She called me a "nice guy". Uh-oh. Treat her MEAN to keep her KEEN? Is it too late?

My cousin's friend and I met at a party 2 or 3 months ago. We were both a little drunk and high, had some good chemistry going, so by the end of the night while couples were making out on the couches, she started giving me "f**k-me" looks. Being the WBAFC socially-anxious beta male that I am, I didn't do anything about it, despite the fact I knew EXACTLY what she wanted. She even tried to take away my phone, throw me on the couch, get on my lap with her hair all up in my face, essentially trying to "rape" me. I have intimacy issues and HUGE social anxiety issues (to the point where I am now medicated for it) so I didn't do anything about it. I still beat myself up for this moment today, especially considering I'm a sexually-frustrated 21 year old virgin.

A couple weeks later, I saw her at church, obviously having been invited by my cousin, and we talked for a bit. She asked "Where have you been?" Clearly she missed me and thought I was acting unavailable. And we all know doing this attracts women to ya like a moth to the flame. It was kind of awkward though, and I felt the chemistry between us had been killed by this point.

When I saw her at a Christmas party about a month later, we talked for a little bit. That night I was SUPER drunk and right before she left to go home, I took her by the hands, and told her "I love you" like ten times. It was sort of done in a drunken, comical manner, ... Although I was attracted to her, I didn't really mean it, and I asked her if she had a boyfriend and she exasperatingly said "No....".

She found it funny and we chatted about it the next day on facebook. It would seem that maybe the spark of attraction between us may have been rekindled a little bit, but as I've heard, telling a girl "I love you" is often a one-way ticket in the friend-zone.

By this point, all my actions made me seem, in her eyes, like the stereotypical "nice guy." Later, she asked me if she really knew what I was talking about when I said I love her, that I was taking things too fast, and that I was a "nice guy". She then proceeded to talk about her crush of one year that won't give her the time of day, because he is too busy.

RED FLAG ALERT went off in my brain. She called me a nice guy. She started talking about other love interests. She began using me as an emotional tampon. At this point, I followed the great mantra of wisdom passed down through the generations of playboys and Casanovas: TREAT HER MEAN TO KEEP HER KEEN.

I told her "hahahahahah how stupid do you think I am? "I love you?" Yeah right trololoololo FOREVERALONE!". After that, there was a nice soothing pause, and she typed "Your an ***hole."

I then pretended to go on about having trouble with getting another girl, meanwhile calling the girl that I am chatting with a b**** many times, which p***** her off. She eventually got so mad that she signed off and said Goodnight.

DJs and other advice-givers, where do I stand at this point with her? Did I treat her TOO mean? Does she still see me as a "nice" or "non-sexual" guy? Clearly she thinks I'm a jerk now, and that's better than feeling indifferent towards me, right? Do I still have a chance? After all, she was initially attracted to me, so maybe I still have hope if I play things right in the future?

Hmmmm don't know what to say you may have appeared afc by saying you love her even jokingly I would never say it, the other problem was calling her a ***** and other un nice things It let her know you were affected by the whole situation. I'd say your best chance is tell your cousin to bring her and some other friends back out you bring a couple friends and you guys have a party and just get her drunk and play it off like you didn't know she would be there.


PS: If you're around vancouver area I could be your wing man

Your problem isn't that she called you nice, your problem is your actions. You pretty much totally wimped out with her. If you get another chance with her, be prepared to take the lead.

I actually liked your recovery about saying "I love you" - the whole "I love you? Yeah right" bit. But rule of thumb, you should never call a girl you're interested in "b!tch", no matter what Jay-Z does.

You went too far, I would say. You shouldn't be trying to prove you are a jerk, you should instead start being a man. Take the initiative and escalate instead of letting her try to rape you on the couch.

I know this can be difficult when you have limited experience and being a virgin and all. But that's what's expected of you. Forget this being a jerk and "treat her mean" nonsense, that's adolescent garbage.

I don't think you've necessarily blown it beyond hope, yet. You just have to grab the balls to take this where it needs to go.

zekko said:

Your problem isn't that she called you nice, your problem is your actions. You pretty much totally wimped out with her. If you get another chance with her, be prepared to take the lead.

I actually liked your recovery about saying "I love you" - the whole "I love you? Yeah right" bit. But rule of thumb, you should never call a girl you're interested in "b!tch", no matter what Jay-Z does.

You went too far, I would say. You shouldn't be trying to prove you are a jerk, you should instead start being a man. Take the initiative and escalate instead of letting her try to rape you on the couch.

I know this can be difficult when you have limited experience and being a virgin and all. But that's what's expected of you. Forget this being a jerk and "treat her mean" nonsense, that's adolescent garbage.

I don't think you've necessarily blown it beyond hope, yet. You just have to grab the balls to take this where it needs to go.

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Great advice!

The biggest problem the OP has right now is that this girl has a crush on another guy...another guy who is out of her reach. Some girls can become obsessed with one guy and while that's going on, no one else stands a chance.

I do think he fvcked things up beyond recovery.

If I was him I wouldn't be worrying about the impression the girl has. I bet that he's hoping he gets the same opportunity again which he threw away at the start.

See this woman was wearing the pants the entire time, and that's why there's no point pursuing her.

When you're seducing a woman let her think she's seducing you. So no chasing.

OP, she was trying to seduce you by getting on top of you and trying to get you to make a manly initiative(maybe she thought you weren't physically attracted to her for example), then when you went and told her "I love you" everything went off tangent. You went and steered your ship off course.

So she has double confirmation that you are not what she's looking for. You better stay away from her because she will try to own you in every social interaction.

Call it quits, learn and move on lol

Burn this saying in your mind and remember it always:

A woman is more likely to forgive you for acting like a man than for acting like a b*tch...

Ie, you are more likely to get another chance by going for it even if you don't get it than by wimping out...

You likely had your chance and blew it, lick your wounds, learn from it and dont make the same mistake twice...

Take advantage of your opportunities bro. The woman-rapes-man scenario is so rare that it is to be savored. It's rarely that easy.

Other than that, don't try to make her like you. Either by being too nice or by being too bad. Just be you, the socially awkward dork that you are, which was obviously working. Be a socially awkward dork with balls. Other girls will jump on it.

Being called a nice guy - then becoming psychotic and treating her like **** as a defensive measure isn't going to attract her to you. This is too extreme, and people need to understand that being a jerk is only going to get people to HATE you. What you did reeks of insecurity.

She called you a nice guy because you were too shy, passive, weak, and did not make a move. What more, you rejected HER sexual advances. This is how people end up in the friend-zone, and become labeled as nice guys. You put yourself in this position. This doesn't mean go ape**** and become the biggest ******* possible - it means man up, be assertive, and take some action. Act like a sexual being, and she will view you as one.

She did not call you a nice guy because you werent "mean" enough. Being mean just pissed her off completely - much like how being the nice guy turned her off completely. Neither extreme is effective, and will only result in further insecurity and failure.

Be a man, be dominant from the get-go. Don't act like you have to prove yourself, as that shows lower value.

You are also guilty of saying I love you first. Don't even say it jokingly. That's castration. If SHE says it first, say I know like Han Solo.

Thank you OP, but your princess is in another castle!

Case closed.

^ Agreed. Everything you do from here on out will be viewed as seeking her approval, trying to win her over, and becoming something you're not out of insecurity and fear of rejection. Women are not stupid; she called you a nice guy for a reason.

What you need to do is learn from this experience, and use it to fare better on the next candidate. Do not pine after her. She already knows you're weak and insecure, and that everything you do is an act to get her to like you - which is going to get her to not like you even more. Game over.

floydb25 said:

^ Agreed. Everything you do from here on out will be viewed as seeking her approval, trying to win her over, and becoming something you're not out of insecurity and fear of rejection. Women are not stupid; she called you a nice guy for a reason.

What you need to do is learn from this experience, and use it to fare better on the next candidate. Do not pine after her. She already knows you're weak and insecure, and that everything you do is an act to get her to like you - which is going to get her to not like you even more. Game over.

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What if she sees me making out hardcore with another chick at a party? Will this change her percepetion of me?

MrJibbles said:

What if she sees me making out hardcore with another chick at a party? Will this change her percepetion of me?

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Yeah. Then she might mistake you for a straight guy.

Iceberg said:

Yeah. Then she might mistake you for a straight guy.

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Ha ha, that's great... But, to the other guy: don't do anything with the intent of winning her over. If you take her back (or go to her) when she shows signs of jealousy - she's going to know that you only did it to win her over, and that she has you. You need to stop being insecure and trying to win her over. Approval seeking is not good. It doesn't matter how you do it - you're still doing it. Acting like you're not doing it doesn't change this. The underlying insecurity needs to be addressed. Otherwise, you're going to be used, manipulated, teased, strung along, walked all over, etc for many moons to come. People know when someone is a chump, and will take advantage of that.

Being called nice is not the end of the world.

A girl I met referred to me as Jerry from "Tom and Jerry" because of my short stature and my smile, I ended up dating her.

Sure there have been girls who have said "I'm too nice", but whatever, if treating people with basic manners, common courtesy and a basic level of respect is being too nice, then that's more of a reflection of the poor society we live in than my own character traits.

BUMP: Need to refresh this thread. At least give me a rebuttle, SoSuave members. I think I can get through this one if I'm patient enough.

Heres the deal on this entire situation: I moved here recently and met this specific girl, lets call her Sarah for now, through my cousin. Sarah is one of my cousin's best friends. Her best friend though is Natalia. Natalia has the hots for me,and has had a boyfriend for 3 or 4 years but, according to my cousin, thinks i'm really hot and wants me badly.

Natalia is also very good friends with Sarah; Sarah is like my cousin's second or third best friend. My cousin is having her debut (Filipino celebration of girl's 18th birthday) and all her good friends will be there. If Sarah sees me making out with one of my cousin's friends, namely Natalia, but I only talk to Sarah as her friend, will that make her jealous? I want to trick Sarah into thinking I'm not really attracted to her that much, will make out with chicks and have the ability to whenever, and basically make Sarah's perception of me change to that of a player. Define "player" as you will.

But if I make out with Natalia that night, which should be easy to do because I know she wants me, and Sarah sees this, how will she react? Sarah KNOWS Natalia has liked me for a while, and that I'd could get her if I REALLY needed to.

I plan to play tricks on Sarah. Keep her questioning me. Am I an indecivise, sexually-insecure "beta" nice guy, or a guy who pretended to declare his "love" for her all the while treated her like crap? I don't care about your answers, SoSuave members, only hers lol.

I know this chick will be single for sometime, she's acting all AFC with her "Prince Charming" (lol chicks will always be more beta than males, even the beta males hahahahah).

This will be a Hail Mary, i know. I don't like Sarah enough for her to be my "oneitis". I have too many other problems and focuses in my life for me to truly feel hung-up on her. Not only that but I have the hots for my cousin (f***ed I know, but f*** it she's given me MAJOR IOIs before, I also have the hots for her, and at least I have another plate spinning).

Does this create enough tension for me to still have her attracted to me? She may have given up hope on me by putting me into the friend zone, but if she sees me in a new light (aka. as a guy not truly focused on her, with the ability to make "triangles" and appeal to a sense of mystery and "fill-in-the-blanks" imaginatino to make her jealous) can I still salvage this?

If she sees me making out with Natalia, and considering Sarah already knows whats going on between Natalia and I, will this give me advantage?

I need your help, DJs and sosuave members. I WILL hook up with Natalia, eventually. But I ultimately want Sarah. Hell, I'll make one of Sarah's other friends fall in love with me if I REALLY have to. I HAVE the ability to do so. I have been diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder traits and apparently I am very adept at manipulating people without even realize it. I come off as an ******* sometimes, but I am very smart and socially savvy at times (especially when drunk lol), so I believe that my inner game and outer game tactics are strong enough that I can "win" Sarah back.

Note that my goal here is not to have Sarah become my "lover". I just want to f*** her. I don't care about her feelings. I don't care about all this relationship BS. I just need to know how to play my cards right and rightfully claim my prize? How do I currently build a house of success from the bricks of failure that I've figuratively thrown myself?

I'll give you my perspective. To me, you seem to be lacking in your understanding of some basic PUA theory.

(I'm assuming Sarah = that girl that tried to "rape" you in your OP).

Not acting on Sarah's IOI's, rejecting her "rape" move, and then not moving on her at the church weeks later lists about the worst possible things you could have done. But you understand all this. Telling her you love her is again a terrible thing that you did. But you get that as well.

When Sarah asked about whether you love her, you making sure that she knows that you don't and that you were drunk or whatever when you said it was the BEST thing you could have done. But you did it in a very bad way. You shouldn't be trying to be mean to a girl (calling her a b*tch goes way too far), because that will only push her away. You aren't trying to directly hurt her; you are trying to make her know that you don't need her (remember, need is distinct from want). The motto isn't "treat her MEAN to keep her KEEN," but rather "treat her like you don't NEED her to keep her KEEN" (again, need is distinct from want). You want her, but you don't need her. When she was talking about the love thing, you should have said something like "haha, I was VERY VERY hammered that night and I say crrrazzzy things when I'm drunk. No LOL I don't love you," and that would have simply and quickly solved it.

Also, talking to a chick you want to make a move on about your other love interests isn't a good thing either. Yes, it does show her that you don't need her, which is good, but it also tells her that you don't look at her romantically (i.e. that you don't want her), since normal guys don't talk to girls they like about other girls they like.

To answer your question, YES, having Sarah see you making out with another girl is the BEST thing you could do to raise her interest level. Again it shows her that you don't NEED her. But it's useless if you don't follow it up by making a move on her, because you still need to show her that you WANT her.

But above all, you are making the very greatest mistake: being hung up on Sarah. Why do you care about getting with Sarah? You're The Great Catch. You get attention from tons of women. You don't give a f*ck if some girl isn't responding to you. If a girl won't respond to you, you aren't going to waste your time. You'll just go after some other chick.

Stop all contact with Sarah and go after other women. Believe me, if there's any chance of Sarah getting back with you, this is the way it will happen.

And in the meantime, please brush up on your PUA theory. I rec. The Book of Pook. It is by far the best document on this site (much better than the DJ bible or bootcamp).

sighsigh said:

I'll give you my perspective. To me, you seem to be lacking in your understanding of some basic PUA theory.

(I'm assuming Sarah = that girl that tried to "rape" you in your OP).

Not acting on Sarah's IOI's, rejecting her "rape" move, and then not moving on her at the church weeks later lists about the worst possible things you could have done. But you understand all this. Telling her you love her is again a terrible thing that you did. But you get that as well.

When Sarah asked about whether you love her, you making sure that she knows that you don't and that you were drunk or whatever when you said it was the BEST thing you could have done. But you did it in a very bad way. You shouldn't be trying to be mean to a girl (calling her a b*tch goes way too far), because that will only push her away. You aren't trying to directly hurt her; you are trying to make her know that you don't need her (remember, need is distinct from want). The motto isn't "treat her MEAN to keep her KEEN," but rather "treat her like you don't NEED her to keep her KEEN" (again, need is distinct from want). You want her, but you don't need her. When she was talking about the love thing, you should have said something like "haha, I was VERY VERY hammered that night and I say crrrazzzy things when I'm drunk. No LOL I don't love you," and that would have simply and quickly solved it.

Also, talking to a chick you want to make a move on about your other love interests isn't a good thing either. Yes, it does show her that you don't need her, which is good, but it also tells her that you don't look at her romantically (i.e. that you don't want her), since normal guys don't talk to girls they like about other girls they like.

To answer your question, YES, having Sarah see you making out with another girl is the BEST thing you could do to raise her interest level. Again it shows her that you don't NEED her. But it's useless if you don't follow it up by making a move on her, because you still need to show her that you WANT her.

But above all, you are making the very greatest mistake: being hung up on Sarah. Why do you care about getting with Sarah? You're The Great Catch. You get attention from tons of women. You don't give a f*ck if some girl isn't responding to you. If a girl won't respond to you, you aren't going to waste your time. You'll just go after some other chick.

Stop all contact with Sarah and go after other women. Believe me, if there's any chance of Sarah getting back with you, this is the way it will happen.

And in the meantime, please brush up on your PUA theory. I rec. The Book of Pook. It is by far the best document on this site (much better than the DJ bible or bootcamp).

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Thanks for you help. I cut off all contact since that one night when I called her names. Haven't talked to her in at least month now and I only hung out with her two or three times. Hopefully time will help heal at least SOME of the wounds that I've brought upon myself. I will read more Book of Pook. As long as I can authentically live up to the "You are the prize" mentality and have multiple plates spinning, I think I can pull this off.

And to the noob who posted the facepalm jpg, I'll prove you wrong. Just watch me.

MrJibbles said:

And to the noob who posted the facepalm jpg, I'll prove you wrong. Just watch me.

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I love the fighting talk, Jibbles, loving the fighting talk, Jibbley, Jibbley!