The Five Stages of Red Pill.....and viewing threads in that context

[Reykhel]

I'm printing this from another website. I'm sure many of you are familiar with it. You can use it to take your own temperature, so to speak, and also it's another insight in which to view the various threads.......

I'm probably not the first person to observe that taking the red pill is a gradual process, and that the loss of illusions, like any other loss, initiates a grieving process.

But it's worth pointing out that psychology's general "five stages" model of the grieving process applies to TRP.

1. Denial: "Women aren't like that! They're people just like everyone else! Treat them all as individuals, and you're sure to find the right one!"
   
   
2. Anger: "WTF! Bitches are all like this! They have no honour, no loyalty, and they don't really love anyone but themselves! ****ing ****s!"
   
   
3. Bargaining: "If I work real hard and learn all the pickup moves, then at least I'll get laid."
   
   
4. Depression: "Getting laid by shallow, obnoxious women has become dull and unrewarding. And there's no sense looking for a unicorn. Maybe I'll just be MGTOW for a while."
   
   
5. Acceptance: "Women aren't bad. My expectations of them, and theirs of me, were based on faulty premises. They are creatures of instinct, just like I am... but of different instincts. If I learn what those instincts are, and teach them about mine, we can develop realistic expectations of each other and get along just fine."
   
   If we really want to understand what gets written here, in its proper context, we need to understand that most "Red Pill Theory" posts will belong to one of these five stages. Each stage has value, because to reach a later one, you must go through the earlier ones. And, as in grieving, the progress through is seldom linear, smooth, uniform, and one-directional.
   
   But to understand each post in context, it helps to mentally decide which stage it belongs to, and read it with that in mind.
   
   This is why concern trolling and tone policing have no place here. Not because extremism is our banner (we have no banner, we are not a crusade), but because venting, discussing and understanding anger is a legitimate part of phase 2. Saying that women aren't worth hanging about with, even for sex, is part of phase 4.
   
   If I were to say "don't be so angry" to someone who comes here to say "all women are bitches and *****s", then I would be interrupting his process of coming to terms with the loss of his illusions. It would be far better for me to tell him that his feelings are important (because feels actually sometimes areimportant), and that his anger is not bottomless, and that it will eventually run dry.
   
   So when I read a text post here, some red pill theory, some rant, I just say to myself "stage 2". Or "stage 3". Or "stage 5". And then I continue reading. Because they are all useful. Even if I am (mostly) over my own anger, understanding other men's anger helps me, because it teaches me more about where the disconnect between reality and our expectations occurs.
   
   But to anyone who doesn't understand that TRP posts come from different stages of the process... well, a lot of what's written here just isn't going to make sense.
   
   https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill...five_stages_of_red_pill_and_how_to_read_rtrp/

 

[Reykhel]

Rollo has something similar.......The Five Stages of Unplugging.....(updated to six) I'm sure he won't mind me reprinting here....

1. Denial – Still Plugged -In: “These game guys are a bunch of clowns, there’s no way this works on women. Women aren’t stupid. What a bunch of misogynists.”

2. Anger – Post-Red Pill: “This is ridiculous! Why should I have to jump through all these hoops for women? I just want to be myself. Why couldn’t I have been a Natural Alpha®? I blame my parents/siblings/teachers/God/liberals/feminists/media/society, maybe George Sodini, Andres Breivik, James Holmes wasn’t so crazy after all.”

3. Bargaining – Unplugged: “Well maybe it does have some good points…but, forget the hot girls, they’re way outta my league. I’ll give it a try if it can help me get around the bases with a plain Jane. Do I have to wear the fuzzy hat and black nail polish?”

4. Depression – Bitter Taste of the Red Pill:“Wow, women really respond to this puffed-up act? And guys spend big bucks on it and wind up with more ass than a toilet seat? And I just joined up for this? The world is sad and so am I…”

5. Acceptance – Game Awareness: “Maybe this IS the way things really work. I guess I should give up the gender relations mythology I’ve been holding onto…hey, what do you think of these negs I came up with?”

6. Jaded* – MGTOW Permutations: “**** learning all these rules. Sex isn’t worth it and women aren’t that fun anyway. The last thing I want to do is learn routines or the 5 stages of pickup. There’s too many websites, too much to read, I can’t remember it all much less sort it all out. Who has all that time to go out and chat up women anyway? It’s not like I see any women under 40 at work at my engineering job to practice on. Video games and porn are more fun and more available. I just haffta look good and let the women come to me”

* This is a late addition to the list, hardly original and arguably relevant, but I added it for precautionary measures.

http://therationalmale.com/2012/07/25/the-5-stages-of-unplugging/

 

[Lozboss]

Great post.

Probably in stage 4 currently. In monk mode and just focussed on me.

It's a tough transition. I'm interested to see if one ever gets to stage 5.

 

[RangerMIke]

Great post.

Probably in stage 4 currently. In monk mode and just focussed on me.

It's a tough transition. I'm interested to see if one ever gets to stage 5.

This is the most important phase because really you could go in one of three directions: (1) MGTOW, (2) Self Improvement, (3) PUA lifestyle.

Truth is any of those paths are fine, but (3) just can not be sustained.... You just can not keep up with that over time... it's great when you are in your 20s and you are trying to date and hook up with carousal riding 20-something chicks... but sooner or later you have to accept that all you can do is be the VERY best you can be and get women who want you for who you are. OR, just freaking give up on women... I have PLENTY of friends that are full on MGTOW, and they are among the happiest men I know.

 

[CuddleJunkie]

Lozboss, trying to accept everything as it is will help you to accept women as they are.
When you realize the vacuity of everything (only on a logical level at least, as it might take years to really understand it), you pretty much don't give one **** over things, so women are no the exception.

 

[ohrein]

I hadn't seen this list. Really interesting. It definitely resonates with my progression over the last decade. I think I'm dipping my toes into stage 5 with an LTR I couldn't resist, despite being hardcore MGTOW for over a year. I would be happy going back to being MGTOW if things go bad so I guess it's win/win. Just gotta be ready for the emotional response if things go bad which I think I am.

I agree that we should encourage all discussion and refer to this to people in early stages so they can understand what direction to head. I imagine with the way men are being treated in modern western societies we're going to have a constant influx of newbies here over the next long years.

PS. Forgot my old account, been lurking since I got into the LTR since I needed some refreshers after MGTOW for a year. I wasn't anyone of note back when I was active here anyway.

 

[Dingo]

Damn... I'm might be too old to learn new tricks....

Wish I would have known most of these things 35 years ago.

For now I'll do the best I can....

 

[wifehunter]

Instinct is overated.

 

[ubercat]

I like the point that it's linear. No average Joe has abundance every day but u do have the chance to create abundance every day.

 

[latino158]

lol the ironic thing is at the end, when you think you are redpilled, you are still massively bluepilled

most people fail to realize that women only care about 2 things when it comes to sexors

looks, status and money

even for relationship, you may have chemistry and she may ok with your looks, but without money, she will not be with you for the long run

the real redpill is that you have very little to no control of what you are a man, and whatever success you may have with women, was already decided before you were even born

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Stage 5 of the OP is a myth. Don't say "Women aren't really bad" as if you somehow misunderstood them. A lot of women really ARE power hungry, egomaniacs, psychotic game players, hypergamy sluts. Don't romanticize women. It is what it is. The OP's Stage 5 reminds me of one of those romantic comedies where everything ends in peace and harmony. That's not real life. A lot of people's values ARE really screwed up. There is such thing as unenlightened beings. There IS such thing as the feminist movement. There is such thing as outraged womanhood. There is such thing as false rape accusations and the judicial system giving women unfair power and control over custody battles while the father pays 98% of alimony. STOP IT with the romanticizing of women and dating. MTGTOW is tottally legit and justified. Look at reality for what it is and decide if you still want to play the game or live your own life. But for God's sake, don't romanticize women with your misguided idealism. It will just lead you to be disillusioned when reality knocks you over the head over and over again.

So you believe due to all the narcissistic sources that a womans ego can become much more bloated than a males?

 

[amazingswayze]

OP, these are the 5 stages of grief, exactly the same.

But in a way, it makes sense.

When you discover the red pill, you lose your innocence. You lose your fairy tale dreams. And in a way, you lose hope.

So I guess that leaves us with the question...

Is it better to have loved and lost...

Or never loved at all?

 

[zekko]

6. Jaded* – MGTOW Permutations: “**** learning all these rules. Sex isn’t worth it and women aren’t that fun anyway. The last thing I want to do is learn routines or the 5 stages of pickup. There’s too many websites, too much to read, I can’t remember it all much less sort it all out. Who has all that time to go out and chat up women anyway? It’s not like I see any women under 40 at work at my engineering job to practice on. Video games and porn are more fun and more available. I just haffta look good and let the women come to me”

* This is a late addition to the list, hardly original and arguably relevant, but I added it for precautionary measures.

The first five are (of course) based on the five stages of grief. But #6 got my attention, it looks much more like the final stage than #5 (Acceptance) did. It explains why so many people eventually leave the forum and the community. Pook said that at a certain point, all of this stuff would seem ridiculous to you.

 

[dasein]

"Red pill" is just unlearning the cultural conditioning/propaganda that women are on some higher moral plain than men. For every generalized flaw that men exhibit, women exhibit their own flaw.

Women are no better, generally, nor worse, than men.

Fun thing to say when women bring up gender. It infuriates them because it brings the logical flaw of feminism to the forefront. It's not something you say to a woman you want to **** though. Far better to be more emotional, less rational when doing PUA.

 

[ohrein]

I think you guys are misunderstanding the stage 5. It's not about forgetting all the stuff we've learned, it's about accepting it and still trying to have meaningful relationships with women while protecting yourself. I have many women who enhance my life. It's not all bad. If that's something you want to indulge in of course. I dipped my toes in but am back to MGTOW after today (about to post about it).