On what values is American society based?

[speed dawg]

I saw this quote in a thread on another message board:

Do you pine for the days of women without votes and the coloreds in the fields?

Of course you don't, but thats as much a part of our country's history as "christian values."

Over time, we evolve. We get less stupid, and realize that descriminating against groups of people that are causing no harm is wrong.

The founding fathers did great things, but were by no means perfect. The intentions of a group of 200+ year dead white men should matter 0% when it comes to what is best for a modern society.

To me, it seems as if our very society, and everything we know, was based on Christian values and principles, from the very beginning. Laws, crimes, everything. The country has prospered right up until the mid 20th century, which we inexplicably decided that Christian values were not needed, and we have declined ever since. We have seen the same things happen in many great societies. So why is this 'modern society' so attractive?

 

[Tictac]

Judeo-Christian values were the values of the '200 year old, dead white men' brought to the writing of the US Constitution. But they carefully and on purposes excluded religion from our foundation documents, which was smart. They also made sure that if we effed up, it would be recorded (per Prohibition and it's repeal)

I love people like the writer of your quote that think they are smarter than everyone else. The closest example we have of a a document of what's 'best for a modern society' is the Weimar Constitution. Who doesn't know how that turned out?

People that want a document written in the 1700s to reflect modern sentiments are idiots. Better a document of foundation law that can change.

Don't touch the US Constitution except by the prescribed means of amendment. Times do change. We, our Constitution, our laws and our culture have evolved with it.

 

[speed dawg]

Don't touch the US Constitution except by the prescribed means of amendment. Times do change. We, our Constitution, our laws and our culture have evolved with it.

What baffles me the most is, when you look at our society vs. all the other non-Christian societies throughout history, why would you literally FIGHT to change our society into their's? It blows my mind. What is desirable about that? You won't get Christianity pushed on you as hard? You won't feel 'judged'? You are willing to trade that for the 3rd world?

I can't help but laugh at the 'problems' people in American society think they have.

 

[SeymourCake]

Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

So why is this 'modern society' so attractive?

My opinion. All societies collapse, for pretty much the same reason. Governments just get too big, and their "skim" takes away too much from productivity.

One of the mechanisms of that is people would rather be in the government (guaranteed salary, get to tell people what to do, etc) so they use ANY REASON possible.

That our current iteration of collapse is coinciding with the I-want-to-be-in-charge types that are ANTI CHRISTIAN isn't really about christianity. Because all of the wanna-be-leaders can ONLY justify "change" by complaining against the current state of society. Since "our" society was founded by christain white males, THOSE are the targets of today's wanna be leaders. The ONLY WAY they can justify THEM being added to the government (and being able to tell people what to do) is come up with ANY REASON POSSIBLE to complain about the "founding" ideas.

If the U.S.A had been founded by Asian Buddhists, and had been succesful for 200 years, Asian Buddhists would be the ones getting slammed today.

 

[Maximus Rex]

White men founded the country, but their core morals, value, and belief system emanates from God, who gave the Torah to Moses, and Moses looked liked the people depicted on artwork in Tutankhamen's tomb.

 

[Bible_Belt]

Well, maybe. Those are Egyptians. Moses was a Hebrew. No one was making paintings of slaves at the time, so no one really knows what Moses looked like.

 

[ChrisFloyd]

Well, maybe. Those are Egyptians. Moses was a Hebrew. No one was making paintings of slaves at the time, so no one really knows what Moses looked like.

Maybe he wore a black mask all the time, so peeps could not see his whole face except for those eyes and mouth.

 

[Maximus Rex]

Well, maybe. Those are Egyptians. Moses was a Hebrew.

Moses was raised as a member of the Egyptian royal family, somebody who didn't look like a member of the Egyptian royal family didn't stand out.

No one was making paintings of slaves at the time,

Ancient Egyptian slaves.

so no one really knows what Moses looked like.

As far a definitive answer as to what Moses looked like no, but I can pretty much assure that he damn sure didn't look like,

or

 

[Bible_Belt]

The Egyptians enslaved countless people over centuries:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ancient_Egyptian_dynasties

So the slave paintings could be anyone, not necessarily Hebrews.

Whether or not they looked similar, the Egyptians are the bad guys, according to the Bible. The were trying to exterminate the Israelites. But since the Israelites are God's chosen people, they are immune from oppression by even the most powerful worldly powers, even when it doesn't look that way. That's the point.

Moses, who is Pharoah's undoing, was saved from the river by Pharoah's daughter. The Bible does that quite frequently. Having a woman get the best of a man is meant to be especially humiliating.

 

[yuppee]

Charleton Heston WAS the NRA. Moses was on our side, until God called him home.

 

[speed dawg]

White men founded the country, but their core morals, value, and belief system emanates from God, who gave the Torah to Moses, and Moses looked liked the people depicted on artwork in Tutankhamen's tomb.

The Israelites (God's chosen people) were Jews. Their skin tones were brown, similar to the Middle Easterners of today. That really can't be disputed. So check your black power and white hate at the door. We all came from that, which is pretty much a balance of every race you see today. That's my belief anyway, which is pretty much based on the observations of the Bible.

Moving on, this isn't a color thing. It's about the removal of God from society, which is ridiculous because societies founded of Christian principles are the societies that thrive. 'Developing' does not mean 'thriving' by the way.

 

[speed dawg]

My opinion. All societies collapse, for pretty much the same reason. Governments just get too big, and their "skim" takes away too much from productivity.

One of the mechanisms of that is people would rather be in the government (guaranteed salary, get to tell people what to do, etc) so they use ANY REASON possible.

That our current iteration of collapse is coinciding with the I-want-to-be-in-charge types that are ANTI CHRISTIAN isn't really about christianity. Because all of the wanna-be-leaders can ONLY justify "change" by complaining against the current state of society. Since "our" society was founded by christain white males, THOSE are the targets of today's wanna be leaders. The ONLY WAY they can justify THEM being added to the government (and being able to tell people what to do) is come up with ANY REASON POSSIBLE to complain about the "founding" ideas.

If the U.S.A had been founded by Asian Buddhists, and had been succesful for 200 years, Asian Buddhists would be the ones getting slammed today.

Yeah, I happen to believe envy and jealousy are the founding elements of any liberal movement. And the things you mention cannot exist until a society reaches such a point of decadence, that we start worrying about such trivial issues. It's unfortunate that we can't stay hungry, and drive to bigger heights. Instead, we are worried about social justice.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

Yeah, I happen to believe envy and jealousy are the founding elements of any liberal movement.

Case in point. Guy Fawkes is supposedly some super-hero libertarian freedom lover who wanted to blow up parliament (the only guy who entered parliament with good intentions) but the REAL STORY is his group (he was just the dude who was supposed to guard the dynamite, got caught, gave up his buddies, and then hung himself. Later his story was fictionalized to become what it is today).

His group just wanted to kill the dudes in charge and replace them with their OWN dudes.

Most everything we know is heavily SPUN by somebody.

 

[Julian]

at the top?satantic/evil/subversive values no doubt. infiltrated to the highest possible offices of religions and government and business.

 

[Bokanovsky]

The Israelites (God's chosen people) were Jews. Their skin tones were brown, similar to the Middle Easterners of today. That really can't be disputed. So check your black power and white hate at the door.

The ancient Israelites were phenotypically similar to the modern day populations of the Levant (i.e. Syrians, Lebanese, etc.) In others words, they were darker than Europeans but lighter than, say, Arabs from the Gulf States. They had no resemblances to sub-saharan Africans whatsoever.

 

[Von]

How did a ''What are American Society values'' topic turned into a Hebrew with a God vs Egypt topic....

Anyway we all know America was based on GOD: Gun Oil Dollars

The people who came to make the New World aka America-Canada etc... where Criminals, Religious Extremist (Puritans in the US case), Adventurers, Exile, Commercants.

Read Alexis Tocqueville book ''Democracy in America''... It inspired alot of work for the American and French Constitution (cause you guys share the same republican ideals).

As an outsider, I would say Americans values are : Individuality, Commerce, Proudness

Also Americans are known to be the most religious of the Western World