Is Seduction Real?

This has been driving me crazy for awhile so I got to post this question. Can you REALLY, honestly, seduce a girl? When I say "seduce" her I'm talking about taking a girl that just wants nothing to do with you at all for whatever reason that you might have no control over, and literally saying this or saying that and changing her mind?

Here's what I've experienced:

1.) My "presentation" is mostly the same with every girl and really there's no presentation at all. I'm about all personality. Most girls that I meet say that I'm "cute" (you know how girls talk) in the looks area, I always present myself wearing high fashion and my car is nice. I'm also about to upgrade to an even better car and I might post a pic of it on here lol.


2.) But here's the thing, the results I get depend upon the girl. There are girls that will love me, some that will just "go with the flow," then some that will flat out say boy get lost lol. But here's the WEIRD thing. I would have some average looking chick reject me to turn around and have a total dime accept my offers lol. Looking at it, it doesn't make any sense, but I think it's coming back to what I'm starting to see in the field and that's the result of the interaction with the girl has more to do with the GIRL in question rather than you. I mean of course you need to look good and do your thing, but what I'm finding is that the results often depend upon the state of the girl and her life and her background, etc.

What are you guys experiencing? I mean are guys here seriously whipping out "lines" and player shyt to turn girls that are just totally not interested to being interested? I guess from reading Sosuave I'm more in line with the Anti-Dump focus on the girl being interested when I show up rather then believing I can create interest.

Another thing about this Sosuave or Seduction stuff that trips me out is the focus on "here's what women think" or "here's how you handle women." And I'm sitting here thinking well, maybe that shyt works on white women but I know damn well that shyt won't work on no black chick lol! That's just one example but what I'm saying is, do you guys see this whole "seduction" "how to get her to fvck you" shyt as just crap? Are you really seducing the girl or did the girl find you sexy when you walked in the door and already decided that she would fvck you JUST AS LONG as you didn't come off as a loser, creep, etc?? Which means all this shyt comes down to is having the balls to go up and spark interesting convos, have an interesting personality, and knowing WHICH girl in the room to go up to and which ones not to?

Dear JT,
Yes of course there is such a thing as seduction,but in general if we are talking about second or subsequent dates,then the Seductee,has made up her mind,that it is going to happen tonight....The spontaneity bit is all part of the Theatre.

JT7890 said:

This has been driving me crazy for awhile so I got to post this question. Can you REALLY, honestly, seduce a girl? When I say "seduce" her I'm talking about taking a girl that just wants nothing to do with you at all for whatever reason that you might have no control over, and literally saying this or saying that and changing her mind?

No, generally you can't. There might be that rare, super persistent guy who pulls it off once, but it's totally the exception and not the rule.

Here's what I've experienced:

1.) My "presentation" is mostly the same with every girl and really there's no presentation at all. I'm about all personality. Most girls that I meet say that I'm "cute" (you know how girls talk) in the looks area, I always present myself wearing high fashion and my car is nice. I'm also about to upgrade to an even better car and I might post a pic of it on here lol.

2.) But here's the thing, the results I get depend upon the girl. There are girls that will love me, some that will just "go with the flow," then some that will flat out say boy get lost lol. But here's the WEIRD thing. I would have some average looking chick reject me to turn around and have a total dime accept my offers lol. Looking at it, it doesn't make any sense, but I think it's coming back to what I'm starting to see in the field and that's the result of the interaction with the girl has more to do with the GIRL in question rather than you. I mean of course you need to look good and do your thing, but what I'm finding is that the results often depend upon the state of the girl and her life and her background, etc.

I bolded the key line. I agree with this totally. I truly believe that 70% percent of the game is choosing the right target, i.e. one that's interested. The other 30% is not f*cking up, i.e. doing or saying something stupid that turns her off.

Even guys that are so called "naturals" that score often are (consciously or unconsciously) good at target selection. They don't have magical powers that allows them to seduce ANY woman. (Although it may appear that way to the observer since he might only approach one girl that night.) Through experience, the "natural" develops a strong intution about which women are DTF and which ones would go for their type.

What are you guys experiencing? I mean are guys here seriously whipping out "lines" and player shyt to turn girls that are just totally not interested to being interested? I guess from reading Sosuave I'm more in line with the Anti-Dump focus on the girl being interested when I show up rather then believing I can create interest.

I agree with you and bolded the relevant part.

Another thing about this Sosuave or Seduction stuff that trips me out is the focus on "here's what women think" or "here's how you handle women." And I'm sitting here thinking well, maybe that shyt works on white women but I know damn well that shyt won't work on no black chick lol! That's just one example but what I'm saying is, do you guys see this whole "seduction" "how to get her to fvck you" shyt as just crap? Are you really seducing the girl or did the girl find you sexy when you walked in the door and already decided that she would fvck you JUST AS LONG as you didn't come off as a loser, creep, etc?? Which means all this shyt comes down to is having the balls to go up and spark interesting convos, have an interesting personality, and knowing WHICH girl in the room to go up to and which ones not to?

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You totally nailed it with the line I just bolded.

This is like in sales.

Some girls will dig you regardless of what you do. Some will go for you only if you spit the right game at the right time in the right place. Some will never go for you regardless of what you do.

Attraction is not a choice - however, what you do from there is entirely up to you.

I think people get hung up on the word "seduction." It conjures up melodramatic associations of doing something nefarious to tempt someone into doing something against their own interests. In some instances that may be the case, but far more often seduction is really just selling yourself effectively by manipulating the emotions and psychologies of others.

Advertisers have known this for years; the best seductions are the ones where the target isn't aware of being seduced, plays a willing part in their own seduction and are so rapt in their own involvement that they'll prefer pathological denial when confronted with having been seduced. No one likes to think that they could be so inured or naive (i.e. suckered) that they'd fall for a seduction, yet whenever they buy a lottery ticket their heads are filled with fantasies of what they'll do with all that money.

So, given all of that, naturally no one is going to ever get any concrete feedback as to what produced an effective seduction from the target that was seduced. That's the subjective nature of all seduction - you can only draw your conclusions from what worked and what didn't according to your own goals, not the target's. For instance, I'd argue that it's a rare woman who'll admit to having been seduced by a man. It's a point of pride for women to think that they have some preternatural ability (feminine wiles) to seduce men (really by virtue of having a vagina). And for those women who would admit to it, it's always couched in complimenting herself for being such a woman who could attract a man capable of seducing her.

Bear in mind, everyone has Game. Even the worst beta AFC in the world believes his supplication, pedestalization and outright prostration for a woman will separate him from the rest of the herd of "other guys" and increase his appeal to her. Everyone of us, learned or not, has a Game in that we approach our sexual interests in the way we believe will best produce the desired result - ƒucking. This Game (usually) is modified over time and by experience and results, as well as according to various environments, individuals and personal conditions throughout life.

Romantic seduction has never been one-size-fits-all. In fact this is expressly spelled out in the introduction of the Art of Seduction by Robert Greene. You can't just blindly expect one style of seduction to work for all types of women - that's why it's called an Art. Being a good artist of any sort requires time, discipline, an ability to improvise, creation, adaptation, attention to detail, etc. There are certain basic foundational principles women adhere to (hypergamy for instance) either due to social convention or biology, but the good seductive artist uses these as a basis for an individual seduction. For instance, the seduction of a church mouse and a goth chick require two separate seductive approaches, but they'll both be influenced by the underlying influences common to all women (i.e. hypergamy, etc.). A Man's Alpha prowess will appeal to those biological foundations, but his approach in seduction needs to be measured by the conditions presented by his target.

Got it, so everybody mainly agrees that there really aren't "standard rules" for seduction.

But I guess what I'm asking is, unlike in business where you have actual scientific models and business cycles where you can precisely PREDICT what's about to happen to a particular sector or business, you don't have that with women. Women are a collection of individual mindsets and motivations for the most part, not collective "in the box" sectors, agreed? So then how can we come here and create threads or DJ Bibles about how to seduce or attract "women" as if we were talking about something that functioned like business as a collective whole rather then an individual motivation?

If you read Sosuave or seduction forums you would think that women were all the same and if you did xyz, you would be flooding with chicks overnight. But in reality, there's no such thing as a guy that can get ANY GIRL HE WANTS, from my life experience the guy that has alot of chicks is just very good at target selection just like Mike pointed out.

That is very similar to business, because alot of people think that a good sales guy is some magical "god" that says special things and moves in special ways and can walk into ANY business and close the client lol. When in reality, the good sales person is only selling alot because he's spending ALL of his time on people that were already interested in the service BEFORE he showed up, he just needs to make sure his presentation and features meet their needs.

If you take out all the variables like

• Personal Preference
• Mood
• Character
• Circumstance

There are some basic rules of seduction which are universal:

Rule #1 Don't be needy

You can be a GQ model with millions and it won't matter if all your value hinges on her. It's a turnoff for anyone to have to take up that emotional burden. She's a potential mate, not your mommy.

You should also have options, because focusing all your energy on one girl (during early phases of courtship) is very outcome-dependent game; this is not only ineffective, it's an inefficient use of your time!

Rule #2 Be awesome

Whatever you do in life, do it well and be proud of yourself. Let your accomplishments add up over time into pure confidence. Your agenda should be the primary focus; women a pleasant distraction. Even when you have her "in the bag", keep your own hustle going, and let her miss you sometimes. Never let a girl consume your whole life, it's a poor investment!

Take care of your health/body because this also affects your mind. Feeling good about yourself makes you ten times more attractive.

Rule #3 Dominate

As a man you must ABL (Always Be Leading). Despite the feminist grab for power in recent decades, women detest having to make all the decisions and can't help being attracted at a visceral level to a man who can sweep them off their feet. No asking for permission. No p*ssy-footing. No apologies. Know what you want and go for it. You have to actually play the game in order to get anything out of it, so quit standing on the sidelines and take a f*cking chance. Play the numbers or get played by them.

Rule #4 Screen like a Motherf*cker

Have standards and apply them. This can be done playfully or however you want. But the basic aim in meeting any woman is determining if she is a good fit for you. Don't fall into the trap of trying to meet HER expectations because that sets the wrong frame. Show interest, flirt but don't fall in love based purely on physical appearance. Have the balls to filter out the ones who just don't click. (See Rule #1)

Rule #5 Be congruent

Don't pretend to be something you are not. If "being yourself" is not working, then obviously you have work to do on that self. Yes you may experience limited success by faking it till you make it, but eventually the other shoe always drops and women will also drop you like a bad habit when that happens. Most of them can smell your bullsh*t from a mile away so cut the act and BE the man that you project on the world.

Rule #6 Have Fun

Seduction is NOT serious life-or-death business. Rejection will not cause you head to implode and the failure of a relationship will only make you stronger and wiser in the long run. Learn to enjoy the process and by extension, women will enjoy being around you. Relax, make light of the situation and don't be afraid to think outside the box. Life is too short to live with so much fear and anxiety over something as beautiful as two people getting together.

These 6 basic rules are powerful when you apply them. I consider them to be the very foundation of game - everything else is just personal style and fluff.

The stuff here is not scientific. It is a lot of generalizations based on experience as well as just plain opinion. We use generalizations because there are no 100 percent rules when dealing with women. Dating and/or pickup is not a lab experiment that can be exactly duplicated.

However it doesn't mean this stuff isn't valuable. I think the stuff here is extremely valuable and useful. Most of all, we have guys genuinely helping each other FOR FREE, instead of some guru who tells you their product is the magic bullet and only wants your money.

So by all means take what you can from these generalizations like be confident, be physically fit, etc. (Razor Sharp just did a good list.). These things help increase the number and quality of the targets that are attracted to you. They also minimize your chances of turning off an interested target.

Its a numbers game.

Your technique and looks and other factors
may give you a better winning percentage, but even guys with
lame game will win a small percentage of the time. (you can define win
however you want, sex, ltr, fb, whatever)

I think a lot of people on this site have what it takes to win with
girls but they are not going out there and selling enough. They knock
on 1 or 2 doors and want to sell the entire inventory of tupperware,
you gotta hit up many blocks and you'll sell just fine. Just ask Uncle Rico.