I screwed up first date by not kissing her...

This seems to be a problem with the hotter girls. I regularly cold approach, and once every couple of months I get a date with a truly hot (as opposed to cute) girl. Plenty of cute girls to go around, but the 8s and more tricky to snag. Then it seems the likelihood of me screwing up is way higher.

Last night, after multiple attempts over about a month and much flakiness, this girl meets up with me for drinks. I had met her in a bookstore. She said she had a headache even before we met up, but since it was she who texted me and suggested we get together, I still met up with her.

Standard 3-hour drink date, I tell lots of stories, she seems interested, keep her laughing, etc. However, not an overtly sexual vibe. We sat at a table, so kino was somewhat limited. I did touch her arm and back, and put my hand on her thigh several times. But the seating arrangement made it feel awkward to try and keep my hand on her thigh or put my arm around her.

Her headache begins to return by the end of the date. I think she was telling the truth, as that is about the time the Advil should be wearing off.

She was all smiles during the date, and I should have kissed her during our time we were seated, but I just didn't.

It takes a while to get the check and pay. By now her headache is getting worse.

Walk her to her car and she whips out the hug before I can move in for a kiss.

Now I feel like a fool, because I am a big believer in kissing on the first date.

I am guessing I just proceed as usual: wait a couple of days, text her, then try to set up another date. I think the next date will need to be one where a kiss will be easy... mini golf, a club where you stand and/or dance, etc.

Does a chick automatically assume you're a chump if you don't kiss by the end of the first date? I really think the headache was a mitigating factor here, lol.

Also, a more global issue is holding back with the hottest girls. That of course leads to failures with them. I need to correct that.

Thoughts?

Hmmm. I probably would have tried but quite honestly I think she made up her mind about you before you even went on the date. Don't feel bad because it happens to all of us including me.

From your story it sounds like she has a pretty low interest level. Chicks use the "headache" excuse often. I'd say listen to your gut. It's usually the best indicator. It hasn't failed me to this point.

Hang in there...

Originally posted by tihash
Does a chick automatically assume you're a chump if you don't kiss by the end of the first date? I really think the headache was a mitigating factor here, lol.

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No. I have been on plenty of first dates and did not kiss her.

HOWEVER.... thats because the situation either didnt call for it or i didnt WANT to kiss her.

the issue here is that YOU WANTED to kiss her and didnt. its not a huge deal, but if your asking if this chic thinks your a chump for not kissing her by the end of the first date, i would say the fact you wanted to and didnt is the bigger problem. and if she got the impression that you wanted to and didnt doesnt bold well.

Now I feel like a fool, because I am a big believer in kissing on the first date.

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Im not so much concerned with what SHE thinks. Without making any excuses, what is the real reason why you didnt kiss her? you wanted to right? Most of the time what happens is you displayed all "friendly" behavour the entire date, and then set yourself up with the expectations of kissing her... doesnt make much sense.

If she KNEW that you were into her, and not afraid of letting her know this, not just verbally, but physically, a kiss would be implied.

my advice, do whatever it is you want. Dont worry about what she wants, what she thinks, if shes interested in your or not. If she is or isnt, shell let you know. so just have fun. lifes too short. take what you want and make no apologies for it.

dont overanalyze a simple kiss. you focus so much on something so trivial, when there are other things that need more attention.

Thanks for the advice.

What pisses me off is that my time is quite limited. I really think odds are she was into me. But maybe she wasn't. If I went to kiss her and she turned her cheek, I would know not to waste more time pursuing a second date and possibly on the second date.

I guess the proof is in the pudding: if she makes herself free for a second date rather easily, then that says a lot. If it is more of a run-around or flakiness, then that says to not waste more time.

Daven, to answer your question, the "real" reason I didn't kiss her is because in the bar it seemed to me to be easier to kiss her in the parking lot. BUT, when I got to the parking lot, I f-ed up and let her take control by hugging me. By that point I really think she wanted to get out of there, probably because of the headache. She had even remarked it was hurting behind her eye and sh!t.

Standard 3-hour drink date

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Really? That's standard? If she had that bad of headache why the hell did she stay out drinking for 3 hours? Either that's extreme high interest or its let's see if I can get drunk for free before I go bang this other guy. I dunno...just sounds wrong to me.

Daven, to answer your question, the "real" reason I didn't kiss her is because in the bar it seemed to me to be easier to kiss her in the parking lot. BUT, when I got to the parking lot, I f-ed up and let her take control by hugging me. By that point I really think she wanted to get out of there, probably because of the headache. She had even remarked it was hurting behind her eye and sh!t.

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and this doesnt sound like you are putting WAY to much pressure on yourself? over analzying?

it sounds to me that during your "standard 3 hour drink date" you spent too much time "game planning" and setting expectations, instead of just DOING.

to be honest, i dont think she will be going out with you again. if im wrong then good. but either way, next time ACT first. if your on a date, sit next to her, touch her, do whatever you want. she already knows you are into her otherwise you wouldnt be on a date, so go all in brother.

otherwise, youll be sitting here asking yourself why you didnt do what you wanted to do, and if things would have been different.

Warrior-- 2 drinks over 3 hours. Most of my first dates are around that length.

Daven-- I totally hear you. My problem is that I f-up with the really hot ones. I can take a first date with a cute girl pretty smoothly most of the time, and always kiss them (or get a cheek turn, which means I waste no more time on them). With the hot ones, I over-analyze and wind up psyching myself out. Of course, since dates with the hotties are less common than dates with cute girls it always seems like something "special" to be out with a hot one.

I do think you're advice is spot-on. If she comes out again, just go all out. And for the future, go all out every time.

For me a standard first date is 2 hours.
2 drinks in 3 hours is a lot of NOT drinking and too much talking, but that's not the point here.

The point is... you said it took a month to meet this girl.
She texted you to go out and then when she shows up, she tells you right off the bat she has a headache.

She obviously does that in case you creep her out or do something immediately that will disqualify you and she can use that as her instant out.
The fact that she stuck there for 3 hours should have said something to you. Yes, she might have been lonely that night or didn't have anyone else to go out with or whatever, but the point is, you should have amped it up.

And I HATE tables. Tables are for established relationships. They are your enemy of the furniture world.

Once the date came winding down, she told you her headache was getting worse to give you the notion that the date wasn't going to go any further than what it had at that point.

In other words, your chance to "prove yourself to her" was between Point A of "Headache" and Point B. You seemed to fail somewhere in between so she wrapped up the evening nicely with the excuse. Had the night gone differently, I'm sure that excuse wouldn't have been used at Point B.

Problem is, you KNOW what you need to do, but you get intimidated by the higher numbers it seems. Just think of those 9's as 6's. Change your mindset a bit. Remember, some of those 9's sometimes possess more flags than the 7's. Women just like any other and deserve to be treated as such.

CHICAGO27 said:

Hmmm. I probably would have tried but quite honestly I think she made up her mind about you before you even went on the date. Don't feel bad because it happens to all of us including me.

From your story it sounds like she has a pretty low interest level. Chicks use the "headache" excuse often. I'd say listen to your gut. It's usually the best indicator. It hasn't failed me to this point.

Hang in there...

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Here's the thing...she may not have been that INTO him on an emotional level, but if a girl lets me put my hand on her thigh without pulling away, chances are she's attracted on at least a PHYSICAL level.

It's possible that your lack of escalation led to her "headache returning", as she didn't want to spend more time with you if you weren't going to move to close the deal.

A lot of things could've happened there. But I wouldn't sweat it.

THE MISTAKE YOU MADE is caring more about the outcome of this date because the girl was better-looking. Fix that and everything else will fall into place. YOU DESERVE attractive women.

squirrels said:

THE MISTAKE YOU MADE is caring more about the outcome of this date because the girl was better-looking. Fix that and everything else will fall into place. YOU DESERVE attractive women.

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This is absolutely the case. But how can i convince myself of that?

tihash said:

This is absolutely the case. But how can i convince myself of that?

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Why do you feel that you don't deserve attractive women?

tihash said:

This is absolutely the case. But how can i convince myself of that?

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there is no "convincing" , its a FACT.

The reality is, there is absolutely no difference. The only one that cares is YOU. Attractiveness is subjective.

You may be fumbly, nervous, disconnected because you think some chic to be a hb9, and i may find consider her an HB5. why does any of it make a difference?

when you realize that you are WORTH whatever you WANT, i think this will make much more sense. but if you dont believe you are, then this is the dilemna you have

It's funny-- as I sit here, I absolutely believe I am worthy of the hottest girls on earth.

But the reality is, when I am on the date, I just don't take as many risks for fear of messing it up.

It's not like I turn into some fumbling nerd who can't hold a conversation. It manifests itself in things like not kissing when I should. Or, when making out with a girl in the parking lot, not trying to get her back to my place as aggressively as I would with a cute girl who is not as hot.

So maybe I need to realize what I am doing that is holding me back and then just behave as if she were any other girl. But then I might get too much in my head.

It's funny that I used to be like this with cold approaching-- the less cute girls I could approach way more easily than the real hotties. Now, I am over that. In fact, I learned a lot of the time the really hot girls are easier to talk to than the cute girls.

Cute girls are approached more often than the truly gorgeous, hence they tend to give more attitude/resistance. Most cute girls think they are hotter than they are.

You're holding back with the hotter girls because you perceive a higher risk of failure. You perceive that your margin of error is smaller. It's all a perception. Just think about that.

I think you need to find a way to disarm your mindset. Fear sucks! I know a lot of guys who will do just about anything but when it comes down to women freeze up. It's normal. I've been there. The key is being able to put it in perspective, which is what I use to disarm my fear mechanism.
I always use sports analogies when it comes to dating. You are not always going to hit a home run or throw a touchdown pass. Sometimes you are going to throw an INT or strikeout. I've been on over 50 dates in the last year. I have not always succeeded. I've gone down in flames on occasion. I had a date about two months ago where I felt it was the time to try to take it to the next level. I was on my third date with this chick and I wanted to get back to her place for some play. I did everything I could. I initiated contact, held her hand, even blatantly asked her to go back to her place to "watch tv". My strategy did not work that time. She dropped me off at my place at 9:30 PM and gave me some poor excuse that she had to take care of her dog. Heck, I was frustrated. She looked amazing that night, but I know that I tried my best in that situation.
Ask yourself this... Would I rather be some 33 year old guy with someone I am not attracted to or do I want to be with someone who is what I want? That's what I tell myself everyday. Even when I don't succeed I remind myself of this because I know that eventually I will get what I want.

tihash said:

Last night, after multiple attempts over about a month and much flakiness, this girl meets up with me for drinks. I had met her in a bookstore. She said she had a headache even before we met up, but since it was she who texted me and suggested we get together, I still met up with her.

Standard 3-hour drink date, I tell lots of stories, she seems interested, keep her laughing, etc. However, not an overtly sexual vibe. We sat at a table, so kino was somewhat limited. I did touch her arm and back, and put my hand on her thigh several times. But the seating arrangement made it feel awkward to try and keep my hand on her thigh or put my arm around her.

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why did you even feel the need to spend the whole night entertaining her by telling her loads of stories and jokes? did she even return the favor or all she had to do was just to show up looking beautiful? To women, some of you guys just look like little monkeys in funny costumes playing tamborines & jumping through burning hoops while trying your best to entertain them and keep them interested. What happened to her working hard trying to impress or pleasse you?

i mean, if she had a golden vagina or something, then yea, i would bust freaking my ass off trying to keep her entertained but its just regular pu$$y. nothing special about it, whatsoever. So guys, please stop trying to impress women...they are the ones that should be trying really hard to impress us.

tihash said:

I can take a first date with a cute girl pretty smoothly most of the time, and always kiss them (or get a cheek turn, which means I waste no more time on them).

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That's a pretty dumb way of thinking. I have dated girls who give me the cheek turn because they were very interested or they just don't put out like that fast. One girl recently made me wait 3 dates just for a peck on the lips and I finally did bang her.

tihash said:

Last night, after multiple attempts over about a month and much flakiness, this girl meets up with me for drinks.

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Did she bring along her golden diamond encrusted pedestal so that she could preside over the date and speak down to you from on high?
Dude, the date was not a bust because you did not kiss her, it was set up to fail because you probably arrived with a strong sense of relief and gratitude that she finally showed up and you were going to sit near a hottie.

If a girl is flaking on you it means she is not interested. Also the more she flakes and the more you try the faster her level of interest will decline. She will test to see if you are prepared to walk away and sometimes this will involve flaking so you can give her one chance though some say you shouldn't. A girl with high interest will not flake else risk losing you to another girl who is chasing you.

The only reason this girl contacted you after flaking several times was because she was bored.

window said:

If a girl is flaking on you it means she is not interested. Also the more she flakes and the more you try the faster her level of interest will decline. She will test to see if you are prepared to walk away and sometimes this will involve flaking so you can give her one chance though some say you shouldn't. A girl with high interest will not flake else risk losing you to another girl who is chasing you.

The only reason this girl contacted you after flaking several times was because she was bored.

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Yes ^
Beware the woman who is merely looking to be escorted around town and entertained for the evening.