Imagination

From Roissy's most recent post:
http://roissy.wordpress.com/2010/05/26/two-words-women-love-to-hear/

"And you know girls love mystery, so they’re not going to ruin a good mystery by trying to solve it."

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This is the take-home message. A woman's imagination is the single most useful tool in your Game arsenal. Every technique, every casual response, every gesture, intimation and subcommunication hinges on stimulating her imagination. Competition anxiety relies on it. DHV relies on it. Sexual tension (gina tingles) relies on it.

This is the single greatest failing of average frustrated chumps; they vomit out everything about themselves, divulging the full truth of themselves to women in the mistaken belief that women desire that truth as a basis for qualifying for their intimacy. Learn this now: Women NEVER want full disclosure. Nothing is more self-satisfying for a woman than to think she's figured a Man out based solely on her feminine intuition (i.e. imagination).

When a man overtly confirms his character, his story, his value, etc. for a woman, the mystery is dispelled and the bio-chemical rush she enjoyed from her imaginings, her suspicions, her self-confirmations about you are GONE. AFCs classically do exactly this on the first date and wonder why they get LJBF'd promptly after it - this is why. Familiarity is anti-seductive. Nothing kills Game, lust and libido like comfortable familiarity. Despite their common bleating filibuster tactics, women don't want to be comfortable with a potential sex partner, they need their imaginations stoked to be excited, aroused and anxious to want sex with a potential partner.

Major co-sign here.

If there's no intrigue, there's no fireworks. Problem is that we are socially conditioned to avoid tension, the single most useful tool for stimulating that wonderful imagination. This is why nice guys will always finish last - they fail to understand that what women want is us NOT giving them what they want (at least not right away)

Never heard of this Roissy fella, thanks for the tip bro

Okay, that sounds good in the short term. What about long term relationships? And women supposedly DO want LTRs, yes? At some point they're going to get to know you. They'll never know all your innermost thoughts of course, but they're going to get to know you. What then?

zekko, in my experience what works well is to not give 100% of yourself away. In a healthy relationship you should have your own personal space, friends and yes - some secrets. Women lose respect for guys who are at their beck and call, whose whole world revolves around them.

My aunt and uncle have been married for 30 years now and are still madly in love. Their secret? Each of them still gives the gift of missing each other. She has her book club and nature hikes with the girlfriends and he's got poker nights and far too many hobbies to list here.

So it is possible to keep the intrigue factor up, though it will never compare to the initial phases of mystery - I think its foolish to expect or even wish for such a thing. It's only natural for people to reach a comfort zone together, and for the butterflies to lose some of their swirling madness. But that dont mean the excitement has to die.

As long as you are growing and reinventing yourself, you still give a woman plenty to discover.

This post should be sticky'd.

The more you are likely to make a woman curious about you (and thus think about you) the more you are likely to make her aroused.

With nice guys they are just that, plain, uimaginative and boring thus women imagine that the sex will probably be the same.

It's complicated

Indeed. This is another reason that LDR girls who are branch-swinging get into you so fast. The poor bf, she knows everything about him and the honeymoon's over, but you're the untameable dark horse. When I was younger, these girls would blindside me, and I can now see all the common factors.

This is also another reason that I couldn't see myself getting married; it seems like inevitable death of interest and frame battles, which leads to all kinds of sh!tty behavior and bs in my life. How can I build an empire saddled with so much dead weight?

I commend married men who do keep the frame in this day and age, whoever you are.

But yes, mystery is gold.

zekko said:

Okay, that sounds good in the short term. What about long term relationships? And women supposedly DO want LTRs, yes? At some point they're going to get to know you. They'll never know all your innermost thoughts of course, but they're going to get to know you. What then?

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What happens then indeed? Good point Zeek.

In an LTR, your opportunities to create mystery, intrigue and anxiety in her would appear to be limited, if not almost extinguished.
However, women live in a world of anxiety of their own creation, mostly. Thsy seem to prefer agonizing and handwringing rather than enjoying the conditions and advantages of living in the present.
Anxiety is all about what MIGHT happen - it is living in the future, rather that living in the NOW .

So why not keep her on her toes about the future and your plans. Only disclose limited informati9ns about finances, mainly yours.. be vague and obscure about your longterm commiiment to her. Let her know that you find other women ---'interesting '...and so on.

It works for me.

zekko said:

Okay, that sounds good in the short term. What about long term relationships?

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In an LTR there's an even more critical need to keep prodding that imagination. I would go so far as to say it's imperative for a healthy relationship, but then you'll ask, how do you go about that when your LTR GF or wife already knows your story and the familiarity becomes cemented in?

The easy answer is never let it be from the outset - the health of any LTR you might entertain depends and survives on the frame you enter into it with. The foundations of a healthy LTR are laid while you're single and dating non-exclusively. I've yet to meet the guy who's told me he's getting more frequent, more intense sex after his LTR / Marriage / Live-in situation was established. The primary reason for this is the relaxation of the competition anxiety that made ƒucking you with lustful abandon in your dating phase an imperative to get you to commit to her frame. And that's the crux of the matter that so many guys fail in, they surrender the frame BEFORE they commit to an LTR. They believe, (thanks to their Matrix conditioning) that commitment is synonymous with acquiescing to her frame control. Combine this with anti-seductive familiarity and the growing commonness of your own value because of it, and you can see exactly why her sexual interest wanes.

So what do you do to prevent that? First and foremost, understand that whose frame you enter into an LTR sets the foundation of that LTR. If you find yourself buying into an "it's women's world and we just live in it" mentality where your default presumption is that commitment means she wins, you lose and that's just how it is, don't even consider an LTR. She enters your world, not the other way around.

Secondly, you need to cultivate an element of unpredictability about yourself prior to, and into, an LTR. Always remember POOK's proverb, Perfect is BORING. Women will cry a river about wanting Mr. Dependable and then go off to ƒuck Mr. Exciting. In an LTR it's necessary to be both, but not one at the expense of the other. Too many married men are TERRIFIED to rock the excitement boat with their wives because their sex lives hang in the balance of placating to her and her already preset frame. She must be reminded daily why you're fun, unpredictable and exciting, not only to her, but other women as well. This requires covertly implying that other women find you desirable. Women crave the chemical rush that comes from suspicion and indignation. If you don't provide it, they'll happily get it from tabloids, romance novels, The View, Tyra Banks or otherwise living vicariously through their single girlfriends.

By playfully staying her source of that rush you maintain the position of stimulating her imagination. Married men, who were defeated before they committed, don't think that elements of Game apply to marriage out of fear of upsetting their wives frame, when in fact C&F and Negs and many other aspects work wonderfully. Just kicking her in the ass or busting her chops, playfully, is sometimes enough to send the message that you're fearless of her response. You can break her frame with ****iness and the imaginings that come with it.

Breaking from an established, predictable familiarity is often a great way to fire her imagination. Married guys will report how sexual their wives become after they get to the gym and start shaping up after a long layoff (or for the first time). It's easy to pass this off as looking better makes women more aroused (which is true), but underneath that is the breaking of a pattern. You're controllable and predictable so long as you're pudgy and listless - what other woman would want you? But start changing your patterns, get into shape, make more money, get a promotion, improve and demonstrate your higher value in some appreciable way and the imagination and competition anxiety returns.

So why not keep her on her toes about the future and your plans. Only disclose limited informati9ns about finances, mainly yours.. be vague and obscure about your longterm commiiment to her. Let her know that you find other women ---'interesting '...and so on.

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I've never been one to flaunt other women to my LTR. She's well aware I could get another girl if I wanted, she doesn't need me to tell her. Sometimes she will perceive someone as a threat and she will ask me about her. My response is usually "Nah, I could do better than that".

to get women, you have to learn to speak their language, and the language is covert.

Julius_Seizeher, you need to read what napolean hill has to say about the master mind principle.

pepole either drag you down or really, really build you up. the key to marriage is not how hot a woman looks (i mean it helps) or how good she is in the sack but does she actually ADD value to your life. it's no different than a business partner.

I have a world class graphic designer for my company and when I say world class I literary mean world class. The guy is just sick with what he can do, done major magazine ads for comapines like sun and cisco and different **** like that, but he could not get constant, steady work because he's not a salesman. he draws. I had some decent graphic people but nothing great, but i can sale a chasity ring to a hooker.

Our coming together has literally, doubled both our incomes, close to tripled as far as this business has concerned. more people are interested in our work when they see what we can dog graphically. moreso, the "what can you do this for" or "I only have a budget of this" goes out the window. clients are now actually thankful we are working for them and will pay what the hell i tell them to pay. I'm turning away business now. This guy in turn, literarly I wrote him a 14k check last month for his work he did last month. he's not doing too bad lol. That does not includet he side work he does. We agreed on a flat rate per project that he was to be paid and i just now budget for it and i cut him a check at the end of the month.

i needed graphics, he needed steady income. We are both happy


marriage is the same way. I used to think alot like you as far as marriage then I met my fiancee. She is my master mind. not only is she as cute as a button, and an excellent mother, she wants what I want in life, and she makes me a better overall person. She is on my ass in the morning when I'm not at the gym, not becuase she wants to still be able to call her man hot (that's part too ) but she can tell from the times i talked about it in my life, just how much I hated being overweight and she refuses to let me go through that again.

When I tell her hey I'm going to be up all night working instead of pitching a ***** or trying to talk me out of it, she will make me some hot cocoa and a sandwich. She knows why I work the way I do.

We think so much a like, I have literary not had to plan out my own day in about a year now. i wake up and i have a basic ternary of what I need to do sitting on the kitchen table, broken down into 5 minute intervals. babe does not play any games lol. Her job is to make me as productive as possible.

We went to go look at a new car about 2 months ago. She won't ask for antyhing but i can tell she had been eyeing a certain car so one day we were out for ice cream with our son and i said **** it let's go look at it. We got in the car and you could just see her eyes light up. she test drove it. She even kept it overnight. I had pretty much decided to pull the trigger if they would do X and X. I sold cars and I knew what i was asking for was somewhat pushing it, somewhat, not out of the question but something they would have to really think about. We didn't need the car hell we have 3.

When the salesman said nope, she didn't blink one eye, she gave him the keys back and we walked out. I have enough money in my savings account to buy that car 20x over.. not once did she ask me to dip in my savings account.. money that she knows what I am saving for, so she can endoulge for something she wants. she knows what the end game is and in the end, she knows she will get her car, just not at that very moment.


As far as being covert with women i'm quiet by nature, I say as little as possible. The more she has to figure out the better.

Rollo Tomassi said:

Women crave the chemical rush that comes from suspicion and indignation. If you don't provide it, they'll happily get it from tabloids, romance novels, The View, Tyra Banks or otherwise living vicariously through their single girlfriends.

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THis is a great point, and one poorly understood by men generally.
It explains why women behave in ways that often make no sense to us.
I know (and have known) several women who stayed in relationships in which the guys cheated, treated her poorly, refused to commit and generally jerked the women around. Did those women walk away - no they stayed until the end .
They stayed until HE eventually walked away with his younger trade-in.

Razor Sharp said:

Major co-sign here.

If there's no intrigue, there's no fireworks. Problem is that we are socially conditioned to avoid tension, the single most useful tool for stimulating that wonderful imagination. This is why nice guys will always finish last - they fail to understand that what women want is us NOT giving them what they want (at least not right away)

Never heard of this Roissy fella, thanks for the tip bro

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This is why nice guys fail each and every time they verbalize they like a girl. That sound they hear immediately after is the sound of any attraction they had toward the guy running down the drain.

sharkybear said:

It's complicated

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Exactly! Other versions of leaving them hanging and being mysterious is Push/Pull. For example:

Neg/busty on her in some fun way and follow it up with "I'm kidding. Now I'm not. Yes I am. :shake head side to side mouthing "No I'm not" followed with a smile:

Then you have the juggling emotions game such as pissing them off mildly and then winning them back over. That shot to their emotions is super powerful and has on its own gotten me laid many times over the years.

Finally, simple phrases that have a simlar impact as "It complicated" are "That depends" and "Yes and no."

Bottom line: vague and ambiguous equals mysterious and intriging. The more you have them thinking about you the more invested they'll become. As AFC Adam says, "investment equals attraction".

backbreaker "i needed graphics, he needed steady income. We are both happy" is a great example for any kind of relationship with women. rollo tomassi you also have some great points.

backbreaker said:

marriage is the same way. I used to think alot like you as far as marriage then I met my fiancee. She is my master mind. not only is she as cute as a button, and an excellent mother, she wants what I want in life, and she makes me a better overall person. She is on my ass in the morning when I'm not at the gym, not becuase she wants to still be able to call her man hot (that's part too ) but she can tell from the times i talked about it in my life, just how much I hated being overweight and she refuses to let me go through that again.

When I tell her hey I'm going to be up all night working instead of pitching a ***** or trying to talk me out of it, she will make me some hot cocoa and a sandwich. She knows why I work the way I do.

We think so much a like, I have literary not had to plan out my own day in about a year now. i wake up and i have a basic ternary of what I need to do sitting on the kitchen table, broken down into 5 minute intervals. babe does not play any games lol. Her job is to make me as productive as possible.

We went to go look at a new car about 2 months ago. She won't ask for antyhing but i can tell she had been eyeing a certain car so one day we were out for ice cream with our son and i said **** it let's go look at it. We got in the car and you could just see her eyes light up. she test drove it. She even kept it overnight. I had pretty much decided to pull the trigger if they would do X and X. I sold cars and I knew what i was asking for was somewhat pushing it, somewhat, not out of the question but something they would have to really think about. We didn't need the car hell we have 3.

When the salesman said nope, she didn't blink one eye, she gave him the keys back and we walked out. I have enough money in my savings account to buy that car 20x over.. not once did she ask me to dip in my savings account.. money that she knows what I am saving for, so she can endoulge for something she wants. she knows what the end game is and in the end, she knows she will get her car, just not at that very moment.

As far as being covert with women i'm quiet by nature, I say as little as possible. The more she has to figure out the better.

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I am glad to hear that there are cute women out there that are like this. This sounds so much like my ex, who even to this day I still respect her. She was like this too. Totally supportive, reasonable, and won't be afraid to speak up when something is up. It was always "what do YOU like?" "what is YOUR choice?" The reason why I broke up with her was that she was getting overweight. It was killing me see her ballooned up, and I did all I could to help her lose weight, but it's just not happening.

Then I got together with this hot chick. Man, it's a living hell. Should've just made her an ONS. Sure the fvcks were great, but beyond that, jeez. It made me question if all hot chicks are like this.

i can sale a chasity ring to a hooker

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Backbreaker, I've noticed your posts lately have been sounding very mature. It's almost surprising coming from someone who is only 26.

Anyway, you've talked about your sales skills from time to time. Most good salesmen have a better than average ability to connect with people. I'm assuming this is the case with you (correct me if I'm wrong)? If so, I was wondering if you had any basic tips for connecting with people (making them feel like the most important person in the room, etc.)? And to what do you attribute your ability?

Thanks I appreciate the kind words. For the most part I don't take myself too seriously when I come here but I can put it together when I feel like it.


Man I've been through a LOT and I mean alot in my short life. School of hard knocks, bumps and bruises.

I've always had the ability to talk. I'm not stupid and I can put a few sentences together and sound intelligent so I have always had that going for me.

The thing hat really took me to the next level is learning when to talk and when to shut up and being patient. Abe Lincoln had a quote that if he had to chop down a cherry tree he would spend 7 hours sharping the knife and 1 hour chopping the tree down. I approach life the same way for the most part. I try to get inside of a clients head or a woman's head and figure out if I were them what would I want. Different people hold value to different things.

You can sale 2 clients the exact same site for instance, but you would have to approach them in two totally different ways becuase of their personality. If I am dealing with people my age.. perfect example next week we are going to start revamping http://www.ratemyband.com which is built in wordpress on a shoestring budget. They have a little money now and want the site down right. They are both my age and I can easily talk to them from a standpoint of hey I'm where you are trying to get.

I am not so much selling to them the site as much as I am selling myself rather they know it or not. I can tell dealing with hem that they are quite serious and I treat them like businessmen, not kids.

Then on the other hand we are building literary, like the EXACT same site lol

http://black17media.com/code/site11/page2.html

(I told you the guy was bad as hell)

But this guy is in his late 30's and has a PHd in something I forgot what and I am not going to get anywhere with the guy telling the guy I'm 13 years younger than him and I did not go to college oh hand me 10 grand. Actually I used some very advanced sales techniques to get this client. I was one of like 80 something people to bid on the job and when I responded he sent me some gerneric response that I knew he sent to everyone else. insead of saying thanks I told him we were no longer interested in the project and I meant it at the time, I wasn't. I spend hours, 2-3 hours responding to clients. I cherry pick jobs, I can becuase I know I will close about half of them, a little more. So when someone doesn't have the curity to at least tell me hey I apprciate it no that's not someone I'm interested in.


When he told me he apologized and that he was appreciative of my thorough response I told him that frankly I don't know if he is professional enough to deal with us. WE take what we do very seriously and quite frankly I don't think he does. I put him on the defensive. He wasn't concerned about my age.. I showed him our portfolio and I know form experience espically dealing with sites like his.. he wont' find any better. So I told him look you are looking at at least 8 grand to do something like this to do it right which he said he had no problem with... then when i had him on the defensive I started to close him. Once he answered the 8k question he was sold. he knew it and i knew it.


I am not exaggerating when I say I am one of the best salesman you will ever meet. I'm very very good at what I do. I've sold cars, computers, websites and all I have done is preparing me for what I am about to do next.



if I would have used the same bit with the 39 year old as i used with the 26 year old, i would have not got the client. if I would have went to the 26 year olds and told them that they were not professional enough, I would not have gotten them becuase I would have insulted them.


My point is I spend more time developing a game plan for each client then I do actually talking to them and I seriously mean that.

I have it setup now where I spend 4-5 hours a day in the morning working on clients than go to the track. it's a perfect setup for me. I need my web business not for the money, I don't need to work but to do what I plan on doing, I need to have a very strong development company at my beckon call which is the real end game. Developing our portfolio and that company is what I'm doing.


It's no different than women. half the post on this forum about hey I saw a woman at starbucks what do I say bam bam bam. Real seduction is drawing a woman to you not hoping you say the right combination of words.

Generally if I see a woman and I want her and I know I will see her again or I know where she works or know her routine, if i really want her more times than not I get what I want. Generally lol I flame out just like everyone else but I don't think near as much. I sit back and learn as much as I can about that person and try to get in their heads and figure them out from what I can tell about them. I'm not in a rush. it may take 2 days it may take 2 months.

Also alot of it is figuring out who your real targets are. Part of the reason I close so high is becuase I'm good and the other part is I know who I am wasting my time with, and who is a serious client.

It does not matter how smoking hot the chick is, if she is bad**** crazy there is nothing you can say or do that is going to stop her from being bat**** crazy.

I'm black lol, I don't care how smoking hot she is, if I see a chick walking around with a confederate flag on the back of her jacked up pickup truck lol, I might pass on that lmao.

It took me 2 weeks to approach my fiancee, not becuase I was scared, but becuase it took me that long to get an "in". And it was hard becuase a few times I caught her checking me out giving me the signals that she at the very least thought I was cute. But if you go forward without a gameplan you are just as ****ed as not approaching both will flame out. Not only that i had her wondering was I even interested.

sharkybear said:

I am glad to hear that there are cute women out there that are like this. This sounds so much like my ex, who even to this day I still respect her. She was like this too. Totally supportive, reasonable, and won't be afraid to speak up when something is up. It was always "what do YOU like?" "what is YOUR choice?" The reason why I broke up with her was that she was getting overweight. It was killing me see her ballooned up, and I did all I could to help her lose weight, but it's just not happening.

Then I got together with this hot chick. Man, it's a living hell. Should've just made her an ONS. Sure the fvcks were great, but beyond that, jeez. It made me question if all hot chicks are like this.

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god i hope the day doesn't come where I have to make this decision. I love the woman to death and part of the reason I do love her is she is extremely health conscious, moreso than me actually. Whiel I eat clean about 80% of the time i have no qualms in the leaat bit about killing a 6 pack of beer or taking our son to taco bell and chowing down my self. She on the other hand will not go out to eat anywhere if they do not have anything reasonably healthy on the menu. We have an exercise bike and a treadmill and she gets on one of them for an hour a day 6 days a week. before the baby I could bounce a quarter off her stomach. now it's not that tight but she has no problem whatsoever still waring a two piece.

I hope the day doesn't come that i am not attracted to her anymore becuase she doesn't work out or doesn't take care of herself. I dont' see that happening as it's just too ingrained in both us to take care of ourselves. but things happen and people do change.