Online Dating is Beta Game

BeDJ · Feb 5, 2013

I've been on POF and OKC over the past few months to supplement my dating. With the influx of threads on looks and guys pining over AFC problems, it gave me a chance to reflect on it. I have a good number of ONS from online dating, so this is not coming from a bitter point of view. I am neither encouraging or discouraging its use. Rather, the caveat of its effect on game.

It's almost hypocrisy how SS defends the notion that looks aren't everything, yet engage in a playing field where they are. Looking good on dating sites will land you numbers and dates, words are just used as an intermediary to make it happen. Exhibit A* Where does that leave the sub-par looking guy? He can be alpha as fυck, but left fighting over table scraps.

That's not saying game isn't required when meeting up with these woman. Which brings me to the pinnacle - Fear of Rejection. I applaud those guys on here that go out and cold approach, they will be well ahead of the curve. Nothing bruises, yet strengthens your self esteem than rejection. Fear is your greatest protection, at the same time, it is your greatest weakness. You bypass the reality bіtch slap of rejection when you date online. You are preventing yourself from achieving genuine inner confidence. You are hindering the growth of the man you want to become.

*Not a picture of some random male model

BeDJ · Feb 5, 2013

Should have used a more eye catching title.

corrector · Feb 5, 2013

BeginningDJ said:
You bypass the reality bіtch slap of rejection when you date online. You are preventing yourself from achieving genuine inner confidence.

How do you figure that? When you send messages out, and most of the time women respond with one liners or ignore your messages completely, then you have a "rejection" experience there. You have to have inner confidence not to throw in the towel and quit online dating. By your own description it is brutal for the average guy.

Yeah, cold approaches are probably easier than online dating because even if you get rejected you still have a social interaction with a hot girl. Online dating doesn't have that if you are getting ignored/rejected.

Trump · Feb 5, 2013

corrector said:
How do you figure that? When you send messages out, and most of the time women respond with one liners or ignore your messages completely, then you have a "rejection" experience there. You have to have inner confidence not to throw in the towel and quit online dating. By your own description it is brutal for the average guy.

If a woman doesn't respond thru online dating, it doesn't mean rejection, she could claim she: didn't get the message, couldn't log on to the website, didn't have wireless connection, forgot her password, computer broke down, forgot to take her profile off, etc, etc, etc.

If a woman doesn't respond during face to face contact asking her out, she can't claim anything, so she has to reject you to your face, much more difficult to face.

Online is brutal for the average guy.

corrector · Feb 5, 2013

Trump said:
If a woman doesn't respond thru online dating, it doesn't mean rejection, she could claim she: didn't get the message, couldn't log on to the website, didn't have wireless connection, forgot her password, computer broke down, forgot to take her profile off, etc, etc, etc.

I guess it all depends on the receiver's interpretation of it. Now-a-days you have websites that would indicate if your message was read or not, if your profile was viewed and by whom, when she last logged on, so there is really not much of an excuse to that. You can easily formulate a "rejection" with that information if you do not get a reply or a one-liner reply.

Tump said:
If a woman doesn't respond during face to face contact asking her out, she can't claim anything, so she has to reject you to your face, much more difficult to face.

Are you kidding me?

She can claim that she has a boyfriend, or that she's busy with school/studies and really has no time to fit anything like this into her schedule. Best of yet, she can have a nice conversation with you, pretend everything is going great and even say "yes" to you. (i.e. no rejection) But she may flake by not picking up her phone or not showing up for the date. Again, you get lots of threads on here of people who collect numbers. I'm sure they didn't get "rejected" on their cold approach. So, I'd say it's easier to try to make a face to face connection and collect a number even if it flakes out in the end then it is playing any online game.

On online dating everyone is presumed to be single and looking. If you can't get a connection from that then it's brutal.

Face to face you can always dismiss it on the girl's mood, chemistry, if what you said didn't make sense, etc... But if you don't get a reply online after spamming emails out, then that would more likely reinforce the perception that nobody likes you as a man. Or that women are just superficial since they are ignoring your well thought out messages but are throwing themselves at other profiles because the picture looks better.

This can lead anyone to start getting desperate and go after UGs and uglies or other undesirables just to have a connection with someone that could go somewhere because your ego just got shot. Face to face doesn't seem as brutal on the rejection side.

Trump said:
Online is brutal for the average guy.

So why are we arguing that face to face is easier when it comes to rejection?

nismo-4 · Feb 5, 2013

A man's online dating profile is only as strong as his worst picture.

BeDJ · Feb 6, 2013

Trump said:
If a woman doesn't respond during face to face contact asking her out, she can't claim anything, so she has to reject you to your face, much more difficult to face.

This is the intent of my initial post. Developing inner confidence comes from overcoming rejection to the face and building a stronger character. Real life rejection is far harsher than the comfort of experiencing it behind a monitor. The two exposures of rejection are not comparable.

corrector said:
Now-a-days you have websites that would indicate if your message was read or not, if your profile was viewed and by whom, when she last logged on, so there is really not much of an excuse to that. You can easily formulate a "rejection" with that information if you do not get a reply or a one-liner reply.

...So, I'd say it's easier to try to make a face to face connection and collect a number even if it flakes out in the end then it is playing any online game.

... But if you don't get a reply online after spamming emails out, then that would more likely reinforce the perception that nobody likes you as a man. Or that women are just superficial since they are ignoring your well thought out messages but are throwing themselves at other profiles because the picture looks better.

This is the only non-AFC part of your delusional post. I agree.

bradd80 said:
BDJ, I don't see the hypocrisy, if anything SS encourages its members to look as good as they possibly can. That's why you see so many articles and threads here about how to look good, and what colognes to wear, and we even have an entire forum here dedicated to working out and diet.

I should be more clear at the risk of welcoming trolls. By looks, I meant your face.

bradd80 said:
I think what SS emphasizes is that it's not ALL about looks, because a lot of guys who don't look very good end up getting a lot of hot pvssy.

True. However, in online dating, the dominating factor for female attraction is looks (face.) This hinders the development of inner confidence and game if you can succeed with women mostly by your looks.

Zarky · Feb 6, 2013

corrector said:
they are ignoring your well thought out messages

Only a guy who's been doing online dating less than a few months would bother writing "well thought-out messages" to some random broad who may not even be real.

Any guy who is getting laid regularly or even semi-regularly from online dating knows to throw out as many meaningless messages as possible to as many women as possible, hopefully with a little canned "hook" somewhere in them.

Fatal Jay · Feb 6, 2013

I agree, if it is not face to face gaming

its beta dating, its nothing more whole then meeting a chick in person

BeDJ · Feb 6, 2013

bradd80 said:
Even the face can be made to look better: for example, you can take better care of your skin if you have acne, or you can get contacts instead of fat rimmed eyeglasses. Cut your hair a certain way that makes your face look better. Look too young? Get a well trimmed goatee. Face looks a little too pudgy or fat? Start eating right and losing weight, even your face will look slimmer.

I agree that every man should improve their appearance, body, style, hygiene, etc. I should point out that there are physical attributes that men can not improve on that prevents them from having online dating success. However, that is not the purpose of this thread.

bradd80 said:
Online game isn't much different from cold approach: either way, looks may provide a lot of the initial attraction, but as much as looks can get you into a room they can't necessarily keep you there. Anyone can get a phone number, even an AFC, whether it's online or the cold approach. But what differentiates the Don Juan from the chump is how well you do after that initial meeting. How well do you build comfort and attraction? Does she like you more, or is she disappointed that the second or third meeting wasn't quite as good as that first time?

This is the discussion I intended to have - the initial approach. Comparing cold approaching to online messaging is nonsensical.

Saying Hi in person takes plenty more confidence than typing up a clever message and clicking the Send button. Any man can do that behind the convenience of their computer screen. Convenience bares minimal fear and risk. Convenience is the shelter that hold men back from being great. Convenience is the Mark of Beta.

BMX · Feb 7, 2013

Fatal Jay said:
I agree, if it is not face to face gaming

its beta dating, its nothing more whole then meeting a chick in person

I agree. I can not bring myself to do any online dating. I can get the same results in person face-to-face. Not to mention better results too from sarging. :cheer:

the_stig · Feb 7, 2013

Nothing has taught me "I don't give a fvck" like online dating. What a blessing in disguise. With all the BS I've endured on POF over the years, I'm now 99.9% desensitized to female mind games, flaking, or whatever else they want to throw at me; no reaction, couldn't careless, onto the next.

Zarky · Feb 7, 2013

Yup, there's no substitute for experience, which requires simply a great deal of exposure to women. Online dating will give you that. Granted there are no 8s, 9s or 10s, and the 7s are rare, but if you need experience, online's the place to go.

incognito42 · Feb 7, 2013

BeginningDJ said:
I've been on POF and OKC over the past few months to supplement my dating. With the influx of threads on looks and guys pining over AFC problems, it gave me a chance to reflect on it. I have a good number of ONS from online dating, so this is not coming from a bitter point of view. I am neither encouraging or discouraging its use. Rather, the caveat of its effect on game.

It's almost hypocrisy how SS defends the notion that looks aren't everything, yet engage in a playing field where they are. Looking good on dating sites will land you numbers and dates, words are just used as an intermediary to make it happen. Exhibit A* Where does that leave the sub-par looking guy? He can be alpha as fυck, but left fighting over table scraps.

That's not saying game isn't required when meeting up with these woman. Which brings me to the pinnacle - Fear of Rejection. I applaud those guys on here that go out and cold approach, they will be well ahead of the curve. Nothing bruises, yet strengthens your self esteem than rejection. Fear is your greatest protection, at the same time, it is your greatest weakness. You bypass the reality bіtch slap of rejection when you date online. You are preventing yourself from achieving genuine inner confidence. You are hindering the growth of the man you want to become.

*Not a picture of some random male model

All online dating did wa grow my inner confidence. I'm the most confident man I've Ever been, by far, solely because of pof

You say that online dating eliminates fear of rejection, while most get on here and cry that it's a bigger confidence killer than real life rejection. I respect your perspective, but all I can say is I haven't been on pof in 6 months and my confidence is as high as ever and I'm the best person I've eve een because of this. Pof was a stepping stone for me. It allowed me to crawl before I walked. It allowed me^^^^ to practice Nd implement things from this site that I was always too scared to in real life. Now I have no more anxiety and am the person I want to be

corrector · Feb 7, 2013

incognito42 said:
All online dating did wa grow my inner confidence. I'm the most confident man I've Ever been, by far, solely because of pof

It's because you have great profile pics and it's because of your looks. It's probably great for people who have the type of body/looks that woman want (i.e. white, black, over six feet tall, muscular, etc....).

Naughty Ninja put up threads about it.

I'd be curious to see how you and bradd80 look on the pictures and how it compares to most other people on here who are "crying that this is a bigger confidence killer than real life rejection".

I have a sense you are either shooting fish in a barrel if your looks are up to par with what most women want, or it's a confidence killer if you are an average looking dude or just don't have an attractive pic. It goes back to a looks vs game argument.

channingtatum · Feb 7, 2013

Online dating is almost too easy. But yes, if you're not good looking, it is a hard road to get a date with a HB7+. Your profile CANNOT SUCK. The more work I put into my profile, the more replies and dates I received. David DeAngelo had some material somewhere on the net about writing a good profile which I used, and it helped immensely. Also, I've noticed the older I get, the more attention I get. Most of the girls on Match are 28-33 and want a mid-30's year old man, I'm 27. Sometimes a girl I don't think is very cute will completely ignore a message I send, while a 10 will write me back. For example, HB10 (Maxim model i found out), got so annoyed that I looked at her profile and didn't write her that she PURSUED ME on match. I thought she was a fake profile. Shows you how entitled a hot chick thinks she is, even in the online world. She was one odd girl.

corrector · Feb 7, 2013

Espi said:
The truth, though, is that most guys have to work hard to get an online date--there's a lot of hard work that goes into meeting a woman face-to-face. And, contrary to most peoples' opinions on this site, a lot of rejection is involved. I'm 6'2 230 lbs., muscular, and I can tell you that for every 100 women that I email, most of the time, I'm lucky if 10 respond, and luckier still if 5 of those 10 meet me for drinks. Out of those 5, I might lay 1. [/B]

This got my attention. You are 6'2, muscular and your response rate is less than 5%, and you satisfaction number is 1% based on effort. I've got better results than that (i.e. better than 1% satisfaction rate), and I'm not that. Is your face considered handsome? Maybe it is that?

But a 1% satisfaction rate doesn't sound like you are a chooser. It sounds like you have to settle with who that 1% is. That is what beta game is about. Usually that 1% you end up with is because you just got your ego-crushed by the other 99% and you are grasping at straws now for validation. But then again, that 1% could be your soul-mate or destiny that was missing until then. Maybe both.

corrector · Feb 7, 2013

Espi said:
So you're saying that I should fare better than 1%. Fair enough.

If you approached 100 physically attractive women, how many of them do you think are going to end up in your bed?

My goal is not to fornicate. I have what I said is "satisfaction". That means you are successful at what you want that makes you happy with a woman. In my case it may mean marriage, or finding someone to take out on an outing that most girls may not be very excited about because they see it as childish, etc....

As this is really personal. I'm not advocating offline or online. I said my numbers were better than 1% online.

My last example was on a Christian site, I sent out well over 50 emails, and got one girl I had a 9 month relationship with, went out to "kiddie" places (i.e. water-park in amusement parks, zoo, safari, farm section of the ex, riding in the countryside, etc...), had make-out sessions and we were planning to get married. It didn't work out because her past was still alive (ex-husband), but I knew she was divorced going in.

I didn't email her first, she emailed me first. But even if it's not a direct result of the email, it does show that God balanced things out that I got something that I was satisfied with so much that I don't need to go online to look for another woman for another year from all the wonderful experiences and memories I had with this girl and I can say I'm just happy enough with this.

But finding the right woman to marry is a different story. Obviously 50 emails was not enough for that, going online sending one week blitz on a Christian site, between the end of February to March 3rd, 2012, was not enough for that. That is all I've done as of late and haven't been online since March 2012 as I thought this girl was the one. She wasn't, but I'm still not going back online since I'm good and want to focus on other things in life rather than "experience".

incognito42 · Feb 7, 2013

corrector said:
It's because you have great profile pics and it's because of your looks. It's probably great for people who have the type of body/looks that woman want (i.e. white, black, over six feet tall, muscular, etc....).

Naughty Ninja put up threads about it.

I'd be curious to see how you and bradd80 look on the pictures and how it compares to most other people on here who are "crying that this is a bigger confidence killer than real life rejection".

I have a sense you are either shooting fish in a barrel if your looks are up to par with what most women want, or it's a confidence killer if you are an average looking dude or just don't have an attractive pic. It goes back to a looks vs game argument.

Not really. Im 5'10, I have orange hair and pale skin. I wasn't getting much azz be4 pof. I worked out and ate a clean diet for 3 months, and I was in good shape. I wasn't a body builder my whole life, I wasn't benifiting from years of weight training. 3 months of dedication, that's it

The reason pof SHOULD NOT ever be a confidence killer is because pof chicks are trash and pof is only good for sex and u should put ur ego aside and not let anything they say or dont say bother u. If u go there with the Rigjt perspective you'll only grow from using pof. In my head, pof was all about expeimenting and I didn't care what results I got. Most don't go into itbwith that mindset

If u learn to deal with pof women (flaking, and ignoring you, and being rejected, and general pof trashy cvntiness) then real life interactions become a breeze

You learn to be zen like in the face of trashy wh0res online, and the "normal" girls in real life become easy to deal with

bukowski_merit · Feb 7, 2013

Online all day!

It comes down to what's easiest for me.

Fvck all this other noise....

Online Dating is Beta Game

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