Reasons for Marriage

[BetterCallSaul]

Wow, this thread really went sideways.

I married my wife because I chose to get married. It was not her idea; it was mine. I can openly own the decision I made because I'm the man. I stand by my decision. It's all too easy for people to say they made a mistake these days and call it quits when things get rough in their relationship. Plenty of men today will take that route rather than admitting that maybe their decision-making wasn't or isn't the best and they need to re-evaluate how they choose a woman. No one puts a gun to your head and forces you to get married.

I realize that my being here on SS as a married guy, I'm in the minority of all the posters here. That's fine. It was my hope when I joined that I could provide some help to guys who are looking for LTRs or even marriage and share some of the struggles and pains I've had to get through. But being here on SS takes up maybe 30 minutes of my time on average per week. The rest of my time at home involves interacting and socializing with our mutual friends who are also married, and happily married I might add. I know what the divorce rate is in this country, but its important to me that our kids see how a properly functioning marriage works because I guarantee that they will be bombarded with all sorts of crap when they are adults regarding divorces because I already am now.

 

[logicallefty]

@BetterCallSaul it's good to have people in your situation around.. Perhaps you could enlighten the community on the methods of your success in finding just the right woman?

In specific, and correct me if I am wrong gentlemen, but I think the big void that 90+% of us here on SS experience isn't so much "What efforts can we do to make a marriage\LTR work for the long haul?", but rather "What efforts can we do to find the right woman to start with so the relationship doesn't have to be so much effort, hardship, and biggest of all, so much risk? " Do I even need to list the risks that come to man for hooking up with the wrong\the average woman these days? I don't think I do, we all know what they are..

As for me, I've learned to protect myself from as much risk as possible, but it took over 35 years and a A LOT of personal loss. Be nice if we could have some of our younger DJs here have a bit easier of a road to their relationship goals than some of us older guys have had. That would really put the crown on this site if that really could happen. And in time, perhaps it will.

 

[speed dawg]

I'm very much aware of that. The point of my post was to identify the reasons people get married TODAY.

1) Tax benefits (which aren't many, like I said before) or legalities with foreign brides
2) Social acceptance
3) Stupidity

As usual, this thread has gone off the rails with things that don't matter (IN MY OPINION). Who cares about feminism and all that, I just look at facts. You don't need marriage to keep your partner there (as others have alluded to) because they can leave anytime they want. As yuppee/gunkid says, he does it for financial purposes with foreign women or whatever, which is sorta dumb IMO. You have to try really hard to game the system in that way.

 

[Colossus]

Was it her idea to get married?

It wasn't anyone's "idea"; we both wanted the same thing in life. I asked her but it was more of a conversation, not a contrived down-on-one-knee thing.

I agree with a lot of what you said about marriage, but outside of having children, I see the government's version of it as interference. I can understand wanting to make vows before God, family, and even clergy. I find government's intertwining in romantic relationships to be meddlesome. Let's face it: It's a mafia looking for its tribute, and it'll look for it again if you split up.

Anyway Colossus, we've agreed on a lot of stuff on these boards, but it's interesting that our shoes are on the other foot, so to speak. I can read a little solipsism in both of our opinions on this, lol. I am happy for you and anyone in a healthy and loving marriage!

You know in some ways I agree with you. Originally I wanted to just do a "less-then-legal" ceremony; meaning a wedding with our families but without an actual marriage license. The more I looked into it, the less sense it made. If you try to flip the government the bird the get you one way or another. In my state (and many others I suspect), if a couple lives together, refers to each other as husband and wife, wears rings, had a ceremony, etc---they are married in the state's eyes. So it would be moot, AND we wouldn't get any of the legal benefits like tax breaks, certain insurance, power of attorney for healthcare decisions, etc.

I did not do a pre-nup with her because I have no significant assets to protect. Yeah I make a lot more money but a pre-nup doesn't protect that prospectively. This was my decision---she was on board as well if it made me feel more comfortable.

If marriage is something a guy wants, I think a good metric is to find the girl who will stay with you even if you told her you will never ever sign a marriage license. That's a "ride or die" woman, and the one you want.

It's not for everyone, and in most modern cases I think the risks outweigh the benefits. My circumstances are somewhat unique and like I said, if it weren't my wife, I'd probably not marry.

 

[Tenacity]

In specific, and correct me if I am wrong gentlemen, but I think the big void that 90+% of us here on SS experience isn't so much "What efforts can we do to make a marriage\LTR work for the long haul?", but rather "What efforts can we do to find the right woman to start with so the relationship doesn't have to be so much effort, hardship, and biggest of all, so much risk? " Do I even need to list the risks that come to man for hooking up with the wrong\the average woman these days? I don't think I do, we all know what they are..

While I think that's a good question, the issue (in my opinion solely) is within the assumption that the "right woman" even exists to where you can properly risk mitigate the risks in relation to the marriage contract.

I just personally do not believe any such woman exists, because again, if the relationship is based on emotion and entertainment.....and not based on survival......then any woman at any time can change her mind and want to opt out of the engagement. With No-Fault Divorce Amendments now being included within the martial laws, if you just wake up one day and aren't "feeling it anymore", then you can leave. You don't actually need a reason to leave.

A lot of guys who are married talk about this concept of "being a man" or maintaining "traditional roles", again, all of that is based on your personal level of emotion and entertainment. "Being A Man" is nothing but some emotional, touchy feely, feel goodery type of stuff that a guy uses to "beat his chest" to I guess say how much he's better than those other guys who refuse to quote, unquote "man up".

Again, all of that is nothing but feel goodery type of stuff, none of that is based on any type of need based, survival foundation. Marriages WORKED back in the day because they HAD TO WORK, the people had no choice but to stay together through thick/thin, better/worse, good times/bad times, spousal abuse/no spousal abuse, wife gets fat/wife doesn't get fat, husband cheats/husband doesn't cheat. You had no CHOICE but to stay together because you couldn't survive without the other spouse.

We are NEVER going to get back to that.

 

[BetterCallSaul]

Ok, before I go any further, based on some of the familiar posters here whom I've read over the last year or so, do you want a LTR with a woman? Based on what I see in this thread, and also combined with posts I recall in other threads, I suspect the answer for many of you is 'no.'

Now don't answer with a whole laundry list of whining about conditions, if's and's or but's, just simple yes or no please.

 

[BeExcellent]

Why can't you do all of this without marriage paperwork?

Because you are making a contract to do something for the other person that has real value. If a woman gives up her ability to go support herself and handle her affairs independently in her own life to serve as your wife that has value. It's her job to be your wife in essence.

Now obviously there are lots of examples where the woman doesn't hold up her end of the bargain. But at it's core this is what the contractual part of the marriage is about. That's why gf without paperwork is NOT the same thing.

I mean you could go to work without pay too, but why would you? Likewise why would a woman agree to stay home, not work, not earn and be self-sufficient on her own without some sort of contract? Why would she bear your children for you and raise them in such a case? I know people do it, but this is the value exchange I'm talking about.

I'm discussing the traditional type marriage here since the post is titled "Reasons for Marriage". There actually are some valid reasons. But I agree wholeheartedly that the success of the marriage has everything to do with you as well as who you pick to wed.

My Dad equates it to a business partnership. He says you want to be extremely cautious who you get into a partnership arrangement with and that you need an excellent partnership agreement, because if they go south, they can go south badly. Same for marriage as I think we are all aware.

I'm not sure I'd marry again frankly. I've had children so that is done, and I would need to keep some sort of an active role in my business affairs. I'd be fine at this point with a LTR with someone worth being involved with and nothing further. But if being married was important to him I'd seriously consider it for the right man. And I would strive to be like my friend in CA, to make his life better, support him, and be his right hand gal.

 

[Yewki]

I did not do a pre-nup with her because I have no significant assets to protect.

What if you accumulate wealth over the next 30-40 years?

 

[CMNILS87]

What if you accumulate wealth over the next 30-40 years?

Exactly -------^. My uncles brother was married, made millions doing advertising and she filed for divorce and took away somewhere north of 5 million after 10 years of marriage. Explain to me the hardships she endured that she should get half his assets?

 

[speed dawg]

Because you are making a contract to do something for the other person that has real value. If a woman gives up her ability to go support herself and handle her affairs independently in her own life to serve as your wife that has value. It's her job to be your wife in essence.

Now obviously there are lots of examples where the woman doesn't hold up her end of the bargain. But at it's core this is what the contractual part of the marriage is about. That's why gf without paperwork is NOT the same thing.

I mean you could go to work without pay too, but why would you? Likewise why would a woman agree to stay home, not work, not earn and be self-sufficient on her own without some sort of contract? Why would she bear your children for you and raise them in such a case? I know people do it, but this is the value exchange I'm talking about.

I'm discussing the traditional type marriage here since the post is titled "Reasons for Marriage". There actually are some valid reasons. But I agree wholeheartedly that the success of the marriage has everything to do with you as well as who you pick to wed.

My Dad equates it to a business partnership. He says you want to be extremely cautious who you get into a partnership arrangement with and that you need an excellent partnership agreement, because if they go south, they can go south badly. Same for marriage as I think we are all aware.

I'm not sure I'd marry again frankly. I've had children so that is done, and I would need to keep some sort of an active role in my business affairs. I'd be fine at this point with a LTR with someone worth being involved with and nothing further. But if being married was important to him I'd seriously consider it for the right man. And I would strive to be like my friend in CA, to make his life better, support him, and be his right hand gal.

You don't need the contract. The woman would still be a common law wife.

It's all about the free will. The contract is all about the assets and taxes and such. That's what gay marriage was all about, not being 'married', but the division of assets.

 

[logicallefty]

Nothing that a good shovel, some private land, and a good waterproof case can't solve. cash buries nicely. Look online for a small "communications hand hole" that are used on any new fiber optic builds these days. Water proof and lockable. Who would think one of them would have cash in it huh?

 

[Tenacity]

I did not do a pre-nup with her because I have no significant assets to protect. Yeah I make a lot more money but a pre-nup doesn't protect that prospectively.

Who was your attorney? This makes no sense. A Pre-nup is designed to set aside certain assets that were accumulated, started, created, in place, etc., before the marriage agreement was formed. There is indeed a way to take certain income streams, cashflows, as well as other assets that were already formed before the marriage agreement and set them to the side in terms of not being used during a divorce proceeding.

Now, a pre-nup could be cancelled if you allow your woman to be a stay at home wife, because if she seeks a divorce then she will argue that her marketplace skills have been destroyed during the time of being a stay at home wife.

Guys why in the hell are you guys still getting married today? Seriously....as a "business guy" it makes the back of my neck itch for so many of you guys NOT to see just how BAD a business deal this marriage contract is. The contract makes no sense, getting married makes no sense, and you get NO benefits from the marriage that you can't get outside of it (you don't need to get married to get more tax deductions).

 

[LiveFreeX]

You guys are really looking at the negatives here:

Marriage for citizenship - Gives you a work visa/family visa or access to a completey different market. Some countries have better benefits than others.

Marriage for culture - Gives your children access to a more masculine culture so that they have a bigger world to belong to.

Marriage for ownership of the female - You buy a dog, why can't you buy a female? Dog bites you, replace him, same with wife.

Marriage for stability - Whilst it may not be a physical thing that you can have, it does give some security knowing that no matter where you are, your wife will be there to look out for your well being in some capacity.

Marriage for children - What child doesn't want his mother and father to be married? Lets be honest now, every kid. A STRAIGHT marriage means that both parties have a vested interest in maintaining a family structure and making a concentrated effort to be more successful with their lives. What child wouldn't benefit from having BOTH of his parents in their life.

Marriage for membership to society - 99% of the world subscribes to marriage and in most cases, others will look favorably on you if you are married/children. You look like a more responsible person not to mention you are by definition a productive man. Most importantly, you are not perceived as a threat to the establishment and can conduct yourself under the radar if you so choose.

The state of marriage in a country is a good indicator of how well that country is doing economically.

 

[Tenacity]

LiveFree,

See in BOLD

You guys are really looking at the negatives here:

Marriage for citizenship - Gives you a work visa/family visa or access to a completey different market. Some countries have better benefits than others.

This wouldn't apply to most guys in this country, plus there are other ways to becoming a citizen in another country than getting married.

Marriage for culture - Gives your children access to a more masculine culture so that they have a bigger world to belong to.

Define "masculine"? Are you referring to a patriarchal structure? As the gay/lesbian community grows more and more, the traditional patriarchy is dead. As the single mother culture continues to grow, the traditional patriarchy is dead. What you guys refer to as "traditional" is that of a prior to 1970's type of American household, that's DEAD.

It's time to move on and embrace the new world, this new world we live in does not look like the 1950's husband, wife, two kids, a dog and a white fence type of display. Today's world looks like a single mother raising two kids from two different guys, or two parents raising a kid (or two) but the parents are no longer together and "mommy" has a new boyfriend while "daddy" has a new girlfriend, which means the kid (or kids) that mommy and daddy had now have TWO homes and TWO families to go to.

Marriage for ownership of the female - You buy a dog, why can't you buy a female? Dog bites you, replace him, same with wife.

This is another fallacy, you are still LEASING the woman. A lease is something that you don't own, that you use for a period of time, and then you give back...OR....it's something that you use for the time being until it's CALLED. Any woman you have relations with, no matter if she is a wife or a girlfriend or a fvck buddy, you do not own her. They are all LEASES and they can be called at any minute.

Marriage for stability - Whilst it may not be a physical thing that you can have, it does give some security knowing that no matter where you are, your wife will be there to look out for your well being in some capacity.

You assume she will. Your wife could very well be the reason your "health" takes a downturn due to the bullshyt she puts you through during the marriage. Plus there are a lot of marriages out there where the spouse is not supportive, caring, loving, etc. You can get support, friends and people who care/love you without getting married.

Marriage for children - What child doesn't want his mother and father to be married? Lets be honest now, every kid. A STRAIGHT marriage means that both parties have a vested interest in maintaining a family structure and making a concentrated effort to be more successful with their lives. What child wouldn't benefit from having BOTH of his parents in their life.

The children won't know the difference because again, society is changing. Plus, who says BOTH parents won't be in the child's life?

Marriage for membership to society - 99% of the world subscribes to marriage and in most cases, others will look favorably on you if you are married/children. You look like a more responsible person not to mention you are by definition a productive man. Most importantly, you are not perceived as a threat to the establishment and can conduct yourself under the radar if you so choose.

The world....has.....changed. Nobody cares if you are "married" anymore.

 

[Yewki]

Looking at your positives,

Marriage for membership to society - 99% of the world subscribes to marriage and in most cases, others will look favorably on you if you are married/children.

Honestly, if you get married and have kids for social status you're probably already doing a lot of other sh*t wrong too. But whatever, you do you. Don't forget to jump on that social media to impress other people with your important and meaningful life also.

Marriage for citizenship - Gives you a work visa/family visa or access to a completey different market. Some countries have better benefits than others.

This is a different case than what anyone here was talking about, but I'll give you that. Marriage is useful to gain citizenship to a country.

Marriage for culture - Gives your children access to a more masculine culture so that they have a bigger world to belong to.

Not sure what you're trying to say. Access to a more masculine culture?

Marriage for ownership of the female - You buy a dog, why can't you buy a female? Dog bites you, replace him, same with wife.

Except here if the dog bites you, it also takes half your sh*t.

 

[Yewki]

The world....has.....changed. Nobody cares if you are "married" anymore.

Actually Tenacity I agree with LiveFree on this one. The world does care, being married with kids adds social value. Society generally interprets it to mean you're responsible and dependable.

But I think the more important question is, does it really matter and who the f*ck cares? Don't be a slave to social conditioning.

 

[Tenacity]

Actually Tenacity I agree with LiveFree on this one. The world does care, being married with kids adds social value. Society generally interprets it to mean you're responsible and dependable.

But I think the more important question is, does it really matter and who the f*ck cares? Don't be a slave to social conditioning.

Where in society? The only place I see something that even remotely resembles this, is when you run for a very high ranking public office, which again doesn't apply to 99.999% of guys on this forum or in this country.

 

[ZTIME]

There truly are no wrong or right answers to why someone believes they should be married or not. I think that people will make their own decisions and have for centuries. Some make it and some don't, and it seems to be more the latter as time progresses and society's change.

My problem is that as I read a lot of these posts, we seem to get a lot of negative response based on how we perceive and objectify women. It seems lately as men we are quick to disregard our own faults and blame all relationship problems on the opposite sex. I've been down this road and it truly leads to a dead end.

It's like making decisions based on what the angel or devil on either shoulder say, without considering the man in the middle. "There's only one side who wins!"

There is no doubt that society has changed and maneueuvering through today's world can be rough. Yet truly, relationships with humans have not. The rules of the game may have changed but the prize remains the same. We're social beings who enjoy human interaction. The problem truly arises when we allow that human interaction to control us and our own belifes.

We see so many guys on SS who used to take care of themselves physically, mentally, and financially. Only to let it all go once a girl came along and took it all away. Then what's the advice we give?.... Workout, get right mentally by giving it time, and take care of your finances. Then your ready to go out and spin plates.

Yes, there truly are some pretty bad chicks out there. (Ran into plenty myself), but is it them who have become better hunters or us who have become better prey.

Why do women act so entitled?........because they have been trained by weaker men that pvssy has value, not morals and looks. They've been trained that men will trade their hopes, dreams, and lives to feel that false sense of security that any crusty chick can provide. They've been trained that it's so much easier to walk from any relationship, because they'll be someone else willing to pick up the pieces and carry the baggage.

So who's fault is it? I really don't know.

What I've learned is that I personally cannot condone marriage in my life, but I cannot codem those who are married. My path is to solely be the best Ztime there is. I'm the best I can be for me and for all the social interactions I have (friends, relatives, and female companions). I can't judge their actions, so I consider if they're the best interactions for my life.

I think as a man, It's the best way to live.

Gentlemen, be blessed! Life can be awesome if you allow it to be.

 

[Bible_Belt]

I got married when I was 21, so my gf of about six months could get a green card. I also immediately became an adult for financial aid purposes, and went from getting nothing to maxing out everything. Her tuition rate was cut by 2/3. Her rich family was more than happy to pay our bills for years, as well as fly us to their Caribbean resort hotel for Christmas.

We were together about seven years, but I didn't want to live in Florida any more and moved back to Illinois. She hated it up here and would never move. She ended up divorcing me, a decision she now regrets. I know that, because we still talk and she told me. I didn't want to get divorced at the time. It felt like losing. But looking back with the perspective I have now. I would do it all over again. I don't think you'll meet very many divorced people who can say that.

 

[yuppee]

how does getting married cut her tuition rate?