Juggler Workshop Review & Lay Report (VERY LONG)

Hey, DJ's!

I have posted this to ASF both modderated and unmodderated and it's too valuable an experience not to share with you all. The post is very long and I will have to break it up into chunks in this thread due to the post length limit so bear with me.

If you are interested in learning more about Juggler and his workshops or would like to contact him check out www.seductionarts.com

I finally gave up my opposition to paying for seduction mentorship and it was WELL worth it. Enjoy.

-PDX

The following is a report of Juggler's workshop in Vancouver (Stormwolf and myself were the participants) and a report of an airport PU --> !close which took place in Seattle immediately following the workshop.

There is so much to be said about this workshop that Stormwolf and I can't possibly cover all of the material, nor can we provide a full account of EVERYTHING that was said and done, so to deal with the length of this report I am going to cover the material that most helped me and give a few examples of situations we encountered in the field with regards to each point and subsequently give my overall thoughts on the workshop. There are some very interesting and funny things that happened that I have left out since the post is so friggin long as it is, but I will start other threads for them later (but not tonight, I am SOOOOO wiped after I finish this post, LOL).

Stormwolf and I both went into the workshop with strong game by Juggler's estimation. It was a marathon day/night workshop and the venues included, bars, restaurants, clubs, streets, malls, clothing stores, bus stops, bookstores, coffee shops, and even the beach. I am fairly positive I interacted with upwards of 100 women in two days. It was tiring. I got very little sleep all weekend, the least of the three of us. But that was primarily because I could feel my game literally metamorphosing during the entire workshop and I wanted to be awake for every second of it.

Juggler is a really cool guy. He is not only into seduction mentorship as a business but he is genuinely interested in the success of his students and many of his former students are now his close friends. We hit it off as soon as we started talking on the phone. Seeing him IRL was great. It's so cool to see the most normal looking guy (Juggler looks about as Joe-Blow-average-dude as you can get) with such awesome game. Women are into him wherever he goes.

When I showed up at the Seattle airport, having driven from Portland, to pick him up Juggler the baggage claim, I had a sarge going and he jumped right in when he saw me sarging before we even formally met.

"You will NEVER guess what Juggler does for a living," I said at one point in the convo.

"What DO I do for a living, SexPDX?," asked Juggler, "THIS should be interesting."

"Juggler is a garbage man," I began, "AND he has ANOTHER job....where he teaches guys how to PU girls. In fact I have paid him to fly out here to teach me how. He is famous for the effect he has on women, WORLD RENOWNED in fact."

Eventually I left to smoke a cigarette and Juggler continued talking to the chick for a while. He told me later that he thought she was on the edge of whether to believe us or not but he swayed her towards thinking it was a joke. If she ONLY KNEW how true it was! Hahaha! That interaction set a good tone for the weekend as we drove north to Vancouver where we would post up at Stormwolf's place. I had been sarging with Stormwolf on previous occasions.

Juggler's eye for interpersonal interaction is astonishing. He was able to observe many of my sarges and tell me exactly what the woman was thinking in such a way that I couldn't argue with. When he explained it made perfect sense to the point where I often found myself wondering why the hell something he had observed in me was not a conclusion I had come to myself. His insight has added years to my life by saving time thinking "what if this? what if that?"

Juggler Method is a process that focuses on gaining deep rapport quickly by targeting wide ranges of expression. The goal is to move towards the feeling between you and the woman of being comfortable to freely express yourselves about anything and the feeling of mutual desire to be involved in each other's lives. If you can achieve these things, #closes, *closes, !closes, or whatever will happen naturally because they are inevitable. The Juggler Method itself, in my interpretation, is not a series of instructions of what to say and do in order to achieve skill in the game because NO SUCH INSTRUCTIONS EXIST. The method is more of a combination of a set of body language techniques and a conversational framework, what is actually said comes from YOU. Relying on yourself rather than material coming from OUTSIDE yourself is the central philosophy of Juggler Method.

Juggler and I are in total agreement that viewing seduction as a battle to be won or approaching it competitively is not the best frame of mind. Seduction is a cooperative effort between you and the woman. The interactions are a dialogue not a monologue. It's something you and her do together, not something you do *to* her. And seduction should be something you do for your own enjoyment of it and not something you do to look cool to others. The competitive attitudes that have been cultivated among some guys in the seduction community do not help guys get started nor are they something that help guys who already have game advance their game and they are something that I would like to see abandoned.

For the record, I would like to at this time retract ANY criticism or chastising I have ever directed towards Mystery students for insisting that one has to see MM done IRL to get it because the same thing is true of Juggler Method. The body language and conversational style are a huge part of the method and it they don't come across completely on the internet.

*** JUGGLER AND "ALPHANESS" ***

Juggler's immediate observations of me were that I was "too alpha". By this he meant that I had a lot of energy which had times came off as being aggressive.

When I started as a newbie a long time ago, I thought this was important. So I tried to be as alpha as I could. My friends back home who are natural PUA's are all much MORE alpha than me and I thought I was FAR from being "too alpha" but Juggler thought otherwise. Since I don't even try to come across alpha at all anymore, this was something I did unconsciously probably as result of exposure to my very alpha friends. Juggler thought I needed to tone down the alphaness a little because since I am tall, have a deep voice, and have an expressive face with large eyes my alphaness was intimidating a lot of people. I never thought about it that way but he was right.

*** OPENING ***

The first real day of the workshop pretty much blew away any sticking point I had associated with opening. Prior to the workshop I could open fine MOST of the time but I tended to reuse canned openers a little too much and relied heavily on opinion openers (both of which I will still do occasionally).

What Juggler recommends is to enter a venue looking for openers rather than looking for targets. To look for creative pretenses to talk to anyone. Kids, UG's, dudes, old people, families. Whoever. If you can get good enough at this, starting conversations with women who are actual targets you want to seduce will be easier. Also, it's good to demonstrate to potential targets by talking to non-targets in their vicinity that you are a confident person who is genuinely interested in people and who has no problem talking to a stranger.

During one exercise, Juggler had us enter a Starbucks with a smile and get into a good interaction with the first or second person we see. I talked to a paramedic about my dad who is a cop back home and about his job for a while and then over by the cream counter I managed to rally a semi-large group of people around a picture hanging above the cream counter trying to figure out what the picture was actually OF. Fun stuff.

Statements make the strongest openers. "I like..." for example is something he uses.

Questions can be good as long as you can follow up with some good value-stacking statements following the question. Something as simple as "Hi, how are you?" with immediate follow-up in the form of statements can be good too.

As the workshop went on, I found myself becoming so interested in finding openers as a fun thing in itself that I would come up with openers and just HAVE to use them. I saw a girl in a club with white nail polish and I told her, "I like the way your nails glow under the black light." That opened really well, she was into me from the beginning.

Eavesdropping on conversations and jumping in with a relevant statement relating to the topic is good too.

Another way to create OPPORTUNITIES to open is to use what Juggler calls a "break". Both Stormwolf and I found this to be very effective. Breaks can be either verbal or physical. It is an action, physical or verbal that gets her attention but is not directed AT her.

A verbal break would be to start a conversation with someone on the OTHER SIDE of her from you and when she demonstrates attention to what is being said, involve her.

A physical break is to stand near her but look at something other than her and when you see that she perks up and looks at you, open her. It's very hard to explain all types of physical breaks without seeing it demonstrated IRL. You can get very effective with the KINDS of physical breaks you do. Physical breaks are deadly effective opening tools. Particularly effective in the situation of two girls sitting at a table. Sometimes you have to get WAY close and actually try it a few times to actually get the break, but once you do get it and you open when it happens you are in a MUCH better position than if you had opened only by talking to them without having their attention as result of a physical break.

I simple example of an effective physical break would be those we did in our approaches of women on benches in the mall.

Imagine that you are walking forward down a hallway and there is a target ahead sitting on a bench on the left side. To do a physical break you would walk by her close enough that she notices you and you turn to the left TOWARDS HER as you sit on the other side of her. This will be very likely to get her to look at you RIGHT AWAY at which time you can go right into your opener.

Although we did not field test this in the workshop, Juggler mentioned that he would sometimes just go up and introduce himself with his name as an opener. When I asked Juggler if he liked Gunwitch's idea of introducing yourself with your first and last name he agreed with Gunwitch that it would demonstrate a lot of confidence.

With static (stationary) as opposed to dynamic (moving) targets, there is not too much pressure to have to open with the first thing you say. Sometimes you can drop statements out separated by some lull before you finally crack the nut and get her to open.

*** BODY LANGUAGE ***

It's funny that Juggler is such an expert on body language since his own posture is actually pretty bad. Nonetheless it works well for him since the most important thing is to appear RELAXED. Perfect posture is not all that important. Besides, consciously second-guessing your posture looks bad if it comes across. Just be relaxed, when it's unconscious, it's genuine.

I never imagined there were so many body language mistakes there were in my game until Juggler saw me in action. I don't know HOW long it would have taken me to figure all this out.

I have a tendency to talk with my hands a lot. Since I am a pretty good size dude HIGH arm movements can be intimidating. Juggler suggested that I talk with my hands all I want but to keep them at waist level and below. I did it and it seemed to work well.

On one occasion I was sarging a girl in a club with Juggler observing right behind me and I accidentally raised my left hand up high quickly and I slapped my left hand with my right while looking at Juggler and he cracked up laughing. Hahaha!

He also noticed I had a bad habit of "hen pecking", which is when she wants to so you something or you learn over to hear her better moving just your HEAD over to her without the rest of your body. Juggler said to close the distance whenever I have the opportunity. I did not interpret this advice correctly at first and in the same sarge as the hand-slap Juggler observed that she was really into me and liking my game but a little annoyed that I kept encroaching on her by moving myself closer to her while keeping myself square. This was another example of intimidating body language for a person my size. Instead, Juggler said that the more intimate position I should move towards is hip-to-hip. Juggler views physical closeness itself as actually more important than kino.

At one point, Juggler and Stormwolf watched me sarge a Japanese girl on a mall bench. She was into me but was a little embarrassed due to the language barrier. She spoke softly and I "hen pecked" to hear her instead of scooting my whole body towards her.

While sitting beside a woman you are sarging it's also good to be turned at an angle that is towards her rather than straight ahead.

Juggler advises to keep your body trunk still while you talk, whether or not you talk with your hands. If you do talk with your hands, make the hand movement match up with your speaking delivery and move your head towards the person who is talking whether it be your target, your wing, or someone in the group.

*** CONVERSATIONAL STRUCTURE ***

In my interpretation, the most important parts of Juggler's conversational structure are the following:

1) Generating Value by Making Statements

A statement provides value, a question asks the other person to provide value. You want to make mostly statements. In fact, we went for a few hours of sarging and talking to people where we restrained ourselves from asking ANY questions to anyone. Requests for information from others had to be phrased as a statement. Try doing this for a long time, it will change your perspective on the issue tremendously.

Ultimately you want the target to express herself and you will run into some situations where you do have to ask some questions to get that to happen but it's best to limit it. Juggler explains it more fully in this post...

http://www.fastseduction.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?action=retrieve&grp=6&mn=103917622022773

2) Management of Conversational Threads

Anything you talk about becomes a conversational thread. Conversational threads can spin off in different directions and give rise to new ones.

Juggler recommends to let her interrupt you. Never fight her for the floor. If you have to fight for the floor you don't deserve to have it at that point. If she is talking, that means she is expressing which is what you want her to do anyway. Also, the thread that is broken by the interruption is something you can come back to later. It's best not to force it.

This is something you can practice all the time even when you are not sarging and it was something particularly helpful to me since Juggler mentioned the fact that I am naturally a long-threaded conversationalist as one of my SP's. His feedback was that the things I have to say are very interesting but they come in long chunks that I tend to want to get across in their entirety and that interacting with me can be tiring because of that.

One problem with using patterns is that guys become attached to and they always want to finish them. Juggler encourages guys to give up those attachments. Being experienced in SS, I can say that I am sure there will be times in the future I will run some patterns for the hell of it if it fits the situation well but a lot of times the girls are just not trying to hear any of that stuff and you have to recognize that. Which brings me to my next point...

3) Noticing Her Reactions

Break up your stories. Give her a chance to react. Don't feel responsible for her reaction. You should never feel responsible for her reaction. There is really not many things that are really BAD reactions. In fact you should not even need a reaction at all. When you make a statement you are just expressing, she is free to reaction however, and you pay attention to her reaction and either lead the convo or let her express depending on what is happening.

Part of the problem with using scripts and routines is that guys are looking for some reactions they think they should get but they are not. They feel responsible for the girls reaction. If one script doesn't give them the reaction they want, they'll run another and another. It is less like a dialogue and more like a monologue.

Some beginners who I have talked to say to me "Juggler's Method seems like it's just fluff. WRONG! Making strong statements about your observations and reactions to the world is VALUE, not fluff. The tendency to think in this way stems from a lack of experience and a belief on the part of some that anything that is not a packaged and prepared routine is fluff. Those ROUTINES are what is FLUFF!

Your observations and reactions to the world make you human and THAT is why they are value. Oh...and just so you know this, if you don't have observations of the world you trust enough to express you may want to consider the possibility you have serious self-esteem issues that are affecting your quality of life in an adverse way, but the GOOD THING...is that it's easily and quickly corrected.

Very important realization: THERE CAN BE LULLS IN CONVERSATION!

It's okay. You don't have to fill it up with script, after script, after script HOPING she approves of something you run by her. You say what you say from a place of genuine deeply-held belief and you need nobody's approval for that which you choose to share or express. Lulls are fine, just make sure that what you DO say are value-stacking statements.

If you have a hard time coming up with strong statements at a particular time, think about what you like and declare "I like (whatever)...". Get her attention doing that and throw another statement down about it and watch her reaction.

4) Advancing Interactions at Conversational High-Points

Examples of Advancing Include:

- Introducing Yourself
- Closing Physical Distance
- Kino
- SOI

You want to do these things at high-points of enthusiasm in the interaction such as laughter or enthusiastically agreeing on some point that was made, etc.

Many guys will, for example, introduce themselves at a low point in the interaction or a lull in the conversation and that is a mistake. If you are in a lull, you need to stack some value with statements and get back up to a high point before you advance.

5) Positivity

You can talk about things that are a little bit negative but try to put a positive spin on it. Juggler caught me on this a few times. We'd be sarging and I'd mention "I live in Portland, it's really just a small town with big buildings."

"What's GOOD about that, SexPDX?", Juggler would mention noticing the negative connotation in my language.

"What's really cool about it is that you get the pleasant ambiance of a smaller town atmosphere with large amount of people and larger city type of things to do.", I would add.

6) Changing Topics

Really where you want to be is the feeling of being able to talk about ANYTHING. Instead of DEEP rapport (talking in depth on ONE thread) what you want is WIDE rapport (ability to talk about anything. You can test this by abruptly changing topics to something totally different.

I was in a situation once this weekend where the chick was on a thread that was hopelessly negative and I could not put a positive spin on it. I changed topics right from bus bombings in Israel to bears totally out of nowhere and I pulled it off.

*** LISTENING & PROVING YOU ARE LISTENING ***

To listen is not enough. You have to prove you are listening to her. A few ways to do this.

1) Listen with a blank, still look.

Don't react to what she is saying until she is done. React to what is said in the full context of the message. Don't nod and go "Yeah, uh huh, I see" while she is talking because that comes across as blindly agreeing and also that you are not even listening.

2) Amplify Her Reactions

Whatever reaction she has to something repeat it back to her in a way that demonstrates an understanding of it. If it's a negative reaction, try to put a positive spin on it. I just typed out several examples of this and none of them are going to come across correctly in text, so I have give up. That's a treat I guess will have to be left for the workshop.

*** AMOG SITUATIONS ***

Juggler was very good at confidently introducing himself to guys. Particularly befriending peacocking guys. However, how to handle a particular AMOG intrusion situation was the only major disagreement I had (and still have) with him all weekend. Here is what happened...

Juggler opened who I thought was the hottest chick in the club and left me with her while he went to find Stormwolf. Whatever Juggler said to her generated a lot value quickly because I was IN when he left and he did so quickly. In clubs you have to open with strong statements. Everything in the beginning has to be nothing but VALUE, VALUE, VALUE or you will not get in and stay in.

Anyway, I talked to the HB for about ten minutes. Good interaction. I think she was mainly just happy to be talking to a genuine person somewhere she would not expect to.

After a while a guy slightly shorter than me but we built approached us and held a lime up to me. "Here he said," looking at the lime as though to suggest I take it from him. I just looked him in the eye and didn't say anything.

"You should have this," he said, "you are a limey guy."

"Come again.", I said.

At that point the HB came between us, leaned her back against me and tried to take the lime from him.

"I want the limey guy to have it," he insisted. I just smirked and looked at him while shaking my head slowly. He walked away. I talked to the HB some more and she introduced me to three of her friends so I had a 4-set going for a little bit. After a while the HB I was originally talking to left and I mentioned the lime situation to her friend who told me AMOG was her BF.

I talked to the HB for a while after the interaction with AMOG and she did NOT mention that he was her BF. I think it's because he acted like such an ass that she was embarrassed to admit it.

Juggler's take on this is that he would not have "fought" with the guy and probably would have TAKEN the lime from him. Sorry, Juggler, bad move IMO. If I had taken the lime from him he would have said, "There you go, buddy" and shoulder-blocked me out. He was testing me to see I would let him punk me out and I didn't stand for it. I would be really curious if there were a way to recreate the exact same situation with Juggler in it instead of me how it would have gone down but I have trouble seeing taking the lime from the AMOG as the right move.

*** WINGSMANSHIP ***

Juggler's position on wingsmanship matched up perfectly with what I have always done. Wings have to be invited. I slipped up once on an escalator while he was sarging a chick and I jumped in with a comment during a lull and Juggler reminded me to let him have his lulls.

While sarging in groups at the club, Stormwolf and I would check up on each other and stand in the vicinity of the wing's group making it clear that we are available to be invited IF we are wanted in the sarge at that time. If we are not invited, then we assumed it was not necessary or convenient to invite the wing at that time.

*** WORKSHOP REVIEW CONCLUSION ***

I was thinking of taking this workshop when I was much newer to seduction and I am actually happy to have held off until now. I went in with enough game to really get a lot out of it and I was able to seduce an HB in an airport immediately afterwards for a lay. I do however, know guys who went in to Juggler's workshop very new and it helped them a lot so no matter what your level it is probably helpful.

The workshop is, like seduction itself, a cooperative effort. The participants in the workshop have a lot to do with how it goes. Stormwolf and I knew each other before the workshop and each had good skills. Having a newer guy along would have made it a little different but it still would have been fun. If the group were a larger one with a diversity in levels of experience (as Juggler told me he has had in the past), I could imagine it would help a lot for some more experienced guys to help Juggler in coming up with missions and exercises for the newer guys to do. Also, Juggler himself is skilled enough to pretty much open for anybody and have them be in at least for a while, or perhaps smooth it out if needed.

The workshop rocks. Juggler is THAT good, delivers the goods, yadda, yadda, yackidy shmackidy, whatever else you want to say....Hahaha!

Seriously, this is arguably the best $300 I have ever spent in my life. My game was good before I got there but it is much more polished now.

I barely got back to Portland in time for class and walking around campus and the way girls respond to me already is just a LITTLE different.

Also....dammit, Juggler! Now I can't even go to the friggin burrito hut down the street without getting into some long drawn out conversation where people are really interested in me. Geez, what have you done to me, man?!

*** LAY REPORT ***

The problem with Juggler Method LR's I can already see I am going to have is that I have quite a bit of trouble actually remembering what was said at what time. The reason for this is that it's a dialogue and not a monologue. The chronological order of events becomes muddied in your memory when working to recall an interaction where you were you had wide rapport and were in a state of free-flow expression. Nonetheless, I will do my best.

Juggler and I drove from Vancouver to Seattle where he would catch a flight home at 11:30 pm. On the way down we talked to our mutual friend, PiQL about the workshop and we talked with Wham while waiting to go through the border.

Having some time to kill in Seattle, we met up with my friend, Opus briefly.

I drove Juggler to the airport at about 8:30. I still had a hour drive ahead of me and I was visibly exhausted from the intensity of the weekend. I decided to chill with Juggler for a while inside before starting the drive down. While Juggler was at the ticket counter I was walking back and forth by people in a complete tired daze but still doing physical breaks, opening people, etc. It was like I was running on pure muscle memory after a weekend of non-stop sarging.

Juggler and I sat down at the coffee shop and talked for a while before I decided to go outside to smoke a cigarette. I invited Juggler to come with me but he declined.

Standing outside Sea-Tac Airport on the curb of the baggage claim pull-in area I saw HB SeaTac. The thing is, I didn't even approach her because she was hot. She only looked like a 7 at first in her scarf and long coat but she was a 9 when her clothes came off later! I approached her because I am now in the habit of looking for openings rather than targets and I saw an opportunity for a cool opener.

"I like the way you wear your scarf, vertically around the head like that....My friend Juggler was in France recently and he told me that's they way the wear it there....are you from France?"

We talked about travel and our experiences on our respective trips. She lived in Seattle, just got back from the East Coast and had a friend who was supposed to pick her up who she was having problems getting a hold of.

At one point I mentioned that I would think it would be cool to train sales people, not because I like the WORK of sales but because I found the interpersonal interactions aspect of it fascinating.

"You would be really good at that! Look how easily you can just walk up and talk to strangers like me.", she said.

"REALLY? You think so? Thanks a lot?"

I find it works well to respond really enthusiastically to her sincere compliments. When you compliment someone you kind of put yourself out there. I personally like it when *MY* compliments are well-received and I know it. Let her know she is making you feel good. It's almost like you are going DDB on HER.

At a high point in the interaction (laughter, I think) I SOI'd her with "I like you". She started asking me a lot of questions about how often I come to Seattle, etc. It was pretty clear she was into me. On top of that, knowing that she was in need of a ride home, a !close seemed like a very likely outcome here. I went to go find Juggler and tell him what was going on, but #closed her before I left in case her friend came by and scooped her up while I was inside.

Upon finding Juggler, I gave him a run-down on the situation and he agreed that she was into me. Juggler came down, and met her and talked very briefly before bidding me goodbye to go catch his plane.

She went back to talking about her friend who she hadn't gotten a hold of in 2 hours.

"You must feel so stranded," I said as I closed distance hip to hip and started kino, "but the good thing is that these situations get taken care of you can feel comfortable knowing that it doesn't last and that it will be okay."

"So are you going to be my savior?"

"To tell you the truth I am very hard-pressed ever to play the role of a knight in shinning armor but I will give it a shot this time."

On the way there she asked how Juggler and I knew each other and I told her the story Juggler and I had been using the whole workshop which was Juggler's dad used to date my mom.

I was so tired that it took me a really long time to remember where I parked my truck. On the way out of the parking garage she kept saying she didn't know what she would have done if it weren't for me. To which I responded C&Fishly, "I hear that a lot, what would everyone do without SexPDX?"

She expressed concerns for my safety in driving back to Portland which I was GENUINELY concerned about myself. I was making up my own lanes on I-5 on the way to her house! She offered to let me sleep over at her place. I was quick to set up a sort of poetic saving each other frame to by saying...

"Looks like you are saving me now."

"We are saving each other."

I few minutes after that I skipped the Delbert McClinton CD ahead to that song that goes...

He keeps sending me angels
Here they come a flyin'
He keeps sending me angels
To keep me from cryin'
He keeps sending me angels
Sweet and true
He keeps sending me angels
Just like...you

This whole "saviors of one another" frame complimented our matching state of being tired from travel quite well.

We talked about just about everything on the way back. Family, spirituality, past relationships, favorite movies, dogs, etc.

BTW, Juggler, I didn't actually ASK about her relationship situation but she brought it up for me which helped.

Everything was going really well except for the fact that she was nervous because the person who was supposed to give her a ride who she had not heard from also had her kids. (she has a 6 YO and a 3 YO).

When we got back to her place she put on some tea for me and started setting up the futon but I could tell she was nervous still. It was hard to tell if I was going to be able to get her to relaxed to be sexual.

She went to take a shower and while she was in there I called Stormwolf and got Juggler's cell phone number. I had hoped to catch Juggler while she was in the shower and get some quick advice but he had evidently turned it off.

When she came out of the show I saw just how hot her body was (which had been obscured by a long coat and otherwise thick layered clothing before. Yummy!!!

All the sudden we hear a not on the door and it's her friend dropping her kids off. Turns out her phone had some problems or something so she didn't get HB SeaTac's message.

Anyway, everyone was happy to know each other was okay and the kids and HB SeaTac were happy to see each other. The friend chatted with us briefly and left.

It was strange because normally the kids being home isn't considered a GOOD thing as far as !closing goes but here it definitely was!

I got in really good with her kids. They loved me. That never hurts.

At one point she pulled out some photos to look at and sat down next to me and after several sarges where I was corrected on it, I am completely broken of the hen pecking habit, I moved right in hip-to-hip.

Later on she went to put the kids to bed and that she would come out and talk to me.

She didn't come out after a few minutes so I assumed she fell asleep. At that time I was too tired to give a rip. However, I woke up at 6:am Monday morning and just reveled in the satisfaction of having had my first night of sleep that wasn't on a floor and lasted for more than 4 hours in days. HB SeaTac comes out and gets under the covers with me and we have sex.

During pillow-talk/afterplay I said...

"I have something to tell you. I have been truthful with you about everything so far...except for one thing. Juggler actually does have another job I didn't tell you about. He teaches seduction."

I proceeded to tell her about the workshop, ASF, why I got into all this, the whole nine yards. She found it interesting and was blown away by my honesty. But said, "You didn't seduce me, I seduced you."

"You are right," I said, "You did. That was the idea."

-PDX

phew very long i read it over at ASF, a great report/read , Jugglers got gold concepts as far as i can tell.
I love reading these type of things.

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH!

Can't wait to read this, Nick!



Looks awesome.

Sorry about being such a lazy fvck. I'll get onto my much-talked-about post soon, before the idea gets stale. Looks like you've paved the way for ME big time in the past few weeks.

SexPDX, you're an absolute LEGEND for typing all that out and posting it here!!!!!!!!!!!

Damn..that was good!!

I also want to see more of your posts about this. If anything, depending on where you post stuff, if you could provide us with the links in a thread on the DJ forums, that'd be great--so that we can see everything you post with respect to this seminar whether it be on at ASF forums or where-ever

Juggler sounds like a top bloke

One thing that I picked up from reading your posts was the emphasis on convo skills and value statements. It's all very interesting.

Plus it was interesting how you would not rely on scripted stuff but find 'openings' as you call it and approach based on the openings...

So even if its an ug or whatever..it doesn't matter..coz you're searching for the opening and not focusing on what you're gonna say to a HB...

Openings....too cool

That was amazingly good stuff! I wish I could participate in a workshop like this.

I have one question though about the "I like...." line. Will anything you say work? I mean, it sounds positive and can lead on to further discussion but many examples would fall flat.

For example:
Me: "I like cheese"

Her: OK............

Fantastic stuff.

You are one committed dude, Nick.

SexPDX,

This is the third time I've read this, and it just keeps getting better. I've taken something from this post each time I have read it. Very good content. Everyone on here should take the time to read this an apply it.

"If your rap is strong it can't go wrong."

thecraftylefty

I like the passive-aggressive approach juggler takes to the game. Being aware of yourself in order to make that impression, rather than what you talk about. Communicating without saying it in words. Good effort with the typing........


The ethical DJ - gt95ab

I like the openers thing, this is similar to something that I do naturally, I think a good opener, should be all about the moment either by something that is happening to you and the girl at the same time, or even better complimenting or noticing something about her.

If you notice something about her that's good, as as with conversation, the way to keep a convo going is by talking about the other person, not yourself.

It has to be something original / quirky and subtle though, the french head scarf thing is quite good, firstly it makes you stand out for probably being the first person to notice something like that, plus as it's a non-sexual thing I think it partially deflects the girls thoughts from 'this guy just wants to do me' plus it makes your compliment sound more real and less contrived.

The only thing that I hate about complimenting is just that, it sounds so ****ing phoney...

Had a go at knocking out the lines as a mate of mine calls it , one friend had got off his tits on alcohol, and argued with this girl, I went up and tried to smooth the situation, purely to prevent bad feeling, but this girl was hot as well.

Said "Why did he insult you, you look like a charming young lady to me."
When it came out my mouth I though "Blerguh! Fingers down throat"
But she lapped it up!

Lionheart.

Thats nice how you took the time to type all that out.

Its nice how you painted the image that juggler is a master, and that his "stuff" is very effective in getting women, and his stuff helped you out.

But lets cut to the chase. Exactly at what rate did you succeed? out of all the women you tried during that report, how many did you try? how many did you actually end up having sex with? and where any of them good looking? did they have all four limbs attatched (please dont tell me one of the girls you picked up was a gimp lol)

After figuring out how many women you have approached with intentions to get with, and how many of those women you actually screwed, you should come up with a % rate.

Id really like to know it. Becuase your story means **** to me. And so do the methods of the system if they arent deadly effective, bringing out high success rates.

Good report. I wish we had a forum devoted to seduction reports. Anyway, I THINK THIS SHOULD BE IN THE DJ BIBLE!

Originally posted by ELITE_WOMANIZER_II
But lets cut to the chase. Exactly at what rate did you succeed? out of all the women you tried during that report, how many did you try? how many did you actually end up having sex with? and where any of them good looking? did they have all four limbs attatched (please dont tell me one of the girls you picked up was a gimp lol)

Click to expand...

A few things to consider. I was learning a new method. As I said in the post, Juggler's method is about building strong rapport. Many of the women I interacted with were just for the purpose of exercises. The woman I laid was good looking. Juggler who met her and anyone in Club PDX who has seen her picture can tell you that.

Originally posted by ELITE_WOMANIZER_II

After figuring out how many women you have approached with intentions to get with, and how many of those women you actually screwed, you should come up with a % rate.

Click to expand...

I don't approach women with immediate intent to have sex with them. I approach them with SERIOUS DOUBT as to whether I would find them all that satisfying to actually have sex with.

To answer your question, however, there were only TWO occasions during my time with Juggler where I absolutely decided I was going in for the kill and I succeeded on one such time.

The other situation I did not write about (which I may post about soon) was in a club where I got crazy kino in on a REALLY hot girl and after consulting with Juggler and Stormwolf I decided to trying using Gunwitch Method on her. If you don' t know what I am talking about go read...

gunwitch.fastseduction.com

If you are going in for the lay and you are not concerned with all the rapport stuff, that's what I recommend using.

I failed that time but I did the method. I projected sexual state and pushed until I was rejected HARD.

I know my sh1t, dude. If you want to put my game under scrutiny, that is totally fine, it's what these discussions are for. But it would be nice if you contributed something yourself. All I have ever seen YOU do is take shots at those who ARE contributing. In fact you were banned for your refusal to contribute and unfortunately someone has rolled the rock off the top of the retard cave and let you back out.

That being said, continue to scrutinize my game with or without or own contributions. My game can stand up to scrutiny and I don't hide behind a friggin monitor either. Come to PDX country and you can see me in the field. Plenty of people in the community have already.

-PDX

It is a shame that fools like Elite Womanizer can pollute an otherwise excellent and informative thread.

BTW, I have seen a picture of the woman in question and she is extremely hot. In the 9-10 range and she looks very classy. I'm sure that a lady like that gets approached and rejects tons of hot guys with game. This is no small feat.


Cesare Cardinali

Originally posted by SexPDX
unfortunately someone has rolled the rock off the top of the retard cave and let you back out.

Click to expand...

LOL! This dipsh!t gets his energy from sucking it out of others. Don't let him have it.

Now that I'm finished pissing my pants, I have to say that although I have no desire to enter the world of SS I find the mechanics of it fascinating and have found plenty of good stuff in this post that could potentially help me in other aspects of interpersonal relations. Thanks for the info.

man am i glad i decided to read this post (1, its long. 2, its in the discussion forum which i come to about once a month, 3, what are the odds of me picking a post like this!!!)

this is absolutely fabulous.

sex PDX wrote:

"I don't approach women with immediate intent to have sex with them. I approach them with SERIOUS DOUBT as to whether I would find them all that satisfying to actually have sex with."

give me a break. This is just your way of rationalizing the fact that a girl may be into you enough to talk to you, and give her your number, but not interested in having sex with you. This is you way of rationalizing the rejection from a girl who doesnt want to have sex with you becuase your game isnt exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer.

This is what you tell yourself when you approach a girl, becuase you know the chance she doesnt want to have sex with you looms ahead, becuase you are unsure of your own abilitiy. You know that just becuase she gives you her number, you know that doesnt mean shes gonna have sex with you.

Besides, this board teaches people to rationalize rejections with "she failed to recognize you were good material; since she failed to realize that, she doesnt meet your standards, so just move on, and find a girl who does meet your standards". THis is a concept that i see spread around on this board alot. And thats basically what your doing. Using this concept when you say you want to find out if shes worth having sex with.

occording to this concept, a woman being interested in you constitutes when a girl meets a man's standards. And when shes not interested in the guy, it means she is below the standard. RATIONALIZATION, thats all it is, and thats all your doing when you lie to yourself, and say "oh, she doesnt meet my standards for having sex". What you really mean is "I can tell shes not into me sexually, so im just gona lie to myself, and say 'Im not interested in sex' just to make myself feel better.

number 2, you admitted that you tried 2 women with the intent to have sex with, failed one, and succeeded the other. So occording to this, at best, your success was 50%. Though, the reality is, you failed on all those other women, you just lied to yourself in saying "i didnt want sex from them"

You couldnt get se from those other women if you wanted to. with that said, you add those women into the equation, and it goes like this.....had sex with one woman, failed on a big handful of others. Lets face it, you only laid one girl, but you PU attempted many many many others. So that doesnt look to good at all.

number 4, you said all the women were for practic huh, Oh, its funny how all the woman you failed to lay, you call them "practice", but when you lay that one girl you refer to it as "the real deal attempt". Sounds like more rationalizing to me for your rejections. weither it was practice or not, you skills dont look too good. WHAT IF THOSE WOMEN WERE FOR REAL? you still would have failed to have sex with them. you still would have only laid that one girl. Its not like when its the "real deal" your success rate goes up. weither it really was for practice or not, you still failed on all of them, and only layed on girl. ONE GIRL, THATS IT.

at the end of the day, your success rate was low. And painting the picture that jugglers advice helped you is pointless and false. having sex with one girl out of many attempts arent skills to brag about. If you have sex with more than half of those women, then I would see credibilty in juggler's/your skills.

number 5, wheres your crediblility in what you say? you just now come out and say "I admit, I wanted to have sex with that one girl, but I got rejected hard" you also admit to not mentioning this event in the main post. It makes me wonder HOW MANY OTHER WOMEN HAVE YOU FAILED TO MENTION IN YOUR MAIN POST? once again, you lose credibility in what you say, keeping important information from the readers of your post. Who knows what other peices of information you are keeping from us. You keep information from us to make yourself look good. YOUR INTENT WAS TO PAINT A PICTURE THAT JUGGLER'S SKILLS AND YOUR SKILLS ARE AWESOME. but its basically a false image your painting. The only reason why you come out and admit that rejection, is becuase I pressed you for it. Had I not done that, it still would have been a secret to the readers of this post.

So what else are you lying about? what other peices of information ar you keeping from us? what other women did you really want to have sex with, got rejected, and have not yet told about? again, you just lose credibility, and come across as a liar. Im very sure in your reply to this, you will once again release even more information that was kept secret from the readers in an attempt to restore your credibility. And of course, it will be information about the flaws, fualts, and failures of this big report you have posted, stuff you dont feel comfortable of people knowing. of course, you know im right, I can see through the deceit in your "stories". ANd im just showing the readers the reality. So please dont try to tell lies and keep stuff secret from us, just to protect your image.

number 6, I do make conributions to this board. about 90% of my posts are correcting the mistakes of others(this post is an acception;the 10% acception). some guy thought waiting 7 days to call would benefit him, I had to corrrect him. I thoink correcting someone on their mistakes constitutes as a contribution, dont you? I thought so. So you know as well as I do that its a lie that I make no contributions what so ever.

The purpose of this post is to make the people see the truth in your posts. You posted this big story, trying to make it seem like the new **** you learned from juggler is gold, and hes some kind of god. My contribution is that im showing the readers the truth, so they wont be deceived by your exaggerated stories. Im protecting them from your lies. I want them to see the truth for what it really is. THat the methods of juggler's are VERY FLAWED. and that it wont bring them success like your making it seem.

Im showing them the truth. thats my contribution.

Why dont you come down to ATL sexPDX, youll get creamed, Ive read your stuff, And it is lame. And will not work on the women down here. I dont know where your at, but something tells me the women over their are easy as hell.