should i cancel in advance..? i think she'll flake

ok i called this girl from this thread below just now:

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=199746

i tried an instant date this evening given she says she 'doesnt make plans and is flexible blah blah' i.e. will flake last minute if a better offer comes along.

if you recall i mentioned i was going to take her to play tennis at my tennis club as she's a big fan.. i have tomorrow and monday off work and she sounded really excited but said she's really busy this week and she'd love to.. (some friends have flown in today who she is meeting tonight for drinks..)

i told her that wasn't why i was calling her and that i was gona take her locally to a famous chinese restaurant and that i wasn't going to take no for an answer... (it's famous but it's only gona cost me $20 max so i dont have an issue taking her to dinner tho i know u shouldnt till you've banged) first she laughed and seemed for it.. then said she has to meet her friends at 9.30 for drinks but they are confirming the exact time later and she was getting her nails done when i spoke to her and going home after to get her hair done for tonight (basically there's high probability i'll be out of the picture soon if she meets another guy she likes)

i told her i'd pick her up at 7.. but then she's all like 'let me confirm and i'll let u know by the latest 6' i made the mistake of negotiating saying like 'well if you're meeting them at 9.30pm then we can meet at 7 and i'll get u back by 8.30pm at the latest (weak weak move i know.. im like begging.. cringe) she then suggested we meet nearby her place (cos she doesn't want to be rushed but i think she just wants a free meal) i then went on further to sell her the famous restaurant as it has some interesting story but she didn't want to listen and just cut me off saying 'i'll confirm at 6 tonight.' (in an semi-annoyed tone)

doesn't look promising.

should i just bail and cancel in advance? if she doesn't counter off with another day which she won't i have to assume low IL but it might be worth meeting her once more to see if i can get the attraction back up. it's not gona cost me anything so might as well.

all i know is she will def meet up with me again to play tennis.. but that's like the free meal situation with dinner i.e. using me to get what she wants.

im almost compensating for being too cheap the first time round and i dont want to fall into the trap of supplicating which i think i am.

Red alert! Red alert! Danger Will Robinson!

You are now starting to enter creepy stalker status with this girl. Just leave her alone.

You had your shot the last date, but now it seems as if you are trying to over compensate for your short falls with her. I'm actually surprised she still even talks to you to be quite honest. You seem really pushy about where you want to eat all of the time.

Relax. Go with the flow. You are trying to hard, and she knows it.

I don't think you have to worry about canceling first, because I doubt very seriously if you will hear from her. IF you do, its just going to be her saying she can't make it. But if you cancel before her? You are going to look even more psycho then you do already after practically begging/pleading with her to go out. Just let it be man.

cordoncordon said:

Red alert! Red alert! Danger Will Robinson!

You are now starting to enter creepy stalker status with this girl. Just leave her alone.

You had your shot the last date, but now it seems as if you are trying to over compensate for your short falls with her. I'm actually surprised she still even talks to you to be quite honest. You seem really pushy about where you want to eat all of the time.

Relax. Go with the flow. You are trying to hard, and she knows it.

I don't think you have to worry about canceling first, because I doubt very seriously if you will hear from her. IF you do, its just going to be her saying she can't make it. But if you cancel before her? You are going to look even more psycho then you do already after practically begging/pleading with her to go out. Just let it be man.

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why would me cancelling in advance look psycho?

im the man i have to dictate where i want to go for dinner, not her. im going there cos i want to go there and it just so happens she loves chinese food so it's a no brainer for me. yes maybe im overselling it but still if i came across as begging but said i wasn't taking no for an answer.

she will meet me again that's for def, she wants to play tennis and the only indoor courts in the area is my club so our tennis date will happen at some point.

i just thought cancelling will at least show that i wont wait for a confirmation and i'll make other plans.

i was gona cancel by texting:

hey HB, i cant make it tonight i've already made other plans now. im off tomorow and mon so will be at my tennis club. enjoy your night. x

the only issue is she might think im calling round different girls asking them to dinner last minute and finally one has accepted.. it might make me look bad?

Let her flake and when she does you can respond with "good job I made backup plans but now you have to make it up to me ". If she is interested then a date will come off the back off that where she has to make it up, also don't tell her what your backup plans are, even if she asks remain a mystery.

big weezy said:

why would me cancelling in advance look psycho?

im the man i have to dictate where i want to go for dinner, not her. im going there cos i want to go there and it just so happens she loves chinese food so it's a no brainer for me. yes maybe im overselling it but still if i came across as begging but said i wasn't taking no for an answer.

she will meet me again that's for def, she wants to play tennis and the only indoor courts in the area is my club so our tennis date will happen at some point.

i just thought cancelling will at least show that i wont wait for a confirmation and i'll make other plans.

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You are taking this "I'm the alpha man, me warrior you women" thing way to far.

I have said this before, but I see it all the time on this site. Newcomer AFC's, who have been the nice guy all their lives with women and therefore pushed around, come to this site, overcompensate, and go the exact opposite extreme and think that they need to be super macho and demanding.

The best course of action, and you will find this someday Weezy I am sure, is to be be a carefree, fun, laid back but assertive kind of guy. Women respect that much more than the two extremes I discussed.

big weezy said:

i was gona cancel by texting:

hey HB, i cant make it tonight i've already made other plans now. im off tomorow and mon so will be at my tennis club. enjoy your night. x

the only issue is she might think im calling round different girls asking them to dinner last minute and finally one has accepted.. it might make me look bad?

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Don't do this. She will know you are just A) making up the other plans thing, and B) trying to make her jealous with the tennis thing.

You are coming across as a weird dude to her right now.

Don't be a weird dude.

ok i sent:

hey HB i cant make it tonight i've already made other plans now. enjoy your night. x

her: 'ok by'

haha.. that doesn't look promising at all.. maybe she thought i was just calling round different girls and one took the bait so now im going with her instead.. i know making it seem like you have other options is good but the way i did it i think it's backfired.. 'ok by' to me seems like dont contact me again.

big weezy said:

ok i sent:

hey HB i cant make it tonight i've already made other plans now. enjoy your night. x

her: 'ok by'

haha.. that doesn't look promising at all.. maybe she thought i was just calling round different girls and one took the bait so now im going with her instead.. i know making it seem like you have other options is good but the way i did it i think it's backfired.. 'ok by' to me seems like dont contact me again.

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You just did the exact opposite of what I said to do. I see this a lot too on here from newbies. Guys that keep doing whatever they want to do, regardless of the advice given on here. Same with the advice given to you on the other thread about her being DTF and you not thinking that.

Now she thinks you are even stranger, and she just got her shot in to say she never wants to see you again. Trust me that is what "bye" means. As in bye bye, please do not contact me again.

Hopefully this at least teaches you something.

It's guys like you that make it so much easier for guys like us. When women meet someone that doesn't do the types of things you do? They practically pull down their panties in 5 seconds they are so happy/relieved/horny.

cordoncordon said:

You just did the exact opposite of what I said to do. I see this a lot too on here from newbies. Guys that keep doing whatever they want to do, regardless of the advice given on here. Same with the advice given to you on the other thread about her being DTF and you not thinking that.

Now she thinks you are even stranger, and she just got her shot in to say she never wants to see you again. Trust me that is what "bye" means. As in bye bye, please do not contact me again.

Hopefully this at least teaches you something.

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that's cos i didn't see your post before i sent it. it was too late i already sent it when i saw your post.

it doesn't matter really her IL was too low, im not waiting around for a girl to confirm plans with me to then be rushed at dinner for her to go off elsewhere and get drunk n bang someone else.

her IL was too low. end of. worth a punt but that's it.


look even if i just left it, and she just texted to say she cant make it.. she prob wouldnt have offered a counter time or day.. so why is what i've done going to change the outcome of what was inevitable?

at least i got to say i couldnt make it. yeah maybe she's pissed or thinks im just calling round diff girls saying the same thing but at the end of the day her interest was low so i had no place trying again anyway. it's not my fault she was a moody cow on tues.

ok so say i did it your way.. and say she either didn't confirm to cancel or did. where would that leave me?

same place im in now! i could either try again next week if i did it your way and right now it's the same thing. it's not my fault she's not into me. i honestly dont believe she was DTF, as i keep saying she's a lazy spoilt princess.. i've been with these types before they all act the same. you all seem to get all excited because she said 'let's go to the pub next to my place' as some come on when it wasn't at all.. that's BS, coincidental at best.

The Fail Is Strong In This One

big weezy said:

that's cos i didn't see your post before i sent it. it was too late i already sent it when i saw your post.

it doesn't matter really her IL was too low, im not waiting around for a girl to confirm plans with me to then be rushed at dinner for her to go off elsewhere and get drunk n bang someone else.

her IL was too low. end of. worth a punt but that's it.


look even if i just left it, and she just texted to say she cant make it.. she prob wouldnt have offered a counter time or day.. so why is what i've done going to change the outcome of what was inevitable?

at least i got to say i couldnt make it. yeah maybe she's pissed or thinks im just calling round diff girls saying the same thing but at the end of the day her interest was low so i had no place trying again anyway. it's not my fault she was a moody cow on tues.

ok so say i did it your way.. and say she either didn't confirm to cancel or did. where would that leave me?

same place im in now! i could either try again next week if i did it your way and right now it's the same thing. it's not my fault she's not into me. i honestly dont believe she was DTF, as i keep saying she's a lazy spoilt princess.. i've been with these types before they all act the same. you all seem to get all excited because she said 'let's go to the pub next to my place' as some come on when it wasn't at all.. that's BS, coincidental at best.

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She doesn't think that trust me. She knows you have no other plans. She just thinks you made it up because you are a psycho and trying to get back at her and make her jealous. TRUST ME ON THIS.

Never do this again.

cordoncordon said:

She doesn't think that trust me. She knows you have no other plans. She just thinks you made it up because you are a psycho and trying to get back at her and make her jealous. TRUST ME ON THIS.

Never do this again.

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bullsh1t. what if i have made other plans with friends? which i have, do i need to say that?

why wouldnt she think that? what because she might think im being desperate.. who knows what she's thinking. she doesn't know what my plans are. i only went for the insta date thing cos she doesnt make plans and this is the only way.

you may think im a psycho but she doesn't. she just thinks im an arrogant prick at worst with narcissitic tendencies.

why would she think i'd be trying to get back at her? she has plans with friends tonight.. so she was busy.. she wasn't sure if she could meet and would confirm later.. free meal f knows.. from my point of view this isn't a situation i want to be involved in where im rushed.. i want the girl to be dedicating her night to me not me vice versa. i would have just said do it another day.

im pretty sure she'll think im being a d1ck calling her up last min telling her im not taking no for an answer for dinner and impatient for not waiting till 6 to confirm.. even if that happened i'd be rushed.

bottom line her IL was low, it doesn't really matter what i did. unless i got lucky and she happens to be free then i can move forward.

big weezy said:

"hey HB i cant make it tonight i've already made other plans now. enjoy your night. x".

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Allow me to enumerate how wrong this was:

1) "hey" - A terrible opening (and poorly punctuated) word. Sounds as if OP is yelling at her.
2) "HB i can't" - Three words in and OP already sounds like an ED commercial.
3) "(OP) can't make it" - That's what she said!
4) "can't make it tonight" - As if OP had a choice.
5) "i've already made other plans now" - The "now" at the end reveals this was contrived on the spot/forum as "already made" is past tense and "now" is present tense.
6) "enjoy your night" - Another contradiction as OP obviously doesn't give a f*ck about her night if he just made other plans in the middle of a text about making other plans, and then rubbed it in (online).
7) "x" - Did OP try to sneak a hug in there? By this point, in this (amazingly compact and efficient) worst possible text, even texting a hug might qualify as sexual harassment.

I never thought I'd say this, but OP should have listened to cordoncordon.

Once again, you're going off on the very same people you're asking advice from. Why ask for help at all if you're just going to come back and contradict what we're saying?

More to the point, the way you're coming off towards us is the same way you're coming off towards her. You asked for a date, she said "maybe" (i.e. "no"), and you tried to sit there and give her a ultimatum about how she MUST meet up with you at x-time. No bueno.

To answer your most recent question, she'll know you didn't make other plans because no man in the history of guydom has ever made plans with a girl he liked and then tried to cancel those plans to make other plans with his friends instead. No girl is dumb enough to believe a guy would give up the chance to get laid in order to hang out with buddies instead. Yes, girls do it, but they only do it when they're not interested in the guy asking them out.

Make your life easier: in the future, anytime a girl says she needs to call later to confirm, assume it's a "no." What it usually mean is, she needs time to either find other plans or come up with a better story to tell you about why she can't make it. Either way, it results in her NOT going out with you.

Also: anytime a girl says "oh, I'm supposed to hang out with friends tonight," assume it means that, once again, she's NOT interested. If a girl you just met is trying to impress you, her girlfriends will understand if she gives up a night of hanging out and drinking to be with a guy who could be her potential soul mate. Stop letting their excuses give you false hope for connecting with them later - there's a reason "ex" is in the word "ex-cuse."

bigneil said:

Allow me to enumerate how wrong this was:

1) "hey" - A terrible opening (and poorly punctuated) word. Sounds as if OP is yelling at her.
2) "HB i can't" - Three words in and OP already sounds like an ED commercial.
3) "(OP) can't make it" - That's what she said!
4) "can't make it tonight" - As if OP had a choice.
5) "i've already made other plans now" - The "now" at the end reveals this was contrived on the spot/forum as "already made" is past tense and "now" is present tense.
6) "enjoy your night" - Another contradiction as OP obviously doesn't give a f*ck about her night if he just made other plans in the middle of a text about making other plans, and then rubbed it in (online).
7) "x" - Did OP try to sneak a hug in there? By this point, in this (amazingly compact and efficient) worst possible text, even texting a hug might qualify as sexual harassment.

I never thought I'd say this, but OP should have listened to cordoncordon.

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Is the world ending? Cats and dogs living together?

Harry Wilmington said:

Once again, you're going off on the very same people you're asking advice from. Why ask for help at all if you're just going to come back and contradict what we're saying?

More to the point, the way you're coming off towards us is the same way you're coming off towards her. You asked for a date, she said "maybe" (i.e. "no"), and you tried to sit there and give her a ultimatum about how she MUST meet up with you at x-time. No bueno.

To answer your most recent question, she'll know you didn't make other plans because no man in the history of guydom has ever made plans with a girl he liked and then tried to cancel those plans to make other plans with his friends instead. No girl is dumb enough to believe a guy would give up the chance to get laid in order to hang out with buddies instead. Yes, girls do it, but they only do it when they're not interested in the guy asking them out.

Make your life easier: in the future, anytime a girl says she needs to call later to confirm, assume it's a "no." What it usually mean is, she needs time to either find other plans or come up with a better story to tell you about why she can't make it. Either way, it results in her NOT going out with you.

Also: anytime a girl says "oh, I'm supposed to hang out with friends tonight," assume it means that, once again, she's NOT interested. If a girl you just met is trying to impress you, her girlfriends will understand if she gives up a night of hanging out and drinking to be with a guy who could be her potential soul mate. Stop letting their excuses give you false hope for connecting with them later - there's a reason "ex" is in the word "ex-cuse."

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i wasn't gona get laid tonight.. she was meeting her friends straight after our dinner IF we were going to meet. i realized after i put the phone down that i shouldn't have tried for it as im not playing the entree to the main course. she wanted to confirm no later than 6pm, im not waiting round for a confirmation.

tbh im glad i cancelled because there was no point in me going just to give her a free meal.. was i really going to get her so excited that she was gona cancel her drinks with friends? hell no! if she was then maybe i'd consider it.. i rather be out with my friends sarging tonight then out for dinner with a girl when there's no chance of it escalating.

bigneil said:

Allow me to enumerate how wrong this was:

1) "hey" - A terrible opening (and poorly punctuated) word. Sounds as if OP is yelling at her.
2) "HB i can't" - Three words in and OP already sounds like an ED commercial.
3) "(OP) can't make it" - That's what she said!
4) "can't make it tonight" - As if OP had a choice.
5) "i've already made other plans now" - The "now" at the end reveals this was contrived on the spot/forum as "already made" is past tense and "now" is present tense.
6) "enjoy your night" - Another contradiction as OP obviously doesn't give a f*ck about her night if he just made other plans in the middle of a text about making other plans, and then rubbed it in (online).
7) "x" - Did OP try to sneak a hug in there? By this point, in this (amazingly compact and efficient) worst possible text, even texting a hug might qualify as sexual harassment.

I never thought I'd say this, but OP should have listened to cordoncordon.

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ok so then say i didn't say anything and she texted me to cancel i.e. 'i cant do tonight blah blah' with no counter offer of another day.

where would that leave me?

you'd probably all say 'next'. well great i knew that already. there was a small chance she might have agreed to dinner but would i have really wanted to go under these circumstances where im second priority.

if i just left it.. then what?

Cancelling at this point makes you look crazy. Once you make a decision (asking her out) you have to stick with it--it's part of having an intact frame. Backing out undoubtedly will tell her that you are afraid of rejection. If she flakes, fine, move on. The only thing worse than her flaking is you telling her that you are afraid of her flaking (even if you arent, it will look that way). If you give her a bunch of excuses why you are backing out (friends, other plans, etc) it will look defensive and be even worse.

Big Weezy,

Cordon was pretty much on the money. It seems that you operate from a sense of lack. You telegraphed that to her big-time, and I think you know it, but you don't KNOW it.

You need to be a decisive man of business and shut out any woman who sits on the fence and strings you along. There should be zero tolerance for that, and YOU need to be the one who closes the door early on.

So many of us men (yours truly and some others here excepted) will try to create attraction where none exists, and it is futile. Attraction is created on a daily basis at the last moment a man looks himself in the eye in the mirror before leaving his house for the day. What does he believe he sees? It is created from an internal locus, and anyone who is not on board with your greatness should be summarily dismissed from your life. We should allow access or dismiss as we see fit, and we should do it decisively.

We must always convey that a woman would be lucky to be with you. Act it out till you believe it at your core. Women believe about you whatever you believe about yourself. If you believe you are a pink dinosaur with purple polka dots with all your heart, she will absolutely believe it to.

She said, "ok by".

Translation:
"Thank GOD", with a smattering of "F you" in there for seasoning.

I've always said, a woman will move mountains to see you if she likes you. Don't waste your time on the miscreants. You're better than that.

I have in my hand two pills...