A major flaw in my game - possibly the DJ mentality

It's the same old story for me....

My seduction game is at its peak right now and I'm banging 8s and 9s without much difficulty. During the initial stages and first dates, their interest is sky high, verging on obsessive. A few weeks later, and always completely out of the blue, they turn cold.

I've been dating this fitness model for the past 6 weeks. Everything was going perfectly. The sex was amazing, she couldn't keep her hands off me and would text me and want to talk to me all the time. She even told me outright that she really likes me and it's more than just physical for her.

We had a great date last weekend and lots of great sex. She was most definitely satisfied, several times over. She sent me texts the entire day after and seemed to be getting paranoid when I took my time to reply. Still very high interest the following days as she talked about what we did the weekend and how she couldn't wait to do it again, and then suddenly towards the end of the week she turned cold. I got one word replies and then she just stopped replying. I text her today asking how she was and she just replied that she was busy - a classic sign of low/lost interest.

Of course, my next course of action is to go no contact and I've already lined 2 dates up for this week. But this keeps happening to me and it makes no sense. It just seems as though I'm one of those guys who girls lust after, but who is not perceived as relationship material.

Could this be the downside of the DJing and seduction mentality? We portray ourselves as sexual beings, as players and high value males, but in doing so are we disqualifying ourselves from steady relationships? I look around at guys in long term relationships, guys who are married and settled down, and most of them appear to be nice guys - the sort of safe, predictable, asexual guys we train ourselves not to be. I've heard it said that girls seek bad boys, studs and players to satisfy their sexual needs, but a warm and sweet guy to settle down with.

We, in the DJ and seduction community, condition ourselves to be the former kind of guy and to avoid everything that would make us the latter. But how many of us have success in relationships or long term dating?

But then there's another side to this coin. When a woman hooks up with a guy like me, perhaps she wants it to remain purely physical, no strings, no risks. And maybe that's exactly why she's with a guy like me. So the moment I start to like a girl beyond that, she backs off, not wanting it to go any further.

The ironic thing about this is that I act exactly the same way with some women. I want to keep them as fvck buddies and continue having fun, yet many of them start developing feelings for me and it scares me off. And yet a girl who is not particularly sexual and who seems sweet and caring, I often see as relationship material.

Does this make any sense or am I just waffling? Basically, I am a very introspective person and if something is not going right for me, I like to work out what that is and work on fixing/improving on it. Unfortunately, when it comes to long term dating or relationships, I keep on failing and I can't explain why.

I'd just be interested to hear your perspectives, experiences or from anyone who has success in relationships and how it differs from gaming women for sex.

This is what most guys dont get. On the outside they can be this amazingly polished guy, with all the right moves and lines but inside they still dont feel totally at one with themselves. So they can get the one night stands and short term things but girls will never see them as boyfriend material. To actually get to a deeper point with someone, you need to be genuine, you cant fake it. You cant come up with some line, you have to make yourself vulnerable otherwise shes just going to label you as another guy whos scared of commitment because hes too afraid to open up because the girl might not like him anymore if she sees the real him.

Just think, most of the lines and routines used in the community is to cover up the real person you are inside when in reality to get a solid connection you need to be doing the exact opposite. Its when you reach the point that you're so secure in yourself that you can open up to someone and let them see the real you, thats a connection which you cant fake. Thats why so many guys in the community are getting girls but they cant keep them.

Mr Wright I agree 100%. I've always said that lines, routines and fake personas will fall apart when a girl gets to know you. To be honest, they never even helped me get laid, let alone anything more. The confusing thing for me is that I turned my back on all that long ago and opted for a more natural approach.

I know that my size, physique and looks are a big pulling point for women, but I also tend to create a very good rapport and have a great laugh with women too. However, I do wonder if there's some inconsistency between my looks and personality. People say I look like a bad ass, but when they get to know me I'm very laidback and lighthearted.

Something to consider

"LTRs require a small but significant infusion of beta provider game to remain healthy and satisfying for any woman."

If you run solid attraction game but your rapport is weak (usually due to time constraints or a loud environment not conducive to sitting down and getting more conversational with a girl), there is a higher chance she will flake not because she’s uninterested, but because she suspects you may be a player who will love her and leave her. The positive but superficial emotions that an exciting player instills in her quickly dissolve once she’s back home and decompressing. Emotions generated from rapport are longer lasting if for no other reason than that they are unique to her — most men will not have the skill or knowledge to successfully engage a girl in deep conversation on the first meet. This is why nearly all masters of seduction stress that the comfort stage (or “day 2 stage”) is 90% of getting a woman into bed.

One thing you’ll notice if you occasionally date women in their late 20s is an uptick in flaking brought on by a volatile psychodramatic mixture of getting burned in the past by badboys and their biological clocks pushing them to find stable, paternally inclined men. None of these things are conscious decisions; her actions are the manifestation of subconscious forces.

Beta provider has a bad connotation, but in fact women, especially those past a certain age and feeling the forlorn pangs of their empty wombs, have a part of them that is attracted to such men. Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to identify which of the women you date are genuinely interested in signs from you that you would make a good husband and father, and to feign the signals that would peg you as a beta provider. This means attenuating your cad game and emphasizing your dad game….

Naturally, for most guys, acting like a beta provider isn’t much of a stretch. But if you’re good at attracting random girls you’ll find that in time you lose touch with the “softer” side of yourself. Newly graduated players often nurse an incoherent fear of seeming too beta, so they compensate too far in the other direction. This is why when men fail to get a woman into bed the cause is more often the result of a bad day 2, and not the initial meet.

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http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2009/01/28/feigning-beta-provider/

Take everything with a grain of salt. This alpha beta mindset can mess you up. I like the idea of Naturals, they seem to have the best of both worlds. But then, to be a natural, you need practice, to be skilled, not to feign (like Roissy says), that´s a natural!

Thanks for that info Blue Phoenix. I see what you're saying about trying to feign this alpha beta mindset. I tried something like this earlier in the year and got the LJBF and the "you're a nice guy..." rejections.

However, there does seem to be some truth there and it seems quite consistent with my observations. It's also interesting that most of my dates fail on day 2.

Two of my ex girlfriends said they were scared to get involved with me because they thought I was a player and a few girls I dated have told me I look like a player.

However, it seems that most of these women who turn cold on me do so the moment I develop more interest in them and say things that show a little more affection. Nothing needy of course, just something like "I wish you were in my bed tonight" or "I really like your company".

Thanks Balrog, you definitely make some valid points here.

I tend to go for women of all ages from 20 to 40, but it seems to happen with all ages. The last few have been closer to my own age.

One of these women I had sex with on the first date, she seemed really into me, then suddenly went really cold. I backed off an told her "let's just leave it as a one off" and then she started coming round again and we had sex a few more times. However, it was just sex and nothing more. I believe that the reason she came round was because I let her know there were no strings.

It also seems that the only women who back off are the ones I start to like beyond sex. I don't know if I give off some vibe that scares them off, but it does seem as though these women don't want me getting attached. Whereas I have a number of women I'm not interested in who are obsessed with me and still contacting me 6-9 months after we dated.

So on one hand I think you could be right about showing more romantic, non-player qualities, but on the other I find that being aloof seems to maintain their interest.

Perhaps I'm just being too sexual too soon and in doing so I rule myself out as relationship material. I must admit, I feel that way about women too. If a woman puts out easily and is sexually forward, I see her as a great fvck buddy or one night stand, but it's the sweeter, more innocent women I tend to qualify more as relationship material.

Jariel, have you considered it is not a problem with you?

If their interest is sky high from the word go clearly that is a red flag. It is the sort of thing you'd expect from a teenage girl. But then again teenage girls fall in and out of love at the drop of a hat. Clearly these girls are putting a huge weight on the physical as she cannot possibly know you as a person after such a short time and quite likely she moves on to the next shiny thing she sees.

I would suggest that next time you meet girls like that you just see it as a sexual thing and enjoy it while it lasts.

But for a relationship find a girl who is not wowed by your physical package (or has the self control to keep it to herself) and shows a steady rise in interest level as she gets to know you better-your personality, your values and so on.

Jesus dude, it sounds like you're doing great. Can't believe you think this is something to complain about! You're getting all the good stuff with none of the hassle of relationships, demands, jealousy, controlling behaviour, etc.

What really happened was probably an ex boyfriend or a new suitor jumped into the picture.

Sky high interest in you like that isn't sustainable anyway, that is the sign of a girl with an over active imagination. If they put you on a pedestal then they can take you off, so you need to avoid the whole 'obsession' phase and ask that she remain sane.

Saying it was because you were too alpha and gave off a player vibe sounds like the wrong diagnosis. You aren't tiger woods.

No no no! This is the flaw with being a Pickup Artist, NOT a Don Juan. The way of the Don Juan surpasses just mere girls and women, my friend. It's about demanding life show all that it has, not just banging an unlimited supply of 10s. You're right, there is a flaw. But it's with Pickup, not with the art of Don Juan.

Matt Rogers said:

If their interest is sky high from the word go clearly that is a red flag. It is the sort of thing you'd expect from a teenage girl. But then again teenage girls fall in and out of love at the drop of a hat. Clearly these girls are putting a huge weight on the physical as she cannot possibly know you as a person after such a short time and quite likely she moves on to the next shiny thing she sees.

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Man, I never really looked at it like that before but you're right. It's true that many of these women do become quite obsessive early on. This most recent woman was so full on it almost scared me off. She kept kissing me every few minutes, even as I was trying to eat and was even discussing plans for us to go on a holiday. In fact, she even made a little half-jokey comment about us finding a place together in future...after just 3 dates. Others have been almost as keen. I've even had one girl insist that I was perfect and when I tried to tell her I'm not, she kept insisting I am. Like you say those are definitely red flags I have overlooked. I guess I get flattered and caught up in the attention...and maybe even a little complacent, taking their interest for granted.

It does sound like they're building me up in their minds and I can't possibly live upto their expectations. Thanks for the insight mate, it's given me a new perspective and I'll tread very carefully with such women in future.

Yo'Mama said:

Jesus dude, it sounds like you're doing great. Can't believe you think this is something to complain about! You're getting all the good stuff with none of the hassle of relationships, demands, jealousy, controlling behaviour, etc.

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Very true, I should really be grateful. I get to have my way with these women and then move on to the next (exactly what I'm doing this week). As with this recent woman, I start out with this attitude that it's just going to be sex, then I start to like their company and find myself wanting more. Perhaps it's a self-control issue and I need to keep my own emotions in check and keep things in perspective.

ease said:

What really happened was probably an ex boyfriend or a new suitor jumped into the picture.

Sky high interest in you like that isn't sustainable anyway, that is the sign of a girl with an over active imagination. If they put you on a pedestal then they can take you off, so you need to avoid the whole 'obsession' phase and ask that she remain sane.

Saying it was because you were too alpha and gave off a player vibe sounds like the wrong diagnosis. You aren't tiger woods.

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I did think about the other guy and I think in some cases it's definitely true. In fact, I believe some of these women have been in relationships or on a "break" while getting with me.

I see your point about this obsessive behavior and putting me on a pedestal. I realise they're placing too high expectations on me that I just can't live upto. I have no idea what they expect of me, but I have been told that I act differently to the way I look.

I know the player vibe has scared women off in the past, but I doubt it's that either as it has also won over a lot of women too. Plus it always seems to be when I try to hide this player image that things start backfiring on me.

TheJazz said:

No no no! This is the flaw with being a Pickup Artist, NOT a Don Juan. The way of the Don Juan surpasses just mere girls and women, my friend. It's about demanding life show all that it has, not just banging an unlimited supply of 10s. You're right, there is a flaw. But it's with Pickup, not with the art of Don Juan.

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I see exactly what you're saying here and maybe I've been focusing too much on women and not enough on enjoying life. Aside from the gym and my work, I actually don't have a lot going on in my life right now and I admit to using women to fill a gap. With all my friends settled in relationships these days I tend to use women for some social contact, which can't be too healthy.

Well, I've been feeling a bit confused and down since my last failure so I went on a date today with a HB8 I met via POF. I was only with her for 2 hours on an extended lunch break, but the attraction was instant and I've left her very keen to meet again.

Actually, most of my dates go this way, which I should be very thankful for, and it shows I've got something good going for me. I'm making a very careful observation of my behaviour over the next dates and see if I notice anything I do differently that might be offputting.