does holding a strong frame mean never losing a woman?

[btownbuck2012]

I'd be curious to hear from a-lot of the old vets on this forum.

When we talk about Marriage, if you hold a strong frame with your woman, does this always prevent her from leaving, having an affair, etc.? Or are there some women who no matter how strongly you hold the frame, their overall attitude and views on life, sex and relationships makes them a riskier investment than a girl with a more conservative set of values?

The reason I ask is because this girl that recently ended things with me was someone who I felt I held a pretty solid frame with, i.e she would buy me things, always text me first, always come to me, etc. However, she was also a self proclaimed feminist who would every now and then slip comments into our conversations about how women are oppressed, misunderstood and all that horse sh*t. However, the biggest red flag that literally floored me was when she said "Divorce will always be an option for me even if I have children".

Throughout our relationship I would call her out on this kind of stuff, but I really let her have it after the divorce comment and afterwards she went cold on me which eventually led to the breakup.

I read stuff online all the time about men whose wives have "turned on them". Is the key finding a woman who comes from a good home with good values AND to hold the frame in a strong masculine way? Or if you're doing it right, can you keep any woman with this mindset? Even the "you go girl!" feminist types?

I've pretty much concluded that marriage probably isn't for me, but for those of you guys on the forum who are and/or have been married, can you shed some insight into this for me?

 

[BeExcellent]

You want a woman who will submit, defer, follow, support, listen & love you. Even if she could lead her own life without you. A woman who seeks & chooses your leadership, appreciates & respects you.

A feminine (not feminist) woman.

You didn't have that. Your frame & convictions saved you from being her b1tch. So kudos there.

Traditional family background is a solid place to start looking. Not fool proof but solid.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

There a lot of different pieces to this puzzle:

Holding a strong frame

The meaning of that frame

Sorting

You need to SORT for the right women, which means identifying red flags as EARLY as possible, based on YOUR subjective desires and experiences.

You need to KNOW the MEANING of your frame. (E.g. our relationship = xyz)

You need to be able to hold to that frame when it is tested (no, actually our relationship = abc).

You also need to know the difference between FRAME TESTS that secretly hope to VALIDATE your frame (she's testing because she wants to make sure and she HOPES your frame holds)

And those tests where she really WANTS to break your frame (she wants to assert her dominance over you)

Ain't easy. But every time it DOESN'T work out, see what you can learn from the experience, and which of the above you could have done better.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

ALL women do not want a dominating man, even in secret, they wanna be in control. So when you hold a strong frame they will do everything they can to not show submission.

The thing about having a strong frame and core set of values is you WONT LOSE YOU if the woman walks.

 

[The Duke]

I'd be curious to hear from a-lot of the old vets on this forum.

When we talk about Marriage, if you hold a strong frame with your woman, does this always prevent her from leaving, having an affair, etc.? Or are there some women who no matter how strongly you hold the frame, their overall attitude and views on life, sex and relationships makes them a riskier investment than a girl with a more conservative set of values?

The reason I ask is because this girl that recently ended things with me was someone who I felt I held a pretty solid frame with, i.e she would buy me things, always text me first, always come to me, etc. However, she was also a self proclaimed feminist who would every now and then slip comments into our conversations about how women are oppressed, misunderstood and all that horse sh*t. However, the biggest red flag that literally floored me was when she said "Divorce will always be an option for me even if I have children".

Throughout our relationship I would call her out on this kind of stuff, but I really let her have it after the divorce comment and afterwards she went cold on me which eventually led to the breakup.

I read stuff online all the time about men whose wives have "turned on them". Is the key finding a woman who comes from a good home with good values AND to hold the frame in a strong masculine way? Or if you're doing it right, can you keep any woman with this mindset? Even the "you go girl!" feminist types?

I've pretty much concluded that marriage probably isn't for me, but for those of you guys on the forum who are and/or have been married, can you shed some insight into this for me?

What has been mentioned above is solid advice. But here’s another thought…..why worry about losing her? There are no guarantees no matter how strong your frame is and how great you are. Women are emotional creatures, you can’t always engineer/predict/control/direct the outcome. There will always be outlying factors beyond your control. There will be times in your life when you are preoccupied with your job, hobby, other people, etc and turn your attention away from your relationship. She will do the same.


Anymore, I simply do the best I can. I try and make the most of my time with them and enjoy life to the fullest. Because at my age I’ve learned nothing lasts forever. Eventually the ride comes to a stop. You have to exit and find a new one to climb aboard.


Our society places little value on long term commitments, virgins, staying at the same job for 10+yrs, and things that last a lifetime. Single mom’s are honored(there was a time when they were looked down upon).


It’s a throw-a-way world. We don’t fix anything, just tear it down, start over, or replace it with something better. It doesn’t matter if its cars, houses, or people! There’s little honor and loyalty. Marriage is a broken tool. Court systems are against you. Its best to understand all of this and develop skills needed to stay resilient. Do things to protect YOUR best interest, not hers.


As far as ltr’s go:

I kept a pretty strong frame in my marriage to an HB8. We did a lot of things over the years, had a lot of good times. She moved up the corporate ladder, started making good money like I was, we spent less time working on our relationship, she probably got a little bored with the familiarity that naturally develops over time. She definitely liked attention. She ended up meeting a vendor at her work. Started messing around with him. There’s always a line of men waiting to get their shot at a hot girl.


I recently had a 5yr relationship end. She was an HB8, made decent money, somewhat insecure, had some old school values instilled from her grandparents. Very loyal. She had never been married and wanted it badly. She was a pretty solid candidate for wife material. I kept a very strong frame at all times and she respected me for it. I taught that girl a ton about life, and how to keep her emotions/feelings/thoughts in check. In the end she held resentment against me for not being excited about getting married and once that develops its tough to overcome. She was willing to sign a prenup, but at the end of the day I didn’t see what I would gain thru marriage. I always worried that once she got what she wanted which was marriage…..then what? There was nothing there to drive good behavior if I gave her marriage and that bothered me a little. She knew marriage wasn’t something I truly wanted so she left.

 

[guru1000]

Even with the best stock and strongest frame, there are no guarantees of success. Set your expectations accordingly. If you wish to maximize your chances for a successful LTR:

1) Vet and pick a worthy contender;
2) Hold true to your frame.

Ensure your frame is meritorious, and serves your and her needs. Holding firm to a frame that is misplaced could be just as damaging as surrendering your frame.

 

[zekko]

Guru's right, there are no guarantees. There is no technique that gives you 100% success. Life has its ups and downs, you need to learn to roll with the good times and rebound from the failures.

 

[EyeBRollin]

Yep, Guru is spot on.

Women do the choosing. Your job is to be the best man you can be.

 

[YawataNoKami]

For me frame= self respect.

 

[Alvafe]

I guess the main issue here is the word all woman, and no, some will not don't matter what, we can only try to choose one who will stick around,

 

[sodbuster]

I've held frame and lost women. Keeping them or losing them has nothing to do with frame. BUT frame has much to do with how much of "you" is left when she leaves. I had a woman who had a cat and feather pillows {allergic to both}. I told her neither one will ever be in my life. When she was talking about moving in, it ended when I told her about the cat and pillows for the second time. BUT I wasn't out anything but some tail

 

[marmel75]

No it means you are willing to walk away from ANY woman, and if she doesn't want to lose you then she will play by the rules.

 

[Alvafe]

I always consider the frame thing as a way for not lose yourself.

in the same way woman will come and go the smart one will want you, if not pretty sure that hotter girl will

 

[latinnova]

Not always, depends on the woman. Just like everything else in life, things lose their luster. Though you will still have plenty of respect from her, she can actually run for another reason, dread. The reason being is that she is always anxious about losing you to another woman. That can rip some women up from the inside out and they will need to get out of a relationship just because of that. Their jealousy can run so deep that in the end they need to leave because they can't take the mind **** every time you are away on business or what ever the hell you do when you are not with her. So while she still is attached to the idea of the alpha male, she can't cope with the thought of other competitors always wanting you. Been there done that. Women are all kinds of weird.

To me frame is your principles. My father once told me "Son, set your principles in place now and you will make life so easy for yourself because you will rarely have to choose what to do since you already made your choices." This applies to relationships too. Set your principles in place, and under no circumstances what so ever, ever do you deviate from those principles. If there has been a girl that I have been seeing and we eventually begin a to get serious, I lay out my expectations right there in then. At that point she has the option of staying in the relationship or to get out, because I lay out exactly what I have to offer and what I expect. I have stood firm to those values, and life is easy. If the girl walks, that is ok, because she was no longer complimenting my set of principles, and if that's the case then she is not enhancing my life and it is best if she goes.

 

[Tenacity]

When we talk about Marriage, if you hold a strong frame with your woman, does this always prevent her from leaving, having an affair, etc.?

Remember this is the Manosphere, where a bunch of anonymous guys get together to discuss cartoon character like situations, outcomes, and actions rather than REALITY BASED outcomes that you can properly plan for.

With that being said, "the frame" to ME has always been about controlling the aspects that make you attractive to a woman in general. That's keeping your looks together, personality together, good conversational flow, having nice comebacks to jabs, keeping your finances together, fvcking your woman good in bed, etc.

This is pretty much ALL you can control.

But let many here in the Manosphere tell it, you ought to be this cartoon character that controls his woman's thoughts, actions, motives, etc., at all times. There is an aspect where a woman RESPECTS you and chooses to FOLLOW YOU, but I do not believe that means you have some sort of mind-fvck control over her. It just means she sees you as the superior being in the relationship and allows you (notice I said ALLOWS) you to lead her.

Some women want to be led, some women want 50/50, some women want to LEAD. All you can really control is your attraction traits, if the chick wants you to LEAD her she will clearly display that non-verbally and verbally. If the chick prefers 50/50 balance, or if the chick would prefer she lead and you be more of her bytch, she will non-verbally and verbally express that.

That's the reality of how this stuff goes.

The reason I ask is because this girl that recently ended things with me was someone who I felt I held a pretty solid frame with, i.e she would buy me things, always text me first, always come to me, etc. However, she was also a self proclaimed feminist who would every now and then slip comments into our conversations about how women are oppressed, misunderstood and all that horse sh*t. However, the biggest red flag that literally floored me was when she said "Divorce will always be an option for me even if I have children".

Throughout our relationship I would call her out on this kind of stuff, but I really let her have it after the divorce comment and afterwards she went cold on me which eventually led to the breakup.

This is a type of woman who wants to lead, not be led. That's why she was buying you a lot of things, she wants you to play more of the bytch in the relationship. When I say playing the "bytch", I'm not saying that in a way to DISS you, I'm saying that in terms of the role within the relationship dynamic.

Some chicks like to lead, some like 50/50, and some like to be lead. No matter which of the three situations you are in with the chick, if she's FVCKING you, then she finds you attractive and that's pretty much the only "frame" you can control....which is your attractive traits.

I read stuff online all the time about men whose wives have "turned on them". Is the key finding a woman who comes from a good home with good values AND to hold the frame in a strong masculine way? Or if you're doing it right, can you keep any woman with this mindset? Even the "you go girl!" feminist types?

It depends again on the woman and the dynamic of the relationship for one. Then two, understand the issue with marriage today is that people CHANGE and that men and women no longer need each other for survival. So in 2016 you guys could get married as everything right now is all set, but by 2026, she could have changed due to some circumstance, you could have changed, and the marriage could be at risk due to two people going into different directions.

Marriage worked 50 years ago and prior because men and women NEEDED each other for survival. We don't need each other anymore. Marriage today is nothing but a "dating relationship" with a government contract tied to it.

 

[speed dawg]

Marriage worked 50 years ago and prior because men and women NEEDED each other for survival. We don't need each other anymore. Marriage today is nothing but a "dating relationship" with a government contract tied to it.

Make no mistake, we still do, to live the best life. We have WAY too much freedom to think about these things, at least in the first world.

I recently heard a guy say that high testosterone isn't needed anymore in the 'modern' world. I just shook my head. Don't fall victim to this type of thinking. The world may change, what is real, stays real.

 

[ZTIME]

Your core belief of who you are and what you want to do to solidify yourself in all aspects of life (physically, financially, mentally, and socially) is considered your "frame".

It is your responsibility to make sure that all things you do lead to the enrichment of becoming who you choose to be.

People will come and go in your life, some stay longer than others but none have the ability to bring you down as long as you stay true to YOUR core belifes.

Do not judge the actions of others as a sign of whether you're right or wrong. They all have agendas of their own which may not line up with yours.

Enjoy your surroundings, your time with others,
Your relationships, and your life. Do it confidentially knowing that you are exactly who you want to be.

Anything else would be a disservice to you.

 

[btownbuck2012]

Really appreciate all the responses. Very insightful and helpful.

 

[Tenacity]

Really appreciate all the responses. Very insightful and helpful.

Also something else to add to this discussion.

If you are just looking for a sex and companionship type of deal, where it's mainly some sort of short term thing you are looking for (even if it's a short term relationship) then there's no need to be so FIRM in terms of your criteria.

Basically you can get a "feel" for the girl in terms of managing her going forward. You would basically alter aspects of your personality depending on the girl. I'm not saying to be fake, but one girl in particular might like to see more of the "thug" in you, another might like to see more of the "jokester", another might want to see more of the "intellectual", another might want you to damn near be her bytch, another might want you to "spoil her" by spending some money on her. Some want you to take the lead, some want you to support her lead, some want a balance of 50/50.

In terms of long term relationships, you have to pick the type of chick that more aligns with who you are the majority of the time. So if you are the intellectual most of the time, that's the chick you would put more time into to develop something long term.

Just some notes from my personal experience. I always preach that being attractive will be increasing your efficiency in Looks, Personality and Finances. Looks and Finances will be universal from girl to girl, but your Personality will need to be adjusted depending on the girl you are talking to.

Again this goes against a lot of the cartoon like advice you will get on Sosuave about NEXTing every god damn thing in the room. If you aren't looking to settle down into a long term relationship, there's just really no reason to be NEXTing every god damn thing. Have some fun and get laid for goodness sakes. There's going to come a time when you are 55 - 60 years old and your dyck will no longer work without a viagra pill providing assistance. So while that motherfvcker still WORKS, use it!

 

[BeTheChange]

^ And this thinking is why you are still in a rut brother.

Allowing sub-standard women into your life for the purposes of a quick nut.