No "the talk"

[Roober]

Fvck yes. What's wrong with you?

When she brings it up, I dodge it. They usually bring it up in a multitude of indirect ways (unless you are going out with more masculine women that give it to you more direct).

The most basic move that I use is to reflect it back on her. Force her to be overt (which she doesn't want).

In other words, give no value - just ask questions.

What do you mean? I don't know; what do you think? etc etc.

That has got me out of a lot of situations. Got me through the first couple of months plenty of times

Guys need to stop treating the talk like it's a pat on the head. Guys taking validation from this need to get a grip. It's nothing but an annoyance to circumvent.

Makes sense! Shenanigans motor on...

 

[sazc]

She's not initiating the talk because she doesn't think she is going to like the words that are contained in the conversation.

That's not your problem. She's not allowed to assume anything about you or the status of your relationship.
Fvck me. People like this drive me mad! I just want to scream TALK PEOPLE!

You need to consider if you want to spin other plates and, if she finds out, she may be hurt and leave. How potentially valuable is this connection?
I agree with what one poster said tho - if you need more info, that's definitely a red flag (unless it's been a grand total of 30 days or less that you've been seeing her)

 

[sazc]

It's completely right what the Rational Male says about this. Women are so entitled now that they don't just expect exclusivity at their whim, but they also expect the man to initiate it. Fvcking ridiculous.

The really stupid ones (read: the ones who cant communicate worth a fvck) do. IMO this is not the kind of chick that makes a good LTR. If he doesn't have the balls to have a simple conversation with you NOW, what else is going to be left unsaid if you do get exclusive?

 

[Roober]

That's complete bullsh*t. Some of the girls on their best behaviour trying to convince me to be exclusive have still left the initiating to me.

I would liken it to how a woman expects a man to propose. Same expectation.

They communicate plenty - just not directly. Which is normal.

I would suggest that those girls make far better LTR prospects than a masculine woman attempting to directly boss the frame. Same sort of woman that wants to turn the first date in to a job interview. Complete turn-off, and nothing but aggravation.

I am confused. Men don't initiate the talk, but you say the ones that want you to initiate are the better LTR prospects? But nobody is initiating?

 

[sazc]

That's complete bullsh*t. Some of the girls on their best behaviour trying to convince me to be exclusive have still left the initiating to me.

I would liken it to how a woman expects a man to propose. Same expectation.

They communicate plenty - just not directly. Which is normal.

I would suggest that those girls make far better LTR prospects than a masculine woman attempting to directly boss the frame. Same sort of woman that wants to turn the first date in to a job interview. Complete turn-off, and nothing but aggravation.

I's not complete bull****. It's a very valid different point of view. Not communicating directly is not normal, it's dysfunctional.

You can suggest whatever you want. If the ones that cant communicate work out better for you, great. If you're not the type of guy that can sit and have an honest conversation with a female, you dont appreciate it, and you view that type of interaction as a complete turn off and aggravation, then you definitely need someone who doesn't need/want/know how to do that.

It is what it is but to chuck it all to being 'complete bull$hit' IS 'complete bull$hit'

 

[sazc]

I am telling you my experience, as a man, with 16 years of having sexual relations.

Women bossing the frame right from the beginning is a massive red flag. And no, I don't appreciate a woman trying that.

Maybe a weak effeminate man who needs a more masculine woman to lead him around does.

While I dont doubt your experience, I am left wondering how you moved from me talking about a female having the balls to open her mouth and have a simple conversation about 'relationship status' and re framed it as "women bossing the frame" - unless you mistook the phrase 'having the balls' and read that as 'being confrontational' . "Having the balls" simply means 'having the guts' or 'having the strength' to have the conversation. In no way does it mean 'be aggressive' when having the conversation. Could be a slang misinterpretation between where your profile says you are located.

In any event, my take is that, a female trying to boss anything about a relationship, or the man she is partnered with, is misguided. However, if you are going to be seeing someone, getting close, and you want to/call it a relationship, you should feel comfortable enough to communicate and voice what you desire, calmly..

 

[daddymonsterpoodle]

You don't need to be actively spinning plates to make it clear that you are not exclusive. Be busy, go out by yourself or with guy friends without her. Smile and get caught looking at other women, tell her she can't come over and stay the night. Women are meant to be good at this covert stuff.

 

[sazc]

You are making the argument that women prefer direct communication, which is laughable.

I do and dont disagree with you there. The most important thing to realize is you cant make blanket statements about any group. You cant say "all women". I'm sure we can agree on that. I dont disagree with you because it seems as if the majority of people dont feel comfortable communicating their needs because they dont want to get hurt.
Because of that, everyone tries to read "signals", "signs", "body language", infer what the intent is by what is actually left unsaid, how quickly do they text back, etc?. That is where the FUN in dysfunctional actually kicks in!

Whatever floats your, his, or her boat - that doesn't mean it falls under the category or realm of being 'healthy' for people to do.

 

[sazc]

You are making the argument that women prefer direct communication, which is laughable.

Regardless of it all - dating, finding someone of quality that we really mesh with, is difficult.

 

[sazc]

The vast majority of women prefer to do things less directly.

The ones that are more direct are typically more masculine in their qualities.

You are putting down women for being feminine - calling them "dysfunctional". Not sure why, but that is what you are doing. When they function perfectly according to how nature intended.

Being straight with you, I find your argument bizarre. So you don't think that things like body language, or response time is important?

I'm not sure what the context is when you ask about response time, so I cant talk about that. Body language? Who the fvck is an expert at reading body language? Someone may literally have a resting b!tch face when they are perfectly happy...but because they have a resting b!tch face I'm supposed to 'read' their expression and assume they are b!tchy or angry? Not only is that completely error prone, but who the fvck am I thinking I am all knowing to assess someones real state in the moment.

Did you take a class in reading body language? (b/c if you did, that is a different story) Every single person has 'body language' that is specific to them. How are you going to argue that most all chicks have such common body language that you can assume one chick's mannerisms mean exactly the same as another chicks mannerisms? You cant.

I'm not putting anyone down, nor calling anyone dysfunctional, for 'being feminine'. My singular statement was that choosing to not communicate your needs, not have a conversation, and only attempting to interpret what someone is thinking, feeling, wants, based solely off of body language/non verbal communication is dysfunctional. When push comes to shove, please do not try to reassign my statements to suit your argument comebacks.

Just because you equate non verbal body language with being feminine, doesn't mean you are right. There are plenty of feminine women who also know how to conversate with their man and how to communicate their needs.

I'm glad you find my argument bizarre. Perhaps it is an angle you need to consider and ruminate about. I dont disagree with the majority of posts on this site - im not making a case that anyone is wrong in what they are posting and I definitely understand where you guys are coming from and why your thinking is shaped the way it is. There's another poster on this site that mentions that it appears that some men have little to no capacity to understand their role in everything. I dont disagree that sometimes that is the case.

In any case, none of this is as simple as you/any of you want it/make it to be. Healthy relationships involve honesty and communication. Maybe the chicks you deal with, or are most attracted to, dont know how, or wont, communicate, and that is your comfort zone. In situations like these, if two people are happy, and things are smooth, then it is safe to assume that a communication basis HAS been established, and it fits the relationship. Jut please understand that the sum total of your personal experiences do not make up entire pool of litmus tests.

Now, in the name of not hijacking, I'd be interested in reading a reply, but I'm going to let this go. Have a great night/day/etc.

 

[WitnessGR]

I've had this problem with even with my friends and close associates... I go on one date with a girl and all of a sudden I start hearing "So I heard you are dating such and such" Like no I went on A DATE there's a difference!

It is a woman's nature to be indirect and submissive, but also I would say as a whole that both men and women are scared of confrontation and "the talk" at least for me stems from me showing interest in other women or the girl hearing something from a friend, basically it comes to out of necessity.

 

[sazc]

There are two separate issues at play here.

The first is that many women are passive-aggressive when it comes to "the talk". They want the man to initiate it, but when he doesn't, they start to feel the pressure as more times passes, until eventually they are so bothered by it that they have to bring it up and put everything on the table.

The other issue is that many men are afraid to draw the line right from the beginning, which is why exactly they end up in these "we need to talk" situations down the road. They're basically doing the same thing as the woman is; avoiding the topic an hoping it all plays out they way they want it to.

I don't have an issue telling women very early on that I'm not looking for an exclusive relationship if that's not what I'm looking for. Yes, sometimes women run off once they hear that, which is another reason many guys avoid drawing that line, but I'm fine with it. There are plenty of women out there who will be cool with it too.

Once that point is established, all sex from that point on occurs with that understanding. I'm absolved of all exclusive expectations.

This is ideal. I wish more men would do this. I understand that they probably dont because they fear loosing the poontang, but more will come along. I'm a huge believer in the idea that, one you get totally honest about who you are and how you operate, the universe will only send you people/situations that match that - meaning, if a guy isnt looking for a relationship, and is honest about that upfront, eventually he will attract females that are of like mind.

 

[wifehunter]

But, wouldn't being upfront about nonexclusivity, be bringing up relationship talk before she does?

 

[Juanto]

This is ideal. I wish more men would do this. I understand that they probably dont because they fear loosing the poontang, but more will come along. I'm a huge believer in the idea that, one you get totally honest about who you are and how you operate, the universe will only send you people/situations that match that - meaning, if a guy isnt looking for a relationship, and is honest about that upfront, eventually he will attract females that are of like mind.

What about simply telling a woman in the beginning " lets just see where this goes", meaning no promises or expectations. Maybe further down the line it can end in a relationship, maybe it wont. Even us sometimes arent looking for one and we end up entering a relationship.

 

[sazc]

But, wouldn't being upfront about nonexclusivity, be bringing up relationship talk before she does?

sure but that's easily dismissed by saying "it's just too early to talk about that"

 

[sazc]

Women generally want to jump into a relationship quickly, this makes men uneasy. You guys like to see what she's really all about before you attach yourself to her, which is understandable, the issue generally arises when the guy wants to $ex during the "getting to know you" period.

 

[daddymonsterpoodle]

, the issue generally arises when the guy wants to $ex during the "getting to know you" period.

That is one thing we want to get to know about you. If you aren't compatible in the sack, everything else is going to fall apart too.
Until then everything else can feel like filling in time.

 

[stevo]

Don't confuse men logic for women emotions.

A woman assumes a relationship based on how you fcuk her and how many ppl are fcuking her.

If you fcuk a woman passionately, date her, eat with her, be seen outside with her, share emotions and personal stories with her and you're the only one fcuking her, YOU ARE IN A RELATIONSHIP.

If you fcuk a woman like a plate -- meaning you bust a nut, kick the beech out, don't see her outside of seks, don't spill any form of emotional declaration,
keep your childhood memories to yourself, she would want more. Hence, the qxtn "are you fcuking/seeing anyone else?"

Why would you see a woman almost every day and think you're not in a relationship?

Many LTRs do not involve "the talk", both people go from dating to spending more time together, to "simply knowing we were a couple" and declaring the "ILYs"

Being a good leader means never confusing your follower. Try not to trigger LTR feelings with a beech you don't want LT.

 

[wifehunter]

"getting to know you" period.

Yeah, I wish! These ladies subconsciously know the game, and constantly maintain mystery and put up resistance.

It's hard to get to know someone who isn't open in the first place. Plus, gaming in public environments is tough, because they always have their guard up.

Breaking down these barriers is fuking tiring. I've put way too much energy into it. I'm done for now. She better have some incentive, other than a pretty face and a hot body, which are a dime a dozen where I'm at.

"Charms are deceptive, and beauty is vain"

 

[sazc]

That is one thing we want to get to know about you. If you aren't compatible in the sack, everything else is going to fall apart too.
Until then everything else can feel like filling in time.

yep, I understand. It's truly a negotiating point. It's definitely a situation that requires the woman to speak up and get things clear (if she needs to) beforehand. The onus is not exclusively on men. This is why I am baffled at women who spread, and then come back at a guy confused about not getting her needs met. it's pretty hard to meet someones needs when they havent been communicated.