Rough times for Russian pilots

Bible_Belt

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http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/russian-rescue-helicopter-shot-down-6891003

First Turkey shoots down a jet, then the Syrian rebels shoot down the helicopter searching for the pilots, which it looks like they murdered anyway. The rebels are murderous animals, but to be fair, President Assad is probably even more murderous, if less animal. This is the fight Putin picked by siding with Assad. The first thing he did was take out the US-backed rebel groups when Russia announced it was bombing Syria to fight ISIS. The missile that shot down the Russian helicopter was almost certainly paid for with US tax dollars.
 

taiyuu_otoko

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The whole middle east is going to erupt in a proxy war blood bath. Just like when Athens and Sparta kicked the crap out of other.

I predict this will lead to the collapse of western civilization. Give it 10-20 years and we're pretty much done. Once the petrodollar dies, it's game over.
 

backseatjuan

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The news about helicopter is yellow. SU-24 bomber was shot down, two pilots capatulted, one was rescued, there is search for 2nd pilot. Turkey claims SU-24 entered its airspace for 17 seconds. There is an agreement between United States and Russia, one can not shoot another without prior warning. Turkey is a member of NATO and suppose to abide to this agreement. Russian airspace command says SU-24 did not violate Turkish airspace.

In response to this incident thus far: 1) all bombers will be escorted by fighters. 2) our ships will cover airspace over turkey and shoot down anything that poses danger to our planes. 3) we stopped all military cooperation with turkey.

In response to this incident that is going to be done: 1) stop all tourist relationships with turkey that is 3 billion dollars per year loss for turkey.

In response to this incident that might be done: 1) stop gas export to turkey, our natural gas is 70% of turkeys yearly requirement. 2) ask our allies to stop gas export to turkey, which is another 30%.

WHY DID TURKEY DID THIS? Obviously everybody knows what Russia is doing in the region, there was no security threat to turkey, no matter entered SU-24 its airspace or not. (it did not). Turkey is a member of NATO and is thinking it is defended. The real reason for this incident is that turkey was buying 2 million barrels of oil from Islamic State terrorists before Russia focused its aviation on destroying this infrastructure. Turkey is loosing money. But in all honesty it will loose more in the coming future.


But honestly, everyone knows who created and who supports and WHO ARMS the islamic state terrorists. Why this escalation is no surprise. United States first is using brainwashed monkeys to fight us, then it will use its 'allies'. Putin is cool headed, I doubt he will start a war with Turkey, but he will fvck it up economically, and possibly make it pay for the Armenian genocide.
 
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Bible_Belt

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As much as I hate to agree with you on anything, Turkey has been criticized as the largest state sponsor of ISIS. They are getting away with it because they are in NATO. Your oil theory would explain why Turkey is supporting ISIS - so they can buy cheap, stolen oil from them.
 

Bible_Belt

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Now Russia is saying they rescued the second pilot. Good for him.

It occurred to me that this would have been a huge PR opportunity for the US if they had been the ones to go in and rescue that Russian pilot before the Russians got to him. Obama could have amog'd Putin, by making it look like Putin needed the Americans to save his ass when things went wrong. But that's some sh!t Reagan would have done; nothing like that is ever coming out of this administration.
 

Huffman

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Lots of propaganda flying around but Turkey "laundering" IS oil, that's not a theory. You can find it in the news, (and not only Russian which honestly is hard to trust). I'll see if I can whip up some sources for you.

Apart from that, Turkey's biggest interest here is that IS destroys the Kurds, who are by now the strongest cohesive force in Syria (because of western support) and are well underway to gain their own independent state if things settle down one day. Turkey, again, wants to prevent this at all costs, to keep their own Kurdish minority down (to be fair, Kurds also did terror bombings before).

So it's a crazy threeway.
- Turkey wants to destroy Kurds and also Assad, supporting Syrian rebels and indirectly helping IS - all the new IS recruits are smuggled through the Turkish border one way, and oil is going the other!
- West wants to destroy IS and also Assad, is equpping Kurds and Syrian rebels
- Russia wants to destroy IS and Syrian rebels, is helping Assad

Assad yes/no, that's a tough question, but it's incredible that the states who covertly support IS (Turkey w/ lenient borders, SA/Qatar by "not noticing" generous donations of private persons to IS) aren't reined in. They are supposed to be our allies. If those governments wanted to stop the flow of money, weapons and personel, all that crap would be over in no time.
 

SeymourCake

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http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/russian-rescue-helicopter-shot-down-6891003

First Turkey shoots down a jet, then the Syrian rebels shoot down the helicopter searching for the pilots, which it looks like they murdered anyway. The rebels are murderous animals, but to be fair, President Assad is probably even more murderous, if less animal. This is the fight Putin picked by siding with Assad. The first thing he did was take out the US-backed rebel groups when Russia announced it was bombing Syria to fight ISIS. The missile that shot down the Russian helicopter was almost certainly paid for with US tax dollars.
Proof? One of the pilots that survived was escorted back to Moscow with the help of Bashar Al-Assad.

Lots of propaganda flying around but Turkey "laundering" IS oil, that's not a theory. You can find it in the news, (and not only Russian which honestly is hard to trust). I'll see if I can whip up some sources for you.

Apart from that, Turkey's biggest interest here is that IS destroys the Kurds, who are by now the strongest cohesive force in Syria (because of western support) and are well underway to gain their own independent state if things settle down one day. Turkey, again, wants to prevent this at all costs, to keep their own Kurdish minority down (to be fair, Kurds also did terror bombings before).

So it's a crazy threeway.
- Turkey wants to destroy Kurds and also Assad, supporting Syrian rebels and indirectly helping IS - all the new IS recruits are smuggled through the Turkish border one way, and oil is going the other!
- West wants to destroy IS and also Assad, is equpping Kurds and Syrian rebels
- Russia wants to destroy IS and Syrian rebels, is helping Assad

Assad yes/no, that's a tough question, but it's incredible that the states who covertly support IS (Turkey w/ lenient borders, SA/Qatar by "not noticing" generous donations of private persons to IS) aren't reined in. They are supposed to be our allies. If those governments wanted to stop the flow of money, weapons and personel, all that crap would be over in no time.
False. The West along with NATO are supplying and funding ISIS.

The terrorist who killed one of the Russian pilot as he was descending down in his parachute is confirmed to be Turkish.

 

Bible_Belt

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Assad is one of the most murderous dictators on the planet right now. His helicopters drop barrel bombs of c4 on civilian neighborhoods all the time. He's a sub-human animal. But at this time, much like Saddam was for Iraq, he's the animal who is most capable of keeping peace among all the other animals, even if he is a monster. That's the problem with the Syrian war. There are no good guys. It's bad vs bad vs worse.
 

Huffman

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False. The West along with NATO are supplying and funding ISIS.
Indirectly, but it's not really that clear cut. "The west" involves like 20 separate countries. Certainly not all of them wanted this to happen. I believe most of us (I'm talking about Europe here, not US) actually want IS gone. Anyway it's the official stance at least.

Here's a good source on IS oil:
http://ig.ft.com/sites/2015/isis-oil/
It doesn't mention Turkey that much, but rather the Oil is being passed on to the "moderate Rebels" who are our friends, not evil terrorists, and sell it onwards. Anybody who buys oil from them must know it directly comes from IS.
 

Who Dares Win

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Most of europeans except for polish and baltics mostly support Putin, the more time passes the more he gets support and symphaty.

Isis is the living proof of the failing policies of the western world, Saddam and Gaddafi were the only men capable of keeping such hot places in order, to believe that you can rule a jail the same way you rule a kindergarden is stupid beyong measure, no fvcking wonder they had to be harsh.

If it wasnst for such stupid policies we wouldnt have millions of muslim immigrants flooding Europe and being yet an other distraction from the orwellian laws that the EU is passing on us.

The amount of terrorists hiding among the illegals is the lesser problem in the bigger picture.
 

SeymourCake

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Indirectly, but it's not really that clear cut. "The west" involves like 20 separate countries. Certainly not all of them wanted this to happen. I believe most of us (I'm talking about Europe here, not US) actually want IS gone. Anyway it's the official stance at least.

Here's a good source on IS oil:
http://ig.ft.com/sites/2015/isis-oil/
It doesn't mention Turkey that much, but rather the Oil is being passed on to the "moderate Rebels" who are our friends, not evil terrorists, and sell it onwards. Anybody who buys oil from them must know it directly comes from IS.


The US is supporting ISIS to create a civil war in Syria in hopes to take down Bashar al-Assad. If you don't see this, then you're clearly blind. I wouldn't be surprised if ISIS is splitting the profit they gain from the oil refineries with the CIA.

I hope you realize the "moderate rebels" is a code word for Al-Qaeda and al-Nusra. Yep, who would've thought that Al-Qaeda is now considered to be moderate.
 
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Huffman

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Calm down man, I was saying the exact same thing.
 

SeymourCake

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Indirectly, but it's not really that clear cut. "The west" involves like 20 separate countries. Certainly not all of them wanted this to happen. I believe most of us (I'm talking about Europe here, not US) actually want IS gone. Anyway it's the official stance at least.

Here's a good source on IS oil:
http://ig.ft.com/sites/2015/isis-oil/
It doesn't mention Turkey that much, but rather the Oil is being passed on to the "moderate Rebels" who are our friends, not evil terrorists, and sell it onwards. Anybody who buys oil from them must know it directly comes from IS.
 

Sprayarc

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One of the biggest underlying problems in the middle east is Islam. Regardless of where isis gets support from it's Islam and the Quran that they are using as a rule book.
 

SeymourCake

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One of the biggest underlying problems in the middle east is Islam. Regardless of where isis gets support from it's Islam and the Quran that they are using as a rule book.
Do you need to be reminded how scientific and mathematics under Islamic rule brought Europe out of the dark ages?
 

SeymourCake

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Prove it. History is subjective.
Historians themselves debate from an objective standpoint. Otherwise, they would not be having a discussion or debate at all if history as you claim to be subjective.

Caliph Abu Jafar al-Mansur, the founder, built a great library in Baghdad, Lyons relates, modelled after those of the great Persian kings. Arab chroniclers later praised his mastery of logic and law and his interest in philosophy and astronomy, and gave him credit for directing translation into Arabic of numerous important works by Greek, Persian and Hindu philosophers and scientists. Data were gathered from across the widespread Islamic empire for development by Baghdadâs men of learning. His library was named The House of Wisdom.

Arabs adopted the efficient Hindu/Indian decimal system, with the nine numerals and zero we use today. On the basis of Euclidâs geometry and Ptolemyâs astronomy, the Arabs devised algebra and trigonometry and made astronomical observations of their own. At a time when the Christians of Europe believed the world was flat, found it difficult to fix the date of Easter and could not even tell the time of day, the Arabs, aided by a gadget called the astrolabe, made astronomical and terrestrial measurements to discover that our world is spherical and to calculate its size almost exactly. The astrolabe was also a valuable navigational instrument, determining latitude.

The Arabs made great progress in cartography, chemistry and medicine at a time when the Christian Church was telling adherents that diseases were divine punishments for human sins. Flagellation was one of the atonements for the Black Death.

In every discipline, Arab scholars were assisted by the manufacture of paper, while Europes relatively few literates were writing on cumbersome and expensive parchment. Libraries in Islam then contained hundreds of thousands of volumes, when books in Europe were very scarce.

Lyons traces the influences of Plato, Aristotle, Augustine and Thomas Aquinas on the Arabs. Today many tend to see religion as the enemy of scientific progress, Lyons writes. Yet early Islam openly encouraged and nurtured intellectual inquiry of all kinds. Muhammad (s) himself said: Seek knowledge, even in China. In contrast with the Crusaders who rampaged through the Holy Land at the end of the 11th century, there were European scholars, such as Adelard of Bath and Michael Scot, who travelled to Islam and brought back Arabic texts for translation into Latin and beyond. Cultural go-betweens connecting East and West were helped by Muslims in Sicily and Spain to transmit knowledge.
 

evan12

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Assad is one of the most murderous dictators on the planet right now. His helicopters drop barrel bombs of c4 on civilian neighborhoods all the time. He's a sub-human animal. But at this time, much like Saddam was for Iraq, he's the animal who is most capable of keeping peace among all the other animals, even if he is a monster. That's the problem with the Syrian war. There are no good guys. It's bad vs bad vs worse.
I know a lot of American may not take it , but US is not really serious about fighting ISIS , they are just involving enough to tell people they are fighting but infact they want ISIS to create its new state that will divide Syria and Iraq to 3 countries so Israiel will be safer.
 
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