random opportunity. These are touchy cards to play with. My neighbor was too hard on her ornery daughter, and she went wild and never changed. It's all about balance and a game face. Your love for her as her mother will help with the game face.

 

[BeExcellent]

Appreciate the perspective Once Bitten. I'm going to print & keep this thread to help me along the way.

Mark the nude was an artist rendition of a nude woman, not a photo. My daughter's settings are now private & we have blocked all the adults that were concerning. My daughter is into art but my guess is the sender was phishing for nude subject matter from her.

 

[dude99]

Thanks @bradd80 Her dad is going to chat with her about it before school tomorrow because my nanny has her password and has updated her handle to remove her name, so her friends will all see the change and mention it to her.

She only has 14 followers but already some guy has sent her artwork of a female nude.

She lies and is sneaky as a first behavior. If she thinks her dad or I is likely to say no, she lies & sneaks rather than asks.

So I appreciate your emphasis on an approach that is not aggressive or punitive. If she won't discuss things that only makes guiding her that much harder.

I know we can't keep her off the internet but sounds like we must educate her post haste to be smart and not put herself at risk.

Have her sit down and read or watch on youtube Amanda Todd's story. It is a heart breaking story of a Canadian girl who made the mistake of showing herself online to guys through her webcam, when she was only 12 years old, and these guys then sent her picture to everyone in her facebook friends list including her parents. The girl then was bullied so much over the next 3 years she comitted suicide.

Make sure she knows the difference between positive attention and negative attention and that she is fully aware of the dangers on the internet. And for the love of God make sure she keeps her clothes on in all pictures and intetnet activity. Once something is out on the net it is virtually impossible to stop or get rid of it.

 

[backbreaker]

I fingered a girl on the school bus when I was 12. Just saying


And honestly we both turned out ok she want a home she graduated from duke


I believe honesty is the best policy. Kids r gonna do what they do. Give them the facts to make the best decisions possible

 

[nikkisixx]

jenny mccarthy is my little girl and shes got a big new house waiting and a ride on dads lap at least once a month hows that?