Ex-Husband still around? Looking for your views...

I met this girl that I began to really develop feelings for. It got to the point where I felt she was relationship worthy, and that was something I was willing to start up with her. She felt the same way, and actually initiated all of that talk. After a little while we decided to be "together" and I have since dropped my plates and we are "exclusive".

It has only been a couple weeks, but one issue has been bothering me. She's extremely close with her ex-husband. She calls him her best friend. Now, I am NOT the jealous type. I never have, and never will tell a women (or anyone) who she can or cannot hang out with/talk to. I have never broken up with a girl simply because of jealousy reasons. So, it's bothering me how much this is bothering me.

I'm 26, she's 29, and they have been divorced for 3 years now. *Keep in mind, the following is based on what she told me: They have never once gotten physical since the divorce. She loves him for the fact he will always be there for her no matter what, but is not in love with him in a sexual or romantic way whatsoever. That feeling is the same for him. He cheated on her, which was the reason for the divorce, but things were bad for a while before that. They should have never gotten married as they were just extremely close friends and were stupid about trying to make a relationship out of it.

What bothers me so much about this, is the fact that he lives about 5 hours away. Because of this, she doesn't see him too often. However, when she does, it's her staying at his place for a weekend. And she tells me that he will be involved in her life. He will be at her 30th birthday, she will see him at or around Christmas, he will probably be at her wedding, etc.

I would like to get past this issue and see where this relationship can go. I am just worried about the possibility of her and I starting to get really serious, and nothing changing with her ex. If we were in a serious relationship, I feel it is extremely innapropriate for her to be spending weekends at her ex-husband's house. And I don't know how, or if, I could handle that.

We have talked about all of this, as I feel at this point we should not be wasting time if it isn't going to go anywhere. She completely understands my thinking, and admits she would probably feel the same way if everything was switched. Because of that she simply admitted to being wrong and selfish about this, and even apologized for it, but says she can't drop her best friend for someone she recently met.

I am curious to hear some views on the situation. Has anyone dealt with this? Do you think there is a chance they could be exactly how she describes and this really will not be an issue? Feel free to ask questions, as it's hard to put everything into words when it isn't all as fresh in my mind.

I wanted to ask this in the MM forum because I am hoping to not get quick responses like "leave her, she's just gonna go back to him and hurt you." If you honestly think that, please share your thoughts. I am just trying to weed out some thoughtless posters . Much appreciated, guys...

Hmm...she told you that they divorced because he cheated on her, "but it was bad before that."

A possible translation is: "He cheated on me because he didn't worship me and he wasn't an afc and he was also a drama king, which was like a roller coaster ride for my hamster."

It could be that. The ex could be this philandering stallion who she couldn't rope and now she talks to him to relive the feelings he gave her. Or he could be a joe six pack who banged some equally average woman on the side. But he doesn't sound like a liberal beta boy who licked her feet when she came home with semen on her clothes.

If he was a huge beta and she was disgusted by him, you can bet there would be no contact between them because "it just didn't work out." And if she's willing to tell you how she still loves him, no matter how quickly she attributes it to some unspecified Platonic endearment, you are right to suspect there might be more to the story. There usually is.

If it were me, I wouldn't worry about the sh!t anyway. "Oh, you like guys who bang other women? I'm happy to accomodate your taste in men."

Julius_Seizeher said:

..."Oh, you like guys who bang other women? I'm happy to accomodate your taste in men."

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bingo!

No way I'd let any serious gf stay at any guys house for the weekend. Just on principal. Not even if he's gay. There'd have to be a massive natural disaster or emergency with no other options for me to say OK to something like that. You don't want to give her that permission, which she will hold onto and manipulate in the future. Trust me, as a man who gave too much permission in my marriage-> DON'T DO IT!

Why you want to get married at 26 FFS? And to an older woman??? Wait 15 years, then marry a 30yr old bro!

Julius_Seizeher said:

If it were me, I wouldn't worry about the sh!t anyway. "Oh, you like guys who bang other women? I'm happy to accomodate your taste in men."

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Great line... and actually, I said something very similar (jokingly, though).

macagent said:

No way I'd let any serious gf stay at any guys house for the weekend. Just on principal. Not even if he's gay. There'd have to be a massive natural disaster or emergency with no other options for me to say OK to something like that. You don't want to give her that permission, which she will hold onto and manipulate in the future. Trust me, as a man who gave too much permission in my marriage-> DON'T DO IT!

Why you want to get married at 26 FFS? And to an older woman??? Wait 15 years, then marry a 30yr old bro!

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I am not exactly looking to get married now. But I do like this girl, and if it got to that, I would consider it. I do want to have kids, and would like to have some life left once they finally get out of the house, so I don't want to wait until 40.

So, your suggestion is to tell her she can't stay there, or break up with her? Because I'm also sure that if I make her choose, this will be over. So in other words, you think I should leave her.

I am a shameless, thoughtless poster.

Three years older, with an ex-husband and baggage like that?


You are considering marriage ?

You must be kidding yourself.

10 years later she's 40 and you are peaking, she looks like a grandma and you are still eye'ing college chicks in Chicago.

Good luck with that.

PDubb75 said:

... I do want to have kids, and would like to have some life left once they finally get out of the house, so I don't want to wait until 40.

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So, when your kids are out of the house, then you'll want to go fuk more women? Why wait 'til your old to do what you want to do today?

I hear this from sentiment from men, and I just don't get it. It sounds kind of defeatist - "Oh well, might as well get it over with. This person over here looks OK, may as well get married and have a kid or 3 before I get too old." See, if you marry a younger woman, then she'll have the energy to raise the kids, and make the dinner, and do the laundry. While you can relax on the couch with a ****tail after a hard days work. And if you've played your cards right throughout the relationship, you'll still get a BJ after the kids have gone to sleep. It's how Grandpa did it, and it worked out pretty good for him. Only wish I'd paid closer attention when I was younger...

Looking back on 30, I'm so glad I enjoyed my life (as much as I could within a marriage to a tyrant) and waited to have a child until I was 40. There is less physical endurance, true, but the added wisdom and ease that you can approach parenting with makes it completely worth waiting IMO. And really, I plan on still going strong in my 60's, so I'll have plenty of life left once she's out on her own

There is no true answer here that you will want to hear.

At some point as you progress in the relationship (if you dare), she'll have to get rid of him. Doesn't sound like she is willing.
Personally, I smell a lie in the story.

It is inappropriate for someone to hang around a person they've had sexual relations with while dating another - period!

This would be a big red flag for me. Not so much because of the jealousy but because of the type of person who would do this.

Spin more plates.
You're not exclusive.

SH

PDubb75 said:

If we were in a serious relationship, I feel it is extremely inappropriate for her to be spending weekends at her ex-husband's house.

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It is!!!

Holy Moses PDubb, this is a huge red flag.

I understand you have feelings for her, but this is just a bad formula for success. Best friends with ex-husband = Lose current (or future) husband.

This is one of those examples of how staggeringly naive some women can be about this "friends" business. Regardless of the circumstances of their marriage or their level of cordiality with each other, this woman is not going to get very far with any non-AFC loser carrying on with her ex husband like that.

I'll give you an anecdote: My girlfriend is still friends with a boyfriend she had over 10 years ago. They were together on and off for about 5 years through high school and college, and have remained friends ever since. She "swears" that they have not been physical since then, which I dont really believe, and we actually had a blowout over it early in the relationship. Long story short, I told her I dont care if they remain friends, or even hang out in a group setting, but I am not ok with the two of them hanging out solo. Period, end of story. The implication was that said behavior would be an absolute deal breaker. Thus far she has kept to that and tells me anytime there is a get together with him around. My man-instincts truly do not give me any suspicion of her cheating, but I'm also not dumb enough to believe that wouldn't be an open door if things were on the rocks with us.

Bottom line is, you aren't going to get far dictating your girl's company. HOWEVER, it is always well within your right to lay down your boundaries, and if she crosses them, there must be hard and swift action on your part. By that I mean you withdraw your attention completely for a time, or end the relationship.

In this case you haven't known her for too long, and you really dont have enough establishment with her yet to lay down a boundary like 'no solo time with your ex husband'. This seems like a lose-lose to me , PDubb.

Danger said:

How long did it take between meeting her and going exclusive?

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It was about a month before we went exclusive. And at the time I had 3 other FBs that were just a phone call away. I had no issues dropping them for this one though. I can, and have been happy being with just 1 person.

And, to SecondHalf's suggestion of spinning more plates. Even if that was something I was interested in, it just wouldn't work out. My roommate is dating my g/f's cousin. I could never have any of these girls over. Would be a huge headache.

Danger said:

Did she drop this ex-husband bomb on you before or after this mutual decision?

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It was actually during the decision of becoming exclusive. She straight up told me that she really likes me and wants to try to make it work, but she wanted to get something out in the open beforehand. She mentioned that she had waited to tell past b/f's and it came back to burn her.

To be honest, I'm not the most trusting person. I have been lied to enough times to know not to trust anyone just because I have feelings for them. But my issue here is not thinking that she's going to cheat on me with him, or go back to him. I just don't see that happened (of course, I could be wrong, but that's just my feeling). However, because I don't think she's going to cheat, it's almost like I can't come up with a good reason why I feel she should not see him. Aside from the fact I just don't like it.

To the guys talking about holding off on marriage for a while, I appreciate your insights. It is definitely something to think about.

Boilermaker said:

I am a shameless, thoughtless poster.

Three years older, with an ex-husband and baggage like that?


You are considering marriage ?

You must be kidding yourself.

10 years later she's 40 and you are peaking, she looks like a grandma and you are still eye'ing college chicks in Chicago.

Good luck with that.

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This.

Anyway, I was that ex husband, except we were still ****ing every weekend when she came to drop my kid off. We went to PTA meetings and recitials together, everyone couldn't believe we were broken up. Mainly she fvcked up, I left, and while I'd take some ass, I wasn't going to let her come back. It was my fault for being weak and not cutting her off completely, but seriously she was the best I've ever had.

Anyway she told the other guy all of this stuff, and now that they are together he is one jealous SOB. He refuses to let her even talk to me or see me. He's mentioned to her mother that I'm an arrogant prick and I think I'm hot sh1t. LOL insecure much bro?

So dude. Smash and dash. She's not ready yet if she's pulling that BS. Don't be the dude who judges a situation based on what a chic tells you. Because what else is she gonna say? The truth? Who's gonna stick around for that? Trust your gut. You're here because your spidey senses are tingling.

5 minutes of Alpha trumps 5 years of Beta. JULIUS outlined the situation pretty succinctly so I wont add more than to point out the bigger picture in PDUBB's situation. That is to say, beware the woman still fixated on a previous lover.

The opposite of love isn't hate, it's indifference. When a woman is 'over' a guy, she's indifferent to that guy. As the vast majority of men are beta, one of the most common post-breakup complaints is the rapidity of which he's replaced by a new lover. I would argue that this is less about women's seemingly cold indifference and more about how unremarkable he was as a beta boyfriend.

When a woman cheats, it's almost universally the result of hypergamy (or at least an attempt to consolidate a more beneficial form of hypergamy), however, when a man cheats it's generally because on some level he's Alpha enough to believe he deserves to. Even if the guy is beta leaning, an unexpected opportunity to cheat may be enough to prompt him to tap into an Alpha reserve of confidence sufficient enough to get after it with a new woman.

Dumping a woman is one of the highest forms of DHV and social proof, if the woman he trades up for is verifiably of high sexual market value than the one he dumps. Rest assured, this woman's ex could very easily have her back if he so desired. He was remarkable.

I want to add some info to this, and I'm NOT saying this simply trying to refute everything that has been brought up. I've taken all of this in and it has been extremely helpful. Generally, I do agree with everything mentioned.

But to this point (I realize it has not been long) this girl has been as straight up as anyone I have ever met. Best guy friends included. She does not hold anything back, and tells everything exactly how it is (sometimes to a fault). Even the times where I sincerely doubted something she had said, it has proven to be completely true. She is unlike every girl I have ever met in this regard. I know, I know... AFCs on here say that about every girl. But that's far and away the truth.

She is so definitive in the fact that they are nothing like "that" anymore, that I feel I have no reason not to believe her. She has done everything right to this point. She hasn't lied to me (that I know of), she's consistent in what she tells me, etc. On this site we preach about not giving a woman what she doesn't deserve. Aside from the fact that I hate the situation, I feel the way she has handled it with me, she deserves to be trusted on this. Am I wrong?

I agree that generally what a women says should not be taken as fact. But so far, her actions back up her words. Every time. So, in the nearly 2 months I have known her, when everything she says is backed up completely by her actions, it seems unfair to immediately assume this one case is different. That's where my confusion with the situation comes in. I'm not being an AFC that's letting her walk all over me. I've been judging her actions like a hawk since the start, trying to figure out of I should trust her, if I should end this, if she deserves me, and she constantly passes the tests. How is it fair to assume she isn't here, with zero evidence?

She's aware of the fact that I would be willing to walk, should something happen. She always mentions my confidence and knows I have options. I can thank this site for that, as she is for sure out of what most guys would consider "my league". So, I know I have been playing this right to this point. I don't think I'm getting played. Aside from this, the relationship is great so far. I just still don't like the situation.

Warrior74 said:

So dude. Smash and dash. She's not ready yet if she's pulling that BS. Don't be the dude who judges a situation based on what a chic tells you. Because what else is she gonna say? The truth? Who's gonna stick around for that? Trust your gut. You're here because your spidey senses are tingling.

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Exactly!

This is such a bad situation for you. She is NOT over her husband yet.

Imagine if it were the other way around and you were staying at your ex wife's house for the weekend. Do you think many women would put up with that?

If she had kids with the other guy and they had to see each other due to that then that is one thing. This, however, is no different than her staying at her ex bf's house. Would you allow that in your relationship?

Grow a set of balls and drop them on her. You don't have to act like a jealous loser. Tell her you aren't comfortable with this situation and you doubt any man would be. Give her one chance to fix things and make you feel right about things. If she doesn't do anything then obviously her ex is more important than you and you should move on.

Demand the best and you will get it. Accept BS like this and you will always be unhappy.

PDubb75 said:

I want to add some info to this, and I'm NOT saying this simply trying to refute everything that has been brought up. I've taken all of this in and it has been extremely helpful. Generally, I do agree with everything mentioned.

But to this point (I realize it has not been long) this girl has been as straight up as anyone I have ever met. Best guy friends included. She does not hold anything back, and tells everything exactly how it is (sometimes to a fault). Even the times where I sincerely doubted something she had said, it has proven to be completely true. She is unlike every girl I have ever met in this regard. I know, I know... AFCs on here say that about every girl. But that's far and away the truth.

She is so definitive in the fact that they are nothing like "that" anymore, that I feel I have no reason not to believe her. She has done everything right to this point. She hasn't lied to me (that I know of), she's consistent in what she tells me, etc. On this site we preach about not giving a woman what she doesn't deserve. Aside from the fact that I hate the situation, I feel the way she has handled it with me, she deserves to be trusted on this. Am I wrong?

I agree that generally what a women says should not be taken as fact. But so far, her actions back up her words. Every time. So, in the nearly 2 months I have known her, when everything she says is backed up completely by her actions, it seems unfair to immediately assume this one case is different. That's where my confusion with the situation comes in. I'm not being an AFC that's letting her walk all over me. I've been judging her actions like a hawk since the start, trying to figure out of I should trust her, if I should end this, if she deserves me, and she constantly passes the tests. How is it fair to assume she isn't here, with zero evidence?

She's aware of the fact that I would be willing to walk, should something happen. She always mentions my confidence and knows I have options. I can thank this site for that, as she is for sure out of what most guys would consider "my league". So, I know I have been playing this right to this point. I don't think I'm getting played. Aside from this, the relationship is great so far. I just still don't like the situation.

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2 months is easy. Come back in 6-8 and tell us how it went. Keep your plates. Don't put all your eggs in this one basket just yet. You know it's a red flag, it seems like you're looking for reasons to disregard it. (but this one is different!) Slow it down with this chic and don't get emotional and you should be find. Time will reveal, 2 months is nothing to fake it. Come back in 6-8 and tell us then hows it going. It's a red flag. Wait it out and see. But keep your plates.

Staying over at that dudes house? Just friends?! C'mon don't fall for that BS. I would very painfully hold out on furthering the relationship, then when she asks why i'm hesitant to move forward you tell her that you just cant get involved with anyone that's so involved with the ex. She's lying to you dude she still likes him. Just tell her that you are waiting for her to finish her old relationship. When you speak to her assume that she has unfinished business and see if she agrees by not rejecting the idea, that will speak volumes right there. If you have cut relations with your girl friends then tell her nicely that you dont think that you deserve anything less from her. Give yourself value by only commiting to her what she will commit to you. What concerns me the most about this is that she is trying to pull this BS on you. What must she think of you? Be careful with this one dude.

samspade said:

Trust your instincts and rational assessment of the facts. What she tells you can only help you insofar as you eliminate it as a potential truth.

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To be honest, my instincts tell me to trust her. But that doesn't mean I like the situation. Which is why I'm here. Last time she went there, I hated it. But I wasn't getting the feeling she was cheating. And I don't have the feeling that she's going to.

But my point here, is the facts so far line up exactly with what she has told me. So, it isn't "blah blah blah". It's been completely true to this point.

Again, I am not trying to refute the advice given here. It has already helped me, even if for the fact of being more aware if I do continue with it.

macagent said:

bingo!

No way I'd let any serious gf stay at any guys house for the weekend. Just on principal. Not even if he's gay. There'd have to be a massive natural disaster or emergency with no other options for me to say OK to something like that. You don't want to give her that permission, which she will hold onto and manipulate in the future. Trust me, as a man who gave too much permission in my marriage-> DON'T DO IT!

Why you want to get married at 26 FFS? And to an older woman??? Wait 15 years, then marry a 30yr old bro!

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All of this is excellent advice. I've said it before, she's not asking for permission to stay at the guys house or whatever, she's really asking for you to put your foot down and show you've got the balls to not tolerate her bs and to establish some boundaries. Have some standards and expectations of behavior ffs and make it known what happens if she fails to measure up (you walk). If she values the relationship then in the short term she'll piss and moan and make a stink about it, but in the long run she'll respect you for it. And if you do split up because of it, then you dodge a bullet because she's not relationship material if she doesn't understand that doing something that inappropriate in a relationship is something you just don't do. What happens when the other shoe drops and she cheats or does something else you find is completely unacceptable but she doesn't care what you think?

I feel it is extremely innapropriate for her to be spending weekends at her ex-husband's house

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Then you've got to do like I said and put your foot down and make it known you don't find this as acceptable behavior in a committed relationships, least of all with some guy you don't even know (as if that'd make a difference).

Danger said:

Her actions back up her words, but do they backup the conviction that she does not want to lose you? It appears her actions say that she values this man over you.

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She sees him every other month or so. Said she saw him 4-5 times last year. This isn't something where she goes there all the time and I don't see her. And it's not like I feel like she doesn't want to be with me except for when I threaten to leave. Not at all. Her feelings for me are obvious. Her friends tell me all the time that they haven't seen her like this over a guy in a very long time. I know she likes what we have.

That's why I'm confident that if she wanted to be with him, she would be. Or at least wouldn't be with me. She's had 3 years. She's dated other guys, been in love with other guys.

Danger said:

I still say it is not too late to say that you want to take some space and that you are not ready to commit to someone who has other men in their life.

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I might. This thread has got me thinking, which is why I wanted to post. In the very least, I'm not going to let myself get too emotionally attached until I get a better understanding of what is going on here.

Danger said:

You may or may not be an AFC, but a man with real, viable options would likely not tolerate behavior like this.

And it isn't necessarily about you getting played right now......it is about boundaries and respect.

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I'm not going to sit here and say I'm the most alpha male, and a DJ and whatever. I am still very new to all of this, but I have caught on to the teachings here very quickly, with a great deal of success. I had fun spinning plates, but, I like having more of a connection with someone. Right now, this is the one I had it with. And it's fun and easy. There is just this one issue.

I COMPLETELY agree about the boundaries and respect... I hear you loud and clear on that one.

Danger said:

Has she invited you out there with her? Have you met this man?

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She has not invited me out there and I have not met him. I'm not so sure I would care to meet him. Do you think there is a benefit to that?

Dude i know that this might not be what you would want to hear but knowing females i can honestly tell you at this point that this chick probably still has feelings for her ex husband, and the mere fact fact that she still spends weeknends with him at his house should serve as a red light for you, TELL ME, WHEN SHE'S AT HER EX HUSBAND'S HOUSE WITH HIM, DO YOU HONESTLY BELIEVE THAT THEY JUST SIT THERE AND STARE AT EACH OTHER AND DO NOTHING ? even if she goes to his house with no intention of getting physical with him, BUT HER EX HUSBAND'S A MAN AND WHEN HE GET'S THE OPPORTUNITY, HE WILL MAKE MOVES ON HER........females will always say one thing and do the total opposite, SHE HONESTLY CAN'T COME OUT OF THE BLUE AND TELL YOU THAT SHE'S STILL HAS FEELINGS FOR HER EX HUSBAND.............WHEN IT COMES TO FEMALES, DON'T TAKE ALOT OF WHAT THEY TELL YOU SERIOUSLY, BUT ALWAYS WATCH THEIR ACTIONS.

Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! I just finished catching up on the thread. Warrior and Rollo said it best, this chick is a high risk for cheating with the ex. Definitely not LTR potential. At best I'd give her a slot in my lineup, but that's it. The first sign of trouble I'd cut her ass loose, but that already happened when she stayed the night at another man's house. OP royally fuct up in letting her do so in the first place.