Tenacity's Pictures (View and Post Opinions)

So all of these pictures were snapped pretty quickly, sorry if I don't look that clean cut lol. My bathroom counter (and mirror) is a little sloppy as well.

Take a look at the slide show and let me know what you guys think:

http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/Tenacity99/slideshow/

I'm trying to get my lower abs to come in more clearly. I posted my routine in the previous thread but here's what I have been doing pretty consistently now for the last 3 months:

- I do about 35 workout sessions a month. 10 sessions are Chest/Tri/Shoulders, 10 sessions are Legs/Back/Biceps, and 15 sessions are just Abs.

My eating plan goes as follows:

Meal One: Protein Shake

3-4 hours pass

Meal Two: Small piece of baked pork chop, corn, apple, and water.

6-8 hours pass

Meal Three: Baked chicken wings, green beans, apple, and water.

6-8 hours pass but this is usually sleep time or nape time give or take

(repeat above)

24 Hour Cycle with two Protein Shake Meals and two Regular Meals comes out to the following within that 24 hour time period:

Calories: 2,100 - 2,260
Proteins: 218 grams
Carbs: 84 grams


- My supplements are ON Whey Gold Standard, ON Opti-Men, Fish Oil and Green Tea Extract.

Anybody lol?

Good arm/shoulder development. Your makeup is similar to mine, I think you are leaner than I am. I'd get rid of the corn and add in leafy vegetables.

Guess we all know you are really black now, right? :yes:

Thanks guys and yes speed dawg lol, Jaylon and the crew can now stop calling me a white guy with a digital black face or whatever lol.

Espi I have been committed to the current plan for a good 3 months now. That's the current eating plan and the frequency of the workouts. Since doing so I have been seeing everything coming in.

I have been speaking with Effort on the side and looking at changing some of the food items to organic. I'm in Michigan and the Local Meijer over here has Organic options as well as Meijer Naturals which are both more healthier options like Effort was describing. Effort also said to change the ON Protein to another source, and I'm looking at that as well.

Good base. I would estimate 15-17% bf. Your ideal goal would be 10-12% for full abs showing while unflexed.

Drop 10 lbs. of weight for fat reduction via calorie restriction not to exceed a 300-400 calorie deficiency and/or increase cardio not to exceed 30-40 minutes per session, while keeping protein intake at min 1 - 1.5g per lean mass weight.

You will ALWAYS look sharper at 10-12% than above.

So you guys recommend doing Cardio? I have kept Cardio off because I was told it would burn off muscle. Should I add in the HITT Cardio and should I do it on an empty stomach?

As I mentioned in the original post, 15 of my sessions a month are Abs only, I can easily add about 30 minutes of HITT Cardio to that. That would burn off some additional calories because I think it's going to be hard to eat any less than I am now.

But I just wanted to confirm, should I do HITT Cardio or not because I was told it would burn off muscle?

Studies have shown HITT to be more effective in fat loss by increasing overall metabolic rate. Anecdotally, I never tried HITT. I do conventional low-intensity cardio with a tight diet, and maintain between 10-12% bf.

Do what works for you, as we have differing levels of testosterone, estrogen, cortisol, gf-1, insulin etc. Different hormone profiles call for different plans. For example if your T levels were above 1000 ng/dl, you could get away with an hour of higher-intensity cardio with little muscle loss. Conversely, if your T level were 200 ng/dl, you would burn more muscle with lengthy cardio intensity/sessions.

Make a plan, learn your body, evolve your plan accordingly. Most importantly, stick with it.

Lower Abs

The standard response is that there's no such thing as the lower abs, it's all one muscle, but I'm starting to think that while this is true...it's incorrect in terms of training.

I think there has to be some sort of serious training towards the lower abs, and it's my biggest issue right now. All I'm told is to continually "burn body fat" but there are guys out there with an under 10% BF who STILL have the lower fat pouch. So the guys will just tell him, "Well, get to 5% BF then." I call bullshyt.

I think there are certain exercises that need to be performed that specifically target the lower abs and I'm thinking that the reason this "lower ab pouch" is still here, is because MOST of the abs exercises target the obliques and the upper abs, which is why my upper abs and obliques are visual/defined (the 4 pack)...but my lower abs still have this pouch on it.

If someone can give me some information on this I would appreciate it. I don't want to be rude though, but please don't just say the canned responses of, "Get to 5% BF and everything will be okay," I think that's bullshyt. What I believe is happening is that I'm not DEVELOPING THE LOWER AB MUSCLE, and that's why the pouch is here. Because damn it, if it was all about body fat, why the hell isn't it on the upper abs and obliques then? I'll tell you why, it's because the ab exercises that I am doing are targeting/working those muscles and not doing shyt for the lower abs.

I am just passionate about getting this lower ab pouch off, that's really my only major issue. Once that shyt is off I can take my shirt off because the chicks I talk to sees my body as it is right now as "fit enough". I'm not really trying to look like the Ultimate Warrior with veins coming out of everywhere. I want to have a decently toned appearance and continue my workout sessions/eating plan for the LONG TERM to be in total good physical health. This in combination with my Mental Health being sound as well which I have continually been working on because I do have issues with stress, anger and bitterness.

Are you talking about the "v-line"? This is one of the things I'm going to prioritize once I get the basic workout body (decent arms, chest, and abs). If this is what you're talking about, then there are exercises that target it specifically. Since it's a very common thing to want (girls are obsessed with it), there are tons of things about it online. For example, here's the first thing that the search turned up: http://www.daveywaveyfitness.com/ask-davey/how-to-get-v-line-abs

While having a low body-fat percentage is one of the requirements, you must also target that part of the muscles when working out.

DoctorCoops said:

Are you talking about the "v-line"? This is one of the things I'm going to prioritize once I get the basic workout body (decent arms, chest, and abs). If this is what you're talking about, then there are exercises that target it specifically. Since it's a very common thing to want (girls are obsessed with it), there are tons of things about it online. For example, here's the first thing that the search turned up: http://www.daveywaveyfitness.com/ask-davey/how-to-get-v-line-abs

While having a low body-fat percentage is one of the requirements, you must also target that part of the muscles when working out.

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Not even really the V-line, I mean I would love to have it but I think getting that does depend on your Genetics and how your Abs are structured. I just want the lower pouch gone, I mean I would be happy just to have it FLAT right there and just have the 4 pack and obliques showing.

I'm thinking more along the lines of the fact that I haven't been working hard my Transverse Abdominal - http://abbycampbell.hubpages.com/hub/How-to-Exercise-Transverse-Abdominal-Muscles

This article that I found seems to be speaking to what I might have been doing wrong by not incorporating the Transverse movements into my workout more.

Also this post from BB.com really gave me some insights as well:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=143410703

This link goes into the different Ab structures. I think I honestly only have a 4 pack and I just need to work on getting the lower pouch gone to where it's FLAT there, then I'm straight.

If you're a typical American, you sit on your ass all day and your diet is predominately garbage. That's why you don't have abs.

People (and animals) tend to store fat on body parts that aren't used as much as others. Therefore, the idea that you can't 'spot-reduce' is wrong. Although it's true that you can't spot-reduce what's there, you can keep it from accumulating to begin with. At this point, your only option is to get way down in bodyfat %, then AFTER that point, you can work your abs more and prevent fat from ever being deposited there. But then again, that would mean working your abs more than other areas, which is impossible. Therefore, your only option is to keep the BF% low.

So in essence, yes, unfortunately the truth is what you do not want to hear. Or, get liposuction.

My question though, is that why does the 4 pack show then? I think what you have is mainly a requirement to eat right and build the muscle through exercise. You would be focused on losing weight and BF percentage, which allows you to see the muscles you have built through exercising.

So I'm not looking to stop the eating plan nor the weight management, I'm wondering if the exercises I'm doing are hitting the lower ab area? The research I did on the Transverse Abs was interesting because I haven't been incorporating those movements into my routine and I'm wondering if that's adding to the issue?

I'm going to add those movements to my routine starting tomorrow. I'm also going to be updating my picture thread around May 4th which would be one month since I took the previous pictures.

Tenacity said:

So I'm not looking to stop the eating plan nor the weight management, I'm wondering if the exercises I'm doing are hitting the lower ab area? The research I did on the Transverse Abs was interesting because I haven't been incorporating those movements into my routine and I'm wondering if that's adding to the issue?

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Arnold used to say that he ONLY worked his lower abs (with weight), because he didn't believe that abs needed much strength work. Don't get me wrong, he definitely hit all parts of his abs, but it was his lower abs that he really 'lifted' weight with and tried to build strength. The rest was just very high intensity and high rep just to get through it.

It's been a few years, but he goes into detail in his Encyclopedia of Bodybuilding (don't go by any googled Askmen.com articles). He acknowledged that the #1 aspect of ab training was eating clean. Of course, he bombed all other areas of the body so abs got a particularly good workout before he directly trained them.

Espi said:

In my opinion, the coveted "V" physique is largely hereditary.

Having a small waist helps, and anybody can diet down and narrow the midsection through a solid diet, but having broad shoulders is largely genetic.

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I think that guy was talking more about the V that is right above your d*ck.

Espi said:

Tenacity--to me, you seem dead set on hearing only what you want to hear.

You can do a gazillion "lower abs" exercises and you STILL won't have a 6-pack...unless you are dieting correctly. And when I say "dieting correctly", I mean LOSING WEIGHT, aka, BURNING FAT.

You can have strong-as-hell abs, but they ain't gonna SHOW unless you burn the fat off. Do you get that?

Enter any gym in January, and you're bound to see obese newbies doing crunches, because they mistakenly think that working the abs will somehow incinerate all the fat that they've amassed over the months and years. But they're just wasting their time. They got fat because they ate too much and they stopped moving around. They would burn the fat and show the abs SO much quicker if they simply restricted their calories, ate the right foods, and engaged in daily cardio.

It's that simple. Not easy. But simple: food and cardio.

And I've never personally met ANYBODY who has low bodyfat and a pouch--that just makes no sense to me. Maybe there are a few exceptions, but exceptions don't change the rules that much.

When I was at or below 10% BF this past summer (and my pictures are plastered all over this site, so take it from somebody who's been-done-that), my "lower abs", as well as my entire midsection--were completely lean and ripped--yet, I did VERY LITTLE "lower abs" exercises. In fact, I rarely EVER did any traditional abs exercises i.e. crunches, situps, etc.

What got me ripped and my abs to show was plenty of CARDIO and the right FOOD. I hit the treadmill nearly every day for 45-60 minutes, and I ate the right nutrients at the right time, and I was persistent. It took me about 6 weeks, but that was what worked.

Stop trying to reinvent the wheel and just accept the fact that when you don't burn fat, you don't get abs.

No amount of "lower abs" exercises is gonna change that rule. A gazillion-billion hanging leg raises done over the span of 50 years won't result in abs--unless you burn the fat that is currently covering them.

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^^ This.

Tenacity, your bf level is in the high-teens. Don't think about a six-pack (including lower abs) until you get closer to 10%. Your lower abs and lower back will be last to appear while dieting down.

And for the record, I also never do ab exercises, as they are already overworked through heavy compound lifts. My six-pack fully appears only when I get below 12% bf. Body fat levels below 8% are for competitive bodybuilders attempting to deepen their striations and vascularity, not so much for abs.

It all comes down to lowering your bf% and eating right. You can work out your abs, but it will make them blockier.

But guys here's the thing, I'm already on the good eating plan and doing my 35 workout sessions a month. So when you guys say to just get the BF low, are you saying just to keeping going with what I'm already doing and just give it TIME to come down further? How much more TIME? A year?

I don't do Cardio right now because I think it burns off most of my muscle, but I can easily add Cardio in.

Espi you mentioned 6 weeks, well, it's been well over 6 weeks for me and my BF hasn't come down like that. I haven't measured my BF percentage but I do agree with you guys, I think it might be around 13% - 17%, or let's just say 15%.

Also while you guys are here, another question I have is what is the deal with Corn? I have seen it posted on this forum many times that one shouldn't eat Corn, why is that? Corn is a big part of my eating plan for my veggie source. I alternate between the Corn and Green Beans.

Corn has sugar in it, which is why they make high-fructose corn syrup out of it.

You're not going to get abs without either cardio or a massively restrictive diet. A "good" diet isn't enough. You'll build muscle with all that weight lifting, but your body fat isn't going to drop to 6-pack levels with just weightlifting.

Espi said:

My advice to you a few weeks ago...I stand by my words.

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One of our posters said it took 6 straight weeks diet and excersize to go from 20% to 10%. Imagine if it takes another 6 weeks to go from 10% to 5%... Bodybuilders strip down for 12 weeks before an important competition. If they have to do it, you have to do it to if you want a great result.