Chivalry

Vulpine

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I've been on a rampage since reading about some woman's "pay the bill" test. This chick will not see a guy, no matter what, if he doesn't pay the bill on the first date. She used the term "chivalry" in the body of explanation.

The wheels started to turn, and I pondered all that I've ever know about chivalry. My brain recounted the history and evolution of chivalry. My army experience tought me that the salute and handshake evolved from knights passing on roads. They would raise their right hands to show that they had no hostile intentions. Being that the right hand was sword hand, they demonstrated that they weren't reaching for their sword. Chivalry initially started as warrior codes of conduct!

Then, I recalled that "chivalry" morphed into "being a gentleman" and was popularized in an era when woman wore whale-bone corsets, hoop dresses, and travelled in horse drawn carriages. It was actually hard for women to move, and it was considered to be gracious to aid these ladies in difficult movements - otherwise they would pass out from the constriction. Opening doors, stooping, bending, reaching and exertion in general were difficult when strapped into a corset. Chamber pots were emptied from windows into the streets, and men were gentlemen for walking in harms way. Furthermore, there were highwaymen and robbers that women needed protection from. And finally, women didn't have jobs. They had no money to speak of with which to buy their own things. When you consider these things, it's easy too understand and act "chivalrous".

Now, consider all that we see and discuss here. Consider the femanization of our society. My brain, at this point, starts to fry. I have never had a woman stay in the car and wait for me to come around and help her out. I have never had a woman pause and wait at a door for me to open it for her. And, I have never had a woman offer her hand/arm when crossing the street or going up stairs. Where before I bought into the idea that women might have a valid grievance, I finally started to see the hustle. The modern woman must first act like a lady before she can be treated like a lady.

I am hard pressed to recall a date where a woman actually showed up in heels and a dress. When she got out of the car before me and opened the door for me... where exactly was my opportunity to be a gentleman? Indeed, modern women are not ladies.

And, in a conversation I had this weekend with a girl I know, the topic came up. She has always been a pedestal rider, and I never found a good angle to break her down with. But this was a hot topic for her, so I let her rant and rave for quite some time. All the while I was nodding, agreeing with her points, etc. When she finally let out enough rope... it was my turn to respond. I started off by asking her, "Do you think you are a lady?" "Yes." then "Do you honestly feel you knew more about how a gentleman should act than I do?" Needless to say, I tied the noose in her rope and kicked her pedestal out from under her with great ease. As she sat with her mouth open in disbelief, I thought I noticed something in her that I never saw before... an IL?

Gentleman, before you start unleashing the fury of men scorned with this tidbit, do some serious study and observation. Next time you are at a restaurant, note how many women are seated by their dates, how many are assisted with their coats, and how many women would have deserved such treatment. You'll come up with a lot of zeros... unless you should happen to witness an elderly couple - pay close attention! The elderly are miraculous to watch in this regard. They walk down the street arm in arm with the man on the building side. See if you get to watch them get into a vehicle... such grace!

As far as DJ skills go, chivalry is a gem. And, in our push/pull, give/take away, and value determination, knowing lady/gentleman interaction rules is a huge ace in the hole.

I'm interested to hear other perspectives on this traditional behavior and how you guys have worked it into your "routines".
 

legolas

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Very well said indeed!!

The whole idea of shocking a woman and leaving her openmouthed as you say, can instantly doble your perceived sexual value in her eyes. It is a tool, that every man should have, but in most cases the women it draws into you are worthless. You can sometimes make a woman fall all over you with a simple shock/ impact like that.

Good stuff.
 

Desdinova

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Good post!

I've heard women go on about how sad it is that chivalry doesn't exist in todays society. The fact of the matter is, there's no use for it with today's modern woman.

Another problem with chivalry is that many AFCs try to pull it off. They open doors for women, take their coats to hang them up, run around to the other side of the car to open the door, etc. These kinds of things can ONLY be pulled of if the guy has confidence. Without confidence, it comes off as supplication and he ends up placing her on a pedestal.
 

Vulpine

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Femmanism killed chivalry.

That's a good point Des, I lacked the words to describe that aspect. Women feel that, given they were born with a rack and a gap, they are ENTITLED to the lady treatment. But, Frank Sinatra will have you know: That's why the lady... is a tramp. :nono:

The expectation of men picking up the tab and holding the door at a restaurant went up in smoke along with all the bras that got burned.
 

BigDawg

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Yeah, good post. This is something I've been thinking about a lot lately. The old adage, "nice guys finish last," may be true, but gentlemen are not nice guys, are they? No, they are gentlemen, since nice guys are AFCs.

Anyway, it raises a question in my mind. It used to be customary for a gentlemen to offer his arm to the woman with whom he's walking (isn't this in the DJ Bible?), but you don't see it much anymore. So question is, if I were to offer my arm to the woman I'm walking with, would she think it's weird and scoff at the idea? Also, if I'm walking with her and I spontaneously grab her hand (so we can walk hand-in-hand), would she think it's weird and suddenly want to be anywhere but with me?

If this were to happen, it would probably leave me thinking, "so much for chivalry/being a gentleman." Oh, that and, I'd realize that this woman wouldn't be worth any more of my time.

One last thought: an anecdote. A long time ago, before my Dad had retired, he was at work, and as he was walking down the hallway in his building, he went to hold a door for a female coworker. Well, this woman was a feminazi, so she scoffed at him for holding the door. So, he just walked through and didn't bother to hold the door for her. Then she gotty pissed off because he didn't hold the door for her. Damned if you do, damned if you don't, I guess. There's no winning with some people.
 

( . )( . )

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Vulpine said:
I'm interested to hear other perspectives on this traditional behavior and how you guys have worked it into your "routines".
I havent, has no place in seduction.

But anyway I recently had a single mum I've been boning pull the "gentleman" card on me aswell and I fvcked her with logic by just saying something similar to what you said.

"Do you know any "ladies"? cause I dont. How bout when you find a traditional one who deserves a "gentleman" I'll see what I can do, deal?"

After she told me I wasnt a "gentleman". Pffft This is a b!tch whos loud, never shuts up, smokes, drinks and swears like a trooper..Unelievable.

Btw silly question but wouldnt just by the fact chicks actually have an opinion on "Gentleman" and decide to SPEAK without being spoken too cancel there bullsh!t "lady/gentleman" fantasy out?.
I very much doubt the b!tch would have hiked up her hoop dress, put her foot on the stool and said "Well I think bla bla bla" back when they existed.
 

Vulpine

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( . )( . ) said:
I havent, has no place in seduction.

"Do you know any "ladies"? cause I dont. How bout when you find a traditional one who deserves a "gentleman" I'll see what I can do, deal?"
Classic... keep 'em comin'!:rockon:
 

Desdinova

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A long time ago, before my Dad had retired, he was at work, and as he was walking down the hallway in his building, he went to hold a door for a female coworker. Well, this woman was a feminazi, so she scoffed at him for holding the door.
It's really amazing how women are the ones who killed chivalry, yet they b1tch and complain that men are no longer "gentlemen".

I'm interested to hear other perspectives on this traditional behavior and how you guys have worked it into your "routines".
I use it when only when it's convenient. If we're approaching my vehicle on the passenger side, I'll unlock and open the door for her (she'll then unlock my door for me). If we're approaching the driver's side, I don't bother.

If we're approaching a building and I'm the first to reach for the handle, I'll hold the door open for her. If she reaches the door first, She'll open the door for me.

Using full-blown chivalry today is pointless. However, it can be dumbed down to being polite.
 

STR8UP

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Desdinova said:
Using full-blown chivalry today is pointless. However, it can be dumbed down to being polite.
Good point.

I catch myself trying to make sure I don't go overboard, but like today, this girl was cleaning one of my rental condos for me. I asked her to come over to my personal residence a couple of blocks away to give me an estimate to clean.

She rides a heavy mountain bike. When she got to my place I helped her bring it up the steps and into my place so it wouldn't get stolen. Then I helped her take it back out when she left.

Stuff like this isn't supplication...it's courtesy. This girl was all of 5'1" and 90 lbs. Sure, she COULD do it herself, but it was easy for me and no sweat off my back so what do I care?
 

Vulpine

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update:

The pedestal rider chick called. She got my number from a mutual friend. She's driving me to the mutual friend's birthday party this weekend. Talk about blatent FI's. I'm gonna totally make her get doors for me.
 

Jamo

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Show that you are a "polite person" by your actions rather than by your words. I think that is the medicine for nice guys.

Let me elaborate: You do all the sex talk/c&f, and whatnot else as explained in the DJ bible in your conversation (don't forget the non-sexual kino), but at the same time you may pay for her drinks on occasion, open the door for her, offer your arm when you walk, etc.
 
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legolas

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Vulpine said:
update:

The pedestal rider chick called. She got my number from a mutual friend. She's driving me to the mutual friend's birthday party this weekend. Talk about blatent FI's. I'm gonna totally make her get doors for me.
This is interesting. One little shock\impact and she's hooked :rockon: In the past I've gotten to this similar point (though not as intense) and I usually f*ck it up by releasing the tension very fast without realizing it. If you keep it up, she's gonna want to wax your pole tonight :D

btw. What exactly does FI stand for? F____ of Interest?
 

Vulpine

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FI = Fvck Invite (so much as I've seen it before used)

I should say, this chick always looked down her nose at me. I'd see her at parties, think she was hot, approach to socialize, not pick up ANY IOI's and maybe get some ill vibes. Whatever, I never really gave her any effort or attention. When I busted her chops about the chivalry thing, I didn't do it like "friendly just poking fun" style. No, I gave her both barrels in a "fvck you b1tch, you aren't even in the same league as me, I don't give a damn what you think, cry if you want" way. I was mean.

So, by making her open doors for me, it's only going to support the "out of her league" idea.

The more I think of it... this chivalry argument is diabolical. It's a dangling carrot appealing to a woman's knight in shining armor fantasy.
 

El MonoLoco

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I'm going to hear it for this...

Ok I agree and disagree......

Chivalry in its real sense....yes...is dead....The womans movement did kill it....sucks for them.

but.....

It doesn't mean you can't still be chivalrous in your actions....
(oh its gonna hurt now)
I'm sure any man over 50 will agree. And I'm only 26, I've had plenty of conversations about this with retired men......man are they full of knowledge.

Many of the chivalrous actions mentioned in this post could be taken as simply being polite these days. Opening doors, taking an arm, etc... these things should be done to show that you are the man and you are taking care of your woman....even if she isn't yours *wink*
The right women will notice these little things and respond positively to them.....if she doesn't than she probably isn't a real Lady to begin with as mentioned earlier and you are probably wasting your time....but that's just me. I like showing that I'm in charge and I'm the leader.....I prefer to not be dragged around by my balls like I've seen some guys.....no thanks


Vulpine
I find it really hard to believe that you've never encountered a real woman.....not just a human with a pair of tits and couple of holes.....but a real woman....not a tom boy or feminista.....but a girly girl.......a chick......a "Lady". As I said b4 I'm only 26 and I open doors, take off/ offer jackets, push in chairs, all that jazz..... and I've never had a complaint and I was doing that in high school....I do it for any woman....doesn't matter who she is....I'm just a polite guy.....I was also raised without a father so I can understand why I'm that way too. <<<<yes it led to lots of AFCism but I'm way beyond that now, thanks to this place....yall kick booty

Even when I go out girls wear dresses and I open the car door for them etc, etc bla bla....I'm wearing myself thin with this...

I'll wrap it up with this:
I treat women as they are: women..........Now if a women acts like she doesn't want to be treated like a women by all means don't treat her like one.Only give them what they deserve<<<< I think that's where I was going with this....I'm way to tired right now....

So go ahead and flame me on this I don't care....I'm tired
 

Vulpine

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MonoLoco, I probably have met some "ladies". However, I don't lead with the chivalry, so they don't follow my lead. Instead, I wait for their "lead". My experience has been that they don't ever "wait to be treated like a lady" or present the opportunities on their own.

Anyway, this weekend with the pedestal rider chick was a bust. It started off great, her and I driving to a party (opportunity for ??? after party). But a guy was following us because he didn't know the way... had a tire blow out... then had to ride with us. He turned out to be a crazy straight-man-hater gay guy (you know the type).:moon: Needless to say, he wrecked the whole experience and really spoiled the scene. So, we'll see... she's back-burner action anyway.
 

Rollo Tomassi

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Chivalry in 2006 = "treat the queens like horz and the horz like queens."

That is all citizen.
 

Vulpine

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I had an interesting dinner experience last night. It was myself and three women of varying cultures. One of the women brought up chivalry.

V: "Oh oh... here it comes." *sets down fork, sits back in chair*

To my surprise, one of the women actually started arguing FOR me! "I think modern society and technology killed chivalry."

:eek:

So, I let these three discuss the idea amongst themselves until they started to get bitter and rant against men. That's when I piped up.

I wish you guys could see the slack-jawed looks on their faces when I educated them about where chivalry came from, what it entails, and why they can't expect it if they themselves had jobs and don't present themselves as ladies... or wore corsets, dresses, or heels.

To drive the point home, I quizzed them on some scenarios and asked them how a "lady" and a "gentleman" would act. Every woman there failed every scenario. I summarized:

V: "You see, it's not chivalry that is dead, gals."

And, I left it at that.

Not a word was said for at least five minutes whilst these gals sat eating in their own little worlds.

Priceless.

The GF opened the door for me and picked up the tab for dinner, by the way.

:D
 

Crank_It_Up

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It's simply a way of showing interest in your date. Too much interest (more than hers) is a bad thing. I'll open a door for my date, mom, or any other female if it's convenient. However, I won't go racing ahead tripping over myself to get the door. As for paying for the date, if I asked her out, why not pay? Chivalry is not totally dead yet, and women appreciate the gesture... it makes a man feel more like a man, and a woman feel more like a woman... isn't that what it's all about? For myself, I enjoy the many differences between the sexes, and I believe they do too.
 
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