Are You "Pro-Masculine" or "Anti-Feminine" ?

TheException · Feb 16, 2015

Is sosuave really what you imagined it would be?

Is it any different from when you first arrived here?

Did you come here for HELP or to BASH S1UTS?

Where does the line of "red pill" end and where does the line of "ManoMastur"(manosphere masturbator) begin?

Did you come hoping to find out how to be better with girls? Or did you come to become paranoid about what your girlfriend is doing everytime she goes out without you?

Frankly....the state of sosuave is in civil war.

In one corner you have noobies coming in without the slightest clue of how to attract the high quality women he seeks and the men who are here to help these men succeed. In the other corner you have the fear mongering, ManoMasturs (who think everyone but them is blue-pill), women bashing, CWAF(constantly worried about fidelity) men whose sole purpose here is to assume the worst case scenario when it comes to women because.....they are "manipulative", "evil", "s1uts", "greedy" etc etc.

Which corner do you reside in? Do you provide POSITIVE energy to this forum? Or do you provide NEGATIVE energy disguised as "red-pill" ?

Sosuave was once filled with intelligent men who proclaimed

1) Self Improvement

2) Pro Masculinity

3) Becoming the MOST ATTRACTIVE man possible

Instead....today, many members look to shift blame to females. They fail to take responsibility. That's because it's easy......THATS RIGHT.....ITS FVCKING EASY TO BLAME WOMEN. Its much much harder to look at things for what they really are. Women are NOT evil or manipulative. They only appear such if you DO NOT understand them and their nature. Men who "get it" literally silently shake their head when they hear such excuses.

I am going to provide some quotes from Pook's "Be A Man" thread...and you tell me which corner Pook resides in.

They are simply acting as women do, as in their nature. The problem is not with them, it is with guys.

We are afraid to embrace OUR nature, that of being a Man. Being in a culture that sees Manhood as predatory and oppressive and uncouth, we cover it up within ourselves.

Just be a Man! There is no need to reprogram yourself. You will have the interests you have, the hobbies you have, the body you have, but you can easily become a MAN. It is all simply in the way how you think and as you think you shall become.

A Man follows the passion in his life. Passion of women? Of course not. A Man has goals and desires that goes above that of chasing chicks. After childhood, there are TRUE winners and losers in life. A Man desires to be the winner. A Man WANTS to win in what he does. Because of his passion, a Man can sometimes come off as arrogant and egotistical. He does not apologize for this or for his desires.

No, gentlemen, the disgrace of men is in not embracing your true nature: following your passion and, thus, loving life. Women are to enhance your life, not to be your life.

Men build towers; women build webs. If you aren't constructing your tower or aren't even planning it, why should she cast her web at you? If you want worthy chicks, you, yourself, must strive to become worthy.

Be a Man! And with it, you will advance in your career, your social life, and even your dealings with women.

Men are very rare these days

Which corner do you think Pook is in?

So....what corner are you in? Pro-Masculine or Anti-Feminism?

Do you come here yearning to learn about how to be an attractive man.....or how to surround a woman in boundaries hoping she never ventures outside of them?

Do you want to attract a HIGH QUALITY WOMEN because you are a HIGH QUALITY MAN......or do you want to "seduce" a woman into a relationship with you?

Want to change your mindset as part of a lifelong change for the better....or learn some quick "tactics" to increase your lay count?

It is all laid out before you on these forums. No one is forcing you into either camp. BUT I.....will not stand by and let individuals continue to lay blame at the feet of women. No accountability whatsoever for themselves. It's pathetic and a sign of a weak weak man.

I am honored to aid fellow man. That is why I am here. I am not here to argue and persuade. Nothing will come of that. Noobies.....seek out men who give their knowledge and experience with good willed intentions and do not care about little green bars.

ALWAYS TAKE RESPONSIBILITY. Don't seek to blame others for the failures of yourself.

No.Danny · Feb 16, 2015

Stop playing the game

stevo · Feb 16, 2015

Haha thanks for making this thread, I was thinking about making one similar. Where advise givers would state their core stance so when they give advise, the reader can reference that thread to understand the adviser's mindset to either accept or take the advise with a grain of salt. Heck that alone would save a lot of back and forth argument.

There are really two different crowds on here and I can imagine a poster even further confused after receiving POV from both crowds.

Women are just that, women. They are human beings. Human beings are unpredictable. Human beings have the ability to do whatever they want whenever they want.

I cheer for self improvement.

Those with relationships:
You see a woman that wants to stay with you, would.

It's up to you to make it a painful experience for her to stay with you or an enjoyable experience to be with you.

I preach for men to focus on themselves, if you build yourself up, she'd come.

You should not have to do anything extra for her attention, you should simply BE.

Those with women trouble:
Stop picking apart every single thing she does or have the ability to do, you'd lose your mind.

Stop forgetting there's an abundance of awesome women

She's just like every other person, she's not special yet until she's proved herself over some years.

It'd either work or it wont.

I'll share my personal philosophy:

I hold my hand out, palm open. The flower can stay on my hand by its choosing or it could go with the wind, by its choosing. I wont close my hand to secure the flower because that'd end up shattering the flower or suffocating the flower.

And that is how I treat all my plates. I'm making a conscious decision to be with you (leaving my palm open), she's making a conscious decision to be with me (staying on my palm).

Not sure if my mentality fall under pro-masculine or anti-feminism but there you have it.

TheException · Feb 17, 2015

PairPlusRoyalFlush said:
I think people that bash men and call them insecure constantly and never place any blame on the woman in any situation are anti masculine and I think that people that excuse women of all blame and treat them like they are just a little helpless children and not human beings are anti feminine so it's a false dichotomy from the get go. paternalistic old fashioned white knighting is the only constant

Your words are no surprise. You clearly reside in corner 2 and show zero ambition to ever leave it.

Its hard to look at oneself and find blame or areas in need of improvement. Its easy to make excuses and blanket statements. If I call someone insecure....it is for their benefit. It is in hopes that they identify the problem area and seek to banish it. Its when men overcome their fears and insecurities that they are truly free.

stevo said:
I'll share my personal philosophy:

I hold my hand out, palm open. The flower can stay on my hand by its choosing or it could go with the wind, by its choosing. I wont close my hand to secure the flower because that'd end up shattering the flower or suffocating the flower.

And that is how I treat all my plates. I'm making a conscious decision to be with you (leaving my palm open), she's making a conscious decision to be with me (staying on my palm).

Not sure if my mentality fall under pro-masculine or anti-feminism but there you have it.

Welcome to Corner 1

Desdinova · Feb 17, 2015

Frankly....the state of sosuave is in civil war.

Sosuave has been in a state of civil war since the day I joined back in 2001. It's been Don Juans vs Speed Seduction, Mystery Method vs Speed Seduction, NEXT vs Ganji Games, etc etc. MGTOW is just another phase in the evolution of this place.

I am going to provide some quotes from Pook's "Be A Man" thread...and you tell me which corner Pook resides in.

If you look at Pook's final posts here and read his blog (Pook's Mill), you'll see that Pook very much became anti-feminism. He actually appeared to be spinning his wheels on this subject, which was very unfortunate.

You can bytch about it, join the movement, or figure out how to make the best of the current state of society. The choice is yours.

Skyline · Feb 17, 2015

Corner 2 never really affected me in a noticeable way because I know that both genders are messed up in their own way instead of one gender holding all of the negatives. The only thing that came out of it was that integrity became really attractive to me since 95% of people do not have it.

If a girl wants to be a person with the morales of a man then so be it.

Peaks&Valleys · Feb 17, 2015

Desdinova said:
If you look at Pook's final posts here and read his blog (Pook's Mill), you'll see that Pook very much became anti-feminism. He actually appeared to be spinning his wheels on this subject, which was very unfortunate.

You can bytch about it, join the movement, or figure out how to make the best of the current state of society. The choice is yours.

I really don't think being anti-feminist has anything to do with what Exception is speaking about. Yes, feminism is a big problem, however, while there are areas in your life that will be effected my feminism, including some women's behavior, there are many/most/all aspects of a woman's nature that have nothing to do with feminism, that feminism cannot penetrate.

Women are still women. Feminists believe they can change a Man's biology, they believe men are attracted to fit healthy women only because of the media, for example. This is the idiocy of feminism. Being in "corner 1" is realizing that a human's inherent nature will trump any ideology they align themselves with. You can blame feminism for a lot of things, however, a woman's attraction should never be one of them.

EDIT:
Furthermore:
-Whether or not she feels it's okay to cheat on you, can be effected by feminism.
-Whether or not she WANTS to cheat on you, has NOTHING to do with feminism.

See the difference? Internalize it.

guru1000 · Feb 17, 2015

Danger said:
One of those milestones is recognizing bad investments when you see them. Recognizing where problems lay is an important part of growth, because it helps you to determine where to invest your most precious asset. Time.

To put it more succinctly, once you have mastered the red-pill and game, you encounter a new problem.

How to filter out the women who are losers, and keep those who are worthy of your investment.

When you reach this level of game, your eyes will open and you will see why the vast majority of women today fall into the "next" category. Until then, you still have a lot of learning and growth to accomplish.

This.

JohnChops · Feb 17, 2015

stevo said:
Haha thanks for making this thread, I was thinking about making one similar. Where advise givers would state their core stance so when they give advise, the reader can reference that thread to understand the adviser's mindset to either accept or take the advise with a grain of salt. Heck that alone would save a lot of back and forth argument.

There are really two different crowds on here and I can imagine a poster even further confused after receiving POV from both crowds.

Women are just that, women. They are human beings. Human beings are unpredictable. Human beings have the ability to do whatever they want whenever they want.

I cheer for self improvement.

Those with relationships:
You see a woman that wants to stay with you, would.

It's up to you to make it a painful experience for her to stay with you or an enjoyable experience to be with you.

I preach for men to focus on themselves, if you build yourself up, she'd come.

You should not have to do anything extra for her attention, you should simply BE.

Those with women trouble:
Stop picking apart every single thing she does or have the ability to do, you'd lose your mind.

Stop forgetting there's an abundance of awesome women

She's just like every other person, she's not special yet until she's proved herself over some years.

It'd either work or it wont.

I'll share my personal philosophy:

I hold my hand out, palm open. The flower can stay on my hand by its choosing or it could go with the wind, by its choosing. I wont close my hand to secure the flower because that'd end up shattering the flower or suffocating the flower.

And that is how I treat all my plates. I'm making a conscious decision to be with you (leaving my palm open), she's making a conscious decision to be with me (staying on my palm).

Not sure if my mentality fall under pro-masculine or anti-feminism but there you have it.

Yess zekko! 100% agree bud! People here are so cynical it is crazy. It is hard not to get sucked in sometimes but the radical posters here just simply need to go and actually speak to women! Why both hating women? They are just like us, unpredictable but more emotional.

Maybe if people stopped reading into all the trash on here and spoke to an actual female (IRL

) they would realize half of the hatred for women on here is spread by people who got burned by one girl and can't get over it. They aren't all bad, manyactually arent *GASP*

LiveFreeX · Feb 18, 2015

Dunno where the recent "True forced loneliness" movement is coming from.

Pook went crazy ages ago and abandoned 'the scene', so did some of his more 'obsessed' followers, he's not exactly the best example to use.. nor is Roosh or his zealots. There is an MGTOW guy named spock and that guy is just out to lunch... also Winston Wu (caught beating off in front of his kid Angelo).. Mystery and Style? Where are they now? A lot of people follow these dinks as if they were jesus himself. A large percentage of gurus and lairs exist solely to sell books or preach debauchery so they can feel better about what they do.

The fact is we weren't meant to be SOLO/Independent or there would have only been one gender created. Men and women are meant to be together, create families together, raise children, its as simple as that. All this self improvement bs, feminism, game is just a creation of a sick society trying to cope. You don't see many of the other countries outside the 1st world dealing with alpha/beta 'isms'... guys that drive taxis and pick up garbage seem to meet and marry women just fine without having to constantly monitor every single action or worry about sh1t tests...

D1ck fits into pvssy, baby comes out... both man and woman love baby and want to see him/her grow up. Why complicate matters?

YAboi · Feb 18, 2015

Stop focusing on the negative people. See the world for what it truly is... A smorgasbord of colors

TheException · Feb 18, 2015

Desdinova said:
If you look at Pook's final posts here and read his blog (Pook's Mill), you'll see that Pook very much became anti-feminism. He actually appeared to be spinning his wheels on this subject, which was very unfortunate.

LiveFreeX said:
Pook went crazy ages ago and abandoned 'the scene', so did some of his more 'obsessed' followers, he's not exactly the best example to use.. nor is Roosh or his zealots.

What one does later DOESN'T invalidate earlier work. Same as how an aging sports star in their twilight years does not cancel out the greatness achieved earlier in their career i.e. Franco Harris on the Seahawks or Joe Montana on the Chiefs.

I am referring to his specific work "Be A Man" which is in the DJ Bible...

Danger said:
Exception,

Creating this false dichotomy only shows you have not fully swallowed the red-pill yet.

Embarking on the path of continuous improvement with women has many milestones.

One of those milestones is recognizing bad investments when you see them. Recognizing where problems lay is an important part of growth, because it helps you to determine where to invest your most precious asset. Time.

To put it more succinctly, once you have mastered the red-pill and game, you encounter a new problem.

How to filter out the women who are losers, and keep those who are worthy of your investment.

When you reach this level of game, your eyes will open and you will see why the vast majority of women today fall into the "next" category. Until then, you still have a lot of learning and growth to accomplish.

...................

Not even on topic. Go slink back to Corner 2.

TheException · Feb 18, 2015

Frayzer said:
Corner 2 never really affected me in a noticeable way because I know that both genders are messed up in their own way instead of one gender holding all of the negatives.

Exactly right. Bolded my favorite part.

Both sides need to be held accountable. Sosuave often just wants to make excuses and blame women. One must take a long hard deep look at themself sometimes in order to improve. It's clear which men do not attract high quality females (because they are not high quality themselves).

Peaks&Valleys said:
Being in "corner 1" is realizing that a human's inherent nature will trump any ideology they align themselves with. You can blame feminism for a lot of things, however, a woman's attraction should never be one of them.

Bolded my favorite.

Men who DO NOT understand a woman and her nature.....have to resort to calling her names and claiming all women are "manipulative" or "s1uts".

JohnChops said:
Maybe if people stopped reading into all the trash on here and spoke to an actual female (IRL ) they would realize half of the hatred for women on here is spread by people who got burned by one girl and can't get over it. They aren't all bad, manyactually arent *GASP*

It's funny....sosuave is sometimes hard to recognize as a site to help men GET WOMEN.

Why anyone would ever listen to a man who advocates making barriers for fears and insecurities is beyond me. That is their loss. "Band-Aids" created to prevent being burned often leads to more burns.

TheException · Feb 19, 2015

Danger said:
Let us be completely honest here, given your latest advice that men should not be concerned when their gf is sleeping in bed with a man who wants to fvk them, we know exactly where you stand regarding sluts (Not to mention your terrible advice to the man who's gf was dating other men....you told him to trust her, and she was fvking him all along).

Add to this your limited ability to get laid by your gf (Case #1 and #2) and it becomes crystal clear how limited your game is, and how badly you need help.

Thanks for the free advertising.

I actually went back and re-read all of those threads you linked. All great stuff and lots of positive feedback and good discussions. Now I'm even more confused on why you keep linking them under the perception that they are a negative thing :crackup:

TheException · Feb 19, 2015

Danger said:
There are an unbelievable number of posters besides me who are shocked that you are ok with your gf sleeping in bed with other men that want to fvk her, as long as you trust her.

Corner 2 is actually very small when compared to the entirety of sosuave. You guys just want to debate endlessly in every thread about off topic issues. You group of "an unbelievable number" is more like "less than 10."

Also.....quote me where I said my girlfriend has slept in some other guys bed who wanted to fvck her. This is fabricated so good luck looking for it.

TheException · Feb 19, 2015

Social, you have made quite an intelligent post. Im going to address some points in it. All the best stuff is in the beginning...

Social_Leper said:
Your perception of your own experiences is going to differ drastically from how other people see it. I am a firm advocate in considering the life of the person posting the advice and acting accordingly. Danger posting those links simply allows other posters to make a more informed decision before reading your posts.

I agree with literally everything, especially the bold.

Danger can post links all he wants, I encourage it. I think it strengthens my viewpoints. I just try to advise him to do it in a way that makes him look credible. He obviously hasnt listened because he still looks like a 5 year old who just had his girlfriend stolen by me.

Just put the information out there and let people read it.

For example I've never been turned down for sex by my girlfriend. Therefore when you make a post like this:

Originally Posted by TheException
Well first off, no matter the "reasons" or "excuses" women are not like men when it comes to sex. They dont "instantly" get turned on like we do. They have a billion reasons but at the end of the day....my girlfriend just wanted to go to bed. The WORST thing a guy could do is complain or get angry at his girlfriend and start yelling or questioning her about sex. Its needy and pathetic. Its not our job to beg for sex. Our women should be wanting to jump our bones at any given moment.

A few things happen:

I can't relate to the advice because it's never happened to me

Then I read statements like "our women should be wanting to jump our bones at any given moment" and then question why your gf is not in fact "jumping your bone" since you openly state women devoted to their men should have no problem doing this.

I conclude that you know the way things should be but lack the ability or the confidence to apply game thoroughly.

I say to myself. Maybe it's just a blip.

1. Well....good for you. I'd have to ask have you ever tried to bang her when she has the flu? When she is upset? When she is on her period? I find "a 100%"
sex rate interesting.

I think there is a very clear distinction between a woman "making excuses" i.e. "Im too tired" and ACTUALLY being "too tired" or "sick". There are times when she is in the mood and I AM NOT....does that mean the relationship is headed to the gallows? You also forgo reading the rest of that post. You cannot just "selectively read" certain parts because it fits the agenda of "trying to prove Exception is bad with women" or whatever.....

Two days later....I'm literally raped AND she apologized for being "too physically tired", something that I do not even need/want an apology for.

Then I read another one of your "expert" posts.

Originally Posted by TheException
You're a man with a girlfriend/wife. Very happy in the relationship. Could use a bit more sex.....but who couldn't right?

Originally Posted by TheException
Now in the past this woman will display sexual advances such as this, but rarely if ever actually sleeps with you. In essence it is a tease. Its purpose is to smooth over the tension. So.....what is a man to do?

And then have to rinse and repeat the above until I simply avoid taking questionable advice from a poster who doesn't really seem to know what they're doing.

You do realize these were from a thread that was fabricated in order to demonstrate a common scenario for the "blue pill" man right?

It was clearly written from the mindset of someone not savvy in game...on purpose. Again....go re-read the thread in its entirety, not just what Danger quotes lol. Another "selective reading" error....and I can't blame you for your opinion had you really thought this was a true thread. I would share the same belief, in fact.

Your reality is constrained by your lack of game. How do I know this? Because you seem to think your gf's behaviour is the norm.

From a neutral perspective your posts come across as someone who has made a sub optimal decision and then tries to justify it by spinning it as "advice". It's just ego preservation. Anyone with an ounce of game would tell you you fvcked up in both scenarios but you have this image of yourself as a God of game so it's not a mistake....no instead it's just a new type of game and if you don't agree with me then you're CWAF or some other nonsense acronym.

The two posts linked above are a perfect example of this. And I think it becomes a problem when people start taking such advice as credible when it is intellectually dishonest from the offset.

And this is just corner 2 rhetoric using selective reading examples as I have pointed out above. I really do hope you go re-read those threads and re-evaluate your position. This is actually a conversation worth having....not just the same old drivel and rhetoric.

Good post Social Leper

Peaks&Valleys · Feb 19, 2015

Danger said:
You told this man he should be ok with his gf sleeping in bed with a man who wants to fvk her

Ummm, no, he didn't say that....at all.

Danger said:
You told a guy that if he trusted his gf that it was ok for her to have slept in bed with another man who wanted to fvk her.

No, your reading comprehension is horrible.

Peaks&Valleys · Feb 19, 2015

Danger said:
He told him that if he trusted his gf, that he should just leave it alone, the fact that she slept in bed with a man who was trying to fvk her. that is implicit approval of her actions.

But she didn't sleep in a bed with another man, the guy tried but she said she kicked him out.

I don't see how you are coming to that conclusion, unless I am missing something.

Peaks&Valleys · Feb 19, 2015

My GF stated that she wanted to sleep on bed (it was a big house with multiple beds) when she got to bed the Guy B suddenly jumped on to the bed with her and started groping her. She shoved him away and sayed that she is in a relationship and does not cheat, she was on the edge of falling asleep. The guy persisted bit girlfriend refused and told that she will go on the couch if he does not stop.

I don't know but, to me, it sounds like she didn't let him sleep on the bed. If he did sleep on the bed, then I guess I was wrong.

Either way, to me, the story does sound 'fishy'.

Danger said:
And you didn't answer my two questions....
First, what would you do if your gf did this?

If a random dude slept in the same bed as her? I wouldn't be exclusive with a woman who would think that was okay. So, if she did, and told me about it, I'd talk to her about it. The truth, one way or another, would come out. Then I'd go from there.

Secondly, if you were "Guy B", would you not see her removal of those obstacles as an invitation for him to make a move on her?

Just by what was said in the OP, no. But I get your 'plausible deniability', but again, no. Even if she was, in this day and age, no way in hell would I proceed. Plus, I'm not one to 'seduce' or 'convince' taken women to sleep with me.

TheException · Feb 20, 2015

Danger said:
You told this man he should be ok with his gf sleeping in bed with a man who wants to fvk her, then of course that means you would be ok with your gf doing the same right?

Peaks&Valleys said:
Ummm, no, he didn't say that....at all.

Peaks&Valleys said:
No, your reading comprehension is horrible.

Peaks sums it up. You are making an assumption to fit your agenda. You are the master of contextomy on this forum. Ill go nice and slow for you....try to keep up.

I didnt tell the OP that "its ok". OP went on and on about how is "girlfriend is so trusting" and "rarely lies". I challenged his frame on this. It was meant to provoke thinking(something you cant do). Not everything is literal....why don't you understand this?

Now, the reality?

The reality is as I stated.....She removed obstacles for Guy B so that he could fvk her, and any man with a semblance of game could see that was the case.

LOL ya im sure you banged "so many taken women".....how could you not with all this "analysis of obstacles".

If you think this girl "removed obstacles" you must be just as creepy as "Guy B". Guy B was a sleezeball and actively pursued a woman who was not interested to the point of having been slapped. Period. You just refuse to ever blame men. Its always the women who are the issue right?

A creep that was drunk and horny? Nah bro....he was just following the removal of obstacles lol.

First, what would you do if your gf did this?
Secondly, if you were "Guy B", would you not see her removal of those obstacles as an invitation for him to make a move on her?

Im going to answer these too.

1. Either I believe her and drop it or I dump her. Unlike you....I can not draw conclusions based upon 5 paragraphs of a situation. Its never that simple which is why I leave the decision up to the OPs instead of shouting "DUMP HER" like every other drone.

2. There was no removal of obstacles. She was not interested. Ive slept with taken women, and it was always as clean as any other ONS. I remember vividly even talking plainly about one girl's boyfriend once....she was not attracted to him but dated him because she hated being alone. Taken women looking to cheat make it easy...they get wasted, they makeout with you, they dance with you, then sleep with you. NOT SLAP YOU. lol

Are You "Pro-Masculine" or "Anti-Feminine" ?

Master Don Juan

Master Don Juan

Master Don Juan

Master Don Juan

Master Don Juan

Master Don Juan

Master Don Juan

Master Don Juan

Master Don Juan

Banned

Master Don Juan

Master Don Juan

Master Don Juan

Master Don Juan

Master Don Juan

Master Don Juan

Master Don Juan

Master Don Juan

Master Don Juan

Master Don Juan