I haven't noticed any threads concerning this subject, but it seems very important.

I think that most of us realize that the economic situation for the American Middle Class is in the midst of a long slow decline. The good middle class jobs that used to out there are just not around anymore as the American Corporation has figured out how to get by without hiring American workers, usually just hiring folks in low wage places like China or India (i.e., "Chindia") or just allowing increased productivity due to computers and automation to shed jobs.

Most economists say that we are in for a long Japan style "lost decade", in which there will be very high rates of unemployment in many middle class fields. Many of us, like yours truly who have been in the front line of outsourced work (software development for myself) have suffered the effects for a few years (I haven't had a good paying gig since 2003, and just finished a Chapter 7 bankruptcy to rid myself of $140K of debt.) And this trend will continue until most intellectual jobs will be outsourced or rendered low wage. I have determined that it is in my best interest to teach English abroad, where the pay is not so good, but where the dating market helps to compensate.

I am wondering what this will do the dating market dynamic. Will the professional women, who have been used to "having it all, baby", revert back to a more traditional role of making it a high priority to secure a man of sufficient means to raise a family? Will women see even college educated men relegated to low income work, and therefore decide to stay unmarried, as is typical in the African American community?

I think in economic times such as this in the US, that women will tend to gravitate more toward the men who are stable and have accumulated more resources. Somebody should write a book called Economics And Dating In America

Danger said:

The one thing that Beta's had going for them was the ability to provide. Now even that is disappearing.

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LUCKILY for them the economy saves them from being able to get married so they don't have to consciously make the smart decision not to marry the sh1tty women that aren't actually attracted to them.

Oh, and you do software and don't have a job?

Do you just refuse to move? Because the job sites are full of postings, and I know a defense contractor that had 5 positions and only got 3 people to interview, and one turned them down to work elsewhere. I was in a meeting where one of their management people asked us to refer people to them if we knew anyone.

My understanding is that the Indian outsourcing is reversing because Indian education is crap and is full of rampant cheating, and the quality of the work is horrible if they even bothered to follow the requirements at all.

The way I see it, when times are good and the money keeps flowing in women think they can stand on their own, raise childs alone, no need for man, etc, they think they can have their cake and eat it too.

However, when the going gets tough I see biological imperatives kicking in and its as simples as this, if a woman wants to have children in very tough economic times, will she be able to make enough money to provide for her and the children alone? that´s the thing, men can have careers and focus on the career, provide, come home to the wife and the kids, and the wife stayed there taking care of the kids, while the man takes care of all of them.

There´s a reason this sociological model was in place in our civilization from like, forever. It wasn´t just some guy that woke up one morning thinking: hey, it´ll be fun to have the wife spend the day at home taking care of the the kids while i´ll go out and bust my ass off.

When the going gets tough we revert to biological imperative, and that says that the men is the one better equiped to go out and hunt and fight the threats, and the woman the one better suited to be stuck with the offspring (breastfeeding is just the most blatant example) that (unlike most species) cant take care of themselves for a few years.

Well, that said, I don´t see most women just giving up on having kids to be "out in the open" taking care of themselves, most will revert to a more traditional model - provided of course things go south in the west like they havent gone since WWII - economically speaking, I´m not even talking about wars. There´s a reason only in the west/westernized places, with some level of economic prosperity, women can get away with this level of feminist crap.... imo.

Radharc said:

The way I see it, when times are good and the money keeps flowing in women think they can stand on their own, raise childs alone, no need for man, etc, they think they can have their cake and eat it too.

However, when the going gets tough I see biological imperatives kicking in and its as simples as this, if a woman wants to have children in very tough economic times, will she be able to make enough money to provide for her and the children alone? that´s the thing, men can have careers and focus on the career, provide, come home to the wife and the kids, and the wife stayed there taking care of the kids, while the man takes care of all of them.

There´s a reason this sociological model was in place in our civilization from like, forever. It wasn´t just some guy that woke up one morning thinking: hey, it´ll be fun to have the wife spend the day at home taking care of the the kids while i´ll go out and bust my ass off.

When the going gets tough we revert to biological imperative, and that says that the men is the one better equiped to go out and hunt and fight the threats, and the woman the one better suited to be stuck with the offspring (breastfeeding is just the most blatant example) that (unlike most species) cant take care of themselves for a few years.

Well, that said, I don´t see most women just giving up on having kids to be "out in the open" taking care of themselves, most will revert to a more traditional model - provided of course things go south in the west like they havent gone since WWII - economically speaking, I´m not even talking about wars. There´s a reason only in the west/westernized places, with some level of economic prosperity, women can get away with this level of feminist crap.... imo.

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I agree. In old school patriarchies, men rule their women with an iron fist.

Here is an idea...what if in this shrinking economy, with more women graduating from college than men, and with women pushing for federally legislated price fixing on wages, I think you will see men here either become more jersey shore hyper masculine doing crap jobs and crime, or going overseas, or trying to find new ways to start their own business using outsourcing as well.

Maybe instead of outsourcing American jobs to import higher marked up products, we should outsource american women and import women?

I've read that what we're seeing is a "globalization of wages." Basically we're going to see wages come down in wealthy countries such as the U.S., Canada, Western Europe etc. and an increase in wages in poorer countries. Basically, wages are going to even out a little around the world whereas now, there is a concentration of high wages in relatively few countries.

It will probably mean that the future generations of Westerners (particularly Americans) will have to live a little less lavishly. There will be fewer massive houses and gigantic SUVs with 6 liter V8s etc. Fewer people will be able to afford the lifestyle that a large number of Americans presently enjoy (albeit through taking on a lot of debt).

I'd guess it will greatly increase the value of successful men. Very wealthy men of course have it good today and will always have it that way. But until this recent economic collapse, middle class men could provide decently well for their families. Now that they won't have the means to do so, there will be a higher premium placed on wealth.

I just wonder when the current 1st world prices are going to correct to match the 3rd world wages? I think the future is going to be like the recent only worse. Less people getting married, less people have kids and less kids. More ONS, STRs, the wealthy will have their harems of attractive women they date and provide employment. The average guy will have infrequent sex with the females the rich don't want.

History says that it'll be the return of the harems and concubines for the rich & powerful, and prostitution or going without for the rest of the blokes.

Stagger Lee said:

I just wonder when the current 1st world prices are going to correct to match the 3rd world wages? I think the future is going to be like the recent only worse. Less people getting married, less people have kids and less kids. More ONS, STRs, the wealthy will have their harems of attractive women they date and provide employment. The average guy will have infrequent sex with the females the rich don't want.

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In times of consistent economic hardship the healthy tend to be more extremely wealthy, and the means either the ppl who control the resources or the financial system to some extent, you dont tend to see a very large upper middle class of "wealthy" ppl. And the thing is, the really wealthy ppl tend to focus on keeping the wealth in the family trough the generations and in order to do that they tend to favour conservative lifestyles, and that shifts away from this "party all the time, life is an harem and I have to behave like a spoiled celebrity" life perspective a lot of ppl have nowadays.

So I suppose we would be looking at a more restrict and socially closed group of very wealthy ppl, while the others will have to focus more on just getting along the best they can, like they allways had. More stable relationships because the liabilities of doing otherwise are too great, perhaps.

Sometimes I see this lifestyle of abundance for the masses, of our times, as a fluke in history, it has NEVER been like this before, and there´s really no guarantee it´ll stay this way. Lets hope so though.

Futurology is allways fun.