Point to Having Kids?

So, it seems that anytime someone tries to give me advice, I suddenly get it from a bunch of people by the truckloads.

This past week I got a LOT of comments from different people in my life about "avoiding having children".

As I'm approaching my year #30, it seems that there are a lot of men out there, my age, that are desperate to engage in a marriage and children. The question is: Why?

I was basically told by someone really close to me, to wait and hold out as long as I could, and if possible, to NEVER have kids if it can be avoided and if I could be with someone who agreed with such a viewpoint. The person that said this to me, has kids, loves the kids, but said that the many reasons they've heard over the years as to why to have kids, is pretty much BS. Here are some of the things I've heard for having kids:

(1) To be able to continue to leave some sort of legacy
(2) To have someone to take care of you when you are much older
(3) To give meaning to your life

I'ev heard others, but those 3 seemed to be the most consistent.
Now, I've been left baffled, because quite frankly, each of those three can be debunked easily. Maybe it's because I've yet to have a kid of my own, but why is it considered important to leave a legacy behind? I don't understand the point to this. Isn't the legacy we leave behind... just OUR LIVES and not the children we leave behind?

As for point #2, it was discussed that with the money you save from NOT having kids over the course of your life, you could easily hire a personal nurse when you get older. I never thought of NOT having kids as "Savings" but it makes perfect sense to me. Every year parents spend thousands upon thousansd on their children... and not that they regret it, but how many of these parents engage in this purposefully?

And point #3 was just kind of sad. Do we really need children to give meaning to our lives? Can't we do that by ourselves?


I apologize if my post comes across as apparent negativity towards having kids, but it just seems like there is no "benefit" to having children on purpose. More and more I just see cases of unwanted pregnancies and mistakes and accidents.

Is there anyone on this board that actually PLANNED out this step that could chime in on this subject?

Does anyone think there's a true reason to have children?

Re:

Your reasons are logical, and I respect that. Making children is about creating the ultimate in a union of love with someone you care about. I have some friends who truly have their 'soulmate', as much as that is pew-pewed here.

These are couples where the wife is ok with the man doing as he wants, the man realizes this, and picks his family over most else. She is a woman that takes care of herself and the household and truly does support him through the ups and downs.

The women most guys here are 'gaming' are not marriage worthy. They are often girls who are selling themselves out to the highest bidder, in terms of looks, income and other variables. They are also women that require alot of maintenance, so instead of GIVING to the relationship or household, she needs to be given to. Alot of these women have been very promiscuous and instead of using their youth to build themselves, they squandered it away on clubbing, drinking, and banging. If they were paid for what they do, you might liken them to pornstars on various websites, since that's essentially what pornstars do.

Compare most of the females of our generation to those of 1-2 prior. Do those females put themselves first? Did they not learn how to tend to a home and actually find joy in that? Did they not view their partnership as a 'team', rather than ownership or him vs. her?

It's no wonder most men wouldn't want to bed down and create a home with modern day women (or men). Men are hardly honorable today either. They want to f!uck, but they don't want to committ. They ask the most of a woman (which she gladly gives), but he doesn't give back. Kids today want fun, without sacrifice, work, committment or consequences. But we don't question it because this is the 'fish bowl' we live in - it's everywhere, so it's not ABNORMAL. However, this does not make it right.

Most people are unfit to be parents, to be banging, or raise children. They selfish, laden with baggage and other mental deficiencies. The grandparents that bore the babyboomers sacrificied, as did some of our own parents. Our generation doesn't want to, but will be forced to as jobs decline, as education skyrockets, and as income growth slows. If you go the college route, it will require a highly specialized and technical degree OR you will need to go on to higher schools of learning to have value. Liberal arts and business degrees, except from all but the best schools, will be as generic as going to HS now.

A time of change must come, either we accept it and face it head on, do what needs to be done and become a stronger generation, or we get washed over and be laughed at the world around. I kid you not.

Would I have kids?

Absolutely. If I found that devoted woman, lover, and friend with whom I could truly trust above friends and family, yes. I realize in the end it's only me and I know the statistics and the consequences, but to me, alot of men tried to make *****s into housewives.

I know a girl that recently separated. She dated a man for a few years and they married. They were married only 1 year. There was however a HUGE red flag: her best friend was a man that was always around and he was part of HER wedding party. This male friendship dated back YEARS and the husband allowed it. Needless to say, one year into the marriage the wife decides "this isn't fun." Marriage won't always be fun, but it can be rewarding, if two people are on the same path and of the same mindset, but you can't divert a dating situation that is 'fun' into a marriage which is like work, business, and takes effort and energy. You can't make a ***** into a housewife that enjoys her GLAM-FACEBOOK-TWITTER lifestyle MORE than true, spiritual, loving, committment.

And infatuation isn't LOVE.

I am on the back side of 30 and do not have kids. Has my life suffered because of it? Absolutely not! No where close has my life suffered not having kids. When I was younger kids crossed my mind and a few years ago a girl whom I loved said she aborted my child and I will never know if she was telling the truth.

So many people and more so in women use their kids to define their lives. You are right, my life has meaning without the kids.

Do not have them just to fit in with the perceived norm. Only time I may regret being childless is when and if I need help when I am older. Otherwise, they would have been a huge burden to me as I like my routine.

I always hate seeing a woman use the saying, "My kids are my life." That just means to me that you will never be on her top priority list. Now parents should treat their kids well and be proud, but I have seen some that really go over board with it. Especially the ones that live life through their kids.

Like some have pointed out, if I found a woman worth it and I DO MEAN worth it, then I would probably be more open to the idea.

A-Unit said it all, pretty much.

Take a look at these three reasons:

(1) To be able to continue to leave some sort of legacy
(2) To have someone to take care of you when you are much older
(3) To give meaning to your life

Click to expand...

Notice anything about these reasons? Perhaps how SELFISH they all are??

There's also the ones that people DON'T talk about because of how much more OBVIOUSLY selfish they are, such as #4 - My friends all have kids and I want to have something to talk about with them and #5 - The relationship is boring and we need something to do.

Indeed, a mother-worthy woman is rare in modern society. And so is a father-worthy man.

I think about the idea of having kids at time and I'd be game for maybe ONE. IF I could find a woman who WANTED to be a mother, who was WORTHY of being one.

You know what disgusts me a LOT....when I go out in public places and there are people dragging their kids around who look like they want NOTHING more than to get away from them. Sure, you love them when you're having fun and showing them off to your friends, but when that's not happening they're "baggage" to you? Swine.

I know me well enough to know I'm not ready to be a father. I'm not ruling it out...I just know that I still have life of my own to live and don't think I would be able to give the kind of attention to a child that it deserves.

Maybe as I "mature" I'll learn to think differently. Maybe if I can find a woman who isn't a total ditz, I'll learn to think differently.

Most people SHOULDN'T breed.

squirrels said:

A-Unit said it all, pretty much.


Most people SHOULDN'T breed.

Click to expand...

That right there is the damn truth! The crux of our problems in society. If you mix bad genes, whatcha gonna get? A freaking mut and dredge on society. Then throw in some addictions with already messed up gene pool and it makes it much worse.

Re:

Hi squirrels!

Glad to meet up in a forum!

I'm bAAACCCCCCCk

Hope all is well with you.

A-Unit said:

Hi squirrels!

Glad to meet up in a forum!

I'm bAAACCCCCCCk

Hope all is well with you.

Click to expand...

Pretty good.

I've been "out" of the game for a while, mainly because my two best previous tail-lines have been cut...MySpace sucks now and I'm under PBJ for a DUI until October and can't drink (so no bars).

I can't seem to motivate myself to do anything except ride my motorcycle, hit the gym, go rock-climbing...women seem to have fallen down the list pretty far. My brother just got married and my sister had her first baby, so I'm feeling a LITTLE left-behind...just wondering what the hell to do to get my life un-stalled. I'd like to have a kid one day, but I don't feel like I'm moving in that direction. I don't feel like I'm moving in ANY direction.

Trying to keep the response in-line with the thread topic. It's good to see you around...you always had some of the best posts on this forum.

A more important question to ask would be why did your parents have kids. Maybe that has something to do with your outlook on the situation. Personally as a father and a son, I have no problem with children, if they are for the right reasons.

(1) To be able to continue to leave some sort of legacy
(2) To have someone to take care of you when you are much older
(3) To give meaning to your life

Click to expand...

1 and 2 are valid to a certian extent, but only as an after thought for me personally. A man has children because that's what happens when you have sex, its just been the human way until recently. Men had sons to continue their name and the linage. To cosolidate power, to have hands to help work the farm. There are tons of reasons men have children. Validity is in the eye of the beholder. Three is a woman's reason.

Warrior, that's what gets me.
A lot of the people that advised me to just NOT have kids, where people that years ago were asking me:

"So when are you going to have a child?"
"When are you getting married?"
"When are you going to get serious about your life and start a family?"

Now, I'm hearing the opposite.
One of these people is a part of family nucleus and it was just surprising. The person asked me that if I wanted to have kids, why would I have them.

I had no answer.

As of right now, I have an ALMOST neutral view on this situation, but more towards leaning to the "Not having kids" side of the spectrum. It just seemed like logistically and economically, it's better to NOT have kids and just plan for an eventual retirement. Of course, to be able to find a woman who AGREES is another quest all in itself.

I just have yet to find a reason to actually PLAN having a child. I think it's more to do with what some of the other posters have said, most parents see their children as a HASSLE.

"Oh I haven't seen a movie in a theatre in years because I have children."
"Oh can't go out anymore, don't have anyone to watch the kids."

So on and so forth. Yet for each one of those, I do find people who are VERY happy with their children, but I guess I'd never really thought about whether they had PLANNED it to have children or it just "happened". If it were to have been planned, would they had gone through it anyway?

I know I've seen you and backbreaker post in the past about how you'd take a day with your son/daughter over a week full of women at the club, but other than being an event that Mother Nature has enforced upon human beings, is there a point to having them?

Maybe for me it's different now because I live in a generation where almost everyone who has a child, has been a product of an "accident".

Re:

As it relates to kids...and this thread...and what you posted...

30 is definitely an odd time, but a great one. I have witnessed young marriages collapse, new marriages thrive, and 50 year married couples admit to infidelity despite being married 25 years. They say the times don't change, the people do, but the people just live the same cycle of life over and over. We just seem to think 'this time is different' because it's us, when most of us will end up learning or not learning that which our forebears hopefully did.

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Sorry to hear about your DUI, mate. It's good to read that you can still do the things you love.

The funny thing I always experienced about 'girls' was that...if they don't happen in the normal course of my life, it probably won't be very good. Like just the other night I was out with family and friends @ some spots in Boston, having a good time, no intention of meeting women and they came up to me/us.

It's funny, because some people might try to 'create' a system from such situations, trying to 'meet women', when there is no system, it's just do whatever is in the moment. All the mental masturbation that this site and any book can convey won't replace in the moment training. It does prepare you mentally, to a point, but after that life's just too damn short to care about fear or be inhibited by those internal nay-saying demons. I say f!uck 'em!

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Trust your gut on what to do. How many times have looked back on life, not trusted it and wished you had? I know I have many times, and in the end it normally panned out ok.

You're the 'winning sperm' of billions of possibilities! Richard Dawkins said something similar. We are truly the winning lottery ticket. If we aren't 'given' a purpose, we owe it to ourselves and all those who will never get this chance to GIVE OURSELVES purpose, meaning and life, while we are hear, as brief and wonderful as life is.

Dig down deeper into what you love. Experience what you fear. Confront your fears and conquer them, and only you will remain standing, atop a pile of decimated fears and anxieties!

Kailex said:

Warrior, that's what gets me.
A lot of the people that advised me to just NOT have kids, where people that years ago were asking me:

"So when are you going to have a child?"
"When are you getting married?"
"When are you going to get serious about your life and start a family?"

Now, I'm hearing the opposite.
One of these people is a part of family nucleus and it was just surprising. The person asked me that if I wanted to have kids, why would I have them.

I had no answer.

As of right now, I have an ALMOST neutral view on this situation, but more towards leaning to the "Not having kids" side of the spectrum. It just seemed like logistically and economically, it's better to NOT have kids and just plan for an eventual retirement. Of course, to be able to find a woman who AGREES is another quest all in itself.

I just have yet to find a reason to actually PLAN having a child. I think it's more to do with what some of the other posters have said, most parents see their children as a HASSLE.

"Oh I haven't seen a movie in a theatre in years because I have children."
"Oh can't go out anymore, don't have anyone to watch the kids."

So on and so forth. Yet for each one of those, I do find people who are VERY happy with their children, but I guess I'd never really thought about whether they had PLANNED it to have children or it just "happened". If it were to have been planned, would they had gone through it anyway?

I know I've seen you and backbreaker post in the past about how you'd take a day with your son/daughter over a week full of women at the club, but other than being an event that Mother Nature has enforced upon human beings, is there a point to having them?

Maybe for me it's different now because I live in a generation where almost everyone who has a child, has been a product of an "accident".

Click to expand...

Yah that's the Herd talking. They are in the sh1t and expect youto get down in it too. Do what you want to do. That's my point..all reasons are valid if they are what you really want. If you don't want them, that doesn't make you any better or any less than anyone else with kids. It just is. Fvck what everyone else says or their reasons. Your reasons are your own. And your reasons are valid. As long as you are happy with it..who cares! Anyone who has the gall to tell you one way or another what you should do in regards to children, I would consider suspect. Both those with and without children. Especially from this forum where most guys are still in their 30s and have had limited life experience with women.

For most men these days, I doubt they would ever have children if they waited until they were ready and planned for one. The Way (as pook called it) is gone. Most men are not following the way (school, job, marriage, kids retirement, death), but are going their own way. Most aren't forging ahead though...most are just slacking and playing video games and chasing barsluts. Very few have any vision and are putting that mass amount of time to any good use.

Sage Kailex, I am young as hell and I am not looking to have kids anytime soon. My dad didn't have me until he was 38 and my mom was 31.

About your question too Kailex:
It seems that there are a lot of men out there, my age, that are desperate to engage in a marriage and children. The question is: Why?

Guys who are your age are desperate to engage in a marriage and have kids are ususlly those willing to settle and want a sense of security and fulfillment of being a man. I know guys who had no girlfriends before meeting their first in college, then getting married upon graduation! Probably because they were insecure and figured it might be months or years for those men to get another date or girlfriend.

Here's the first thing I understand about these 3 reasons. They're all selfish indeed!

(1) To be able to continue to leave some sort of legacy
The man is to leave a legacy, he doesn't need children to do that. You only live once. Originate your legacy, and if you have children, maybe they'll follow in your footsteps.

(2) To have someone to take care of you when you are much older
Provided you get there. Tomorrow ain't promised to anybody.

(3) To give meaning to your life
Here again, only YOU give meaning to your life. Women and children are (or at least should be) secondary to a man's life.

I don't want children. That makes me no less of a man than the one who fathered the octomom's children.

But only time will tell. If I get a woman who loves me, I MAY have children with her. This is not etched in stone, however. It's much harder to find a woman who doesn't want children. To me, having a child is like owning a S-class Benz for 18 years. Child support, day cares, baby food, etc. etc. God damn. Too much for me.

Years ago, it was all about getting married and settling down and having kids. These days, women are having kids as young as 13 and single women our age have kids! I'm not into raising anybody else's child. Not my fancy.

Alas, have children if YOU want to. If you want a child in your life, do it. If not, then don't. To each his own. That's my ruling.

Case closed.

and that is why A unit is the best on this forum. glad to have you back my man.

I have a child and I think I am pretty damn good father. I think his mother is a damn good mother. I have had two abortions to date however becuase i refuse to have children raised by those women.


had I had my child when I was 3 years earlier (I had him when i was a week away from being 25) I would have been a horrible father. Even so it took some adjusting. yes your kids ARE your life. I mean I have a life of my own but my sons needs will always come first.

Most importantly, I **** women, what i am more concerned about a man and his ambitions. children are ambition killers, and moreso when you have a bad wife / woman by your side. I did most of my damage financially before my child was born. I was able to take risks, do things becuase I did not care how it would effect ME< i can deal with it and whoever I was dating at the time could just suck it up or move on, but now it's different.

i'm thinking very hard of selling my web business. To be frank i don't want to do it anymore and to be 100% honest, had this been 3 years go i would have sold it already. It's not even the money, i have enough, but it's the security of knowing i have X amount coming in every month. i dont' want to sale it and regret it later down the line. do i sale, take the money and put in the stock market in this economy with the ay things are going? or do I keep drawing the check and putting it in the bank. Do I keep doing somehting I really don't want to do, even though I don't need to in reality if it all boiled down to it, for the sake of my son, or do I do what I really want to do. that's the question i am currently asking myself.

I'm finding myself thinking 2-4 times before doing my thing financially now with a son. Bec uase everything I do effects him. While I won't go out of my way to spoil him he will be taken care of and he will have a nice roof over his head and good clothes on his back, and his schooling will be taken care of. now, my job in life is to make sure that he has everything he will need to succeed. nothing else in the grand scheme of things matters. While i still have lofty dreams and ambitions and have every intention of hitting them, it is different with a child.



I

My son, who I had when I was 20, is such an amazing source of inspiration to me, motivation to be a better man. his simple Existance makes me happier than anything else ever would.

All of you sitting here discussing the fiscal/moral/lifestyle/mother issues are missing the big point, that fatherhood can be one of the most, if not THE most rewarding thing a man does in his entire life.

Mods feel free to delete this as I'm only 22, but I feel as a father I have something of worth to contribute on this occasion.

Cure.

For ****s and giggles.

Nah in all seriousness, it's with it's difficulties but I imagine it's still pretty fun and exciting. I mean, when else in your whole life could you experience something like being a parent? That parent-child relationship is pretty unique, and being in someone's life from when they were a tiny ball of cells to a fully grown adult, watching them grow, pretty amazing...and the responsibility of the influence you have over them as a person is kind of scary when you think about it. But yeah, it would be a laugh too, I'm the oldest of a big family and kids are pretty funny, and they surprise you. I think generally you can learn a lot from them and being a parent, I'm not a parent myself but I have noticed this just as being a big sister. I've always been pretty certain that with the nature vs nurture debate, nurture has more influence, but when my mum recently had unidentical twins I was amazed at how different their personalities were at such a young age. And of course its not just about having kids for the sake of it, for a lot of people its about having kids and sharing that experience with a particular person.


At the end of the day, if you want kids then have them, if you don't then don't.

Would I be wrong in saying that most men have kids, because they couldn't say no to their wife or that an "accident" happened?

Women have a very strong maternal instinct. So I'd say in the vast majority of the times, it's the woman pushing to have kids. The man just goes along with it.

Of course, how he thinks about having kids, will most likely change once he actually has one.

Warrior74 said:

Most aren't forging ahead though...most are just slacking and playing video games and chasing barsluts. Very few have any vision and are putting that mass amount of time to any good use.

Click to expand...

I feel you on this. That's how I feel most of the time...like I'm just not going anywhere. I don't know how one finds 'vision'.

I have a lot of casual ideas, but never anything that truly grabs me by the collar. No "calling", so to speak...nothing I look forward to when I wake up in the morning.

CuriousGirl said:

For ****s and giggles.

Nah in all seriousness, it's with it's difficulties but I imagine it's still pretty fun and exciting. I mean, when else in your whole life could you experience something like being a parent? That parent-child relationship is pretty unique, and being in someone's life from when they were a tiny ball of cells to a fully grown adult, watching them grow, pretty amazing...

Click to expand...

I'd think if anything, this is a pretty good reason to have a kid.

squirrels said:

I feel you on this. That's how I feel most of the time...like I'm just not going anywhere. I don't know how one finds 'vision'.

I have a lot of casual ideas, but never anything that truly grabs me by the collar. No "calling", so to speak...nothing I look forward to when I wake up in the morning.



I'd think if anything, this is a pretty good reason to have a kid.

Click to expand...

I feel you. That was one on the things Player Supreme would focus on, finding your purpose in life, but I could never figure out what that was for me. But I did come up with a goal. And my goal is to be debt free. It's enough to get me up in the morning and working late at night. I figure I'll find my purpose along the way. Once I'm debt free, I may have the breathing room to really focus on what my purpose is when it comes to me. Who can say?

Find a goal. Something you want to do and live for that for now...after that, find another one. What is one thing you always wanted to do but never had the balls, or guts to attempt? Test yourself. My goal, debt free, 10% body fat. Serious challenges considering my debt and current body fat percentage.

Warrior74 said:

I feel you. That was one on the things Player Supreme would focus on, finding your purpose in life, but I could never figure out what that was for me. But I did come up with a goal. And my goal is to be debt free. It's enough to get me up in the morning and working late at night. I figure I'll find my purpose along the way. Once I'm debt free, I may have the breathing room to really focus on what my purpose is when it comes to me. Who can say?

Find a goal. Something you want to do and live for that for now...after that, find another one. What is one thing you always wanted to do but never had the balls, or guts to attempt? Test yourself. My goal, debt free, 10% body fat. Serious challenges considering my debt and current body fat percentage.

Click to expand...

When I think of a "purpose", I think of a calling, something I can leave to this world. But it'd have to be something I loved...and that would sustain me.

Right now, everything I love doing is a money-pit and some of them have nearly killed me, probably on more occasions than I'd like to admit.

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Back on-topic...the one thought that REALLY discourages me from having kids is the cost of a college education.

Regardless of what you think about institutionalized education, people just don't take you seriously in this world unless you've got at least a Bachelors degree. Paying college tuition/fees/books, though, is like a second mortgage.

You need a certain kind of affluence to be able to afford to raise a kid, afford to send it to college, and still live any kind of life for yourself.

when we found out my fiancee was pregnant with my son we did some rough numbers, and after about a week worth of figuring we came up with a ball park of about two fiddy large over a childs life span. from day care to private school to trips to Disneyland to a first car to doctor bills to school, to the money you iknow your kid is going to need when they get out of school and are on their own.


that number could very well double depending on what college he gets into.



to make My personal matters worse, my little sister's dad is a dead beat piece of **** and event hough my mom and i don't talk i pay her private school tutiation and have for the last year, when he wanted to put her in a public chool becuase "he could not afford it" when in reality it was just cramping his style, h'e drahter by clothes then make sure his daughter is well schooled and the sad thing is, she is smart as ****, i don't' say that like "oh can do this or that" no she's really, really, really smart. some school will pay for her schooling in the future smart. not the kinda kid you skimp out on their education on. she's 10 and speaks fluent and i mean fluent Spanish. that's what you get when you go to the right school which she was and is in and what he wanted to take her out of.




anyway